OwlJacket Wrote:I'd trade UTEP and their recent football/basketball success (and tier 4 academics and 30% grad rates) for TCU's baseball, other minor sports, academics, and tradition.

Are you jealous because we drew more fans in your own city than your team can draw in two games? Or are you jealous because our facilities are top-notch and yours are a joke? Maybe it is because we have more bowl game appearances, NCAA men's BB tournament appearances, and NIT appearances than you do. We also have more NCAA championships than you do. And if our success is recent than what is yours? Your last bowl game appearance occurred when JFK was still alive. Your last NCAA bb tourney bid was in the mid 1980's. No one cares how many chess championships Rice has won. People here care how much revenue your athletic program can help generate for the conference. There is not a single school in C-USA that is really in position to criticize UTEP right now and certainly not Rice. You should keep your big snout shut and be thankful Rice is not in the Sun Belt where it probably belongs.

Hey, and you guys say UofL fans are stuck up. Sounds like some new additions are pretty cocky before they even have entered!

charles Wrote:

OwlJacket Wrote:I'd trade UTEP and their recent football/basketball success (and tier 4 academics and 30% grad rates) for TCU's baseball, other minor sports, academics, and tradition.

Are you jealous because we drew more fans in your own city than your team can draw in two games? Or are you jealous because our facilities are top-notch and yours are a joke? Maybe it is because we have more bowl game appearances, NCAA men's BB tournament appearances, and NIT appearances than you do. We also have more NCAA championships than you do. And if our success is recent than what is yours? Your last bowl game appearance occurred when JFK was still alive. Your last NCAA bb tourney bid was in the mid 1980's. No one cares how many chess championships Rice has won. People here care how much revenue your athletic program can help generate for the conference. There is not a single school in C-USA that is really in position to criticize UTEP right now and certainly not Rice. You should keep your big snout shut and be thankful Rice is not in the Sun Belt where it probably belongs.

My goodness, Charles! You are certainly wearing your feelings on your sleeve. I don't think the Owl meant anything too terribly demeaning about UTEP. Surely you will give us old rivals (TCU and Rice) a little bit of time to adjust to the new college sports world without one another?

I think UTEP will make a great addition to CUSA. Yes, I know that there are those that would say that UTEP has been to one bowl in the last 20 years and has a 10 year winning % of like .250 in most sports but I still think you guys will do well.

I would caution you about getting into arguments with Rice people though. Owls tend to be very, very smart and you probably will not win. Comparing Rice to UTEP is similar to comparing Harvard to Sul Ross!

:angel:

Wobblefrog Wrote:

charles Wrote:

OwlJacket Wrote:I'd trade UTEP and their recent football/basketball success (and tier 4 academics and 30% grad rates) for TCU's baseball, other minor sports, academics, and tradition.

Are you jealous because we drew more fans in your own city than your team can draw in two games? Or are you jealous because our facilities are top-notch and yours are a joke? Maybe it is because we have more bowl game appearances, NCAA men's BB tournament appearances, and NIT appearances than you do. We also have more NCAA championships than you do. And if our success is recent than what is yours? Your last bowl game appearance occurred when JFK was still alive. Your last NCAA bb tourney bid was in the mid 1980's. No one cares how many chess championships Rice has won. People here care how much revenue your athletic program can help generate for the conference. There is not a single school in C-USA that is really in position to criticize UTEP right now and certainly not Rice. You should keep your big snout shut and be thankful Rice is not in the Sun Belt where it probably belongs.

My goodness, Charles! You are certainly wearing your feelings on your sleeve. I don't think the Owl meant anything too terribly demeaning about UTEP. Surely you will give us old rivals (TCU and Rice) a little bit of time to adjust to the new college sports world without one another?

I think UTEP will make a great addition to CUSA. Yes, I know that there are those that would say that UTEP has been to one bowl in the last 20 years and has a 10 year winning % of like .250 in most sports but I still think you guys will do well.

I would caution you about getting into arguments with Rice people though. Owls tend to be very, very smart and you probably will not win. Comparing Rice to UTEP is similar to comparing Harvard to Sul Ross!

