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Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
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Post: #41
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 01:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

I'm starting to think that ArkST isn't going to get any money out of this. ESPN and ArkST can't second-guess Miami's decision that it is "impossible" under the circumstances to travel to Jonesboro. That decision can only be made by the school under the hurricane warning, not be second-guessed by anyone else.

And if it goes to court, I doubt a judge would second-guess either.

Plus, the optics of the situation are terrible for Ark State - Miami is under the gun of a major hurricane and you are going to try and squeeze $650k out of them because they have more important things to worry about than a football game? That will look like crass extortion.

The classy thing for Ark State to do is say "we understand Miami has bigger issues right now than a football game, we send our thoughts and prayers hoping that everyone at Miami is safe during the hurricane" and that's the end of it.

Sure A-State can second guess and can point to the fact AState and ESPN offered to move it Friday leaving them time to return to Miami before landfall or played on Saturday and sheltered in safety. Can also point to FAU in the same circumstances playing in Wisconsin and FIU moving their home game to Birmingham, two other schools in the same metro.

Precisely what courts exist for.

I'd love to be generous and give Miami a $650,000 pass but that is a massive hit on our budget and fan goodwill.
09-06-2017 02:22 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 01:41 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Miami is potentially about to be hit by one of the strongest hurricanes EVER, and we are worrying about a football game? Great decision by Miami putting the needs of their players and families first. A large part of their players are from Miami, and their homes are about to get plastered. Football is secondary. Too bad, so sad for Ark State unfortunately, but this is more important...by far. I can't even believe it's up for debate.
Just chalk it up to the blood lust of the football fan.

Be it not caring about CTE after playing days are over or the Twitterverse going crazy over Targeting calls over the weekend, people's entertainment is more important to the safety of others.
09-06-2017 02:24 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #43
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:24 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:41 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Miami is potentially about to be hit by one of the strongest hurricanes EVER, and we are worrying about a football game? Great decision by Miami putting the needs of their players and families first. A large part of their players are from Miami, and their homes are about to get plastered. Football is secondary. Too bad, so sad for Ark State unfortunately, but this is more important...by far. I can't even believe it's up for debate.
Just chalk it up to the blood lust of the football fan.

Be it not caring about CTE after playing days are over or the Twitterverse going crazy over Targeting calls over the weekend, people's entertainment is more important to the safety of others.

Load of crap
If safety were the concern, the players would be in the mid-south where arrangements were already being put in place to shelter the players for an extended time.
09-06-2017 02:26 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:22 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

I'm starting to think that ArkST isn't going to get any money out of this. ESPN and ArkST can't second-guess Miami's decision that it is "impossible" under the circumstances to travel to Jonesboro. That decision can only be made by the school under the hurricane warning, not be second-guessed by anyone else.

And if it goes to court, I doubt a judge would second-guess either.

Plus, the optics of the situation are terrible for Ark State - Miami is under the gun of a major hurricane and you are going to try and squeeze $650k out of them because they have more important things to worry about than a football game? That will look like crass extortion.

The classy thing for Ark State to do is say "we understand Miami has bigger issues right now than a football game, we send our thoughts and prayers hoping that everyone at Miami is safe during the hurricane" and that's the end of it.

Sure A-State can second guess and can point to the fact AState and ESPN offered to move it Friday leaving them time to return to Miami before landfall or played on Saturday and sheltered in safety. Can also point to FAU in the same circumstances playing in Wisconsin and FIU moving their home game to Birmingham, two other schools in the same metro.

Precisely what courts exist for.

I'm betting it will be pretty easy for Miami to deflect all that by talking about the variability in computer models and the need to put safety first.

But hey, good luck with that, OK? 07-coffee3
09-06-2017 02:26 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
Houston was practicing in Austin when the storm was coming. If that storm hits Miami, they would be MUCH better off in Jonesboro.
09-06-2017 02:28 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:16 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'd say sue them then.

Will probably cost them more in the long run as other G5 AD's get more hesitant about scheduling Miami.

Stiffing a G5 on home game buyout is not a real good look.

You seriously think that if party A sues a party B that is in the path of a giant hurricane because B decided it was safer to not travel to A, that public sympathy is going to be on the side of party A?

Seriously?

If it comes to that, A will be savaged in the media, online, etc. 07-coffee3

Look, i get it, you and the Ark State community were looking forward to this game, and it sucks to lose it. But the blame is on the hurricane, not Miami. Just feel fortunate your campus, students, faculty, etc. won't be suffering wind and flooding damage.
Fairly confident that contract law will be almost entirely unaffected by public sympathy as usual.

You are the one who raised the issue of how this will look in the 'court of public opinion', so i commented on that.

As for how it will play in a real court, good luck with that. I doubt a judge is going to side with the school not in the path of the hurricane. That "impossible" clause is going to be interpreted very liberally in favor of the school that was, as Frank said, in the 'force majeure' situation.

You'll probably lose in court, and surely on twitter. Hopefully, your admins are smart enough to know this.
I raised the point of the opinion of G5 AD's in reference to scheduling. That is very different than public opinion affecting a judge's decision in a court.

