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ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 12:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:51 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 07:15 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it was a huge mistake.

It's quite obvious it was out of fear of Liberty very quickly overshadowing them.

At the end of the day, they don't want to be associated with a school whose enrollment is 85% online. Same reason that Grand Canyon will struggle to find a real conference.

Liberty might end up overshadowing them in football, but this decision was not a football decision.

I've said the same thing about having concern over the online enrollment figures.

The only thing is that as a whole the institution is roughly on par with those in CUSA.

Academically??? I'm honestly insulted. It's a shiny diploma mill.

That's an unfair characterization of Liberty.

I love it when folks say diploma mill over and over again on this forum. It really shows they have no idea how the US education system works. Below is the link and quote on what a diploma mill is according to the USDOE. Which is the authority on all things edu. Not random posters using the term incorrectly.

What is a diploma mill?

The Higher Education Opportunity Act defines a diploma mill as follows:

DIPLOMA MILL- The term `diploma mill' means an entity that--
(A)(i) offers, for a fee, degrees, diplomas, or certificates, that may be used to represent to the general public that the individual possessing such a degree, diploma, or certificate has completed a program of postsecondary education or training; and (ii) requires such individual to complete little or no education or coursework to obtain such degree, diploma, or certificate; and
(B) lacks accreditation by an accrediting agency or association that is recognized as an accrediting agency or association of institutions of higher education (as such term is defined in section 102) by--
(i) the Secretary pursuant to subpart 2 of part H of title IV; or (ii) a Federal agency, State government, or other organization or association that recognizes accrediting agencies or associations.

The dictionary defines a diploma mill as:

An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. - Webster's Third New International Dictionary


https://www2.ed.gov/students/prep/colleg...mills.html
09-08-2017 01:01 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #42
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 12:42 PM)blazr Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 07:15 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it was a huge mistake.

It's quite obvious it was out of fear of Liberty very quickly overshadowing them.

At the end of the day, they don't want to be associated with a school whose enrollment is 85% online. Same reason that Grand Canyon will struggle to find a real conference.

Liberty might end up overshadowing them in football, but this decision was not a football decision.


I've said the same thing about having concern over the online enrollment figures.

The only thing is that as a whole the institution is roughly on par with those in CUSA.

How do you figure? It's a private, religious school and not located in or near a major metro hub. All but Rice are public universities and Marshall is the only school remote enough that it takes some effort to travel to (and Marshall has a built-in fan base so it balances that out). Every CUSA school has a vast majority of undergrads located on or near campus - the ones who were commuter schools have transitioned to more traditional demographics with active campuses. NOT THAT THEY WOULD JOIN NOW (don't want to derail the thread) but CUSA has passed on Troy, South Alabama, Ark St, Appy St, and Georgia Southern in past realignments for reasons other than sports.


Arkansas State could count double for Little Rock and Jonesboro since both cities are close by by not far.
South Alabama fits in with C-USA because Mobile is a large town that fits into the rest of C-USA.
As it is, I do not think C_USA wants to make the same mistake like they did with the last grab for expansion that cost them a bigger tv contract. They need the best schools on the field to be in the conference.
09-08-2017 01:04 PM
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blazr Away
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Post: #43
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 01:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Arkansas State could count double for Little Rock and Jonesboro since both cities are close by by not far.
South Alabama fits in with C-USA because Mobile is a large town that fits into the rest of C-USA.
As it is, I do not think C_USA wants to make the same mistake like they did with the last grab for expansion that cost them a bigger tv contract. They need the best schools on the field to be in the conference.

I just said they skipped over them in the past. Again, I'm not going to argue over those schools. The fact is that CUSA interacted with all of them, including campus visits by leadership in some cases, and didn't extend invitations. The reasons had nothing to do with sports. I mean, they did invite FAU, FIU, and Charlotte in spite of the state of their football programs so they are obviously focusing on other things...for better or worse, as I said.
09-08-2017 01:10 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 11:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:25 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 10:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 09:56 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  $$$$$

They had that against the sorry ass poor Big South schools yet did nothing.

FBS boils down to three key factors.

1. Money
2. Schedules
3. Recruiting

Liberty is already out performing every G5 team on 1,2. And starting off your season taking down Baylor is going to be a good leg to build on for recruiting....I'm no FCS fan but I would be willing to wager Liberty is going to be a 10 win FCS team this year.

I think you're wrong on all accounts.

You are free to your own opinion.

But like they say "Where da $$ at" I don't see ODU spending them like Liberty...

And looking at 2019 they have three P5 schools + BYU on their schedule. Pretty darn good in my book.

They spend a few million more than ODU a year but are still far from the top of G5. ODU does have more P5 teams scheduled with only 4 OOC games per year and we got better deals from those schools.

