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OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
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JMU_71 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 12:51 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:43 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:35 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  Well, it's not just Liberty benefiting from massive amounts of government backed student loans. Every school out there that takes federal subsidizes through the student loan program are benefiting. Why do you think tuition rates have gone up exponentially over the last twenty years? The more something gets subsidize the higher its costs.

Slight difference is the scale of million(s) vs thousands, and the way private/non-profit play into it. With no oversight or accountability the potential for that kind of money to taint higher education is kind of scary. Especially in a case where the organization is mandated to evangelize.

We're actually talking about almost $1 Billion (800M+) in annual federal subsidies here at Liberty for 100,000 online students.

I'm ok with federal money making college more affordable for those that need it. I'm also ok to an extent with schools offering online degrees. But when you combine the two at this magnitude it raises a lot of questions about the ethics of online education.

Minimally, it seems like there should be a Cox bill at the federal level limiting how much federal funding for online education can be spent on auxiliary expenses like buildings and sports. Cross-subsiding to this extent should be restricted. They are taking federal money for online degree programs and using it in ways that does not benefit those students.

I think you are missing the point of my post... federal involvement doesn't make it more affordable. Since the feds started subsidizing college by taking over the student loan industry, the cost of college has sky-rocketed while wages have remained stagnant. More and more people are coming out of college with more and more debt, I don't see how that makes it more affordable.
09-08-2017 02:27 PM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 02:27 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:51 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:43 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:35 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  Well, it's not just Liberty benefiting from massive amounts of government backed student loans. Every school out there that takes federal subsidizes through the student loan program are benefiting. Why do you think tuition rates have gone up exponentially over the last twenty years? The more something gets subsidize the higher its costs.

Slight difference is the scale of million(s) vs thousands, and the way private/non-profit play into it. With no oversight or accountability the potential for that kind of money to taint higher education is kind of scary. Especially in a case where the organization is mandated to evangelize.

We're actually talking about almost $1 Billion (800M+) in annual federal subsidies here at Liberty for 100,000 online students.

I'm ok with federal money making college more affordable for those that need it. I'm also ok to an extent with schools offering online degrees. But when you combine the two at this magnitude it raises a lot of questions about the ethics of online education.

Minimally, it seems like there should be a Cox bill at the federal level limiting how much federal funding for online education can be spent on auxiliary expenses like buildings and sports. Cross-subsiding to this extent should be restricted. They are taking federal money for online degree programs and using it in ways that does not benefit those students.

I think you are missing the point of my post... federal involvement doesn't make it more affordable. Since the feds started subsidizing college by taking over the student loan industry, the cost of college has sky-rocketed while wages have remained stagnant. More and more people are coming out of college with more and more debt, I don't see how that makes it more affordable.

Was replying more to 2Buck, though I do understand the original thought. Don't agree fully, as I think the pricing would still escalate due to student loans from 3rd parties such as banks (just like credit card debt). On the one hand, yes, I think the cost of college is getting out of hand, and federal money may contribute to that. On the other, I've known folks who couldn't have succeeded without that support. I believe it does actually open doors to some people who need it.

What Liberty is doing looks downright scummy though. They are effectively taking these subsidies, magnifying them thru their online paper mill, and then funneling that money into sports and other infrastructure unrelated to the online program.
09-08-2017 03:49 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 02:27 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:51 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:43 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:35 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  Well, it's not just Liberty benefiting from massive amounts of government backed student loans. Every school out there that takes federal subsidizes through the student loan program are benefiting. Why do you think tuition rates have gone up exponentially over the last twenty years? The more something gets subsidize the higher its costs.

Slight difference is the scale of million(s) vs thousands, and the way private/non-profit play into it. With no oversight or accountability the potential for that kind of money to taint higher education is kind of scary. Especially in a case where the organization is mandated to evangelize.

We're actually talking about almost $1 Billion (800M+) in annual federal subsidies here at Liberty for 100,000 online students.

I'm ok with federal money making college more affordable for those that need it. I'm also ok to an extent with schools offering online degrees. But when you combine the two at this magnitude it raises a lot of questions about the ethics of online education.

Minimally, it seems like there should be a Cox bill at the federal level limiting how much federal funding for online education can be spent on auxiliary expenses like buildings and sports. Cross-subsiding to this extent should be restricted. They are taking federal money for online degree programs and using it in ways that does not benefit those students.

