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BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
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BucNut22 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-25-2017 12:15 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  I will give Carter the benefit of the doubt due to the fact that his roles so far at UT and ETSU has been largely fundraising. He sounds to me like a politician, and just comes off the wrong way to me. Part of that may be the contrast to what I perceive as a very authentic Dr. Sander especially on the videos he makes.

However, my biggest concerns are 1) his connections outside of the Tennessee area and 2) my fear that he will increase ticket prices above market value. He will have to make coaching hires in football and men's basketball in the next few years. I expect the football hire to come from within the program. The basketball coach is the one that I care most about, and to answer poster's question, no I don't think Steve Forbes would have been hired if Carter was the AD (or if Dr. Noland wasn't the President). I hope that Carter is humble enough to seek Sander's input on that hire.

To be clear, I do think it is wonderful to have someone in the position that truly cares about the university and has broad local public support. I don't see him leaving for another institution, and I do think that he will be able to raise the funds needed to keep us competitive and make further infrastructure improvements. I would like to see him break ground on an outdoor track and the long desired upgrades to Thomas Stadium. But don't raise ticket prices above the current levels for any sport!
You're fighting against the current if you expect ticket prices not to rise. And that includes had Dr. Sander continued as AD. I agree prices should be within market but you have to consider the facility upgrades, capital projects, as well as new coaching hires and the raises required to keep said coaches. All of which represent continually rising costs.

Competing at a championship level while upgrading facilities comes at great cost, fund raising only goes so far.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2017 01:20 PM by BucNut22.)
08-25-2017 01:19 PM
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etsubuc Offline
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RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
My wife and I earn about 3x the average family income of this region, and those around me consider me to be the ETSU sports nut. However, even we struggle to justify paying 4 season ticket prices for multiple sports. The latest basketball price increase resulted in my cancelling womens basketball. The next rise in anything will result in cancelling football but keeping mens basketball. IMO mens basketball is the only sport that the product justifies current ticket prices. And if Carter thinks the local market is as passionate and wealthy as those in Knoxville and/or his social network, he will face a different reality.
08-25-2017 02:13 PM
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Buc76 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
You are always whinning about ticket prices. Nobody is forcing you to buy them.
08-25-2017 10:41 PM
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queenladybug817 Offline
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Post: #24
BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
What was the percentage increase in the season ticket price for basketball? I know the price for women's tickets didn't go up, so I assume you meant men's. I couldn't remember what we paid last year and I'm too lazy to go look.


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08-26-2017 08:45 AM
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queenladybug817 Offline
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Post: #25
BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-26-2017 08:45 AM)queenladybug817 Wrote:  What was the percentage increase in the season ticket price for basketball? I know the price for women's tickets didn't go up, so I assume you meant men's. I couldn't remember what we paid last year and I'm too lazy to go look.


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So I got un-lazy and looked at my account. The actual ticket price for our basketball season tickets didn't change from 2015-16 season to 2017-2018 for either men's or women's basketball. Because the account history is so weird with the donation part, I can't tell if that's where the increase was that you see. But I don't think that went up all that much for season tickets either.

My only increase was getting 3 seats for men's basketball instead of 2. We've also regularly bought single game tickets and those haven't gone up, except for the bigger games like against UT and even that was an expected concept and not outrageous if one has ever priced tickets for other larger NCAA events. Heck even the SoCon tournament prices are reasonable enough compared to other conferences.

Maybe I come too much from seeing how expensive it was to go to larger schools games and I'm just happy for the lower price to not really see an outrageous jump in prices here. Comparable seats to mine at Freedom Hall would be thousands a year at larger schools, if someone could even get them. Our top dollar premium seats for basketball aren't much more costly than midlevel seats other places.
08-26-2017 09:04 AM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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Post: #26
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-25-2017 10:41 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  You are always whinning about ticket prices. Nobody is forcing you to buy them.

While of course you're right, don't forget the fiasco in 1993-4(?) (the time when they gouged everybody, trying to piggyback on the glory years). They can't afford another episode/era like that. (They couldn't afford that one, either, but they realized it far too late.) I would argue that it took 10-15 years, if not more, to get over those mistakes. Fans will, at some point, vote with their pocketbook, and walk away. History (not just ETSU's history) tells us that virtually always the recognition of the seller is usually quite slow. While there are times it may not seem like it if you're in the bubble (and I mean the ETSU Athletic Administration bubble, not a financial-type bubble), price elasticity is always a "thing", even in this arena.

