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XLance Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-21-2017 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 02:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 02:13 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 01:16 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I like 20 as a final number better than 18.

1) You can easily divide into 4 divisions and each division can produce a participant for the conference semis. I think it's much easier than creating a system to select a wildcard.

2) If we go to 9 games then 20 is more conducive to balanced scheduling because 2 divisions can have 5 home games while the other 2 can have 5 away games. They would simply switch the following season. There is no advantage of one division mate over another as would have to be the case if the number is 18. I think that sort of imbalance could lead to issues.

I would suggest this...

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

Play each of your division mates annually = 4
Select 2 permanent rivals from any division = 2
Play 1 opponent from each division on a rotational basis = 3

That's 9 games that preserve rivalries and allow plenty of room for non-conference games of note.

As to you last 2 posts, I have no problem with 20 as long as they fit and add. And, the SEC and the Big 10 are the most compact because only the desperate go beyond the natural grasp of their footprint to gain a school. The ACC needed relevance so they get N.D. as a partial. The PAC was dying for market penetration and Denver was attractive. WVU we've covered.

If we want to go to 20 profitably then it needs to be one of these options: Oklahoma, Texas, North Carolina, Duke, Florida State, Clemson; or Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, North Carolina, Duke, Florida State, Clemson; or substitute North Carolina State and Virginia Tech for North Carolina and Duke in either of the first two scenarios. So let's not waste space on the Big 12 until we know absolutely that the ACC is off the menu.

They may not be solvent long term.

I think if the ACC is ever breached by us though then we might as well go to 24. There are so many strong regional connections that could be re-established or created that I think it would pay dividends.

Personally, I would also like to ensure the inclusion of Texas as well. If we ever break away from ESPN then we may need the extra punch to ensure another network(s) is paying us what we're worth. The extra gravitas to the league will make picking off certain ACC schools that much easier.

Something like this one day maybe...

Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State in the short term

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia Tech in the long term

'the problem at 24 is that you can't play everyone every 4 years and have any OOC games to speak of. Also finding 6 that make you more money is danged tough. Finding 10 is probably impossible.

As to the SEC's future value to another network, we don't need to do anything but win. Our value is based on the extremely high % of our households that tune into SEC games each week. If we are winning it is too valuable to pass up. Having A&M puts us into Texas, but I agree if we had the Horns it gets even stronger.

I agree that adding 10 would be very difficult to maintain profitability in the current climate. I'm thinking the climate may change though.

If you add a large number of strong brands from multiple regions then all of a sudden the dynamics are different. The networks start competing with each other to a greater degree than the conferences are competing with each other for air time.

Travel and media exposure is what split the old Southern Conference. Those hurdles have been eliminated in the modern economy so I'm wondering if that's not where we're headed...a revival of that league.

Bless your heart for thinking about us.... but.............NO THANKS!
09-21-2017 02:58 PM
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #122
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-21-2017 02:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I agree that adding 10 would be very difficult to maintain profitability in the current climate. I'm thinking the climate may change though.

If you add a large number of strong brands from multiple regions then all of a sudden the dynamics are different. The networks start competing with each other to a greater degree than the conferences are competing with each other for air time.

Travel and media exposure is what split the old Southern Conference. Those hurdles have been eliminated in the modern economy so I'm wondering if that's not where we're headed...a revival of that league.

Bless your heart for thinking about us.... but.............NO THANKS!

You know you'd enjoy it if there were a few neighbors around.

And weren't you the one so eager to reunite with South Carolina? Well, there you go!
09-21-2017 03:32 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #123
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-21-2017 02:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  27 is the ticket!

B1G/ACC
South: UVa, Carolina, State, Duke, Clemson, GT, FSU, Wake Forest and Miami
Northeast: Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Northwestern and Notre Dame
Mid-west: Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio State

SEC/Big 12
West: Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Missouri, and TCU
Central: Arkansas, Baylor, Texas, Texas A&M LSU, Central Florida, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Ole Miss
South: Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Mississippi State

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...999997&z=5

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...231284&z=6

Stranger things have happened. I would think Delany and Swofford being UNC grads could work something out between them at the Rams Club. One never knows...
09-21-2017 11:16 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #124
Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-21-2017 11:43 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Lenville in spite of all of the scenarios kicked around, and in spite of all of the theories on how realignment will end, there is only one reality and it really kills discussion when it is absorbed as the truth that it is.

