(09-05-2017 10:59 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I believe what wkuhilltopperfan point is is the same one I made after the first coaches poll came out. Some coaches in some conference use their votes to "help their conference" not who deserve top 25.

Just going off memory but I believe the SBC had 3 schools and the AAC had 5 or 6 schools getting votes in the top 25 and the MAC had at least a couple. While Tech was the only school in CUSA receiving votes.

So going by that...shouldn't CUSA do the same? If we are going to debate right or wrong...deserving not deserving, the case could have been made that Western deserved votes if 9 schools from the AAC and SBC got them.

CUSA coaches might just be honest on their voting while others are not. My personal opinion, CUSA coaches should be using the system just as other conference seem to do. While we all demean the top 25 poll...there is value being in one. Value to the school in it. Value to the conference the school plays in. Value to those conference schools playing that ranked team week after week.

So I believe wkuhilltopperfan is saying maybe CUSA coaches should play the system like others are doing. Not that Western or Tech or Middle or Marshall or any of our schools "deserve" a top 25 vote at this point. For most of those getting votes a case could be made they also don't "deserve" it.

Why don't we call ourselves P6(P7?) while we're at it?

Same mentality.

Not close to the same....

Voting for Western or Tech the two school in the CUSA championship game last year is no different than SBC coaches voting for Troy, App or ASU. Or AAC coaches voting for 6 of their schools or SEC schools voting for their 6-6 team from last year.

If you believe most (if not all) of these coaches know who is or isn't coming back on the teams they vote for. You are mistaken. Some might on a few but most don't.

Its mostly where they finished last season

(09-05-2017 11:02 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:57 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:54 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 05:03 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 03:32 PM)wkuhilltopperfan Wrote:  

Thoughtful response. If I had a vote, I wouldn't vote for anyone in this conference based on week 1.

As opposed to voting for who else instead?

Actual top 25 teams?

Such as? LOL!

The point is, this time of year you don't really know who's "Top 25" worthy yet. Losses last weekend by Texas, Baylor, TX A&M, etc....proved this point. At this point, WKU is as good a choice for Top 25 as any of those schools.

"LOL" all you want, if you're asking me to view all teams as equals prior to week 1, then you're right, but in that case voting at all for at least the first month of the season is ******* pointless.

But if if you're asking me to make an educated guess on the 25 best teams based on all available information, I'm going to look at how you finished last season to help fill the void in information after week 1.

To wit, of the 25 teams in the final AP poll of 2015, 20 of them were in the 2016 preseason top 25, of those 20, 13 also finished 2016 in the top 25.

Of the five teams that were in the 2015 final top 25 that were not in the 2016 preseason top 25(Utah, Navy, Wisconsin, WKU, Northwestern) all five of them were "recieving votes" in the 2016 preaeason poll.

Of the five teams that were in the the 2016 preseason top 25 that were not in the 2015 final rankings(Washington, UCLA, UGA, Louisville, USC) three of them made that the 2016 final poll.

Of the 30 teams that were in one or both of the 2015 final poll and the 2016 preseason poll, 16 of them were in the 2016 final poll(and four more finished 2016 recieving votes)

You can pretend that every team is a blank slate at the start of the season and argue that Bama's 17 point victory over FSU is no better than Washington's 16 point victory Rutgers, because "hey, how do we really know who's top 25 at the start of the season, right?" but I think we all know the truth there.

(09-06-2017 10:13 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 11:02 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:57 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:54 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 05:03 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Thoughtful response. If I had a vote, I wouldn't vote for anyone in this conference based on week 1.

As opposed to voting for who else instead?

Actual top 25 teams?

Such as? LOL!

The point is, this time of year you don't really know who's "Top 25" worthy yet. Losses last weekend by Texas, Baylor, TX A&M, etc....proved this point. At this point, WKU is as good a choice for Top 25 as any of those schools.

"LOL" all you want, if you're asking me to view all teams as equals prior to week 1, then you're right, but in that case voting at all for at least the first month of the season is ******* pointless.

But if if you're asking me to make an educated guess on the 25 best teams based on all available information, I'm going to look at how you finished last season to help fill the void in information after week 1.

To wit, of the 25 teams in the final AP poll of 2015, 20 of them were in the 2016 preseason top 25, of those 20, 13 also finished 2016 in the top 25.

Of the five teams that were in the 2015 final top 25 that were not in the 2016 preseason top 25(Utah, Navy, Wisconsin, WKU, Northwestern) all five of them were "recieving votes" in the 2016 preaeason poll.

Of the five teams that were in the the 2016 preseason top 25 that were not in the 2015 final rankings(Washington, UCLA, UGA, Louisville, USC) three of them made that the 2016 final poll.

Of the 30 teams that were in one or both of the 2015 final poll and the 2016 preseason poll, 16 of them were in the 2016 final poll(and four more finished 2016 recieving votes)

You can pretend that every team is a blank slate at the start of the season and argue that Bama's 17 point victory over FSU is no better than Washington's 16 point victory Rutgers, because "hey, how do we really know who's top 25 at the start of the season, right?" but I think we all know the truth there.

You take yourself waaaay too seriously.

When we beat Illinois, we'll drop in votes. It's the way it works.

(09-06-2017 07:30 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  You take yourself waaaay too seriously.

As always HD, your appraisal of me is one I take waaaay seriously.

You said that WKU is just as deserving of a top 25 vote as anyone, that's a logical fallacy and I simply illustrated why you were wrong.

The polls are always imperfect, this is especially true in the preseason and first few weeks of the season, but this idea that we have no idea who the top 25 teams are at the beginning of the season is simply not true.

I'm sorry if I put a higher value on pragmatism than you do, I'll try to work on that...

(09-06-2017 08:48 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  When we beat Illinois, we'll drop in votes. It's the way it works.

It's possible you could get jumped by other teams, but starting the season in the recieving votes category gives you a bit of protection from that type of movement, moreso than being the unheralded G5 team still trying to make believers out of people late in the season anyhow.