Your assertion that a judge will interpret the clause liberally...is just that...an assertion by you.

Your doubt that a judge will not side with a school outside of the path of the hurricane...is just that...your doubt.

Many times judges rely on specifics...like the word impossible really meaning impossible. That could be the case here, we will have to wait and see.

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09-06-2017 02:34 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #47
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:22 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

I'm starting to think that ArkST isn't going to get any money out of this. ESPN and ArkST can't second-guess Miami's decision that it is "impossible" under the circumstances to travel to Jonesboro. That decision can only be made by the school under the hurricane warning, not be second-guessed by anyone else.

And if it goes to court, I doubt a judge would second-guess either.

Plus, the optics of the situation are terrible for Ark State - Miami is under the gun of a major hurricane and you are going to try and squeeze $650k out of them because they have more important things to worry about than a football game? That will look like crass extortion.

The classy thing for Ark State to do is say "we understand Miami has bigger issues right now than a football game, we send our thoughts and prayers hoping that everyone at Miami is safe during the hurricane" and that's the end of it.

Sure A-State can second guess and can point to the fact AState and ESPN offered to move it Friday leaving them time to return to Miami before landfall or played on Saturday and sheltered in safety. Can also point to FAU in the same circumstances playing in Wisconsin and FIU moving their home game to Birmingham, two other schools in the same metro.

Precisely what courts exist for.

I'm betting it will be pretty easy for Miami to deflect all that by talking about the variability in computer models and the need to put safety first.

But hey, good luck with that, OK? 07-coffee3

I'd gladly take that case because I'm putting the AD on the stand to discuss how they dealt with Hurricane Matthew.
09-06-2017 02:35 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
Latest NWS path has Irma making a direct hit on Miami Sunday morning at 8 am as a major hurricane. Hoping this thing veers 100 miles or so to the east and spares south Florida.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 02:36 PM by BullsFanInTX.)
09-06-2017 02:36 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston was practicing in Austin when the storm was coming. If that storm hits Miami, they would be MUCH better off in Jonesboro.

It pretty amazing watching people who are unaffiliated with Miami and don't know the totality of their circumstances opining that they know better than Miami officials about what is safest for Miami. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 02:39 PM by quo vadis.)
09-06-2017 02:39 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:14 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

I'm starting to think that ArkST isn't going to get any money out of this. ESPN and ArkST can't second-guess Miami's decision that it is "impossible" under the circumstances to travel to Jonesboro. That decision can only be made by the school under the hurricane warning, not be second-guessed by anyone else.

And if it goes to court, I doubt a judge would second-guess either.

Plus, the optics of the situation are terrible for Ark State - Miami is under the gun of a major hurricane and you are going to try and squeeze $650k out of them because they have more important things to worry about than a football game? That will look like crass extortion.

The classy thing for Ark State to do is say "we understand Miami has bigger issues right now than a football game, we send our thoughts and prayers hoping that everyone at Miami is safe during the hurricane" and that's the end of it.
Not really concerned about optics or classy or what have you. More interested in contracts and legalities and not losing large amounts of money.

We are not wealthy. We can't just gift P5 programs a home game because of "feelz".



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You sure won't get any wealthier if you sue Miami. Legal and court costs will eat whatever you get. In addition, it would not surprise me if the ACC doesn't add AState to their schedules in the future if they sued one of their schools. ACC has a pretty long term memory, just ask UCONN. You have to decide, are you worried about legal contracts or losing future money. I think Miami should schedule Ark St in the future instead of canceling but I have personally not seen the contract, so I can't say what they are allowed to do.
09-06-2017 02:56 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:36 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Latest NWS path has Irma making a direct hit on Miami Sunday morning at 8 am as a major hurricane. Hoping this thing veers 100 miles or so to the east and spares south Florida.
People better get out. The video from St. Maarten and elsewhere is SCARY.

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09-06-2017 03:00 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston was practicing in Austin when the storm was coming. If that storm hits Miami, they would be MUCH better off in Jonesboro.

It pretty amazing watching people who are unaffiliated with Miami and don't know the totality of their circumstances opining that they know better than Miami officials about what is safest for Miami. 07-coffee3
Bottom line is whether the meaning of the word impossible has been affected by tge hurricane. I assert that it has not.

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09-06-2017 03:01 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:14 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

I'm starting to think that ArkST isn't going to get any money out of this. ESPN and ArkST can't second-guess Miami's decision that it is "impossible" under the circumstances to travel to Jonesboro. That decision can only be made by the school under the hurricane warning, not be second-guessed by anyone else.

And if it goes to court, I doubt a judge would second-guess either.

Plus, the optics of the situation are terrible for Ark State - Miami is under the gun of a major hurricane and you are going to try and squeeze $650k out of them because they have more important things to worry about than a football game? That will look like crass extortion.

The classy thing for Ark State to do is say "we understand Miami has bigger issues right now than a football game, we send our thoughts and prayers hoping that everyone at Miami is safe during the hurricane" and that's the end of it.
Not really concerned about optics or classy or what have you. More interested in contracts and legalities and not losing large amounts of money.

We are not wealthy. We can't just gift P5 programs a home game because of "feelz".



