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JRsec Offline
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Post: #61
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-13-2017 01:38 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 07:45 AM)XLance Wrote:  The B1G won't make the first move either. I believe that it's all on Texas' shoulders.
There have been several stories that have been recycled about Carolina and Georgia Tech going to the B1G. Maybe nothing to them but it might be enough to slow down Delany, because there is enough validity or possibility of validity to make the B1G pause on Oklahoma. (I will try to put something together soon to explain).
There are a lot of posters/writers on somebody's payroll....the "positioning" is more subtle than in 2010 and 2015, but it has been persistent. I think that is because nobody really expects any movement before 2023 (unless that date has just been thrown out there to misdirect folks away from 2019 and the start of the ACCN).

I can't see Texas sitting around some table in 2024 basically looking around at the other conferences and declaring imperiously 'what am I bid'. This is basically a negotiation between FOX and ESPN. While I have no animus toward the Sooners, they are delusional if they think Delany is going to admit them into the B1G without Texas.

(09-13-2017 10:19 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Now this I agree with totally. There are B1G propagandists posing as Kansas and Oklahoma posters who are carefully crafting a narrative about those two programs, Oklahoma in particular.

But the truth is OU is nowhere near AAU status and would be at the bottom of the Big 10 academically. I think 2019 is the date and have said so. The networks don't want outside streaming services bidding on rights so they will rework existing contracts before 2024-5. 2023 is cutting it too close. 2019-20 is just about right for FOX and ESPN to rework existing contracts with a lengthy extension. So it's also perfect for realignment. From an ESPN perspective there would be nothing better than a feint of GaTech or UNC being available.

I'm sure Kansas and Oklahoma would be targets of the B1G if the ACC was truly, and known to be, off the table.

Also I don't see Texas making that move to the B1G. There simply isn't anyone there that they've had history with. Nebraska they knew for what, about a decade and half? Oklahoma doesn't really have that much in common with them either outside of Nebraska.

So I totally believe something is afoot, and that the details have already been worked out, probably at the time the B12 was interviewing all of those G5 hopefuls. We'll see.

I lurk on the Acre Takers website and I'm amazed at the posters who believe that OU can flip B1G membership into becoming the next UVA. I don't believe they are plants or sock puppets, I just think that they have a complete misunderstanding of the B1G, the AAU and any associated academic pedigree.

I just feel that realignment is going to be a brokering between the distributors and producers on how dividends are redistributed from asset consolidation.

I don't disagree that the networks will try to work it out but remember, in 2010 ESPN tried to scoop Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame right out from under FOX's nose. The SEC was going to get A&M an Missouri and the ACC was to surrender N.C. State and Va Tech to make room for the other 4. When Tobacco Road figured out that they would lose political control of the ACC they balked. That's want created the need for holding Texas in place (LHN) made Oklahoma sign a T3 with FOX and caused ESPN to overpay Kansas for T3 to hold them. It's also why N.D. got away with getting a partial deal. And it is why the ACCN has been so late in materializing. If they had a western quad of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Louisville or Miami then they would have had the cachet to warrant a network, especially with the Irish all in. The original plan was supposedly that the ACCN would open the year after the SECN and the two might have been bundled.

So I'm not sold that the ACC is really in that great of grace with ESPN.

If the deal is brokered then certainly FOX will land a couple of the brands. Hence the Oklahoma / Kansas talk. Oklahoma folks push that agenda because their administration fans the flames. Why? If the SEC has Oklahoma we have all of Texas in the most economical fashion outside of taking the Horns. Push hard that they are headed to the B1G and maybe we offer Oklahoma State too.

If ESPN feels comfortable that it has Texas on the leash then I expect them to go all out to land OU for the SEC. If that happens they know they get Kansas too! The Big 10 can't monetize Kansas without either Texas or Oklahoma to cover them.

I don't think there will be any cooperation between FOX and ESPN. I think ESPN will try to still land all of the brands from the Big 12. And I think they will push especially hard to get all of the Texas teams into either the ACC, AAC, or SEC so they can hold the hammer on add rates in that state. They already have S.M.U. and Houston in the AAC where they also hold Tulsa.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech in the SEC. Notre Dame, West Virginia, and possibly T.C.U. and Baylor in the ACC. That covers everything that ESPN truly cares about. Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Colorado State or UNLV then may be attractive to the PAC.

The only way I see ESPN working with FOX is if ESPN can land a bigger chunk of the Big 10. And I don't see that as being too likely.
09-13-2017 02:36 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-13-2017 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 01:38 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 07:45 AM)XLance Wrote:  The B1G won't make the first move either. I believe that it's all on Texas' shoulders.
There have been several stories that have been recycled about Carolina and Georgia Tech going to the B1G. Maybe nothing to them but it might be enough to slow down Delany, because there is enough validity or possibility of validity to make the B1G pause on Oklahoma. (I will try to put something together soon to explain).
There are a lot of posters/writers on somebody's payroll....the "positioning" is more subtle than in 2010 and 2015, but it has been persistent. I think that is because nobody really expects any movement before 2023 (unless that date has just been thrown out there to misdirect folks away from 2019 and the start of the ACCN).

