It's been decades since I played- and I respect the opinions of the younger guys on here- but I guess I don't understand the mindset of not wanting to play up in competition. We loved playing Texas, A&M, LSU, etc. because it was an opportunity to knock one of them off (and we occasionally did) and because we knew a bunch of their players and were not in awe of them at all. We went into every game thinking we were going to win it. I know things are different now, but I don't know why that would be.

I don't like seeing us at 0-4 or 1-3 either, but I don't subscribe to the thinking that recruits pay as much attention to the whocares bowl as they do to early season games against good P5 opponents--those games clearly have more eyeballs on them, more of an opportunity to get Sportscenter exposure, etc. I don't think the primary problem is the schedule (though multiple away games vs top 25 teams is obviously not ideal), the problem is that we haven't found a way to even be competitive in those games for, what, 10-15 years?

Until someone solves our revenue problem- and I agree with Illiniowl on this that the only chance we have to really improve our station involves massive spending by the university behind a 5-10 year plan that carries significant risk of not working-- then we have to keep scheduling these games just for the money they bring in. But bottom line to me is that if they are on the schedule we have to figure out a way to be competitive in them.

(08-24-2017 12:45 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  It's been decades since I played- and I respect the opinions of the younger guys on here- but I guess I don't understand the mindset of not wanting to play up in competition. We loved playing Texas, A&M, LSU, etc. because it was an opportunity to knock one of them off (and we occasionally did) and because we knew a bunch of their players and were not in awe of them at all. We went into every game thinking we were going to win it. I know things are different now, but I don't know why that would be.

I don't like seeing us at 0-4 or 1-3 either, but I don't subscribe to the thinking that recruits pay as much attention to the whocares bowl as they do to early season games against good P5 opponents--those games clearly have more eyeballs on them, more of an opportunity to get Sportscenter exposure, etc. I don't think the primary problem is the schedule (though multiple away games vs top 25 teams is obviously not ideal), the problem is that we haven't found a way to even be competitive in those games for, what, 10-15 years?

Until someone solves our revenue problem- and I agree with Illiniowl on this that the only chance we have to really improve our station involves massive spending by the university behind a 5-10 year plan that carries significant risk of not working-- then we have to keep scheduling these games just for the money they bring in. But bottom line to me is that if they are on the schedule we have to figure out a way to be competitive in them.

We aren't advocating for NEVER playing P5 opponents. Just limiting it to one a year, until the product on the field can be competitive. Then bump up to scheduling a lower echelon P5 that is more reasonable to play than adding another one that is a powerhouse in the running for a national championship. Edit: It's not that we are in "awe" of them, it's that there are limitations. I think it has been mentioned here previously, but the talent gap is way wider than what it was even 10-15 years ago. Let alone 20-30 years ago. We have to narrow that first, know our limitations and try to overcome them in the now. Not looking in the past to compare apples to oranges.

And you're right about recruits not paying as much attention to the whocares bowl as they do to early season games against good P5 opponents. Because they pay MUCH MORE attention to the bowl games than early season games. You have to remember with scheduling now, there's almost always a couple of premiere games on every week. The scheduling has changed from the 4 weeks straight of easy games for the big boys. However, in bowl season, each bowl is pretty much exclusive at that time. Easier to watch and not be distracted by another game. Plus the experience of going to a bowl is way more fun than going to 3 big P5 college towns a year. Think, what's better to hear "oh we played UT and LSU last year but got blown out by 30 in each game" or "we have been to 6 straight bowl games in a row"...to me it's not even a question which is better (the last option).

Rice has ample resources to fund the football (and athletic) program, it just chooses not to do so.

With respect to all of the opinions I'm going to disagree with (and those that I will agree with)...

OOC games mean nothing to winning the conference and in this day and age, the conference champ basically goes undefeated in conference... So if you're good enough to win CUSA, that means you're the best/highest ranked team in CUSA and that generally puts you around #50 in the country.

A top 50 team might lose, but doesn't get 'beat up' by a schedule that includes 3 top 20 teams and two more in the top 40. In fact, a top 50 team is competitive in most of those games and wins a few of them. The problem is that we're almost never a top 50 team, but instead we're closer to #100.... so while I'm not suggesting we schedule 5 'body bag' games... I AM suggesting that the value of playing 'on the big stage' (or in Australia) plus millions in revenue and losing (even badly) is not the polar opposite of playing a home/home in front of 15,000 or fewer against a team nobody knows or cares about.