A school will move to a conference that provides it with these things:

1. A proximity convenient enough for their fans to access by driving.

2. A conference that can reconstruct for their fans a schedule that reunites them with old rivals, or affords them enough travel companions, or provides them with access to enough new brands, to be able to recreate a schedule that appeals to their fans.

3. That is close enough to keep expenses low and permit fans of minor sports to affordably attend events and which carries minor sports which matches best those of the entering school.

4. A new conference that enhances the bottom line.

And to compound this effect the conferences will be looking for the same things in the schools they invite.

Because of that the following speculations are not likely to ever come to pass:

1. Schools that are outliers geographically will be invited.

It's only happened once in power conferences (West Virginia) and then it was because the Big 12 was desperate to keep their TV contract viable. Because of that these speculations are either not likely or not possible:
Iowa State to the SEC, Texas to the ACC, Texas to the B1G. B.Y.U. to anywhere that is not the PAC (who won't take them). The only reason that the PAC is considered at all is because they are best able to add a division of schools and quite frankly that is also why they aren't likely to add just two. Texas and Oklahoma would not like being in the PAC if they have to traverse half of the continent to play games. They would need an Eastern division of about 4 more of their friends to make it viable.

2. Schools that can't add to the bottom line will be included on their own.
So Texas Tech, T.C.U., Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor and perhaps West Virginia (they are close in revenue earned, behind in venue, academics, # of sports for the SEC & B1G) will not be added on their own steam. Any of them might be considered for a variety of reasons if paired with Oklahoma or Texas. Only Kansas might make it on their own and even then they might not add enough value for the liability of their football earning potential to be added to the B1G or SEC on their own.

3 Schools that don't travel well, and have a poor capacity at their venue will not be added. The SEC averages 77,500 and the Big 10 averages 66,000 in attendance at their venues. Kansas averaged 25,700 last year in attendance. Baylor and T.C.U. are in the 40's below even the ACC's paultry 49,000 averaged in attendance. Iowa State averages in the high 50's as does even Oklahoma State. There are only two schools in the Big 12 that would meet or exceed the mean of the SEC/B1G attendance, Texas and Oklahoma.

4. The best fit for minor sports, geographical proximity, and for old rivals for Oklahoma and Texas is the SEC. I'm not saying we get them, but I am saying if they have to go somewhere else we will get a serious look because of our advantages in the areas mentioned above.

5. People need to keep a map of the United State in front of them when making up their scenarios. There are schools that simply would be too difficult for the fan bases of most conferences schools to be practically considered. And with a map in front of you a more viable package can be seen to assimilate not just one or two schools but perhaps 4 which gives the conference control over a region. The cumulative value then can offset some of the deficits that just an individual school would bring. It is why Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State as a group truly works. The area between them is relatively confined and you get two top 7 brands and two competitive programs and they all love playing one another.

So, if the ACC is going to expand with Texas, they need to think in terms of adding a division. Otherwise I don't think it will work for very long if at all. And as far as Texas and A&M are concerned I know they hate each other passionately, but that passion is profitable for both in many ways. Auburn and Alabama hate each other but without that annual game the passion for either fan base would lessen. I think Texas and A&M have both sagged in part because they don't have each other as an annual catalyst to passion. We'll see.


I said "neatest & lest intrusive" JR & that it wouldn't happen, mainly for these reasons that you gave. The move wouldn't affect the SEC, B1G, ACC or ND in anyway. We would have a P4 & a tweener. Neat & non intrusive.

Just for kicks & giggles:
PAC South: Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Arizona State, UCLA, Colorado, Utah

PAC North: Oregon, USC, Stanford, Cal, Washington, Wash State, Oregon State

If you want 16 & more geographical balance then move UCLA north & add in two more B12 schools but Texas & Oklahoma would be the optimum financially for the PAC.


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09-22-2017 08:27 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #125
Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-21-2017 11:16 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 02:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  27 is the ticket!