I think you are missing the point of my post... federal involvement doesn't make it more affordable. Since the feds started subsidizing college by taking over the student loan industry, the cost of college has sky-rocketed while wages have remained stagnant. More and more people are coming out of college with more and more debt, I don't see how that makes it more affordable.

It's the exact same principle in which the ACA was established.
09-08-2017 03:49 PM
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doubleduke2016 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
You want even more bad news? I recently spoke to a professor in the program I was a part of who told me that she would like JMU greatly increase their online degree options to which I replied "we just want to be careful we don't become Liberty or Phoenix" and she said "I think Phoenix is a great model and would love for us to get there. There are so many benefits to having students get their degree from their home and that is the future, we need to get involved in that as soon as we can or we will miss that opportunity." So we may not want to bash it if we are becoming it along with many other schools.
09-08-2017 03:59 PM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 03:59 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  You want even more bad news? I recently spoke to a professor in the program I was a part of who told me that she would like JMU greatly increase their online degree options to which I replied "we just want to be careful we don't become Liberty or Phoenix" and she said "I think Phoenix is a great model and would love for us to get there. There are so many benefits to having students get their degree from their home and that is the future, we need to get involved in that as soon as we can or we will miss that opportunity." So we may not want to bash it if we are becoming it along with many other schools.

Certainly hope we do not end up like Liberty or Phoenix. I would have felt much better if the professor was looking to emulate schools like Stanford, MIT, or even UVA. Being the next Phoenix or Liberty may create financial success for the school, but erodes the value of the degree. There is a balancing act here. To do it right, they need to maintain academic integrity in online programs, have high standards, and not simply chase quick money.
09-08-2017 04:11 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 03:59 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  You want even more bad news? I recently spoke to a professor in the program I was a part of who told me that she would like JMU greatly increase their online degree options to which I replied "we just want to be careful we don't become Liberty or Phoenix" and she said "I think Phoenix is a great model and would love for us to get there. There are so many benefits to having students get their degree from their home and that is the future, we need to get involved in that as soon as we can or we will miss that opportunity." So we may not want to bash it if we are becoming it along with many other schools.

I graduated form JMU in the late 90s (traditional campus). I just finished a graduate program in Dec 2016, not at JMU but another great school. The program was 90% traditional on campus but there was an online aspect to the program. Technology has changed the classroom forever for the good.

Schools need to define "online." Online can mean anything, it can be and often is a rigorous program at a great school.......or not.
09-08-2017 04:17 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 03:59 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  You want even more bad news? I recently spoke to a professor in the program I was a part of who told me that she would like JMU greatly increase their online degree options to which I replied "we just want to be careful we don't become Liberty or Phoenix" and she said "I think Phoenix is a great model and would love for us to get there. There are so many benefits to having students get their degree from their home and that is the future, we need to get involved in that as soon as we can or we will miss that opportunity." So we may not want to bash it if we are becoming it along with many other schools.

I have little issue with a student being able to take an online class or two, but somehow I think it needs to be tied to a full time student taking at least 12 hours per semester, mush like my daughter is doing in HS. She has four normal classes, as in a classroom with a teacher, and two online classes History and French.
09-08-2017 04:18 PM
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Dukie95 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
Well, MOOCS are the in-thing now. Many schools are offering online programs often FOR FREE. You can't get a degree this way, but you can improve yourself, and it can raise the profile of the university. These are the schools that are our model, not for profit institutions.

https://library.educause.edu/topics/teac...ourse-mooc
09-08-2017 04:18 PM
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Madison 91 Forever Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 12:30 PM)2Buck Wrote:  it's just another means of evangelizing on a national scale.

Call me cynical, but I'm not altogether entirely content that it's all about the Gospel.
09-08-2017 04:40 PM
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Madison 91 Forever Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 03:59 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  You want even more bad news? I recently spoke to a professor in the program I was a part of who told me that she would like JMU greatly increase their online degree options to which I replied "we just want to be careful we don't become Liberty or Phoenix" and she said "I think Phoenix is a great model and would love for us to get there. There are so many benefits to having students get their degree from their home and that is the future, we need to get involved in that as soon as we can or we will miss that opportunity." So we may not want to bash it if we are becoming it along with many other schools.