MANY of us have suggested things like the following.... UTEP, UTSA, UNT, Tulane, SMU, UH, Navy, Army, Air Force as regulars. 1 from UT, A&M, LSU per year (likely away or at Reliant) and then find another large state school such as Michigan or OU that has a large alumni group in Houston but doesn't get to come here often and might be willing to do a home/home. Every one of that last group is going to be top 50... but only rarely will two be in the top 20. It will happen sometimes. It's only marginally dis-similar from what You suggested, Taylor.... and most of us would be fine with adding SWTx State or some other good, local 1AA (who would play at our house AND bring some fans) especially in those years where we're 'away' at the 'michigan or ou'

My problem with 'what we do' now is that we do functionally what everyone else in our league does in terms of schemes etc, but somehow we expect to consistently be better at it than schools that don't have our recruiting restrictions, ethics or academic commitments. Even if you eliminate the financial constraints, that's not a good business model.... even with the best people at the helm. That doesn't mean you have to do the wishbone... but you have to find SOME way to either coach differently, or recruit differently (or both).

I've suggested numerous avenues to attack all these obstacles as a fairly cohesive plan... and I won't waste time expanding on it here....

The kids we want can go anywhere they want. We have to give them a reason to want to come to Rice. We have to out-recruit (or out-coach) teams without out restrictions.

The biggest advantage we have is that we can give a UT/Stanford education without needing a guy to be a sure-fire 5 star just to get a look... and that regardless of WHOM we play, we should win more often (really against the same teams) as Duke and Kansas and Vandy.

We need to be recruiting guys who want to play football at UT (or other solid academic p5 schools with good football) but aren't quite good enough to play there and end up trying to decide between 'bowl games' at Mississippi State or 'academics' at Vandy. As usual, we seem to be engaging in part, but not ALL of the equation. We shouldn't be recruiting very often against other g5 schools. With rare exceptions, they aren't remotely similar to us academically and have no better 'path to the NFL' than we do. That's a big part of why I focus on Cali. ALL of the p5 schools out here are strong academically AND in football... if a kid doesn't get that nod, then they're looking at a MAJOR step down academically to stay remotely local. It's a $99 flight from LAX to IAH.

It's good to have former players on this board, especially those who have played recently and who have been part of the post SWC era of football at Rice. The schedule is impossible almost every year. It's good to play a local P5 opponent every year, but any more than that is bad for morale and it lessens the prospects of going to a bowl game. This year we have three OOC road games against opponents who are all very athletic. I'm more of a proponent of scheduling schools who have alums all over Houston, like SHSU, Texas State, and ULL. Keep the game with Prarie View, and maintain the rivalries with the service academies. These games would strike some interest. All this "body bag" madness has gone too far.

With better coaching and better recruiting we can play anybody. Remember Todd Graham almost beat UCLA in California and they had a really good team. Signing only two star recruits will not cut it.

(08-24-2017 07:03 PM)Ourland Wrote:  It's good to have former players on this board, especially those who have played recently and who have been part of the post SWC era of football at Rice. The schedule is impossible almost every year. It's good to play a local P5 opponent every year, but any more than that is bad for morale and it lessens the prospects of going to a bowl game. This year we have three OOC road games against opponents who are all very athletic. I'm more of a proponent of scheduling schools who have alums all over Houston, like SHSU, Texas State, and ULL. Keep the game with Prarie View, and maintain the rivalries with the service academies. These games would strike some interest. All this "body bag" madness has gone too far.

(08-24-2017 07:03 PM)Ourland Wrote:  It's good to have former players on this board, especially those who have played recently and who have been part of the post SWC era of football at Rice. The schedule is impossible almost every year. It's good to play a local P5 opponent every year, but any more than that is bad for morale and it lessens the prospects of going to a bowl game. This year we have three OOC road games against opponents who are all very athletic. I'm more of a proponent of scheduling schools who have alums all over Houston, like SHSU, Texas State, and ULL. Keep the game with Prarie View, and maintain the rivalries with the service academies. These games would strike some interest. All this "body bag" madness has gone too far.

I may be in the minority, but I don't want to see even more games against really crappy teams. We already get them shoved down our throat in our sh*tty conference. Games like the Stanford game this weekend are the only thing that even remotely interests me anymore.