B1G/ACC
South: UVa, Carolina, State, Duke, Clemson, GT, FSU, Wake Forest and Miami
Northeast: Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Northwestern and Notre Dame
Mid-west: Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio State

SEC/Big 12
West: Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Missouri, and TCU
Central: Arkansas, Baylor, Texas, Texas A&M LSU, Central Florida, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Ole Miss
South: Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Mississippi State

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...999997&z=5

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...231284&z=6

Stranger things have happened. I would think Delany and Swofford being UNC grads could work something out between them at the Rams Club. One never knows...


I would suspect that FSU, Clemson, Miami & perhaps a few more would prefer the SEC along with Louisville.


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09-22-2017 08:47 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
With Boren stepping down next year, I'm kind of liking the idea of adding Oklahoma and Kansas as the #15 and 16th members of the SEC. that would regionalize Arkansas and Missouri nicely. Add blue bloods in both football and basketball.
(This post was last modified: 09-22-2017 09:46 AM by murrdcu.)
09-22-2017 09:44 AM
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RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 09:44 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  With Boren stepping down next year, I'm kind of liking the idea of adding Oklahoma and Kansas as the #15 and 16th members of the SEC. that would regionalize Arkansas and Missouri nicely. Add blue bloods in both football and basketball.

That would be nice.

If we don't have to worry about the little brothers then this is what I'd like to see...

Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

I'd be fine with West Virginia too, but the ACC probably needs them.
09-22-2017 11:12 AM
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RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 11:12 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 09:44 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  With Boren stepping down next year, I'm kind of liking the idea of adding Oklahoma and Kansas as the #15 and 16th members of the SEC. that would regionalize Arkansas and Missouri nicely. Add blue bloods in both football and basketball.

That would be nice.

If we don't have to worry about the little brothers then this is what I'd like to see...

Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

I'd be fine with West Virginia too, but the ACC probably needs them.

The votes might not be there for WVU without some TV contract increases and conference infighting like how FSU pushed for Louisville to replace Maryland as it was the best football product available.

I wouldn't mind seeing WVU paired with Virginia Tech if possible. WVU is located way up there geographically. They would fit in nicely in SEC culturally and they've had time to improve facilities and runways and other travel infrastructure should a spot come open again.
09-22-2017 11:33 AM
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Post: #129
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 11:33 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 11:12 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 09:44 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  With Boren stepping down next year, I'm kind of liking the idea of adding Oklahoma and Kansas as the #15 and 16th members of the SEC. that would regionalize Arkansas and Missouri nicely. Add blue bloods in both football and basketball.

That would be nice.

If we don't have to worry about the little brothers then this is what I'd like to see...

Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

I'd be fine with West Virginia too, but the ACC probably needs them.

The votes might not be there for WVU without some TV contract increases and conference infighting like how FSU pushed for Louisville to replace Maryland as it was the best football product available.

I wouldn't mind seeing WVU paired with Virginia Tech if possible. WVU is located way up there geographically. They would fit in nicely in SEC culturally and they've had time to improve facilities and runways and other travel infrastructure should a spot come open again.

If the ACC is truly secure, then Texa-homa is all we need. Kansas is a fine school, but an average attendance of 25,700 for home football games just doesn't fit, period.

18 gives us a very nice way to divide in house and Texas and Oklahoma make 18 profitable. Kansas and West Virginia can only subtract from the profits the first four would give us. Now if #19 & 20 were Clemson/Florida State as brands, or Virginia Tech/& a North Carolina school as market, then moving to 20 makes some sense.
09-22-2017 12:35 PM
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RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 11:33 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 11:12 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 09:44 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  With Boren stepping down next year, I'm kind of liking the idea of adding Oklahoma and Kansas as the #15 and 16th members of the SEC. that would regionalize Arkansas and Missouri nicely. Add blue bloods in both football and basketball.

That would be nice.

If we don't have to worry about the little brothers then this is what I'd like to see...

Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

I'd be fine with West Virginia too, but the ACC probably needs them.

The votes might not be there for WVU without some TV contract increases and conference infighting like how FSU pushed for Louisville to replace Maryland as it was the best football product available.

I wouldn't mind seeing WVU paired with Virginia Tech if possible. WVU is located way up there geographically. They would fit in nicely in SEC culturally and they've had time to improve facilities and runways and other travel infrastructure should a spot come open again.

The ACC just has so few options left in their region. I imagine the networks would pay for WVU so they could add another Western school to the SEC although I'm guessing.