And they won't win 10 games this year.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 01:21 PM by mturn017.)
09-08-2017 01:20 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #45
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 01:20 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 11:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:25 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 10:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  They had that against the sorry ass poor Big South schools yet did nothing.

FBS boils down to three key factors.

1. Money
2. Schedules
3. Recruiting

Liberty is already out performing every G5 team on 1,2. And starting off your season taking down Baylor is going to be a good leg to build on for recruiting....I'm no FCS fan but I would be willing to wager Liberty is going to be a 10 win FCS team this year.

I think you're wrong on all accounts.

You are free to your own opinion.

But like they say "Where da $$ at" I don't see ODU spending them like Liberty...

And looking at 2019 they have three P5 schools + BYU on their schedule. Pretty darn good in my book.

They spend a few million more than ODU a year but are still far from the top of G5. ODU does have more P5 teams scheduled with only 4 OOC games per year and we got better deals from those schools.

And they won't win 10 games this year.

Here is the thing though.

They are not a G5 program and ODU is. ODU is systematically destined to be a bottom feeder. While Liberty has the no pun intended the liberty to be as good as they want to be.

And you are full of it on the schedule lol. Liberty becomes an FBS team in 2018 and in 2020 they already have four P5 teams scheduled. And they still have five spots open on that schedule. ODU has a potential for 4 OOC games and you guys have already filled them with 1 G5 team and 3 P5 teams. Then you go on to play the rest of your games in arguably the worst conference in FBS.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 01:56 PM by TrojanCampaign.)
09-08-2017 01:47 PM
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HeartOfDixie Online
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Post: #46
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 01:47 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 01:20 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 11:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:25 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  FBS boils down to three key factors.

1. Money
2. Schedules
3. Recruiting

Liberty is already out performing every G5 team on 1,2. And starting off your season taking down Baylor is going to be a good leg to build on for recruiting....I'm no FCS fan but I would be willing to wager Liberty is going to be a 10 win FCS team this year.

I think you're wrong on all accounts.

You are free to your own opinion.

But like they say "Where da $$ at" I don't see ODU spending them like Liberty...

And looking at 2019 they have three P5 schools + BYU on their schedule. Pretty darn good in my book.

They spend a few million more than ODU a year but are still far from the top of G5. ODU does have more P5 teams scheduled with only 4 OOC games per year and we got better deals from those schools.

And they won't win 10 games this year.

Here is the thing though.

They are not a G5 program and ODU is. ODU is systematically destined to be a bottom feeder. While Liberty has the no pun intended the liberty to be as good as they want to be.

And you are full of it on the schedule lol. Liberty becomes an FBS team in 2018 and in 2020 they already have four P5 teams scheduled. And they still have five spots open on that schedule. ODU has a potential for 4 OOC games and you guys have already filled them with 1 G5 team and 3 P5 teams. Then you go on to play the rest of your games in arguably the worst conference in FBS.

This is an important point.

Liberty has no systemic cap.

Every public G5 program has a cap beyond which they will never pass. It would just be a gross misallocation of resources.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 02:14 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
09-08-2017 02:14 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #47
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 02:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 01:47 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 01:20 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 11:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I think you're wrong on all accounts.

You are free to your own opinion.

But like they say "Where da $$ at" I don't see ODU spending them like Liberty...

And looking at 2019 they have three P5 schools + BYU on their schedule. Pretty darn good in my book.

They spend a few million more than ODU a year but are still far from the top of G5. ODU does have more P5 teams scheduled with only 4 OOC games per year and we got better deals from those schools.

And they won't win 10 games this year.

Here is the thing though.

They are not a G5 program and ODU is. ODU is systematically destined to be a bottom feeder. While Liberty has the no pun intended the liberty to be as good as they want to be.

And you are full of it on the schedule lol. Liberty becomes an FBS team in 2018 and in 2020 they already have four P5 teams scheduled. And they still have five spots open on that schedule. ODU has a potential for 4 OOC games and you guys have already filled them with 1 G5 team and 3 P5 teams. Then you go on to play the rest of your games in arguably the worst conference in FBS.

This is an important point.

Liberty has no systemic cap.

Every public G5 program has a cap beyond which they will never pass. It would just be a gross misallocation of resources.

Exactly, it's almost impossible for a G5 to rise high enough to be in playoff consideration because G5 teams have a limit on how many P5 teams they can schedule. Liberty does not have that limitation so for them it's about how much money they are willing to spend.

Look at their 2020 schedule for instance. They have four ACC teams scheduled( VT, UVA, Cuse, NC State) and an independent. If they can land a game against Army or BYU that's six games against non-G5 opponents. If they filled the rest of that schedule with G5 teams they have a playoff worthy schedule.