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You sure won't get any wealthier if you sue Miami. Legal and court costs will eat whatever you get. In addition, it would not surprise me if the ACC doesn't add AState to their schedules in the future if they sued one of their schools. ACC has a pretty long term memory, just ask UCONN. You have to decide, are you worried about legal contracts or losing future money. I think Miami should schedule Ark St in the future instead of canceling but I have personally not seen the contract, so I can't say what they are allowed to do.
I personally would not be bullied out of an attempt to obtain justice. But who knows whether the university would or not.

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09-06-2017 03:06 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
would Mia bail if game was VS P5 school?
doesn't UM go to Memphis to get out of Harms way, everything's paid for
perfect conditions to get ready for FSU
if some players want to stay with family, that's fine, there 100 player roster
09-06-2017 03:22 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 03:01 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston was practicing in Austin when the storm was coming. If that storm hits Miami, they would be MUCH better off in Jonesboro.

It pretty amazing watching people who are unaffiliated with Miami and don't know the totality of their circumstances opining that they know better than Miami officials about what is safest for Miami. 07-coffee3
Bottom line is whether the meaning of the word impossible has been affected by tge hurricane. I assert that it has not.

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As I said, good luck with your beliefs and assertions. 07-coffee3

FWIW, I read the statement by the ArkST athletic director - bad PR move, came across as caring more about football than the hurricane.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 03:32 PM by quo vadis.)
09-06-2017 03:31 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
Arkansas State would be stupid to push this issue.

They need P5 charity more than the P5 need easy wins.
09-06-2017 03:34 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:01 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston was practicing in Austin when the storm was coming. If that storm hits Miami, they would be MUCH better off in Jonesboro.

It pretty amazing watching people who are unaffiliated with Miami and don't know the totality of their circumstances opining that they know better than Miami officials about what is safest for Miami. 07-coffee3
Bottom line is whether the meaning of the word impossible has been affected by tge hurricane. I assert that it has not.

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As I said, good luck with your beliefs and assertions. 07-coffee3

FWIW, I read the statement by the ArkST athletic director - bad PR move, came across as caring more about football than the hurricane.

Quo, sometimes in this hissy fit generation it is more important to speak the truth than to pander to public perception. There are zero reasons this game could not be played. It's in a safe place. By the time the storm has passed there will be operational air transportation back at least to a destination close enough to bus in, if Coral Gables is even in condition to receive them.

The AD at Arkansas State just lost his money game for his home schedule. I can understand his dismay.

If there was actually something the players at Miami could do to actually help prepare for the storm maybe. But evacuation needs to occur prior to Saturday anyway. And if Irma is the bad girl she looks like, nobody can prepare for a Category 5. It's a roof ripper extraordinaire. In fact with the surge foundations are usually all that's left. So boarding the windows and taping glass is usually a waste of plywood and tape.
09-06-2017 03:44 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 03:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Arkansas State would be stupid to push this issue.

They need P5 charity more than the P5 need easy wins.
Easy to say until someone leaves you with no home game and won't fulfill their buyout obligation.

Pay us the $650k we are due and they can be on their way.

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09-06-2017 03:44 PM
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HeartOfDixie Online
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Post: #59
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 03:44 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Arkansas State would be stupid to push this issue.

They need P5 charity more than the P5 need easy wins.
Easy to say until someone leaves you with no home game and won't fulfill their buyout obligation.

Pay us the $650k we are due and they can be on their way.

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If you thought that would cost you other P5 payday games would you say the same thing?

No need to be shortsighted here.
09-06-2017 03:46 PM
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HeartOfDixie Online
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RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 03:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:01 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston was practicing in Austin when the storm was coming. If that storm hits Miami, they would be MUCH better off in Jonesboro.

It pretty amazing watching people who are unaffiliated with Miami and don't know the totality of their circumstances opining that they know better than Miami officials about what is safest for Miami. 07-coffee3
Bottom line is whether the meaning of the word impossible has been affected by tge hurricane. I assert that it has not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

As I said, good luck with your beliefs and assertions. 07-coffee3

FWIW, I read the statement by the ArkST athletic director - bad PR move, came across as caring more about football than the hurricane.

Quo, sometimes in this hissy fit generation it is more important to speak the truth than to pander to public perception. There are zero reasons this game could not be played. It's in a safe place. By the time the storm has passed there will be operational air transportation back at least to a destination close enough to bus in, if Coral Gables is even in condition to receive them.

The AD at Arkansas State just lost his money game for his home schedule. I can understand his dismay.

If there was actually something the players at Miami could do to actually help prepare for the storm maybe. But evacuation needs to occur prior to Saturday anyway. And if Irma is the bad girl she looks like, nobody can prepare for a Category 5. It's a roof ripper extraordinaire. In fact with the surge foundations are usually all that's left. So boarding the windows and taping glass is usually a waste of plywood and tape.

I think it is perfectly fair to say that the safety of the Miami players is in question considering they must also return home and the situation on the ground there is in question since the storm in question is actually unprecedented.

Arkansas State should walk away.
09-06-2017 03:48 PM
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