If ESPN could guarantee the bulk of the Big 12 in the American then I think they'd love that outcome. I don't see the B1G or PAC being interested in very many of these.
09-22-2017 12:59 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 08:47 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 11:16 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 02:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  27 is the ticket!

B1G/ACC
South: UVa, Carolina, State, Duke, Clemson, GT, FSU, Wake Forest and Miami
Northeast: Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Northwestern and Notre Dame
Mid-west: Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio State

SEC/Big 12
West: Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Missouri, and TCU
Central: Arkansas, Baylor, Texas, Texas A&M LSU, Central Florida, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Ole Miss
South: Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Mississippi State

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...999997&z=5

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...231284&z=6

Stranger things have happened. I would think Delany and Swofford being UNC grads could work something out between them at the Rams Club. One never knows...


I would suspect that FSU, Clemson, Miami & perhaps a few more would prefer the SEC along with Louisville.


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You would be wrong about Clemson.
Florida State is a different animal and they would have options including moving to the SEC where they could become the Auburn of Florida.
Miami on the other hand, I believe would choose to stay with the rest of the "privates".
From what I can tell Louisville would be quite at home in the SEC.
09-22-2017 01:45 PM
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #132
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 12:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 11:33 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 11:12 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 09:44 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  With Boren stepping down next year, I'm kind of liking the idea of adding Oklahoma and Kansas as the #15 and 16th members of the SEC. that would regionalize Arkansas and Missouri nicely. Add blue bloods in both football and basketball.

That would be nice.

If we don't have to worry about the little brothers then this is what I'd like to see...

Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

I'd be fine with West Virginia too, but the ACC probably needs them.

The votes might not be there for WVU without some TV contract increases and conference infighting like how FSU pushed for Louisville to replace Maryland as it was the best football product available.

I wouldn't mind seeing WVU paired with Virginia Tech if possible. WVU is located way up there geographically. They would fit in nicely in SEC culturally and they've had time to improve facilities and runways and other travel infrastructure should a spot come open again.

If the ACC is truly secure, then Texa-homa is all we need. Kansas is a fine school, but an average attendance of 25,700 for home football games just doesn't fit, period.

18 gives us a very nice way to divide in house and Texas and Oklahoma make 18 profitable. Kansas and West Virginia can only subtract from the profits the first four would give us. Now if #19 & 20 were Clemson/Florida State as brands, or Virginia Tech/& a North Carolina school as market, then moving to 20 makes some sense.

Not that Texahoma bothers me, but I think Kansas would be more valuable than Texas Tech.

The basketball brand is part of the equation as well as the AAU status, but KU is a major revenue producer and that could increase if they start to take football seriously. Especially if Kansas State is relegated then KU will be one of the few options in the region. Mostly, I think ESPN will be interested in keeping their brand in the fold.

If ESPN gets to add any schools that they want to the SEC then I've always thought it would be Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas. No one else really generates big revenue in that part of the country and very few have any brand power. KU is one of them though. Of course, Tech may be required by the politicians in TX.

In part, I think ESPN would love to add value to the American so they could keep the content and make it more relevant without having to shell out a fortune for schools in the Big 12.

If I'm ESPN then I'm thinking along these lines...

SEC adds Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky


ACC adds West Virginia and UConn while Notre Dame remains a partial

North: Miami, Virginia Tech, Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, Boston College
South: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia


American adds Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State, BYU, Boise State, San Diego State

American:

East: Temple, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF
Central: Navy, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulsa
South: Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Kansas State, Iowa State
West: San Diego State, Boise State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State
09-22-2017 03:57 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 03:57 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 12:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 11:33 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 11:12 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 09:44 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  With Boren stepping down next year, I'm kind of liking the idea of adding Oklahoma and Kansas as the #15 and 16th members of the SEC. that would regionalize Arkansas and Missouri nicely. Add blue bloods in both football and basketball.

That would be nice.

If we don't have to worry about the little brothers then this is what I'd like to see...

Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

I'd be fine with West Virginia too, but the ACC probably needs them.

The votes might not be there for WVU without some TV contract increases and conference infighting like how FSU pushed for Louisville to replace Maryland as it was the best football product available.