This is the time to *reward* fans, by keeping them engaged - not driving them away. Word to the wise.
08-26-2017 12:00 PM
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etsubuc Offline
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Post: #27
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
2015/16 season for women's basketball: $50.00. For men's basketball, Gold- $300, silver-$250, bronze- $175, Upper baseline- $100

Last season and this coming season for women's basketball: $75. For men's basketball, Gold- $325, silver- $275, bronze- $185, upper baseline- $110.

For 4 silver level seats and 4 women's basketball tickets, the price went up from $1,200 to $1,400 the year after they added football, which costs me $400 for the cheapest tickets available. Honestly, I was most upset about the 50% increase in women's basketball ticket prices.

Again, it just gets to the point where most people have to make priorities on which sports to support with their tickets or changing which levels of tickets they can buy. I want to support the program with donations such at the Football Fund (which I did), want to attend the games, and want to donate to academics also. But its most important to keep the wife from killing me for spending all our money on ETSU :)

But that is just one man's opinion and situation. I didn't mean for this thread to be hijacked by me complaining about ticket prices. I simply want the new athletic administration to keep the fans in mind. My take is that if you make ticket prices affordable, more fans will be able to attend, the fan experience will be greater, and this will generate longer-term revenue from people who have loyalty to the university and had a blast attending athletic events while students.
(This post was last modified: 08-26-2017 12:41 PM by etsubuc.)
08-26-2017 12:40 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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Post: #28
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-26-2017 12:40 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  I simply want the new athletic administration to keep the fans in mind. My take is that if you make ticket prices affordable, more fans will be able to attend, the fan experience will be greater, and this will generate longer-term revenue from people who have loyalty to the university and had a blast attending athletic events while students.

*That* is hitting the nail on the head about as well as it can be hit. Rewarding fans now, and allowing new ones to come on board, is a MUCH better strategy than "getting it while you can". We know that doesn't bode well for the long run.
08-26-2017 01:43 PM
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Buc76 Offline
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RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
If you have the magic formula to provide 1st class facilities and 1st class amenities with small budgets, please reveal them to all athletic departments. They will love you.

ETSU tried the cheap ticket way throughout the last administration and look at the results, pathetic.

Small budgets don't allow for improvments, good coaches or recruitment of good athletes.

Do you want to go back to five years ago, mediocrity, no football, old looking campus, no administration leadership or vision ?

The ETSU campus, the students and the fan base has been energized. Definitely not solely because of ticket prices. But they do play a major tole in supplying the money for the needed amenities that makes a difference in providing a product that the fan will support.

Record fund raising, record revenues in all ticketed sports, renovated or new facilites, new facilities and more renovations in planning stage and eight championships this past year, a far cry for the cheapo past.
08-26-2017 06:40 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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Post: #30
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-26-2017 06:40 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  If you have the magic formula to provide 1st class facilities and 1st class amenities with small budgets, please reveal them to all athletic departments. They will love you.

ETSU tried the cheap ticket way throughout the last administration and look at the results, pathetic.

Small budgets don't allow for improvments, good coaches or recruitment of good athletes.

Do you want to go back to five years ago, mediocrity, no football, old looking campus, no administration leadership or vision ?

The ETSU campus, the students and the fan base has been energized. Definitely not solely because of ticket prices. But they do play a major tole in supplying the money for the needed amenities that makes a difference in providing a product that the fan will support.

Record fund raising, record revenues in all ticketed sports, renovated or new facilites, new facilities and more renovations in planning stage and eight championships this past year, a far cry for the cheapo past.

Who said anything about a small budget? We've got a coaching staff (I'm pretty sure) a fair amount larger than ever before. We've got a brand-new high-quality stadium. We've had many people generously donate large chunks of money. We've got a significant student contribution now. This football budget (without looking it up) is *bound* to be MUCH larger than when we dropped football, or at anytime before then, even if one adjusts for inflation.