:angel:

Hey stupid, we play sports in this conference not tiddlywinks nor do we have debate tournaments. Oh, and if Rice is so smart why are they so stupid in running their athletic department. You'd think geniuses like the ones Rice supposedly has on their basketball team would be smart enough to know how to win on the road. Everytime they set foot outside of houston they get dismantled. Again idiot in what way does Rice have a better athletic tradition than UTEP? I'm not even going to compare our facilities and fan support to theirs because I don't want to embarrass them even further. Oh, and don't worry about us, worry about yourself. UTEP is going to do far better in both football and basketball than Rice or TCU. In fact, we already are.

A Rice fan talking smack about UTEP athletics??? LMAO :laugh: Let me see what school is better:
Facilites: UTEP
Fan support: UTEP
Football: UTEP
Basketball: UTEP
Fan appeal: UTEP
FB/BB Coaches: UTEP
Tradition: UTEP

Other than baseball, Rice has nothing to offer, they suck big time in football and basketball, which BTW pay the bills in college athletics and the same goes to TCU too. C-USA West schools should be thankful UTEP is in the same league with them. UTEP should be the leader in that weak division with no fan appeal, no fan support, bad football and basketball teams, etc, etc, etc. In fact those schools are to the same level of Louisiana Tech. Rice, do us a favor: drop to Division II and let a better school join C-USA. :rofl:

UTEPDallas Wrote:A Rice fan talking smack about UTEP athletics??? LMAO :laugh: Let me see what school is better:
Facilites: UTEP
Fan support: UTEP
Football: UTEP
Basketball: UTEP
Fan appeal: UTEP
FB/BB Coaches: UTEP
Tradition: UTEP

Other than baseball, Rice has nothing to offer, they suck big time in football and basketball, which BTW pay the bills in college athletics and the same goes to TCU too. C-USA West schools should be thankful UTEP is in the same league with them. UTEP should be the leader in that weak division with no fan appeal, no fan support, bad football and basketball teams, etc, etc, etc. In fact those schools are to the same level of Louisiana Tech. Rice, do us a favor: drop to Division II and let a better school join C-USA. :rofl:

Wow, you went even further than I did. I have no beef with Tulsa, SMU, Houston, or Tulane at the present moment. I only responded to a completely unprovoked attack on UTEP on the part of two idiots from TCU and Rice so I only blasted those two schools. They had to be put in their place after the piece of bovine fecal matter they posted.

Now going back to the topic, this is my opinion:
Rice, Tulsa, SMU, TCU and San Jose State had no business in the WAC. UNLV was the only good choice. Going to 16 was the worst mistake the WAC has ever done since the schools invited didn't bring anything to the table. If the WAC had gone to 14 and invited Nevada, Boise State, New Mexico State along with UNLV or gone to 12 with UNLV and Boise State then the WAC would be a BCS conference by now.

MOUNTAIN
UTEP
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
Boise State
New Mexico State (maybe)

PACIFIC
Hawaii
San Diego State
Utah
BYU
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada (maybe)

charles Wrote:

UTEPDallas Wrote:A Rice fan talking smack about UTEP athletics??? LMAO  :laugh: Let me see what school is better:
Facilites: UTEP
Fan support: UTEP
Football: UTEP
Basketball: UTEP
Fan appeal: UTEP
FB/BB Coaches: UTEP
Tradition: UTEP

Other than baseball, Rice has nothing to offer, they suck big time in football and basketball, which BTW pay the bills in college athletics and the same goes to TCU too. C-USA West schools should be thankful UTEP is in the same league with them. UTEP should be the leader in that weak division with no fan appeal, no fan support, bad football and basketball teams, etc, etc, etc. In fact those schools are to the same level of Louisiana Tech.    Rice, do us a favor: drop to Division II and let a better school join C-USA.  :rofl:

Wow, you went even further than I did. I have no beef with Tulsa, SMU, Houston, or Tulane at the present moment. I only responded to a completely unprovoked attack on UTEP on the part of two idiots from TCU and Rice so I only blasted those two schools. They had to be put in their place after the piece of bovine fecal matter they posted.

Charles, it's the truth. I'm glad UTEP is in the same league with Southern Mississippi, Memphis, East Carolina and Marshall but the C-USA West schools (maybe except Houston) are bad in everything I memtioned above. I remember only 11,000 people showed up to see a ranked UTEP team play against Tulsa in Tulsa last November. That's pathetic.