I wouldn't mind seeing WVU paired with Virginia Tech if possible. WVU is located way up there geographically. They would fit in nicely in SEC culturally and they've had time to improve facilities and runways and other travel infrastructure should a spot come open again.

If the ACC is truly secure, then Texa-homa is all we need. Kansas is a fine school, but an average attendance of 25,700 for home football games just doesn't fit, period.

18 gives us a very nice way to divide in house and Texas and Oklahoma make 18 profitable. Kansas and West Virginia can only subtract from the profits the first four would give us. Now if #19 & 20 were Clemson/Florida State as brands, or Virginia Tech/& a North Carolina school as market, then moving to 20 makes some sense.

Not that Texahoma bothers me, but I think Kansas would be more valuable than Texas Tech.

The basketball brand is part of the equation as well as the AAU status, but KU is a major revenue producer and that could increase if they start to take football seriously. Especially if Kansas State is relegated then KU will be one of the few options in the region. Mostly, I think ESPN will be interested in keeping their brand in the fold.

If ESPN gets to add any schools that they want to the SEC then I've always thought it would be Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas. No one else really generates big revenue in that part of the country and very few have any brand power. KU is one of them though. Of course, Tech may be required by the politicians in TX.

In part, I think ESPN would love to add value to the American so they could keep the content and make it more relevant without having to shell out a fortune for schools in the Big 12.

If I'm ESPN then I'm thinking along these lines...

SEC adds Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky


ACC adds West Virginia and UConn while Notre Dame remains a partial

North: Miami, Virginia Tech, Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, Boston College
South: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia


American adds Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State, BYU, Boise State, San Diego State

American:

East: Temple, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF
Central: Navy, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulsa
South: Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Kansas State, Iowa State
West: San Diego State, Boise State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State

If we didn't have to take Tech to get Texas then I agree. If we do then Kansas is moot whether they add more value than Tech or not.
09-22-2017 04:11 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
The ideal would be for the SEC to take 5.....Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, OSU and Kansas and give up one i the east.
09-22-2017 09:15 PM
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Post: #135
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 09:15 PM)XLance Wrote:  The ideal would be for the SEC to take 5.....Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, OSU and Kansas and give up one i the east.

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09-22-2017 11:31 PM
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #136
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 03:57 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Not that Texahoma bothers me, but I think Kansas would be more valuable than Texas Tech.

The basketball brand is part of the equation as well as the AAU status, but KU is a major revenue producer and that could increase if they start to take football seriously. Especially if Kansas State is relegated then KU will be one of the few options in the region. Mostly, I think ESPN will be interested in keeping their brand in the fold.

If ESPN gets to add any schools that they want to the SEC then I've always thought it would be Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas. No one else really generates big revenue in that part of the country and very few have any brand power. KU is one of them though. Of course, Tech may be required by the politicians in TX.

In part, I think ESPN would love to add value to the American so they could keep the content and make it more relevant without having to shell out a fortune for schools in the Big 12.

If I'm ESPN then I'm thinking along these lines...

SEC adds Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky


ACC adds West Virginia and UConn while Notre Dame remains a partial

North: Miami, Virginia Tech, Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, Boston College
South: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia


American adds Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State, BYU, Boise State, San Diego State

American:

East: Temple, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF
Central: Navy, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulsa
South: Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Kansas State, Iowa State
West: San Diego State, Boise State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State

If we didn't have to take Tech to get Texas then I agree. If we do then Kansas is moot whether they add more value than Tech or not.

Another thought comes to mind...

Assuming the SEC takes Texahoma and assuming the ACC doesn't make any significant moves beyond West Virginia and UConn to go to 16...

There is a way for ESPN to enter into content acquisition mode that doesn't involve the PAC, B1G, or the American.

I think it is increasingly doubtful that the Big 12 will be parceled out. There simply is no good way to divide the league up among the other Power leagues. The best that can be done is probably the moves I outlined...5 divided up between the SEC and ACC. It makes the most sense for the leagues and the likes of UT and OU. That leaves 5 looking for a new home...

While the Big 12 GOR is owned by ESPN and FOX, I would have to assume that a major realignment would trigger a renegotiation of the deal. This actually could be in the best interests of the networks however.