Methinks you may be under the mistaken impression that ticket sales are a large part of the athletic funding formula. It *may* bigger now than it was (because of increased ticket prices and the success of the basketball program), but it's a distinct minority of the overall income for the program(s). We've discussed this before. Some people used to think the reason the team was shut down back in 2003 was because of poor attendance. While it's not wrong to say that, that was NOT the financial reason. We discussed that ad infinitum on the old board. I believe at that time ticket sales (for football) were somewhere in the neighborhood of at most 5-10% (don't quote me on that; that's purely from memory) of the income side of the equation.

Without digging it all up, ticket sales are at most the fourth-most source of funding for football. Student fees are #1; contributions are #2 or 3; ETSU internal funding is #2 or 3.

Ok, I did spend a few minutes poking around. Here's from The Tennessean, Apr. 17, 2016, so only 1 year out-of-date:

Quote:The majority of East Tennessee State's athletic revenue comes from the university and its students. Of its $15,909,297 total operating budget in 2015, $6,908,494 came from student fees and $5,092,930 came from direct institutional support for a combined total of $12,001,424. ETSU athletics claimed another $1,760,517 in indirect institutional support. The athletic department made just $602,680 in ticket sales and $1,252,217 in donations.The majority of East Tennessee State's athletic revenue comes from the university and its students. Of its $15,909,297 total operating budget in 2015, $6,908,494 came from student fees and $5,092,930 came from direct institutional support for a combined total of $12,001,424. ETSU athletics claimed another $1,760,517 in indirect institutional support. The athletic department made just $602,680 in ticket sales and $1,252,217 in donations.

OK......so $606K out of $15.9 million is under 4%. And yes, it's possible it'll be more this year, although with all the donations, it might actually be less.

So........think about that. Does it really matter much whether/when they tack on extra amounts of monies for parking, etc., nickel-and-diming would be fans?
Why not *encourage* attendance instead of discouraging it? That's exactly etsubuc's point -- you'll win much bigger in the long run if you build your attendance base by making it accessible and affordable. That will pay off BIG TIME down the road. I can't tell you how many *FORMER* fans completely shut off giving to ETSU, and attending ETSU games, after the '93-'94(?) shenanigans. AND THEY'RE STILL GONE. I know them; quite a few. Others on this board have made the same point. ETSU has likely lost what would have been 10-50X the income that they gained from making the extortionary demands they did on season-ticket holders back then.

To be clear, I'm not bitching about the current ticket prices. I think they're slightly high, but they sold well, so that's that. I, like etsubuc, am more afraid of what comes next with Scott Carter. We are most certainly at an inflection point here, thanks to Noland and Sander. We can keep the train/ship moving on up, or we can 'fumble' this momentum by gouging.
(I happen to know at least 3 people who were planning on buying season tickets, but didn't because of the parking costs. They now say they might not come to any games, unless they can find other transportation methods. I'm just sayin'. And these are people that can afford it - they're just upset at the principle of the thing.)
08-26-2017 10:55 PM
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Efan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
How much is parking now? Either $25 or $50 for the season which I don't think is bad.
08-27-2017 08:02 AM
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Buc76 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
Three people aren't coming because of parking costs. I hope that was a joke.

There are hundreds of parking spaces for free.

What's their next excuse for not coming. To far to walk?
08-27-2017 10:24 AM
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Buc76 Offline
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RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
Premium seat bond funding and Premium seat gifts are responsible for 4.8 million of the cost ( approx 26 million ) of building the first phase of the stadium.
08-27-2017 12:45 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-27-2017 12:45 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  Premium seat bond funding and Premium seat gifts are responsible for 4.8 million of the cost ( approx 26 million ) of building the first phase of the stadium.


Is there a Phase II or not?
08-27-2017 06:09 PM
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brock20 Offline
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RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
I helped coach and sponsor a recreational adult league team with a guy who gave some good advise. While he had the money to pay for the cost of everything, he made the players pay for their uniforms. The reason he did this is because if you just give them a jersey, they don't have anything invested in the team and can just quit coming at any time; but if they have to invest and put some money in the team then it is harder for them to just get up and walk away.