UTEPDallas Wrote:Now going back to the topic, this is my opinion:
Rice, Tulsa, SMU, TCU and San Jose State had no business in the WAC. UNLV was the only good choice. Going to 16 was the worst mistake the WAC has ever done since the schools invited didn't bring anything to the table. If the WAC had gone to 14 and invited Nevada, Boise State, New Mexico State along with UNLV or gone to 12 with UNLV and Boise State then the WAC would be a BCS conference by now.

MOUNTAIN
UTEP
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
Boise State
New Mexico State (maybe)

PACIFIC
Hawaii
San Diego State
Utah
BYU
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada (maybe)

You don't like the present arrangement, so you reach back into the past, hindsight the crap out of the decisions that were made, then project the rearranged past into a future that suits you more. Then you use your fiction to justify your present position that the status of things today is worthless.

Is that how they taught you to think at UTEP?

I like the present arrangement. I like having UTEP aboard despite you and chucky. Thank goodness the adults are in charge.

1ndabag Wrote:

UTEPDallas Wrote:Now going back to the topic, this is my opinion:
Rice, Tulsa, SMU, TCU and San Jose State had no business in the WAC. UNLV was the only good choice. Going to 16 was the worst mistake the WAC has ever done since the schools invited didn't bring anything to the table. If the WAC had gone to 14 and invited Nevada, Boise State, New Mexico State along with UNLV or gone to 12 with UNLV and Boise State then the WAC would be a BCS conference by now.

MOUNTAIN
UTEP
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
Boise State
New Mexico State (maybe)

PACIFIC
Hawaii
San Diego State
Utah
BYU
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada (maybe)

You don't like the present arrangement, so you reach back into the past, hindsight the crap out of the decisions that were made, then project the rearranged past into a future that suits you more. Then you use your fiction to justify your present position that the status of things today is worthless.

Is that how they taught you to think at UTEP?

I like the present arrangement. I like having UTEP aboard despite you and chucky. Thank goodness the adults are in charge.

Up until now I have not taken any shots at tulane and I have always defended C-USA(even chastised UTEPDallas many times) and spoken in favor of UTEP's membership in this conference. Don't start giving me reasons to think differently.

charles Wrote:Your last NCAA bb tourney bid was in the mid 1980's.

Mid 80's my @$$... try early 70's... Well before the tragic failure in contraception that brought you into this world..

1ndabag Wrote:

UTEPDallas Wrote:Now going back to the topic, this is my opinion:
Rice, Tulsa, SMU, TCU and San Jose State had no business in the WAC. UNLV was the only good choice. Going to 16 was the worst mistake the WAC has ever done since the schools invited didn't bring anything to the table. If the WAC had gone to 14 and invited Nevada, Boise State, New Mexico State along with UNLV or gone to 12 with UNLV and Boise State then the WAC would be a BCS conference by now.

MOUNTAIN
UTEP
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
Boise State
New Mexico State (maybe)

PACIFIC
Hawaii
San Diego State
Utah
BYU
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada (maybe)

You don't like the present arrangement, so you reach back into the past, hindsight the crap out of the decisions that were made, then project the rearranged past into a future that suits you more. Then you use your fiction to justify your present position that the status of things today is worthless.

Is that how they taught you to think at UTEP?

I like the present arrangement. I like having UTEP aboard despite you and chucky. Thank goodness the adults are in charge.

Of course you like the current arragement, I'm sure you like mediocrity. Like I said, UTEP is the only hope C-USA West has. On the other subject, too bad the past can't be changed, that way UTEP wouldn't be stuck with a bunch of losers like the rest of the old Eastern WAC and new C-USA West, right 1ndbag? :D :D :laugh: :rofl:

It's Friday night.....time to go out. See you tomorrow with more smack. Nite. :)

OwlJacket Wrote:I'd trade UTEP and their recent football/basketball success (and tier 4 academics and 30% grad rates) for TCU's baseball, other minor sports, academics, and tradition.

It's possible Charles overreacted a bit but I can't blame him for being pissed off. If you substitute Memphis, Southern Miss, Marshall, Houston, Tulsa, etc..for UTEP in that statement rest assured fans of those schools would want to bite your head off as well. Especially coming from a Rice fan you should be a bit more humble.

charles Wrote:

1ndabag Wrote:

UTEPDallas Wrote:Now going back to the topic, this is my opinion:
Rice, Tulsa, SMU, TCU and San Jose State had no business in the WAC. UNLV was the only good choice. Going to 16 was the worst mistake the WAC has ever done since the schools invited didn't bring anything to the table. If the WAC had gone to 14 and invited Nevada, Boise State, New Mexico State along with UNLV or gone to 12 with UNLV and Boise State then the WAC would be a BCS conference by now.