It might be hard to convince the Big 12 leftovers to move to the American unless that league was given a significant raise. Cheaper for ESPN as it represents a big savings in not paying for the Big 12 contract that way, but you'd still have to raise the AAC. That's an awful lot of content that's already owned by ESPN in which you'd have to pay more for in order to keep.

In reality, as the AAC contract expires in the next couple of years, ESPN will have to pay a little more for them anyway, but there's no particularly good reason to pay a 16, 18, or 20 team American 'tweener' money when they simply aren't worth it...especially if you promote UConn to the ACC.

There is another option though. Partnering with FOX to save money on a new Big 12 that takes advantage of brand power to draw in schools from the only league that currently belongs to a network outside of either ESPN or FOX...the Mountain West.

They could do this...

Leftover Big 12 members....TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State could add BYU and pick apart the Mountain West.

Big 12 adds Colorado State, Air Force, San Diego State, Boise State, New Mexico, and UNLV

The new league will have to be paid a little more than the Mountain West, but such a significant movement should trigger a renegotiation that should reduce the payment over what the Big 12 would otherwise be entitled to. That and the new money is split between ESPN and FOX so both get new content without having to pay a fortune for it. That and it makes more geographical sense.

What you could also see and this might benefit ESPN more directly...a revival of a new lower tier Western league. Perhaps the Mountain West backfills or perhaps the WAC gets some sort of revival. Either way, there's a clear opportunity for Western FCS schools to move up and create a little extra G5 or in this case G6 content for a bargain price. ESPN is probably the beneficiary.
09-23-2017 08:28 AM
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Post: #137
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-23-2017 08:28 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 03:57 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Not that Texahoma bothers me, but I think Kansas would be more valuable than Texas Tech.

The basketball brand is part of the equation as well as the AAU status, but KU is a major revenue producer and that could increase if they start to take football seriously. Especially if Kansas State is relegated then KU will be one of the few options in the region. Mostly, I think ESPN will be interested in keeping their brand in the fold.

If ESPN gets to add any schools that they want to the SEC then I've always thought it would be Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas. No one else really generates big revenue in that part of the country and very few have any brand power. KU is one of them though. Of course, Tech may be required by the politicians in TX.

In part, I think ESPN would love to add value to the American so they could keep the content and make it more relevant without having to shell out a fortune for schools in the Big 12.

If I'm ESPN then I'm thinking along these lines...

SEC adds Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky


ACC adds West Virginia and UConn while Notre Dame remains a partial

North: Miami, Virginia Tech, Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, Boston College
South: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia


American adds Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State, BYU, Boise State, San Diego State

American:

East: Temple, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF
Central: Navy, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulsa
South: Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Kansas State, Iowa State
West: San Diego State, Boise State, BYU, Air Force, Colorado State

If we didn't have to take Tech to get Texas then I agree. If we do then Kansas is moot whether they add more value than Tech or not.

Another thought comes to mind...

Assuming the SEC takes Texahoma and assuming the ACC doesn't make any significant moves beyond West Virginia and UConn to go to 16...

There is a way for ESPN to enter into content acquisition mode that doesn't involve the PAC, B1G, or the American.

I think it is increasingly doubtful that the Big 12 will be parceled out. There simply is no good way to divide the league up among the other Power leagues. The best that can be done is probably the moves I outlined...5 divided up between the SEC and ACC. It makes the most sense for the leagues and the likes of UT and OU. That leaves 5 looking for a new home...

While the Big 12 GOR is owned by ESPN and FOX, I would have to assume that a major realignment would trigger a renegotiation of the deal. This actually could be in the best interests of the networks however.

It might be hard to convince the Big 12 leftovers to move to the American unless that league was given a significant raise. Cheaper for ESPN as it represents a big savings in not paying for the Big 12 contract that way, but you'd still have to raise the AAC. That's an awful lot of content that's already owned by ESPN in which you'd have to pay more for in order to keep.

In reality, as the AAC contract expires in the next couple of years, ESPN will have to pay a little more for them anyway, but there's no particularly good reason to pay a 16, 18, or 20 team American 'tweener' money when they simply aren't worth it...especially if you promote UConn to the ACC.

There is another option though. Partnering with FOX to save money on a new Big 12 that takes advantage of brand power to draw in schools from the only league that currently belongs to a network outside of either ESPN or FOX...the Mountain West.