I can't see Texas sitting around some table in 2024 basically looking around at the other conferences and declaring imperiously 'what am I bid'. This is basically a negotiation between FOX and ESPN. While I have no animus toward the Sooners, they are delusional if they think Delany is going to admit them into the B1G without Texas.

(09-13-2017 10:19 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Now this I agree with totally. There are B1G propagandists posing as Kansas and Oklahoma posters who are carefully crafting a narrative about those two programs, Oklahoma in particular.

But the truth is OU is nowhere near AAU status and would be at the bottom of the Big 10 academically. I think 2019 is the date and have said so. The networks don't want outside streaming services bidding on rights so they will rework existing contracts before 2024-5. 2023 is cutting it too close. 2019-20 is just about right for FOX and ESPN to rework existing contracts with a lengthy extension. So it's also perfect for realignment. From an ESPN perspective there would be nothing better than a feint of GaTech or UNC being available.

I'm sure Kansas and Oklahoma would be targets of the B1G if the ACC was truly, and known to be, off the table.

Also I don't see Texas making that move to the B1G. There simply isn't anyone there that they've had history with. Nebraska they knew for what, about a decade and half? Oklahoma doesn't really have that much in common with them either outside of Nebraska.

So I totally believe something is afoot, and that the details have already been worked out, probably at the time the B12 was interviewing all of those G5 hopefuls. We'll see.

I lurk on the Acre Takers website and I'm amazed at the posters who believe that OU can flip B1G membership into becoming the next UVA. I don't believe they are plants or sock puppets, I just think that they have a complete misunderstanding of the B1G, the AAU and any associated academic pedigree.

I just feel that realignment is going to be a brokering between the distributors and producers on how dividends are redistributed from asset consolidation.

I don't disagree that the networks will try to work it out but remember, in 2010 ESPN tried to scoop Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame right out from under FOX's nose. The SEC was going to get A&M an Missouri and the ACC was to surrender N.C. State and Va Tech to make room for the other 4. When Tobacco Road figured out that they would lose political control of the ACC they balked. That's want created the need for holding Texas in place (LHN) made Oklahoma sign a T3 with FOX and caused ESPN to overpay Kansas for T3 to hold them. It's also why N.D. got away with getting a partial deal. And it is why the ACCN has been so late in materializing. If they had a western quad of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Louisville or Miami then they would have had the cachet to warrant a network, especially with the Irish all in. The original plan was supposedly that the ACCN would open the year after the SECN and the two might have been bundled.

So I'm not sold that the ACC is really in that great of grace with ESPN.

If the deal is brokered then certainly FOX will land a couple of the brands. Hence the Oklahoma / Kansas talk. Oklahoma folks push that agenda because their administration fans the flames. Why? If the SEC has Oklahoma we have all of Texas in the most economical fashion outside of taking the Horns. Push hard that they are headed to the B1G and maybe we offer Oklahoma State too.

If ESPN feels comfortable that it has Texas on the leash then I expect them to go all out to land OU for the SEC. If that happens they know they get Kansas too! The Big 10 can't monetize Kansas without either Texas or Oklahoma to cover them.

I don't think there will be any cooperation between FOX and ESPN. I think ESPN will try to still land all of the brands from the Big 12. And I think they will push especially hard to get all of the Texas teams into either the ACC, AAC, or SEC so they can hold the hammer on add rates in that state. They already have S.M.U. and Houston in the AAC where they also hold Tulsa.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech in the SEC. Notre Dame, West Virginia, and possibly T.C.U. and Baylor in the ACC. That covers everything that ESPN truly cares about. Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Colorado State or UNLV then may be attractive to the PAC.

The only way I see ESPN working with FOX is if ESPN can land a bigger chunk of the Big 10. And I don't see that as being too likely.

I agree with everything except for Baylor. Cincinnati would head to the ACC and Baylor would slot into the AAC.
09-13-2017 02:58 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-13-2017 02:58 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 01:38 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 07:45 AM)XLance Wrote:  The B1G won't make the first move either. I believe that it's all on Texas' shoulders.
There have been several stories that have been recycled about Carolina and Georgia Tech going to the B1G. Maybe nothing to them but it might be enough to slow down Delany, because there is enough validity or possibility of validity to make the B1G pause on Oklahoma. (I will try to put something together soon to explain).
There are a lot of posters/writers on somebody's payroll....the "positioning" is more subtle than in 2010 and 2015, but it has been persistent. I think that is because nobody really expects any movement before 2023 (unless that date has just been thrown out there to misdirect folks away from 2019 and the start of the ACCN).

I can't see Texas sitting around some table in 2024 basically looking around at the other conferences and declaring imperiously 'what am I bid'. This is basically a negotiation between FOX and ESPN. While I have no animus toward the Sooners, they are delusional if they think Delany is going to admit them into the B1G without Texas.

(09-13-2017 10:19 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Now this I agree with totally. There are B1G propagandists posing as Kansas and Oklahoma posters who are carefully crafting a narrative about those two programs, Oklahoma in particular.