No G5 even has the possibility of this.
09-08-2017 02:58 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
Maybe liberty can help RESURRECT independent football
09-08-2017 05:23 PM
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Post: #49
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 01:01 PM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:51 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 12:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  At the end of the day, they don't want to be associated with a school whose enrollment is 85% online. Same reason that Grand Canyon will struggle to find a real conference.

Liberty might end up overshadowing them in football, but this decision was not a football decision.

I've said the same thing about having concern over the online enrollment figures.

The only thing is that as a whole the institution is roughly on par with those in CUSA.

Academically??? I'm honestly insulted. It's a shiny diploma mill.

That's an unfair characterization of Liberty.

I love it when folks say diploma mill over and over again on this forum. It really shows they have no idea how the US education system works. Below is the link and quote on what a diploma mill is according to the USDOE. Which is the authority on all things edu. Not random posters using the term incorrectly.

What is a diploma mill?

The Higher Education Opportunity Act defines a diploma mill as follows:

DIPLOMA MILL- The term `diploma mill' means an entity that--
(A)(i) offers, for a fee, degrees, diplomas, or certificates, that may be used to represent to the general public that the individual possessing such a degree, diploma, or certificate has completed a program of postsecondary education or training; and (ii) requires such individual to complete little or no education or coursework to obtain such degree, diploma, or certificate; and
(B) lacks accreditation by an accrediting agency or association that is recognized as an accrediting agency or association of institutions of higher education (as such term is defined in section 102) by--
(i) the Secretary pursuant to subpart 2 of part H of title IV; or (ii) a Federal agency, State government, or other organization or association that recognizes accrediting agencies or associations.

The dictionary defines a diploma mill as:

An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. - Webster's Third New International Dictionary


https://www2.ed.gov/students/prep/colleg...mills.html

Please stop bringing up Carolina's problems
09-08-2017 07:15 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-07-2017 10:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Losers can't be choosers.

Army
UMass
Liberty

Start a conference together why don't ya?

Get Army off that list
09-08-2017 07:57 PM
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #51
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
About the whole "losers can't be choosers" thing:

Army can join the AAC tomorrow. All they have to do is ask. Aresco would find a 14th team.

Army has played: Tulane, Navy, UConn, Temple, ECU (I think?) a number of times and already has the institutional connections necessary to get presidents moving. It can happen.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 09:30 PM by oliveandblue.)
09-08-2017 09:29 PM
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Post: #52
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
Time for a spinoff league:

C-USA East (Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU, FIU, & FAU)
Plus JMU, Liberty, App St, GA St, & GA Southern

If 12 is deemed too many leave out the Florida schools and tighten up the footprint.

To cover lost revenue for leaving C-USA Liberty provides everyone with some cash
09-08-2017 09:54 PM
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Post: #53
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
Army extended their contract with CBS through 2022, not going anywhere
09-08-2017 10:55 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #54
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 10:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Army extended their contract with CBS through 2022, not going anywhere

While true, it would have no bearing on accepting an offer from the AAC. Navy had a contract with CBS Sports when they accepted the Big East/AAC invite. In fact, because of years of scheduling commitments---if Army joined the AAC today, they wouldnt actually be able to begin play in the league until 2023 at the earliest (it could potentially be as late as 2027). That said, I dont think Army has any desire to play in any conference.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 11:38 PM by Attackcoog.)
09-08-2017 11:35 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #55
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 09:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Time for a spinoff league:

C-USA East (Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU, FIU, & FAU)
Plus JMU, Liberty, App St, GA St, & GA Southern

If 12 is deemed too many leave out the Florida schools and tighten up the footprint.

To cover lost revenue for leaving C-USA Liberty provides everyone with some cash


Hello!!!! Delaware wants Liberty's spot.
09-09-2017 02:06 AM
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Post: #56
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 09:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Time for a spinoff league:

C-USA East (Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU, FIU, & FAU)
Plus JMU, Liberty, App St, GA St, & GA Southern

If 12 is deemed too many leave out the Florida schools and tighten up the footprint.

To cover lost revenue for leaving C-USA Liberty provides everyone with some cash


The main problem for a CUSA split, can it bring in more money than it can now? I actually think the what needs to happen is the best teams from the SB and CUSA should take their top teams.

New Souther Regional Conference (Strong G5 conference and good regional matchups) For this to work the new conference needs a deal similar to the MAC.
West - East
Ark St - Marshall
La Tech - App State
So Miss - ODU
N Texas - WKU
Troy - MTSU
RICE -Liberty


See the Sunbelt back fill with FCS move ups JMU, EKU and surprise pick ETSU

My picks for the CUSA adds NMSU to get to 8. Probably needs two more teams but I have no idea.
09-09-2017 09:31 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #57
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-09-2017 09:31 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  The main problem for a CUSA split, can it bring in more money than it can now? I actually think the what needs to happen is the best teams from the SB and CUSA should take their top teams.