BARF. How many of us know Phoenix graduates with useless degrees but saddled in debt?
09-08-2017 04:43 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #31
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 03:59 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  You want even more bad news? I recently spoke to a professor in the program I was a part of who told me that she would like JMU greatly increase their online degree options to which I replied "we just want to be careful we don't become Liberty or Phoenix" and she said "I think Phoenix is a great model and would love for us to get there. There are so many benefits to having students get their degree from their home and that is the future, we need to get involved in that as soon as we can or we will miss that opportunity." So we may not want to bash it if we are becoming it along with many other schools.

President (or Chancellor, whatever it is) at UVA got into hot water about a decade+ ago because UVA wasn't moving to the "distance learning" model fast enough.

The Va Comm Coll system has been offering ELI, Extended Learning Institute, courses for more than 30 years.

I know cause I took a couple Communications courses from Ocean City Md. that long ago.

Lot of sneering down noses and high and mighty in this thread... 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 05:29 PM by JMUDunk.)
09-08-2017 05:23 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #32
OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 08:52 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  So in the last ~7 years, Liberty has spent $200M on facilities, another $350M in annual costs (estimating $50M a year excluding the crazy game payouts), another $50M earmarked to stadium expansion and $25M to build out the football schedule (assuming Tech, UVA, BYU all required double the 1.5M that ODU agreed too). I'm guessing the wrote a check to NCAA to get the waiver, probably near the $25M they were willing to pay CUSA right? Soooo over a 10 year period, Liberty spend $1 BILLION for athletics?

I'm sure falwell had his team of lawyers threaten the NCAA with litigation too if he didn't get his way with the fbs waiver.
09-08-2017 05:33 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #33
OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 08:58 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:52 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  So in the last ~7 years, Liberty has spent $200M on facilities, another $350M in annual costs (estimating $50M a year excluding the crazy game payouts), another $50M earmarked to stadium expansion and $25M to build out the football schedule (assuming Tech, UVA, BYU all required double the 1.5M that ODU agreed too). I'm guessing the wrote a check to NCAA to get the waiver, probably near the $25M they were willing to pay CUSA right? Soooo over a 10 year period, Liberty spend $1 BILLION for athletics?

Pretty easy to do when you run a for profit online school under the wing of a non profit university. Even easier to do when the majority of online tuition comes on the back of federally backed programs.

I keep wondering how someone in the federal government hasn't looked into their tax status. This should be illegal.

"Most of the university’s dramatic growth has come through distance education, and its online students now make up most of Liberty’s student body. Three-quarters of undergraduates and 97 percent of graduate students at Liberty study exclusively through distance education, according the American Federation of Teachers.

But more astounding than the growth in students is the growth in federal aid. Data from the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia shows that federal aid has grown five times faster than enrollment.

In the late 1990s, Liberty students received less than $20 million in aid. Students now receive over $800 million dollars a year in federal aid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts...be6f9d8dcc

With Betsy DeVos at the helm, she's personally looking out for the libertys of the world. Falwell will make sure they attack every unfavorable education regulation that hurts his bottom line in any way.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 05:36 PM by Potomac.)
09-08-2017 05:36 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #34
OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 10:12 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  what happens to LU when their privileged status is taken away by the gov't?

Yeah that's not happening until at least January 2021... the government is protecting them at the moment.
09-08-2017 05:39 PM
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olderduke Offline
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RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 05:36 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:58 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:52 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  So in the last ~7 years, Liberty has spent $200M on facilities, another $350M in annual costs (estimating $50M a year excluding the crazy game payouts), another $50M earmarked to stadium expansion and $25M to build out the football schedule (assuming Tech, UVA, BYU all required double the 1.5M that ODU agreed too). I'm guessing the wrote a check to NCAA to get the waiver, probably near the $25M they were willing to pay CUSA right? Soooo over a 10 year period, Liberty spend $1 BILLION for athletics?

Pretty easy to do when you run a for profit online school under the wing of a non profit university. Even easier to do when the majority of online tuition comes on the back of federally backed programs.

I keep wondering how someone in the federal government hasn't looked into their tax status. This should be illegal.