But the truth is OU is nowhere near AAU status and would be at the bottom of the Big 10 academically. I think 2019 is the date and have said so. The networks don't want outside streaming services bidding on rights so they will rework existing contracts before 2024-5. 2023 is cutting it too close. 2019-20 is just about right for FOX and ESPN to rework existing contracts with a lengthy extension. So it's also perfect for realignment. From an ESPN perspective there would be nothing better than a feint of GaTech or UNC being available.

I'm sure Kansas and Oklahoma would be targets of the B1G if the ACC was truly, and known to be, off the table.

Also I don't see Texas making that move to the B1G. There simply isn't anyone there that they've had history with. Nebraska they knew for what, about a decade and half? Oklahoma doesn't really have that much in common with them either outside of Nebraska.

So I totally believe something is afoot, and that the details have already been worked out, probably at the time the B12 was interviewing all of those G5 hopefuls. We'll see.

I lurk on the Acre Takers website and I'm amazed at the posters who believe that OU can flip B1G membership into becoming the next UVA. I don't believe they are plants or sock puppets, I just think that they have a complete misunderstanding of the B1G, the AAU and any associated academic pedigree.

I just feel that realignment is going to be a brokering between the distributors and producers on how dividends are redistributed from asset consolidation.

I don't disagree that the networks will try to work it out but remember, in 2010 ESPN tried to scoop Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame right out from under FOX's nose. The SEC was going to get A&M an Missouri and the ACC was to surrender N.C. State and Va Tech to make room for the other 4. When Tobacco Road figured out that they would lose political control of the ACC they balked. That's want created the need for holding Texas in place (LHN) made Oklahoma sign a T3 with FOX and caused ESPN to overpay Kansas for T3 to hold them. It's also why N.D. got away with getting a partial deal. And it is why the ACCN has been so late in materializing. If they had a western quad of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Louisville or Miami then they would have had the cachet to warrant a network, especially with the Irish all in. The original plan was supposedly that the ACCN would open the year after the SECN and the two might have been bundled.

So I'm not sold that the ACC is really in that great of grace with ESPN.

If the deal is brokered then certainly FOX will land a couple of the brands. Hence the Oklahoma / Kansas talk. Oklahoma folks push that agenda because their administration fans the flames. Why? If the SEC has Oklahoma we have all of Texas in the most economical fashion outside of taking the Horns. Push hard that they are headed to the B1G and maybe we offer Oklahoma State too.

If ESPN feels comfortable that it has Texas on the leash then I expect them to go all out to land OU for the SEC. If that happens they know they get Kansas too! The Big 10 can't monetize Kansas without either Texas or Oklahoma to cover them.

I don't think there will be any cooperation between FOX and ESPN. I think ESPN will try to still land all of the brands from the Big 12. And I think they will push especially hard to get all of the Texas teams into either the ACC, AAC, or SEC so they can hold the hammer on add rates in that state. They already have S.M.U. and Houston in the AAC where they also hold Tulsa.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech in the SEC. Notre Dame, West Virginia, and possibly T.C.U. and Baylor in the ACC. That covers everything that ESPN truly cares about. Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Colorado State or UNLV then may be attractive to the PAC.

The only way I see ESPN working with FOX is if ESPN can land a bigger chunk of the Big 10. And I don't see that as being too likely.

I agree with everything except for Baylor. Cincinnati would head to the ACC and Baylor would slot into the AAC.

The ACC won't take TCU without Texas.
And we sure-as-the-world won't end up with more teams north of the NC/Va border than south of it.
09-13-2017 03:11 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #64
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-13-2017 03:11 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 02:58 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I don't disagree that the networks will try to work it out but remember, in 2010 ESPN tried to scoop Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame right out from under FOX's nose. The SEC was going to get A&M an Missouri and the ACC was to surrender N.C. State and Va Tech to make room for the other 4. When Tobacco Road figured out that they would lose political control of the ACC they balked. That's want created the need for holding Texas in place (LHN) made Oklahoma sign a T3 with FOX and caused ESPN to overpay Kansas for T3 to hold them. It's also why N.D. got away with getting a partial deal. And it is why the ACCN has been so late in materializing. If they had a western quad of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Louisville or Miami then they would have had the cachet to warrant a network, especially with the Irish all in. The original plan was supposedly that the ACCN would open the year after the SECN and the two might have been bundled.

So I'm not sold that the ACC is really in that great of grace with ESPN.

If the deal is brokered then certainly FOX will land a couple of the brands. Hence the Oklahoma / Kansas talk. Oklahoma folks push that agenda because their administration fans the flames. Why? If the SEC has Oklahoma we have all of Texas in the most economical fashion outside of taking the Horns. Push hard that they are headed to the B1G and maybe we offer Oklahoma State too.

If ESPN feels comfortable that it has Texas on the leash then I expect them to go all out to land OU for the SEC. If that happens they know they get Kansas too! The Big 10 can't monetize Kansas without either Texas or Oklahoma to cover them.