(08-24-2017 08:05 PM)OldOwl Wrote:  With better coaching and better recruiting we can play anybody. Remember Todd Graham almost beat UCLA in California and they had a really good team.e]

The history of Rice is a litany of "almosts". I would rather hear about how we almost lost instead of how we almost won.

(08-25-2017 03:11 PM)garthmanuel Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 07:03 PM)Ourland Wrote:  It's good to have former players on this board, especially those who have played recently and who have been part of the post SWC era of football at Rice. The schedule is impossible almost every year. It's good to play a local P5 opponent every year, but any more than that is bad for morale and it lessens the prospects of going to a bowl game. This year we have three OOC road games against opponents who are all very athletic. I'm more of a proponent of scheduling schools who have alums all over Houston, like SHSU, Texas State, and ULL. Keep the game with Prarie View, and maintain the rivalries with the service academies. These games would strike some interest. All this "body bag" madness has gone too far.

I may be in the minority, but I don't want to see even more games against really crappy teams. We already get them shoved down our throat in our sh*tty conference. Games like the Stanford game this weekend are the only thing that even remotely interests me anymore.

I just want fans to come out to the stadium to spend money. Not many students show. Keep things local, and play every home game possible at Rice Stadium.Selling to NRG needs to be a thing of the past, especially against UofH.

OptimisticOwl ' Wrote:  The history of Rice is a litany of "almosts". I would rather hear about how we almost lost instead of how we almost won.

Ok! Here's some gooduns off the top of my head...

2006: Almost lost to ECU and UAB, but we didn't !!
2008: Almost lost to UH... but we didn't!!
2012: Almost didn't qualify for a bowl.. but then we won 6 straight
2013: Almost lost chance at title, but came through and WON conference title!
2014: almost lost Bowl-clinching game (UTEP?) but we won!
2016: almost lost after down 21 early... but we came back and won!

(08-26-2017 04:58 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

OptimisticOwl ' Wrote:  The history of Rice is a litany of "almosts". I would rather hear about how we almost lost instead of how we almost won.

Ok! Here's some gooduns off the top of my head...

2006: Almost lost to ECU and UAB, but we didn't !!
2008: Almost lost to UH... but we didn't!!
2012: Almost didn't qualify for a bowl.. but then we won 6 straight
2013: Almost lost chance at title, but came through and WON conference title!
2014: almost lost Bowl-clinching game (UTEP?) but we won!
2016: almost lost after down 21 early... but we came back and won!

Don't forget UT '94.

(08-26-2017 04:58 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

OptimisticOwl ' Wrote:  The history of Rice is a litany of "almosts". I would rather hear about how we almost lost instead of how we almost won.

Ok! Here's some gooduns off the top of my head...

2006: Almost lost to ECU and UAB, but we didn't !!
2008: Almost lost to UH... but we didn't!!
2012: Almost didn't qualify for a bowl.. but then we won 6 straight
2013: Almost lost chance at title, but came through and WON conference title!
2014: almost lost Bowl-clinching game (UTEP?) but we won!
2016: almost lost after down 21 early... but we came back and won!

2012: Almost lost to Kansas but Boswell hit the FG as time expired to win 25-24

Almost lost to Purdue one year as well!

(08-26-2017 10:31 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(08-26-2017 04:58 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

OptimisticOwl ' Wrote:  The history of Rice is a litany of "almosts". I would rather hear about how we almost lost instead of how we almost won.

Ok! Here's some gooduns off the top of my head...

2006: Almost lost to ECU and UAB, but we didn't !!
2008: Almost lost to UH... but we didn't!!
2012: Almost didn't qualify for a bowl.. but then we won 6 straight
2013: Almost lost chance at title, but came through and WON conference title!
2014: almost lost Bowl-clinching game (UTEP?) but we won!
2016: almost lost after down 21 early... but we came back and won!

2012: Almost lost to Kansas but Boswell hit the FG as time expired to win 25-24

Almost lost to Purdue but we blocked the FG!

(08-26-2017 11:40 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(08-26-2017 10:31 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(08-26-2017 04:58 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

OptimisticOwl ' Wrote:  The history of Rice is a litany of "almosts". I would rather hear about how we almost lost instead of how we almost won.

Ok! Here's some gooduns off the top of my head...