MOUNTAIN
UTEP
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
Boise State
New Mexico State (maybe)

PACIFIC
Hawaii
San Diego State
Utah
BYU
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada (maybe)

You don't like the present arrangement, so you reach back into the past, hindsight the crap out of the decisions that were made, then project the rearranged past into a future that suits you more. Then you use your fiction to justify your present position that the status of things today is worthless.

Is that how they taught you to think at UTEP?

I like the present arrangement. I like having UTEP aboard despite you and chucky. Thank goodness the adults are in charge.

Up until now I have not taken any shots at tulane and I have always defended C-USA(even chastised UTEPDallas many times) and spoken in favor of UTEP's membership in this conference. Don't start giving me reasons to think differently.

If your disagreement with a point that I've made is sufficient grounds for you to post crap about Tulane, have at it.

UTEPDallas Wrote:

1ndabag Wrote:

UTEPDallas Wrote:Now going back to the topic, this is my opinion:
Rice, Tulsa, SMU, TCU and San Jose State had no business in the WAC. UNLV was the only good choice. Going to 16 was the worst mistake the WAC has ever done since the schools invited didn't bring anything to the table. If the WAC had gone to 14 and invited Nevada, Boise State, New Mexico State along with UNLV or gone to 12 with UNLV and Boise State then the WAC would be a BCS conference by now.

MOUNTAIN
UTEP
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
Boise State
New Mexico State (maybe)

PACIFIC
Hawaii
San Diego State
Utah
BYU
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada (maybe)

You don't like the present arrangement, so you reach back into the past, hindsight the crap out of the decisions that were made, then project the rearranged past into a future that suits you more. Then you use your fiction to justify your present position that the status of things today is worthless.

Is that how they taught you to think at UTEP?

I like the present arrangement. I like having UTEP aboard despite you and chucky. Thank goodness the adults are in charge.

Of course you like the current arragement, I'm sure you like mediocrity. Like I said, UTEP is the only hope C-USA West has. On the other subject, too bad the past can't be changed, that way UTEP wouldn't be stuck with a bunch of losers like the rest of the old Eastern WAC and new C-USA West, right 1ndbag? :D :D :laugh: :rofl:

It's Friday night.....time to go out. See you tomorrow with more smack. Nite. :)

I don't think you understood my post given that you repeated the same stupidity.

LIke I said, I like the UTEP add, despite the persistent poor showing by two of their fans.

charles Wrote:Wow, you went even further than I did. I have no beef with Tulsa, SMU, Houston, or Tulane at the present moment.

Umm.. that's because you haven't responded to any threads to Tulsa posters after the thrashing you received at the end of the season...

UTEPDallas Wrote:A Rice fan talking smack about UTEP athletics??? LMAO  :laugh: Let me see what school is better:
Facilites: UTEP
Fan support: UTEP
Football: UTEP
Basketball: UTEP
Fan appeal: UTEP
FB/BB Coaches: UTEP
Tradition: UTEP

Other than baseball, Rice has nothing to offer, they suck big time in football and basketball, which BTW pay the bills in college athletics and the same goes to TCU too. C-USA West schools should be thankful UTEP is in the same league with them. UTEP should be the leader in that weak division with no fan appeal, no fan support, bad football and basketball teams, etc, etc, etc. In fact those schools are to the same level of Louisiana Tech.    Rice, do us a favor: drop to Division II and let a better school join C-USA.  :rofl:

Aside from the fact that you completely missed the point of the above post (discussed in a later post so as not to confuse intelligent discussion with talking to someone from UTEP), you talk a pretty distorted smack from a team that until 2003 was miserable at football and basketball in recent history.

I wonder if there's an award for the school with the top overall athletic program in a conference? Oh wait, in the WAC, there is. It's called the Comissioner's Cup. Guess who won it last year? (Hint: not UTEP).