I don't think there will be any cooperation between FOX and ESPN. I think ESPN will try to still land all of the brands from the Big 12. And I think they will push especially hard to get all of the Texas teams into either the ACC, AAC, or SEC so they can hold the hammer on add rates in that state. They already have S.M.U. and Houston in the AAC where they also hold Tulsa.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech in the SEC. Notre Dame, West Virginia, and possibly T.C.U. and Baylor in the ACC. That covers everything that ESPN truly cares about. Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Colorado State or UNLV then may be attractive to the PAC.

The only way I see ESPN working with FOX is if ESPN can land a bigger chunk of the Big 10. And I don't see that as being too likely.

I agree with everything except for Baylor. Cincinnati would head to the ACC and Baylor would slot into the AAC.

The ACC won't take TCU without Texas.
And we sure-as-the-world won't end up with more teams north of the NC/Va border than south of it.

TCU and Houston are South of that border.

But you have to be realistic. Unless you're willing to take a bunch of G5s, there's noting else left in your region of the country.
09-13-2017 04:30 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-13-2017 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I don't disagree that the networks will try to work it out but remember, in 2010 ESPN tried to scoop Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame right out from under FOX's nose. The SEC was going to get A&M an Missouri and the ACC was to surrender N.C. State and Va Tech to make room for the other 4. When Tobacco Road figured out that they would lose political control of the ACC they balked. That's want created the need for holding Texas in place (LHN) made Oklahoma sign a T3 with FOX and caused ESPN to overpay Kansas for T3 to hold them. It's also why N.D. got away with getting a partial deal. And it is why the ACCN has been so late in materializing. If they had a western quad of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Louisville or Miami then they would have had the cachet to warrant a network, especially with the Irish all in. The original plan was supposedly that the ACCN would open the year after the SECN and the two might have been bundled.

As I'm connected to absolutely nothing, I have/had no idea how close the bolded was to coming to fruition. If anyone was going to throw a monkey wrench into that plan I'd wager on Texas and ND. That said, I do agree that maintaining control of the ACC is the watchword on Tobacco Road.

JRsec Wrote:So I'm not sold that the ACC is really in that great of grace with ESPN.

If the deal is brokered then certainly FOX will land a couple of the brands. Hence the Oklahoma / Kansas talk. Oklahoma folks push that agenda because their administration fans the flames. Why? If the SEC has Oklahoma we have all of Texas in the most economical fashion outside of taking the Horns. Push hard that they are headed to the B1G and maybe we offer Oklahoma State too.

While getting OU would definitely increase SEC penetration into the DFW market, I don't see how the OU/KU to the B1G narrative forces anyone's hand. The only reason for the SEC to take both OK schools is because ESPN will pay for the additions. Sans that compulsion the SEC needs to either add one more school or vote to eliminate divisions.

JRsec Wrote:If ESPN feels comfortable that it has Texas on the leash then I expect them to go all out to land OU for the SEC. If that happens they know they get Kansas too! The Big 10 can't monetize Kansas without either Texas or Oklahoma to cover them.

I don't think there will be any cooperation between FOX and ESPN. I think ESPN will try to still land all of the brands from the Big 12. And I think they will push especially hard to get all of the Texas teams into either the ACC, AAC, or SEC so they can hold the hammer on add rates in that state. They already have S.M.U. and Houston in the AAC where they also hold Tulsa.

I don't see how a P4 is possible without FOX/ESPN working together to shutter the B12 in a way that minimizes legal exposure.

JRsec Wrote:I still wouldn't be surprised to see Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech in the SEC. Notre Dame, West Virginia, and possibly T.C.U. and Baylor in the ACC. That covers everything that ESPN truly cares about. Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Colorado State or UNLV then may be attractive to the PAC.

The only way I see ESPN working with FOX is if ESPN can land a bigger chunk of the Big 10. And I don't see that as being too likely.

I think the ACC would more readily accept WVU at this point than have to deal with Baylor. Granted, I do think the Bears have to be taken care or they will try and burn everything down. With their schools' reputation in the trash right now they have absolutely nothing to lose.
09-13-2017 07:48 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-13-2017 07:48 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If ESPN feels comfortable that it has Texas on the leash then I expect them to go all out to land OU for the SEC. If that happens they know they get Kansas too! The Big 10 can't monetize Kansas without either Texas or Oklahoma to cover them.

I don't think there will be any cooperation between FOX and ESPN. I think ESPN will try to still land all of the brands from the Big 12. And I think they will push especially hard to get all of the Texas teams into either the ACC, AAC, or SEC so they can hold the hammer on add rates in that state. They already have S.M.U. and Houston in the AAC where they also hold Tulsa.

I don't see how a P4 is possible without FOX/ESPN working together to shutter the B12 in a way that minimizes legal exposure.

My theory is that we don't get a true P4 if ESPN has anything to say about it.

The system would be great for college football and the playoff would make more sense if every league had semis or something similar, but ESPN would have to share that content.

Since ESPN owns the playoff, they stand to profit the most from adding another round to the CFP. If they successfully dismantle the Big 12 and expand the SEC and ACC to a number conducive to getting more than one school in the playoff then they could win big.