2006: Almost lost to ECU and UAB, but we didn't !!
2008: Almost lost to UH... but we didn't!!
2012: Almost didn't qualify for a bowl.. but then we won 6 straight
2013: Almost lost chance at title, but came through and WON conference title!
2014: almost lost Bowl-clinching game (UTEP?) but we won!
2016: almost lost after down 21 early... but we came back and won!

2012: Almost lost to Kansas but Boswell hit the FG as time expired to win 25-24

Almost lost to Purdue but we blocked the FG!

Almost lost to Charlotte last year but we scored a touchdown in the 4th!! Woo. Here's to almost loss today! Go Rice Owls!

(08-25-2017 11:00 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 03:11 PM)garthmanuel Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 07:03 PM)Ourland Wrote:  It's good to have former players on this board, especially those who have played recently and who have been part of the post SWC era of football at Rice. The schedule is impossible almost every year. It's good to play a local P5 opponent every year, but any more than that is bad for morale and it lessens the prospects of going to a bowl game. This year we have three OOC road games against opponents who are all very athletic. I'm more of a proponent of scheduling schools who have alums all over Houston, like SHSU, Texas State, and ULL. Keep the game with Prarie View, and maintain the rivalries with the service academies. These games would strike some interest. All this "body bag" madness has gone too far.

I may be in the minority, but I don't want to see even more games against really crappy teams. We already get them shoved down our throat in our sh*tty conference. Games like the Stanford game this weekend are the only thing that even remotely interests me anymore.

I just want fans to come out to the stadium to spend money. Not many students show. Keep things local, and play every home game possible at Rice Stadium.Selling to NRG needs to be a thing of the past, especially against UofH.

This is one of those tough things. 1800 students went to the home Baylor game last year! It was early in the year, and it was a big name school. The problem is there were about 15 students at home game #6. Would attendance it be better late in the season if we had 4 wins and looked like a competitive team on paper laster in the season? I think almost certainly. And I think having a few hundred students at most home games is better than having a ton just for a marquee matchup.

In my opinion the notoriously fickle Rice student body wants to be associated with a winning product even if we aren't playing great teams. We can debate why many students don't care about athletics and use that as a negative, or use it to our advantage. Maybe most students don't understand the traditional power structure of college football, but maybe that allows us to sell the product to students as simply "We have a winning record! Come to the game!"

(08-23-2017 06:28 AM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  I've said this on here ever since we graduated Taylor. Most don't listen on here and make snide comments (even though they never played a down in their life). Or think it's the only way to raise revenue as a program. Which is a valid point but the school doesn't adequately fund the program in relation to the school's resources anyways. Very few on here are willing to listen to guys who have been there in the last decade and have a reasonable discussion.

Great points. All valid but you also have to accept coaching sucks. Nice guy as Bailiff is labeled doesn't make him good. So we can agree with you that played now accept the stats and facts that Bailiff should have been fired years ago. Btw Karlgaard is not far behind

(08-26-2017 08:27 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 06:28 AM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  I've said this on here ever since we graduated Taylor. Most don't listen on here and make snide comments (even though they never played a down in their life). Or think it's the only way to raise revenue as a program. Which is a valid point but the school doesn't adequately fund the program in relation to the school's resources anyways. Very few on here are willing to listen to guys who have been there in the last decade and have a reasonable discussion.

Great points. All valid but you also have to accept coaching sucks. Nice guy as Bailiff is labeled doesn't make him good. So we can agree with you that played now accept the stats and facts that Bailiff should have been fired years ago. Btw Karlgaard is not far behind

Why doesn't everyone understand this was about the experience for the kids?!? They got to throw up new foods and see koalas. That's the point.

We should not be playing any P5 schools. They are too mean and aggressive for us and they may hurt us and make us cry to Mommy.

(08-27-2017 01:07 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(08-26-2017 08:27 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 06:28 AM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  I've said this on here ever since we graduated Taylor. Most don't listen on here and make snide comments (even though they never played a down in their life). Or think it's the only way to raise revenue as a program. Which is a valid point but the school doesn't adequately fund the program in relation to the school's resources anyways. Very few on here are willing to listen to guys who have been there in the last decade and have a reasonable discussion.