Let's see, who would I rather have, a top 5 winningest coach in college FB, or a top 5 horniest coach in college FB? We'll see how long it lasts until Price gets sick of watching the Juarez peso dance and wants to move to some more upscale Gentlemen's clubs. Also, in case you missed the memo, your star basketball coach went to take over the 2nd worst program in the big XII. And I fail to see how your one year, newly promoted head coach is better than an experience coach who has been on the final cut list for several prestigious jobs.

And it would be expected that UTEP, in a huge metropolitan area where it is the only game in town and with a hugh undergrad student population would have better fan support than an elite private school. It's lonely at the top. Or, to put it in terms you can relate to, there are probably lots of junior fry cooks in your organization. They report to a couple of senior fry cooks, who might report to the manager. Guess what, the manager has a boss, and his manager has a boss... But there are far fewer upper level bosses that fry cooks. Congratulations for being in the crowd at the shallow end of the gene pool.

And if you knew anything about university profiles and division rankings, you would know that UTEP far better fits the profile of a division II school. Lots of them are large state schools with borderline high school academics. UTEP would fit right in. Top schools either play div IA (a la Duke/Stanford), Div IAA (the ivies), or Div III (MIT, Emory, Caltech). If we dropped, it'd be to division IAA or div III, not to II.

So, even with the worst academics in NCUSA, UTEP still can't seem to graduate more than 35% of its athletes. C'mon, is the Home Depot Day Laborer major really that difficult? When the rankings of bowl teams grad rates came out, UTEP headed the list of the worst schools in that regard. This is a total embarrassment to the WAC and NCUSA, and for your sake, I hope it can change. We wouldn't want you to get downsized for failing to comply with the new NCAA requirement, would we?

It's a shame that this thread deteriorated into a smack thread (maybe a mod wants to sort through the smack vs. discussion and split this out). But back to the issue it hand...

Tallgrass had suggested that this realignment was great and everyone came out on the winning end (or at least the majority ended up being in a better position) considering the bcs conference raids. But, the lessons learned from the WAC16 debacle showed us that two things are important for non-major conferences: (1) geographic sensibility (2) compatibility of academic mission. It seems that the majority of the schools and conferences were working towards that end.

Using those two conditions, TCU would have been a better fit than UTEP. I dislike the deplorable way TCU went about their business, but understand that they were chasing with the MWC a BCS bid (which didn't pan out) and more money (they'd be hard pressed to argue that the new contract is a 'drop in the bucket' compared to the old one as they had stated in their press release).

800+ miles. That's what it amounts to. I acknowledged that UTEP had good recent FB and BsktB seasons. Still: 800+ miles. And that's to the closest schools. I've loved the affiliation with Boise St (who has some great fans and a beautiful location) and Hawaii (enthusiastic fans and a beautiful location), but they are just too far away for a conference mate.

If, on the other hand, you could have a school that has good overall athletic programs, pretty good overall academics and actually cares for the most part about the student part of student athlete, is someone you have an 80 year history with, and is only a 4 hour drive away, wouldn't that be a better conference fit? I say that it would.

Don't get me wrong. I think UTEP was a decent compromise addition, I'm glad to have them in the conference, and I look forward to conference USA '05 (speaking of which, why are there no new logo shirts up on the CUSA website?)

Tony The Tiger Wrote:

OwlJacket Wrote:I'd trade UTEP and their recent football/basketball success (and tier 4 academics and 30% grad rates) for TCU's baseball, other minor sports, academics, and tradition.

It's possible Charles overreacted a bit but I can't blame him for being pissed off. If you substitute Memphis, Southern Miss, Marshall, Houston, Tulsa, etc..for UTEP in that statement rest assured fans of those schools would want to bite your head off as well. Especially coming from a Rice fan you should be a bit more humble.

:rofl: :laugh: :lol2: :rofl: :laugh: :lol2: :rofl: :laugh: :lol2:

Sorry, I was just picturing having the words 'houston' and 'recent football/basketball success' in the same sentence.

This thread is why this conference, and all of the regionality to it, is going to be awesome. We've never had anything like this before...all the passionate stuff was just anti-UL, and it was mainly message board insiders who felt that way.

The rivalries in the West permeate through all of the fan bases.

I think its a healthy thing.

You also know that the four privates are going to basically stick up for eachother in any smack talk. It's not because we are elitist, its just because we can relate to the challenges eachother's programs face. Well, OwlJacket probably is an elitist, but he also probably doesn't consider than an insult....