There's also the fact that if the Big 12 goes away then the playoff money is split 4 ways instead of 5 not counting what the G5 gets. The SEC and ACC stand to gain considerably if they go along with ESPN. Assuming, of course, that is the plan.
09-13-2017 08:25 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-13-2017 08:25 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  My theory is that we don't get a true P4 if ESPN has anything to say about it.

The system would be great for college football and the playoff would make more sense if every league had semis or something similar, but ESPN would have to share that content.

Since ESPN owns the playoff, they stand to profit the most from adding another round to the CFP. If they successfully dismantle the Big 12 and expand the SEC and ACC to a number conducive to getting more than one school in the playoff then they could win big.

There's also the fact that if the Big 12 goes away then the playoff money is split 4 ways instead of 5 not counting what the G5 gets. The SEC and ACC stand to gain considerably if they go along with ESPN. Assuming, of course, that is the plan.

That is certainly plausible, but IMO the B12 as constructed is an under performing asset for both FOX and ESPN. The payouts from the LHN and conference shares to Texas simply don't justify themselves.

I tend to think the folks in B'ham are smart enough to realize that expansion and the follow on revenue are about ensuring long term stability, not a dick measuring contest with Delany. Thus while landing Texas and OU would be nice, no one will 'has a sad' if they go elsewhere.

Let KU, OU and the Longhorns trudge off the B1G for academic 'glory'. If FOX will pay out the remaining balance of the LHN contract or even split the payments, ESPN can have a couple of the 'little brother' problems taken care of by moving OKST and TCU to the SEC.
09-14-2017 04:34 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #68
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 04:34 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 08:25 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  My theory is that we don't get a true P4 if ESPN has anything to say about it.

The system would be great for college football and the playoff would make more sense if every league had semis or something similar, but ESPN would have to share that content.

Since ESPN owns the playoff, they stand to profit the most from adding another round to the CFP. If they successfully dismantle the Big 12 and expand the SEC and ACC to a number conducive to getting more than one school in the playoff then they could win big.

There's also the fact that if the Big 12 goes away then the playoff money is split 4 ways instead of 5 not counting what the G5 gets. The SEC and ACC stand to gain considerably if they go along with ESPN. Assuming, of course, that is the plan.

That is certainly plausible, but IMO the B12 as constructed is an under performing asset for both FOX and ESPN. The payouts from the LHN and conference shares to Texas simply don't justify themselves.

I tend to think the folks in B'ham are smart enough to realize that expansion and the follow on revenue are about ensuring long term stability, not a dick measuring contest with Delany. Thus while landing Texas and OU would be nice, no one will 'has a sad' if they go elsewhere.

Let KU, OU and the Longhorns trudge off the B1G for academic 'glory'. If FOX will pay out the remaining balance of the LHN contract or even split the payments, ESPN can have a couple of the 'little brother' problems taken care of by moving OKST and TCU to the SEC.

Thing is, I don't think UT, OU, or KU really want to head to the B1G in the first place. Maybe KU, but there's even public record of Kansas officials hoping for a spot in the SEC so at worst the Jayhawks probably just want to make sure they have a safe landing spot.

I do agree that SEC officials won't fall on their sword if these schools go elsewhere, but I don't think any of them will be destabilizing forces should they join the league. UT is the potential problem child, but as long as they're getting paid and playing games against schools they want on the schedule then I don't see them causing a fuss.

The talk of academic glory comes mostly from internet posters who either don't understand how the system works or from people into just another flavor of dick measuring as you say.

In short, I don't think the SEC would take OSU or TCU under most circumstances. The moves wouldn't really pay for themselves and those schools don't really add anything tangible. I think we'd just assume not expand if the ACC schools are off the market and UT/OU head elsewhere.

If ESPN is calling the shots though, I think we're in good position to land them.
09-14-2017 06:01 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 06:01 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Thing is, I don't think UT, OU, or KU really want to head to the B1G in the first place. Maybe KU, but there's even public record of Kansas officials hoping for a spot in the SEC so at worst the Jayhawks probably just want to make sure they have a safe landing spot.

I do agree that SEC officials won't fall on their sword if these schools go elsewhere, but I don't think any of them will be destabilizing forces should they join the league. UT is the potential problem child, but as long as they're getting paid and playing games against schools they want on the schedule then I don't see them causing a fuss.

The talk of academic glory comes mostly from internet posters who either don't understand how the system works or from people into just another flavor of dick measuring as you say.

In short, I don't think the SEC would take OSU or TCU under most circumstances. The moves wouldn't really pay for themselves and those schools don't really add anything tangible. I think we'd just assume not expand if the ACC schools are off the market and UT/OU head elsewhere.

If ESPN is calling the shots though, I think we're in good position to land them.

My priority is that the scheduling situation gets resolved. That can be done by either voting to eliminate divisions or by adding one more school. In that regard I would agree that OKST or TCU aren't anymore compelling an add than say ECU or simply having each school maintain 3 permanent rivals.