"Most of the university’s dramatic growth has come through distance education, and its online students now make up most of Liberty’s student body. Three-quarters of undergraduates and 97 percent of graduate students at Liberty study exclusively through distance education, according the American Federation of Teachers.

But more astounding than the growth in students is the growth in federal aid. Data from the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia shows that federal aid has grown five times faster than enrollment.

In the late 1990s, Liberty students received less than $20 million in aid. Students now receive over $800 million dollars a year in federal aid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts...be6f9d8dcc

With Betsy DeVos at the helm, she's personally looking out for the libertys of the world. Falwell will make sure they attack every unfavorable education regulation that hurts his bottom line in any way.
Ok, so when the libs get offended on this site by politics, they all come out begging for it to be shut down or moved. With this last post, it is now time for the monitors to do the same with this one.

Sent from my SM-G900V using CSNbbs mobile app
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 05:46 PM by olderduke.)
09-08-2017 05:41 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #36
OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 05:41 PM)olderduke Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:36 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:58 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:52 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  So in the last ~7 years, Liberty has spent $200M on facilities, another $350M in annual costs (estimating $50M a year excluding the crazy game payouts), another $50M earmarked to stadium expansion and $25M to build out the football schedule (assuming Tech, UVA, BYU all required double the 1.5M that ODU agreed too). I'm guessing the wrote a check to NCAA to get the waiver, probably near the $25M they were willing to pay CUSA right? Soooo over a 10 year period, Liberty spend $1 BILLION for athletics?

Pretty easy to do when you run a for profit online school under the wing of a non profit university. Even easier to do when the majority of online tuition comes on the back of federally backed programs.

I keep wondering how someone in the federal government hasn't looked into their tax status. This should be illegal.

"Most of the university’s dramatic growth has come through distance education, and its online students now make up most of Liberty’s student body. Three-quarters of undergraduates and 97 percent of graduate students at Liberty study exclusively through distance education, according the American Federation of Teachers.

But more astounding than the growth in students is the growth in federal aid. Data from the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia shows that federal aid has grown five times faster than enrollment.

In the late 1990s, Liberty students received less than $20 million in aid. Students now receive over $800 million dollars a year in federal aid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts...be6f9d8dcc

With Betsy DeVos at the helm, she's personally looking out for the libertys of the world. Falwell will make sure they attack every unfavorable education regulation that hurts his bottom line in any way.
Ok, so when the libs get offended on this site by politics, they all come out begging for it to be shut down or moved. With this last post, it is now time for the monitors to do the same with this one.

Sent from my SM-G900V using CSNbbs mobile app

It's related to the discussion, which has been very good so far. Someone else mentioned trump earlier and you didn't seem to get upset.
It's the department of education and very much relevant to the discussion. Just because she happens to be a long standing GOP donor doesn't make her any less unworthy of mentioning and Falwell and liberty are VERY involved with the current administration and DOE.
09-08-2017 05:57 PM
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olderduke Offline
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Post: #37
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 05:57 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:41 PM)olderduke Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:36 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:58 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:52 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  So in the last ~7 years, Liberty has spent $200M on facilities, another $350M in annual costs (estimating $50M a year excluding the crazy game payouts), another $50M earmarked to stadium expansion and $25M to build out the football schedule (assuming Tech, UVA, BYU all required double the 1.5M that ODU agreed too). I'm guessing the wrote a check to NCAA to get the waiver, probably near the $25M they were willing to pay CUSA right? Soooo over a 10 year period, Liberty spend $1 BILLION for athletics?

Pretty easy to do when you run a for profit online school under the wing of a non profit university. Even easier to do when the majority of online tuition comes on the back of federally backed programs.

I keep wondering how someone in the federal government hasn't looked into their tax status. This should be illegal.

"Most of the university’s dramatic growth has come through distance education, and its online students now make up most of Liberty’s student body. Three-quarters of undergraduates and 97 percent of graduate students at Liberty study exclusively through distance education, according the American Federation of Teachers.

But more astounding than the growth in students is the growth in federal aid. Data from the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia shows that federal aid has grown five times faster than enrollment.