They could do this...

Leftover Big 12 members....TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State could add BYU and pick apart the Mountain West.

Big 12 adds Colorado State, Air Force, San Diego State, Boise State, New Mexico, and UNLV

The new league will have to be paid a little more than the Mountain West, but such a significant movement should trigger a renegotiation that should reduce the payment over what the Big 12 would otherwise be entitled to. That and the new money is split between ESPN and FOX so both get new content without having to pay a fortune for it. That and it makes more geographical sense.

What you could also see and this might benefit ESPN more directly...a revival of a new lower tier Western league. Perhaps the Mountain West backfills or perhaps the WAC gets some sort of revival. Either way, there's a clear opportunity for Western FCS schools to move up and create a little extra G5 or in this case G6 content for a bargain price. ESPN is probably the beneficiary.

That'd be more competitive with the American as opposed to the Mountain West today.

West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, BYU, Colorado St, Air Force
East: New Mexico, TCU, BaylorC Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St
09-23-2017 09:40 AM
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Post: #138
Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-22-2017 01:45 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-22-2017 08:47 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 11:16 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(09-21-2017 02:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  27 is the ticket!

B1G/ACC
South: UVa, Carolina, State, Duke, Clemson, GT, FSU, Wake Forest and Miami
Northeast: Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Northwestern and Notre Dame
Mid-west: Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio State

SEC/Big 12
West: Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Missouri, and TCU
Central: Arkansas, Baylor, Texas, Texas A&M LSU, Central Florida, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Ole Miss
South: Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Mississippi State

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...999997&z=5

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...231284&z=6

Stranger things have happened. I would think Delany and Swofford being UNC grads could work something out between them at the Rams Club. One never knows...


I would suspect that FSU, Clemson, Miami & perhaps a few more would prefer the SEC along with Louisville.


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You would be wrong about Clemson.
Florida State is a different animal and they would have options including moving to the SEC where they could become the Auburn of Florida.
Miami on the other hand, I believe would choose to stay with the rest of the "privates".
From what I can tell Louisville would be quite at home in the SEC.


Most of Clemsons rivals (Auburn, Georgia & South Carolina) are in the SEC so I don't think I'm wrong about them.

The SEC & B1G are both quality conferences so I think that Louisville would be "quite at home" in either but, as a football fan, I would prefer the SEC. In this scenario though with NC, Duke & the northern flank of the ACC in the B1G I would enjoy it more than the current version. Obviously my first preference would be for the ACC to avoid this scenario. The future of the ACC however doesn't lay in the hands of Louisville.


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09-23-2017 02:35 PM
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Post: #139
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-23-2017 09:40 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(09-23-2017 08:28 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Another thought comes to mind...

Assuming the SEC takes Texahoma and assuming the ACC doesn't make any significant moves beyond West Virginia and UConn to go to 16...

There is a way for ESPN to enter into content acquisition mode that doesn't involve the PAC, B1G, or the American.

I think it is increasingly doubtful that the Big 12 will be parceled out. There simply is no good way to divide the league up among the other Power leagues. The best that can be done is probably the moves I outlined...5 divided up between the SEC and ACC. It makes the most sense for the leagues and the likes of UT and OU. That leaves 5 looking for a new home...

While the Big 12 GOR is owned by ESPN and FOX, I would have to assume that a major realignment would trigger a renegotiation of the deal. This actually could be in the best interests of the networks however.

It might be hard to convince the Big 12 leftovers to move to the American unless that league was given a significant raise. Cheaper for ESPN as it represents a big savings in not paying for the Big 12 contract that way, but you'd still have to raise the AAC. That's an awful lot of content that's already owned by ESPN in which you'd have to pay more for in order to keep.

In reality, as the AAC contract expires in the next couple of years, ESPN will have to pay a little more for them anyway, but there's no particularly good reason to pay a 16, 18, or 20 team American 'tweener' money when they simply aren't worth it...especially if you promote UConn to the ACC.

There is another option though. Partnering with FOX to save money on a new Big 12 that takes advantage of brand power to draw in schools from the only league that currently belongs to a network outside of either ESPN or FOX...the Mountain West.

They could do this...

Leftover Big 12 members....TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State could add BYU and pick apart the Mountain West.

