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Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
Would have been interesting to see how the MCC would have been if Creighton and Bradley would have joined in 1985 like they were asked. It would helped give some more punch to a strong city private school league in the Midwest.
09-11-2017 02:33 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
Was it really too late for the Super Metro when Florida St and South Carolina bailed for better opportunities? You could do Super Metro with 14:

North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple, Rutgers, WVU, VT
South: Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, USM, Tulane, ECU, Miami

I suppose for the Big East schools it was a much better deal--revenue split 8 ways instead of 14 and for the Big East basketball schools it only meant adding Miami as a full member right away.
09-11-2017 08:15 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-11-2017 08:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Was it really too late for the Super Metro when Florida St and South Carolina bailed for better opportunities? You could do Super Metro with 14:

North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple, Rutgers, WVU, VT
South: Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, USM, Tulane, ECU, Miami

I suppose for the Big East schools it was a much better deal--revenue split 8 ways instead of 14 and for the Big East basketball schools it only meant adding Miami as a full member right away.

I agree muskie. After FSU and S Carolina were out of the picture the Big East was (begrudgingly) aware of how important football would be moving forward and realized it they acted now they could be in control
09-11-2017 09:15 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then
09-11-2017 09:30 PM
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Nittany_Bearcat Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-11-2017 02:33 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Would have been interesting to see how the MCC would have been if Creighton and Bradley would have joined in 1985 like they were asked. It would helped give some more punch to a strong city private school league in the Midwest.

Would have been very interesting. But the MCC was still a single-bid conference then (1st at-large invite in 1989). The MVC was regularly getting 2 and 3 teams. The hey-day of Tulsa, Wichita State and Bradley, with Illinois State also very good.
09-11-2017 09:53 PM
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Thegoldstandard Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 10:17 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 07:23 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Cardinal Jim--

I think the answer to your question, "why did the Metro not play football?", is that the members involved, while at the same level in basketball, were playing at much different levels in football. The better football schools like Florida St and South Carolina did not want to be anchored down and forced to play annual games against Tulane and USM. What kept them in the Metro for basketball was giving them the freedom to schedule as they pleased in football.

When it became apparent that the key to television money was conference membership you saw most of the major independents (Notre Dame excluded) rush to join conferences--Penn St, Florida St, South Carolina, the Big East schools. This all but forced the midmajor football programs to do the same leading to C-USA, a Sunbelt/Big West alliance, and eventually SBC football.

Were all the Metro members at the same level in basketball? Louisville, Memphis, and Cincy were much better program than FSU, S Carolina, and Va Tech and way better than Tulane and USM
Before huggins Cincy was probably the worst program in the league. There was a time where the toughest place to play was at Va Tech. I remember them sweeping memphis and louisville in the same year. They had Steph Curry's dad during that time.
Tulane had some excellent teams back then. Louisville won the natty in 86 and Southern Miss followed in 87 with a nit title. It was a great league
09-12-2017 12:17 AM
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Thegoldstandard Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 09:16 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 08:19 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Well two things are of certain facts I assure you. 1 being FSU and Coach Bobby Bowden didn't Like the idea of giving up his national schedule to play the likes of Louisville, and Cincinnati etc. 2 Louisville and Denny Crum didn't want to lose out on all the money they had made in credits that were to be reimbursed for once they left that money goes away. So those two reason there are fact and you can ask anyone. I do think if the Metro could have become a FB conference with the like of everyone that was mentioned along with Penn State they would be right up there with the SEC and BigTen in making money etc.

I agree with those two points, as well. FSU and Louisville were unhappy with various revenue aspects, for different reasons, and the Super Metro never became a reality, and schools went several different directions.
One big sticking point was that scheduling was different back then. OOC games were scattered thru the entire season. Louisville had the option of holding saturday dates for ooc games if they could get a tv matchup. They also didnt share any of that revenue.
09-12-2017 12:23 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-11-2017 08:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Was it really too late for the Super Metro when Florida St and South Carolina bailed for better opportunities? You could do Super Metro with 14:

North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple, Rutgers, WVU, VT
South: Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, USM, Tulane, ECU, Miami

I suppose for the Big East schools it was a much better deal--revenue split 8 ways instead of 14 and for the Big East basketball schools it only meant adding Miami as a full member right away.

I think it could have happened at 14 because the Big East at least publicly seemed to only add football because there were no other options at the time for the football members.
09-12-2017 08:09 AM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-11-2017 09:53 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 02:33 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Would have been interesting to see how the MCC would have been if Creighton and Bradley would have joined in 1985 like they were asked. It would helped give some more punch to a strong city private school league in the Midwest.