In the late 1990s, Liberty students received less than $20 million in aid. Students now receive over $800 million dollars a year in federal aid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts...be6f9d8dcc

With Betsy DeVos at the helm, she's personally looking out for the libertys of the world. Falwell will make sure they attack every unfavorable education regulation that hurts his bottom line in any way.
Ok, so when the libs get offended on this site by politics, they all come out begging for it to be shut down or moved. With this last post, it is now time for the monitors to do the same with this one.

Sent from my SM-G900V using CSNbbs mobile app

It's related to the discussion, which has been very good so far. Someone else mentioned trump earlier and you didn't seem to get upset.
It's the department of education and very much relevant to the discussion. Just because she happens to be a long standing GOP donor doesn't make her any less unworthy of mentioning and Falwell and liberty are VERY involved with the current administration and DOE.
So, let's bring back the monuments discussion from the O/T board. Comments in that thread were relevant to that discussion as well.

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09-08-2017 06:02 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #38
OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 06:02 PM)olderduke Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:57 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:41 PM)olderduke Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:36 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 08:58 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Pretty easy to do when you run a for profit online school under the wing of a non profit university. Even easier to do when the majority of online tuition comes on the back of federally backed programs.

I keep wondering how someone in the federal government hasn't looked into their tax status. This should be illegal.

"Most of the university’s dramatic growth has come through distance education, and its online students now make up most of Liberty’s student body. Three-quarters of undergraduates and 97 percent of graduate students at Liberty study exclusively through distance education, according the American Federation of Teachers.

But more astounding than the growth in students is the growth in federal aid. Data from the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia shows that federal aid has grown five times faster than enrollment.

In the late 1990s, Liberty students received less than $20 million in aid. Students now receive over $800 million dollars a year in federal aid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts...be6f9d8dcc

With Betsy DeVos at the helm, she's personally looking out for the libertys of the world. Falwell will make sure they attack every unfavorable education regulation that hurts his bottom line in any way.
Ok, so when the libs get offended on this site by politics, they all come out begging for it to be shut down or moved. With this last post, it is now time for the monitors to do the same with this one.

Sent from my SM-G900V using CSNbbs mobile app

It's related to the discussion, which has been very good so far. Someone else mentioned trump earlier and you didn't seem to get upset.
It's the department of education and very much relevant to the discussion. Just because she happens to be a long standing GOP donor doesn't make her any less unworthy of mentioning and Falwell and liberty are VERY involved with the current administration and DOE.
So, let's bring back the monuments discussion from the O/T board. Comments in that thread were relevant to that discussion as well.

Sent from my SM-G900V using CSNbbs mobile app

Can we agree that liberty sucks and American tax payer money is contributing to such excessive non-academic spending and that is something that should be controlled? I think many posters just brought up some good points all around.
09-08-2017 06:21 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #39
RE: OT - Liberty offered CUSA $24 million for an invite
(09-08-2017 06:21 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 06:02 PM)olderduke Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:57 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:41 PM)olderduke Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 05:36 PM)Potomac Wrote:  With Betsy DeVos at the helm, she's personally looking out for the libertys of the world. Falwell will make sure they attack every unfavorable education regulation that hurts his bottom line in any way.
Ok, so when the libs get offended on this site by politics, they all come out begging for it to be shut down or moved. With this last post, it is now time for the monitors to do the same with this one.

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It's related to the discussion, which has been very good so far. Someone else mentioned trump earlier and you didn't seem to get upset.
It's the department of education and very much relevant to the discussion. Just because she happens to be a long standing GOP donor doesn't make her any less unworthy of mentioning and Falwell and liberty are VERY involved with the current administration and DOE.
So, let's bring back the monuments discussion from the O/T board. Comments in that thread were relevant to that discussion as well.

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Can we agree that liberty sucks and American tax payer money is contributing to such excessive non-academic spending and that is something that should be controlled? I think many posters just brought up some good points all around.

Saying Liberty $ucks might be over the top unless you are referencing a sports team where many commonly use the phrase. Liberty seems to be playing by the rules, it's the government regulations that seem to $uck. I will continue to say that I have no issue competing against them in any sport. There are a lot more devious ways to take people's money than what LU is doing. A degree from LU does carry some weight where Phoenix is practically a waste of cash. Though, even there, I'm sure what is taught is probably okay it's the degree itself which commands little respect.
09-09-2017 02:10 AM
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