Great points. All valid but you also have to accept coaching sucks. Nice guy as Bailiff is labeled doesn't make him good. So we can agree with you that played now accept the stats and facts that Bailiff should have been fired years ago. Btw Karlgaard is not far behind

Why doesn't everyone understand this was about the experience for the kids?!? They got to throw up new foods and see koalas. That's the point.

(08-22-2017 11:09 PM)McHargue Wrote:  This is a long post, but I feel like it needs to be addressed in advance of this season and the heinous schedule we're about to play.

I just want to point out what a joke our non conference scheduling is and has been for as long as I've been around the program. Whoring out your football team to cover the financial losses of everyone in the athletic department (minus baseball) is not a good model and I'm not sure how many more seasons we have to have of starting 2-4 or 1-5 before someone fixes it.

Go back and look at our non conference schedules for the last 10 years and find me a season that sets us up for success. We should be playing 1 elite team (Texas, TA&M, etc.) 2 Mac/Mountain West/Sun Belt teams, and one 1AA team. Every single year. We are crippling these kids chances of success when they don't have a home game until the last week of September, and have to play 3 power 5 teams on the road. If they were good enough to beat 3 power 5 teams they wouldn't be at Rice!

There are plenty of things about Rice that you can make excuses about that are unfair to the school and the athletic department, but this is not one of them. We give ourselves little to no chance for early season success every single year, and we look up at the midseason point at 1-5 and wonder why. Go lose your first 3 games by double digits and them tell them to shake it off for conference play and see how that goes. They have no confidence by week 4 because you flew them all over the country to get their a$$es handed to them for some cash, and then we're scrambling in weeks 11 and 12 to maybe make an awful bowl.

A lot is made of "quality wins" on this board. You have to build to that. You don't recruit the kind of talent it takes to win those types of games by scheduling the way we do and praying for a 7 or 8 win season. Otherwise wait around every 5 or 6 years and have 19 returning starters and 25 seniors and maybe you'll have a chance, if your coach can survive that long. So whatever happens at the coaching position after this season, don't expect some drastic turn around if we're still scheduling the way we have been for years.

(08-27-2017 01:07 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(08-26-2017 08:27 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 06:28 AM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  I've said this on here ever since we graduated Taylor. Most don't listen on here and make snide comments (even though they never played a down in their life). Or think it's the only way to raise revenue as a program. Which is a valid point but the school doesn't adequately fund the program in relation to the school's resources anyways. Very few on here are willing to listen to guys who have been there in the last decade and have a reasonable discussion.

Great points. All valid but you also have to accept coaching sucks. Nice guy as Bailiff is labeled doesn't make him good. So we can agree with you that played now accept the stats and facts that Bailiff should have been fired years ago. Btw Karlgaard is not far behind

Why doesn't everyone understand this was about the experience for the kids?!? They got to throw up new foods and see koalas. That's the point.

Maybe you are being facetious. But, if not, whatever the experience was for them, they were there representing our University. And, in the words of Jonathan Vilma, they stunk.

(08-24-2017 11:04 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 10:42 AM)McHargue Wrote:  2018 we play at Hawaii, at Wake Forest, at LSU and "home" (likely at NRG) against UH. I think whoever scheduled that should not be allowed to work in college athletics ever again.

08/25 - Prairie View A&M
09/01 - Houston
09/08 - at Hawaii
09/15 - at Wake Forest
11/17 - at LSU

Hypothetically, opening up with 2 home games is a nice start to the season (if the UH game is actually placed at HRS), and PV should be an easy win. Going from @Hawaii on 9/9 (assuming a sunday departure) to @Wake on 9/14 (arriving on friday before game day) with just a few full days in Houston sounds pretty hellish.

I agree with Big here.

You don't have the luxury of picking 'whatever' schedule you want.

Here we have the 1-AA at home to theoretically get confidence up at home....
then a local rival we beat with some regularity 2 miles from Campus
then an 'experience' trip to Hawaii where we have also had success
then a potentially winnable p5 game like Kansas or Purdue
We could be 4-0 going into LSU, and while LSU could be/often is outstanding, if we even remotely 'show up' we are now defined by whom we lost to, not whom we beat. What I mean by that is that if we lose by 21 to #15 LSU and then run the table in CUSA, who is to say we aren't worthy of the top 20 by seasons end?

You want to build a program, that's how you do it.... Of course I doubt that we expected to have +/- 12 wins in the 3 years after having 25 wins over 3 years, now twice it seems.