The point of this is if something is free or cheap, a person is not invested and will just walk away any time. If you pay for season tickets to an ETSU sport, you are making a commitment and are invested in the program and feel like you need to be there. There is a sweet spot and I think at this point they have somewhat found it. If I was nitpicking I think there needs to be a cheaper football season ticket option (~$75) and I think the upper baseline season tickets for basketball should be cheaper.
08-28-2017 08:19 AM
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Buc76 Offline
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RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
Why cheaper tickets? Five dollars for a basketball ticket!!!

They sold out their football season tickets.

They have already sold more season tickets to basketball than last year.

I constantly see posts on this board wanting more and more amenities, renovations and new facilities. Where does the money come from to buy your wish list?

The standard answer is "some big donor should pay the bill". Well big donors will help but if the fans don't support the teams, the big boys won't.

So much of the driving force for 'big donor' money is attached to advertising, not 'good will'. No big crowd, little interest, little donation. Big crowds, big interest, big donation. Big crowds and big donations go hand in hand.
08-28-2017 09:41 AM
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brock20 Offline
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RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-28-2017 09:41 AM)Buc76 Wrote:  Why cheaper tickets? Five dollars for a basketball ticket!!!

They sold out their football season tickets.

They have already sold more season tickets to basketball than last year.

I constantly see posts on this board wanting more and more amenities, renovations and new facilities. Where does the money come from to buy your wish list?

The standard answer is "some big donor should pay the bill". Well big donors will help but if the fans don't support the teams, the big boys won't.

So much of the driving force for 'big donor' money is attached to advertising, not 'good will'. No big crowd, little interest, little donation. Big crowds, big interest, big donation. Big crowds and big donations go hand in hand.

Who are you talking to? I pretty much agreed with you that the prices aren't that bad but that doesn't mean its perfect. There is no "family package" (2 adults and 2 youth tickets) for any of the sports. And those upper baseline seats in basketball aren't great and you can get those tickets on game day every time. Season tickets for those are $110; you save $10 buying season tickets as opposed to buying on game day. That does not encourage buying season tickets. Those would be a perfect place for a family plan.
08-28-2017 10:16 AM
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etsubuc Offline
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Post: #38
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
I don't remember the exact timeframe, but I do remember when we played basketball in the Dome during Bartow's final years we had a family package of 2 adults and 2 kids for $20. I did this very frequently before I was in the position to be season ticket holders. The seats were the first 2 rows of the permanent Dome seating, off to the sides. At the time, that package was the difference in me attending or listening to Jay on the radio (which I enjoyed doing). Now I have family members who are in a similar financial position that I was in then, and they simply watch it on the HD quality ESPN3. I think they attended 2 games last season, but would have attended several more had this type of package existed.
08-28-2017 11:21 AM
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BucNut22 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
(08-28-2017 11:21 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I don't remember the exact timeframe, but I do remember when we played basketball in the Dome during Bartow's final years we had a family package of 2 adults and 2 kids for $20. I did this very frequently before I was in the position to be season ticket holders. The seats were the first 2 rows of the permanent Dome seating, off to the sides. At the time, that package was the difference in me attending or listening to Jay on the radio (which I enjoyed doing). Now I have family members who are in a similar financial position that I was in then, and they simply watch it on the HD quality ESPN3. I think they attended 2 games last season, but would have attended several more had this type of package existed.
2 kids and 2 adults for $20 is the kind of promotion you run when you are desperate and just need butts in seats. You indicated earlier that you want ETSU in market value. A family of four attending a game for $20 is NOT market price for a winning & successful program. ETSU has only ADDED costs since the end of the Bartow tenure. Athletic costs rarely go down, they only ever increase.

While I agree with Doc that ticket sales are far from THE primary source of revenue, they play a prominent role in the budget. Between the addition of football, facility upgrades, and coaching salaries for actual competent coaches, ETSU continues and will continue to require increased revenue sources. One of those sources is ticket sales. You are free to yearn for the football-less Bartow years, complete with $20 ticket promotions.

Success in athletics come at great costs.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2017 12:46 PM by BucNut22.)
08-28-2017 12:45 PM
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Buc76 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: BREAKING NEWS: Dr Sander retires...Scott Carter takes over
Thanks for your comments bucnut22, you get it.
08-28-2017 01:01 PM
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