Big 12 adds Colorado State, Air Force, San Diego State, Boise State, New Mexico, and UNLV

The new league will have to be paid a little more than the Mountain West, but such a significant movement should trigger a renegotiation that should reduce the payment over what the Big 12 would otherwise be entitled to. That and the new money is split between ESPN and FOX so both get new content without having to pay a fortune for it. That and it makes more geographical sense.

What you could also see and this might benefit ESPN more directly...a revival of a new lower tier Western league. Perhaps the Mountain West backfills or perhaps the WAC gets some sort of revival. Either way, there's a clear opportunity for Western FCS schools to move up and create a little extra G5 or in this case G6 content for a bargain price. ESPN is probably the beneficiary.

That'd be more competitive with the American as opposed to the Mountain West today.

West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, BYU, Colorado St, Air Force
East: New Mexico, TCU, BaylorC Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St

And I think you could get another Western league out of it too. That's interesting to me because there are programs that have talked about making the jump, but right now there is no place for them to go.

Hawaii, San Jose State, Fresno State, Nevada, Utah State, and Wyoming are left behind.

New Mexico State and Idaho are easy additions.

Might be some Big Sky schools that would be interested in moving up.
09-23-2017 05:24 PM
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Post: #140
RE: Another Realignment Thread: Why? Just Because
(09-23-2017 05:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(09-23-2017 09:40 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(09-23-2017 08:28 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Another thought comes to mind...

Assuming the SEC takes Texahoma and assuming the ACC doesn't make any significant moves beyond West Virginia and UConn to go to 16...

There is a way for ESPN to enter into content acquisition mode that doesn't involve the PAC, B1G, or the American.

I think it is increasingly doubtful that the Big 12 will be parceled out. There simply is no good way to divide the league up among the other Power leagues. The best that can be done is probably the moves I outlined...5 divided up between the SEC and ACC. It makes the most sense for the leagues and the likes of UT and OU. That leaves 5 looking for a new home...

While the Big 12 GOR is owned by ESPN and FOX, I would have to assume that a major realignment would trigger a renegotiation of the deal. This actually could be in the best interests of the networks however.

It might be hard to convince the Big 12 leftovers to move to the American unless that league was given a significant raise. Cheaper for ESPN as it represents a big savings in not paying for the Big 12 contract that way, but you'd still have to raise the AAC. That's an awful lot of content that's already owned by ESPN in which you'd have to pay more for in order to keep.

In reality, as the AAC contract expires in the next couple of years, ESPN will have to pay a little more for them anyway, but there's no particularly good reason to pay a 16, 18, or 20 team American 'tweener' money when they simply aren't worth it...especially if you promote UConn to the ACC.

There is another option though. Partnering with FOX to save money on a new Big 12 that takes advantage of brand power to draw in schools from the only league that currently belongs to a network outside of either ESPN or FOX...the Mountain West.

They could do this...

Leftover Big 12 members....TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State could add BYU and pick apart the Mountain West.

Big 12 adds Colorado State, Air Force, San Diego State, Boise State, New Mexico, and UNLV

The new league will have to be paid a little more than the Mountain West, but such a significant movement should trigger a renegotiation that should reduce the payment over what the Big 12 would otherwise be entitled to. That and the new money is split between ESPN and FOX so both get new content without having to pay a fortune for it. That and it makes more geographical sense.

What you could also see and this might benefit ESPN more directly...a revival of a new lower tier Western league. Perhaps the Mountain West backfills or perhaps the WAC gets some sort of revival. Either way, there's a clear opportunity for Western FCS schools to move up and create a little extra G5 or in this case G6 content for a bargain price. ESPN is probably the beneficiary.

That'd be more competitive with the American as opposed to the Mountain West today.

West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, BYU, Colorado St, Air Force
East: New Mexico, TCU, BaylorC Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St

And I think you could get another Western league out of it too. That's interesting to me because there are programs that have talked about making the jump, but right now there is no place for them to go.

Hawaii, San Jose State, Fresno State, Nevada, Utah State, and Wyoming are left behind.

New Mexico State and Idaho are easy additions.

Might be some Big Sky schools that would be interested in moving up.

Im sure some would be. Eastern Washington and the Montanas would be likely targets
09-23-2017 05:52 PM
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