Would have been very interesting. But the MCC was still a single-bid conference then (1st at-large invite in 1989). The MVC was regularly getting 2 and 3 teams. The hey-day of Tulsa, Wichita State and Bradley, with Illinois State also very good.

MCC was also adding Marquette and Dayton at that time as well. With eyes on DePaul and Notre Dame. That's the big what if in my mind. Get all of the big Midwestern private colleges in one conference, wonder how it would have been.
09-12-2017 10:16 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 12:17 AM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 10:17 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 07:23 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Cardinal Jim--

I think the answer to your question, "why did the Metro not play football?", is that the members involved, while at the same level in basketball, were playing at much different levels in football. The better football schools like Florida St and South Carolina did not want to be anchored down and forced to play annual games against Tulane and USM. What kept them in the Metro for basketball was giving them the freedom to schedule as they pleased in football.

When it became apparent that the key to television money was conference membership you saw most of the major independents (Notre Dame excluded) rush to join conferences--Penn St, Florida St, South Carolina, the Big East schools. This all but forced the midmajor football programs to do the same leading to C-USA, a Sunbelt/Big West alliance, and eventually SBC football.

Were all the Metro members at the same level in basketball? Louisville, Memphis, and Cincy were much better program than FSU, S Carolina, and Va Tech and way better than Tulane and USM
Before huggins Cincy was probably the worst program in the league. There was a time where the toughest place to play was at Va Tech. I remember them sweeping memphis and louisville in the same year. They had Steph Curry's dad during that time.
Tulane had some excellent teams back then. Louisville won the natty in 86 and Southern Miss followed in 87 with a nit title. It was a great league

Good info

Thanks!!
09-12-2017 12:04 PM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-11-2017 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then

Back in 91, the BE bball schools agreed to add the football schools, but wanted another of their own. Evidently, the deal was that the bball school would agree to adding football to the conference, and then vote to add the slate of the football schools. Thereafter, there would be a vote to consider the addition of one, non-football school. I think it was to equalize the numbers of full time members, 7 to 7. The MU AD told me that MU was that non-football school. At the last minute, SJU flip flopped after the football schools were admitted and voted against adding any further members. So, there were not enough votes to add the non-football school. Take it for what its worth, but the story came directly from the MU AD.[/align]
09-12-2017 12:58 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 12:58 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then

Back in 91, the BE bball schools agreed to add the football schools, but wanted another of their own. Evidently, the deal was that the bball school would agree to adding football to the conference, and then vote to add the slate of the football schools. Thereafter, there would be a vote to consider the addition of one, non-football school. I think it was to equalize the numbers of full time members, 7 to 7. The MU AD told me that MU was that non-football school. At the last minute, SJU flip flopped after the football schools were admitted and voted against adding any further members. So, there were not enough votes to add the non-football school. Take it for what its worth, but the story came directly from the MU AD.[/align]

I have my doubts on this theory. I don't doubt it was said, just how close it was to actually happening. Marquette, at this time, was in bad shape basketball-wise. We just got rid of Bob Dukiet, who not only didn't make the tournament in his entire tenure, but the program hadn't made the tournament since 1983. We were also right at the start of the Kevin O'Neill era, who had just finished 11-18 in the 90-91 season. If the Big East wanted to add another non-football member, DePaul would have been the better choice. They had a better market and a better basketball program at this time, including a successful start to the Joey Meyer era (who was one of the best recruiters in the Midwest at this time).

If this was in 93-94, right after we went to the Sweet 16, I think it would hold more water. Heck, we finally got an invitation to the Big East after our Final Four run with Crean and Wade in 2003.
09-12-2017 01:53 PM
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ODU1986 Offline
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Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
Old Sunbelt was a great league. I remember when Gene Bartow and the UAB Blazers came to the Norfolk Scope. A damn riot broke out when one of the UAB coaches starting throwing the bench chairs into the stands!


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(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 03:53 PM by ODU1986.)
09-12-2017 03:53 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 12:58 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then

Back in 91, the BE bball schools agreed to add the football schools, but wanted another of their own. Evidently, the deal was that the bball school would agree to adding football to the conference, and then vote to add the slate of the football schools. Thereafter, there would be a vote to consider the addition of one, non-football school. I think it was to equalize the numbers of full time members, 7 to 7. The MU AD told me that MU was that non-football school. At the last minute, SJU flip flopped after the football schools were admitted and voted against adding any further members. So, there were not enough votes to add the non-football school. Take it for what its worth, but the story came directly from the MU AD.[/align]

interesting never heard that. in 91 however I think the fb schools were fb only . it was around 95 that WVU and Rutgers were offered full membership. VaTech was not. About same time ND also came on board
09-12-2017 07:37 PM
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megadrone Offline
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RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 07:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 12:58 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then