But because I think ESPN is looking for a way to maximize the its ROI on current investments, breaking up the B12 is a priority. The only way to salvage that conference were if the WWL bribed a couple of ACC and SEC schools into moving, and that simply isn't happening.
09-14-2017 07:12 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #70
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 07:12 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-14-2017 06:01 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Thing is, I don't think UT, OU, or KU really want to head to the B1G in the first place. Maybe KU, but there's even public record of Kansas officials hoping for a spot in the SEC so at worst the Jayhawks probably just want to make sure they have a safe landing spot.

I do agree that SEC officials won't fall on their sword if these schools go elsewhere, but I don't think any of them will be destabilizing forces should they join the league. UT is the potential problem child, but as long as they're getting paid and playing games against schools they want on the schedule then I don't see them causing a fuss.

The talk of academic glory comes mostly from internet posters who either don't understand how the system works or from people into just another flavor of dick measuring as you say.

In short, I don't think the SEC would take OSU or TCU under most circumstances. The moves wouldn't really pay for themselves and those schools don't really add anything tangible. I think we'd just assume not expand if the ACC schools are off the market and UT/OU head elsewhere.

If ESPN is calling the shots though, I think we're in good position to land them.

My priority is that the scheduling situation gets resolved. That can be done by either voting to eliminate divisions or by adding one more school. In that regard I would agree that OKST or TCU aren't anymore compelling an add than say ECU or simply having each school maintain 3 permanent rivals.

But because I think ESPN is looking for a way to maximize the its ROI on current investments, breaking up the B12 is a priority. The only way to salvage that conference were if the WWL bribed a couple of ACC and SEC schools into moving, and that simply isn't happening.

The ACC tried to get a championship game with only 11 teams and was shot down, but the Big 12 was able to get a championship game with only 10 teams.
The ACC tried to be able to select their champion any way they chose (eliminate divisions) but was shot down, maybe someone can get the legislation through the NCAA. If it's possible, I do believe the ACC would stop at 15 (Notre Dame all in).

To maximize ROI the Big 12 will be left to die. ESPN will still have the LHN contract with Texas and will make money off of the Longhorns where ever they end up, post Big 12. The other schools will have to scramble for landing spots and will only find one if the networks agree to pay the conferences to accept them. That way the networks will control which school gets to join which conference.
09-14-2017 07:31 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 07:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  If it's possible, I do believe the ACC would stop at 15 (Notre Dame all in).

This is true unless the money was there. If the ACC would get more per school by having 16 or 18 or whatever, then they would definitely do that. I would like to see them add Notre Dame, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and Connecticut for 18.

Atlantic: Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Connecticut, Syracuse, West Virginia
Coastal: Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest
West: Miami, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Louisville, Cincinnati
09-14-2017 09:06 AM
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RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 07:12 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-14-2017 06:01 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Thing is, I don't think UT, OU, or KU really want to head to the B1G in the first place. Maybe KU, but there's even public record of Kansas officials hoping for a spot in the SEC so at worst the Jayhawks probably just want to make sure they have a safe landing spot.

I do agree that SEC officials won't fall on their sword if these schools go elsewhere, but I don't think any of them will be destabilizing forces should they join the league. UT is the potential problem child, but as long as they're getting paid and playing games against schools they want on the schedule then I don't see them causing a fuss.

The talk of academic glory comes mostly from internet posters who either don't understand how the system works or from people into just another flavor of dick measuring as you say.

In short, I don't think the SEC would take OSU or TCU under most circumstances. The moves wouldn't really pay for themselves and those schools don't really add anything tangible. I think we'd just assume not expand if the ACC schools are off the market and UT/OU head elsewhere.

If ESPN is calling the shots though, I think we're in good position to land them.

My priority is that the scheduling situation gets resolved. That can be done by either voting to eliminate divisions or by adding one more school. In that regard I would agree that OKST or TCU aren't anymore compelling an add than say ECU or simply having each school maintain 3 permanent rivals.

But because I think ESPN is looking for a way to maximize the its ROI on current investments, breaking up the B12 is a priority. The only way to salvage that conference were if the WWL bribed a couple of ACC and SEC schools into moving, and that simply isn't happening.

I'm for expansion for the same reason. I think we should add 2.

I don't think we'll have to worry about getting good additions though. I think at worst we'll end up with OU and OSU.

I wouldn't mind going divisionless, but I get the feeling no one wants to do something that radical.
09-14-2017 10:26 AM
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Post: #73
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 07:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  The ACC tried to get a championship game with only 11 teams and was shot down, but the Big 12 was able to get a championship game with only 10 teams.
The ACC tried to be able to select their champion any way they chose (eliminate divisions) but was shot down, maybe someone can get the legislation through the NCAA. If it's possible, I do believe the ACC would stop at 15 (Notre Dame all in).

The rejection the divisionless concept I think was when many felt the ACC was still ripe for the picking IMO. Giving you that benny would have provided the ACC needed stability. Because of the teams in your conference I would still recommend a divisionless set up for the ACC. That said I think expansion via the B12 for the ACC would be a disaster to the equilibrium Swofford has finally achieved.
09-14-2017 12:55 PM
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Post: #74
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 10:26 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'm for expansion for the same reason. I think we should add 2.