New Souther Regional Conference (Strong G5 conference and good regional matchups) For this to work the new conference needs a deal similar to the MAC.
West - East
Ark St - Marshall
La Tech - App State
So Miss - ODU
N Texas - WKU
Troy - MTSU
RICE -Liberty
That honestly accomplishes nothing. The geography is only marginally better (no UTEP), Troy has been trending the wrong direction in football and doesn't have the market that South Alabama or UAB has, and it cuts off access to Florida for recruiting.

If anything happens to clean up the G5, Liberty needs to find a way to invite seven existing FBS schools to the Big South:

Liberty
Old Dominion
Charlotte
App State
Coastal Carolina
Marshall
Georgia State
Georgia Southern

This puts C-USA at 11 and the Sun Belt at 6. Rearrange the deck chairs as how you see fit.
09-09-2017 11:38 AM
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Post: #58
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-08-2017 11:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 10:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Army extended their contract with CBS through 2022, not going anywhere

While true, it would have no bearing on accepting an offer from the AAC. Navy had a contract with CBS Sports when they accepted the Big East/AAC invite. In fact, because of years of scheduling commitments---if Army joined the AAC today, they wouldnt actually be able to begin play in the league until 2023 at the earliest (it could potentially be as late as 2027). That said, I dont think Army has any desire to play in any conference.

OK, how about this. Army is completely booked through 2021, and 2022 is setup for Indy schedule

2018 12 games
2019 12 game
2020 12 games
2021 13 games (one of these will get moved out)
2022 9 games

It lightens up at this point, with 4-6 games only set from 2023-2026 (some of those can be pushed out if need be) Realistically 2023 is the earliest Army can move into a conference. But why would they? As a Football only Independent they get more money from the Army-Navy game alone than the rest of the schools in the AAC get (except Navy).

Waiting until 2023 to decide also makes sense, because the fall out of the Big XII realignment will ripple through the FBS ranks. Sitting back to see what the landscape looks like at that point makes a lot of sense. If the AAC loses 4 or 5 schools and replaces them with CUSA and MAC schools, and the media contract continues to be anemic, why bother?
09-09-2017 12:35 PM
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Post: #59
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-07-2017 09:50 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 08:36 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  This is why I think the CUSA East splinter group will scoop them up at some point.

ODU and Charlotte are going to see the geography with Liberty and say its worth it.

That ship has already sailed. Liberty has far more potential than every CUSA school.

Not really sure as to how to correctly answer this one, but I will take a stab at it. I hate to say this, but academically, Liberty may be too far to the right for many conferences taste. I personally admire what Liberty has done academically, but unfortunately, most conferences will argue that Liberty is far more conservative than even Wake Forest(I'm picking on these two schools because, other than Liberty, they are the only Southern Baptist FBS schools I know of.). Granted, the Pac 12 is ultra liberal in its leanings (they won't even offer TCU membership!!), and is an extreme left example, but most conferences would not object to a Wake Forest or a TCU membership (IMO) so apparently, Liberty needs to find out how to be a little more like them academically.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2017 10:01 AM by DawgNBama.)
09-10-2017 08:36 AM
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Post: #60
RE: ODU Beat Writer on CUSA Possible Regreats Regarding Liberty
(09-09-2017 09:31 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 09:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Time for a spinoff league:

C-USA East (Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU, FIU, & FAU)
Plus JMU, Liberty, App St, GA St, & GA Southern

If 12 is deemed too many leave out the Florida schools and tighten up the footprint.

To cover lost revenue for leaving C-USA Liberty provides everyone with some cash


The main problem for a CUSA split, can it bring in more money than it can now? I actually think the what needs to happen is the best teams from the SB and CUSA should take their top teams.

New Souther Regional Conference (Strong G5 conference and good regional matchups) For this to work the new conference needs a deal similar to the MAC.
West - East
Ark St - Marshall
La Tech - App State
So Miss - ODU
N Texas - WKU
Troy - MTSU
RICE -Liberty


See the Sunbelt back fill with FCS move ups JMU, EKU and surprise pick ETSU

My picks for the CUSA adds NMSU to get to 8. Probably needs two more teams but I have no idea.

The AAC and CUSA made their mistakes with the 2010s realignments not killing off the Sun Belt. CUSA took FBS newbies Charlotte, ODU and UTSA while leaving a core in the Sun Belt, who added USA, GSU, Georgia St., Appalachian St., Coastal Carolina and Texas St. from FCS. It makes for a more crowded market for TV $, media attention, recruits and to some extent fans. It serves to widen the gap between the P5 and G5.

If the AAC had Rice and UTEP and CUSA didn't take ODU and Charlotte and had ULL, Arkansas ST., Troy and ULM or NMSU, it would be a G4 with 120-125 FBS schools instead of 130.
09-10-2017 09:14 AM
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