Back in 91, the BE bball schools agreed to add the football schools, but wanted another of their own. Evidently, the deal was that the bball school would agree to adding football to the conference, and then vote to add the slate of the football schools. Thereafter, there would be a vote to consider the addition of one, non-football school. I think it was to equalize the numbers of full time members, 7 to 7. The MU AD told me that MU was that non-football school. At the last minute, SJU flip flopped after the football schools were admitted and voted against adding any further members. So, there were not enough votes to add the non-football school. Take it for what its worth, but the story came directly from the MU AD.[/align]

interesting never heard that. in 91 however I think the fb schools were fb only . it was around 95 that WVU and Rutgers were offered full membership. VaTech was not. About same time ND also came on board

Only Miami was given membership to the Big East in the 1990/91 timeframe. The football conference at first was a separate entity that all 8 schools were members of.
09-12-2017 07:49 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 07:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 12:58 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then

Back in 91, the BE bball schools agreed to add the football schools, but wanted another of their own. Evidently, the deal was that the bball school would agree to adding football to the conference, and then vote to add the slate of the football schools. Thereafter, there would be a vote to consider the addition of one, non-football school. I think it was to equalize the numbers of full time members, 7 to 7. The MU AD told me that MU was that non-football school. At the last minute, SJU flip flopped after the football schools were admitted and voted against adding any further members. So, there were not enough votes to add the non-football school. Take it for what its worth, but the story came directly from the MU AD.[/align]

interesting never heard that. in 91 however I think the fb schools were fb only . it was around 95 that WVU and Rutgers were offered full membership. VaTech was not. About same time ND also came on board

Why did the Big East make Va Tech wait 5 years after WVU and Rutgers got full invites and Notre Dame came on board?
09-12-2017 07:57 PM
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RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 07:57 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 07:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 12:58 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then

Back in 91, the BE bball schools agreed to add the football schools, but wanted another of their own. Evidently, the deal was that the bball school would agree to adding football to the conference, and then vote to add the slate of the football schools. Thereafter, there would be a vote to consider the addition of one, non-football school. I think it was to equalize the numbers of full time members, 7 to 7. The MU AD told me that MU was that non-football school. At the last minute, SJU flip flopped after the football schools were admitted and voted against adding any further members. So, there were not enough votes to add the non-football school. Take it for what its worth, but the story came directly from the MU AD.[/align]

interesting never heard that. in 91 however I think the fb schools were fb only . it was around 95 that WVU and Rutgers were offered full membership. VaTech was not. About same time ND also came on board

Why did the Big East make Va Tech wait 5 years after WVU and Rutgers got full invites and Notre Dame came on board?

I'd guess the basketball schools weren't enthralled with adding a rural Southern school with less-than-sterling basketball — outside of an NIT title in 1995 and second-round NCAA appearance in 1996, the Hokies were largely mediocre from the mid-1980s to 1999, when the Big East invited them for all sports.
09-12-2017 08:21 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 03:53 PM)ODU1986 Wrote:  Old Sunbelt was a great league. I remember when Gene Bartow and the UAB Blazers came to the Norfolk Scope. A damn riot broke out when one of the UAB coaches starting throwing the bench chairs into the stands!


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Poor guy--Bobby Knight throws a chair and steals all of the chair tossing attention away.
09-12-2017 09:44 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-12-2017 07:57 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 07:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 12:58 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i want to hear more about Marquette/St johns incident in 91! I never heard Marquette was in play back then

Back in 91, the BE bball schools agreed to add the football schools, but wanted another of their own. Evidently, the deal was that the bball school would agree to adding football to the conference, and then vote to add the slate of the football schools. Thereafter, there would be a vote to consider the addition of one, non-football school. I think it was to equalize the numbers of full time members, 7 to 7. The MU AD told me that MU was that non-football school. At the last minute, SJU flip flopped after the football schools were admitted and voted against adding any further members. So, there were not enough votes to add the non-football school. Take it for what its worth, but the story came directly from the MU AD.[/align]

interesting never heard that. in 91 however I think the fb schools were fb only . it was around 95 that WVU and Rutgers were offered full membership. VaTech was not. About same time ND also came on board

Why did the Big East make Va Tech wait 5 years after WVU and Rutgers got full invites and Notre Dame came on board?

Snobbery. VT wasn't their type of school and I think they were viewed as rural upstarts. I wonder if VT had been treated better by the Big East if they would have been so anxious to pull political strings to grab Syracuse's ACC invite and jump ship?
09-12-2017 09:48 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
If you're going to invite WVU why not do Va Tech as well for a travel partner and an even 14
09-13-2017 08:07 AM
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