I don't think we'll have to worry about getting good additions though. I think at worst we'll end up with OU and OSU.

I wouldn't mind going divisionless, but I get the feeling no one wants to do something that radical.

If we had conference semifinals, divisionless would work. Imagine the SEC going to 18 with OU, OSU, KU and Texas. Go to 9 conference games, 5 permanent rivals and rotate through remaining 12 schools in three seasons.

School - permanent rivals
Ala-Tenn, Aub, LSU, A&M, MSU
Ark-Mizz, Ole, LSU, A&M, Texas
Aub-Ala, SC, Ga, FL, MSU
FL-SC, Ga, Tenn, Aub, OU
Ga-SC, Fl, Aub, Tenn, UK
Kansas/KU-Tex, OU, OSU, Mizz, UK
Kentucky/UK-SC, Ga, Tenn, V, KU
LSU-Ala, A&M, Ark, Ole, MSU
MSU-Ole, V, Ala, Aub, LSU
OSU-KU, Mizz, Ole, OU, Tex
OU-Tex, FL, KU, OSU, Mizz
Ole-MSU, LSU, A&M, OSU, Ark
SC-UK, V, Aub, Ga, FL
Tenn-Ga, FL, Ala, V, UK
Texas-A&M, Ark, OU, OSU, KU
A&M-Ala, LSU, Ole, Ark, Texas
Vandy-Mizz, UK, SC, Tenn, MSU

Rivalry weekend games:
KU-Mizz
OSU-OU
UT-A&M
Ark-LSU
Ole-MSU
Ala-Tenn
V-Tenn
UK-L'ville
Ga-GT
FL-FSU
SC-Clemson

*a&m, not happy about adding Texas and more B12 friends, only has to play UT yearly and not any other former B12 school yearly
*LSU requests dropping FL from its yearly schedule, SEC starts yearly rivalry between FL and OU.
*Auburn gains a very south eastern set of yearly rivals after years of requesting.
*Vanderbilt and Kentucky get rather easy permanent rivals.
*Top four teams enter conference tournament. Top two seeds get home games at their home stadiums; final in Atlanta.
*Fox approves move under condition: Fox gets to split picking second and third with ESPN behind CBS' top weekly pick and package. ESPN agrees and reduces inventory in B1G to Fox as a compromise.
09-15-2017 02:07 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #75
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-15-2017 02:07 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(09-14-2017 10:26 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'm for expansion for the same reason. I think we should add 2.

I don't think we'll have to worry about getting good additions though. I think at worst we'll end up with OU and OSU.

I wouldn't mind going divisionless, but I get the feeling no one wants to do something that radical.

If we had conference semifinals, divisionless would work. Imagine the SEC going to 18 with OU, OSU, KU and Texas. Go to 9 conference games, 5 permanent rivals and rotate through remaining 12 schools in three seasons.

School - permanent rivals
Ala-Tenn, Aub, LSU, A&M, MSU
Ark-Mizz, Ole, LSU, A&M, Texas
Aub-Ala, SC, Ga, FL, MSU
FL-SC, Ga, Tenn, Aub, OU
Ga-SC, Fl, Aub, Tenn, UK
Kansas/KU-Tex, OU, OSU, Mizz, UK
Kentucky/UK-SC, Ga, Tenn, V, KU
LSU-Ala, A&M, Ark, Ole, MSU
MSU-Ole, V, Ala, Aub, LSU
OSU-KU, Mizz, Ole, OU, Tex
OU-Tex, FL, KU, OSU, Mizz
Ole-MSU, LSU, A&M, OSU, Ark
SC-UK, V, Aub, Ga, FL
Tenn-Ga, FL, Ala, V, UK
Texas-A&M, Ark, OU, OSU, KU
A&M-Ala, LSU, Ole, Ark, Texas
Vandy-Mizz, UK, SC, Tenn, MSU

Rivalry weekend games:
KU-Mizz
OSU-OU
UT-A&M
Ark-LSU
Ole-MSU
Ala-Tenn
V-Tenn
UK-L'ville
Ga-GT
FL-FSU
SC-Clemson

*a&m, not happy about adding Texas and more B12 friends, only has to play UT yearly and not any other former B12 school yearly
*LSU requests dropping FL from its yearly schedule, SEC starts yearly rivalry between FL and OU.
*Auburn gains a very south eastern set of yearly rivals after years of requesting.
*Vanderbilt and Kentucky get rather easy permanent rivals.
*Top four teams enter conference tournament. Top two seeds get home games at their home stadiums; final in Atlanta.
*Fox approves move under condition: Fox gets to split picking second and third with ESPN behind CBS' top weekly pick and package. ESPN agrees and reduces inventory in B1G to Fox as a compromise.

Once things settle out, there won't be a rivalry weekend. In order to get maximum TV exposure for rivalry games, those special "must see" games will be spread out during the season so that they won't compete with each other all on one weekend.
09-15-2017 04:51 AM
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Post: #76
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-15-2017 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  Once things settle out, there won't be a rivalry weekend. In order to get maximum TV exposure for rivalry games, those special "must see" games will be spread out during the season so that they won't compete with each other all on one weekend.

On its face, this seems to make a lot of sense. And I could see networks using some lazy theory to justify it. But how many rivalry weekend games would anyone outside of the state/region care about?

NC/NCST
UGA/GT
MSST/OLE MISS
SCAR/CLEM
VT/UVA

Sure LSU/A&M and the Iron Bowl transcend regional boarders, but moving those games from their current dates is going to diminish their value. I think the real play is to increase the number of intersectional games and get them sprinkled in throughout the conference schedule.
09-15-2017 08:10 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #77
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-15-2017 08:10 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-15-2017 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  Once things settle out, there won't be a rivalry weekend. In order to get maximum TV exposure for rivalry games, those special "must see" games will be spread out during the season so that they won't compete with each other all on one weekend.

On its face, this seems to make a lot of sense. And I could see networks using some lazy theory to justify it. But how many rivalry weekend games would anyone outside of the state/region care about?

NC/NCST
UGA/GT
MSST/OLE MISS
SCAR/CLEM
VT/UVA

Sure LSU/A&M and the Iron Bowl transcend regional boarders, but moving those games from their current dates is going to diminish their value. I think the real play is to increase the number of intersectional games and get them sprinkled in throughout the conference schedule.

Notre Dame/Southern Cal (every other year)
Michigan/Ohio State
Florida State/Florida

games you will/might see in the future
Texas/Texas A&M (which you will see again if Texas joins the ACC)
Oklahoma/Nebraska (already have 4 games scheduled-September games)
09-15-2017 08:55 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #78
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-15-2017 08:55 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-15-2017 08:10 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-15-2017 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  Once things settle out, there won't be a rivalry weekend. In order to get maximum TV exposure for rivalry games, those special "must see" games will be spread out during the season so that they won't compete with each other all on one weekend.

On its face, this seems to make a lot of sense. And I could see networks using some lazy theory to justify it. But how many rivalry weekend games would anyone outside of the state/region care about?

NC/NCST
UGA/GT
MSST/OLE MISS
SCAR/CLEM
VT/UVA

Sure LSU/A&M and the Iron Bowl transcend regional boarders, but moving those games from their current dates is going to diminish their value. I think the real play is to increase the number of intersectional games and get them sprinkled in throughout the conference schedule.

Notre Dame/Southern Cal (every other year)
Michigan/Ohio State
Florida State/Florida

games you will/might see in the future
Texas/Texas A&M (which you will see again if Texas joins the ACC)
Oklahoma/Nebraska (already have 4 games scheduled-September games)

I agree that the games you've listed are prominent enough that moving them from Turkey Weekend wouldn't be detrimental. I was trying to keep it confined the SEC-ACC matchups were familiar with that just don't have that broad based appeal.
09-15-2017 10:43 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #79
RE: The Great Chase for Texas
(09-14-2017 12:55 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-14-2017 07:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  The ACC tried to get a championship game with only 11 teams and was shot down, but the Big 12 was able to get a championship game with only 10 teams.
The ACC tried to be able to select their champion any way they chose (eliminate divisions) but was shot down, maybe someone can get the legislation through the NCAA. If it's possible, I do believe the ACC would stop at 15 (Notre Dame all in).

The rejection the divisionless concept I think was when many felt the ACC was still ripe for the picking IMO. Giving you that benny would have provided the ACC needed stability. Because of the teams in your conference I would still recommend a divisionless set up for the ACC. That said I think expansion via the B12 for the ACC would be a disaster to the equilibrium Swofford has finally achieved.

I would agree about staying away from Big 12 teams unless of course it is at the insistence of ESPN.
Swofford has done a masterful job getting the ACC to it's current position. The Notre Dame question still looms, and although I believe the Irish will eventually join fully, the timing is unknown.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2017 01:53 PM by XLance.)
09-17-2017 01:50 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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The Great Chase for Texas
(09-17-2017 01:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-14-2017 12:55 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-14-2017 07:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  The ACC tried to get a championship game with only 11 teams and was shot down, but the Big 12 was able to get a championship game with only 10 teams.
The ACC tried to be able to select their champion any way they chose (eliminate divisions) but was shot down, maybe someone can get the legislation through the NCAA. If it's possible, I do believe the ACC would stop at 15 (Notre Dame all in).

The rejection the divisionless concept I think was when many felt the ACC was still ripe for the picking IMO. Giving you that benny would have provided the ACC needed stability. Because of the teams in your conference I would still recommend a divisionless set up for the ACC. That said I think expansion via the B12 for the ACC would be a disaster to the equilibrium Swofford has finally achieved.

I would agree about staying away from Big 12 teams unless of course it is at the insistence of ESPN.
Swofford has done a masterful job getting the ACC to it's current position. The Notre Dame question still looms, and although I believe the Irish will eventually join fully, the timing is unknown.

I actually think ND as a partial is the best situation for the ACC. It provide the conference with a football credible team that wants to play former BE schools like BC. Full membership in a division format will see the Irish leverage to be a whatever conference has GT, Clemson and a FL team.
09-17-2017 04:45 PM
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