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talon owl Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Practices
(08-08-2017 09:11 AM)Pan95 Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 02:55 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 04:46 PM)roysterr Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 10:39 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 10:34 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I know you are trying to negative toward Bailiff, but that came across as being negative toward our players.

He did this before, when McHargue won the three way race. I am sure he will make a choice soon, and am equally sure it will not be made public until the game.

No, you had it right. From the evidence presented last year as well as Bailiff's quotes from earlier this summer, it's clear that QB is not of the strengths of this team.

I went to the scrimmage, Defense is way ahead of the offense.

Strange since the offense has essentially the same OC and the defense has a new OC and is changing schemes. Hope everything comes together on both sides of the ball in time to surprise Stanford!

Not strange. We are installing a new offense. See Pitt's 2016 offense for reference.

Do you know this for a fact or are you just speculating based on the new QB coach?
08-08-2017 08:54 PM
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Pan95 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Practices
(08-08-2017 08:54 PM)talon owl Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 09:11 AM)Pan95 Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 02:55 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 04:46 PM)roysterr Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 10:39 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  No, you had it right. From the evidence presented last year as well as Bailiff's quotes from earlier this summer, it's clear that QB is not of the strengths of this team.

I went to the scrimmage, Defense is way ahead of the offense.

Strange since the offense has essentially the same OC and the defense has a new OC and is changing schemes. Hope everything comes together on both sides of the ball in time to surprise Stanford!

Not strange. We are installing a new offense. See Pitt's 2016 offense for reference.

Do you know this for a fact or are you just speculating based on the new QB coach?

I'm very certain that we will have a new offensive identity. I am speculating that it will be similar to Pitt's. But my speculation is based upon my observations of practice in the spring and comments from the QBs during the spring. I will see if I can find the references.

Edit: I found the references. http://csnbbs.com/thread-810825-post-141...id14156155 and here is the Rice Thresher article: http://www.ricethresher.org/article/2017...g-practice
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2017 10:18 PM by Pan95.)
08-08-2017 10:14 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Practices
It's the reason Rice grabbed Beschomer. I hear he was instrumental at Pitt in helping to install their offense.
08-08-2017 11:46 PM
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owl40 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Practices
Would expect to see the touches going to Stewart running the ball and Walter twins speed on perimeter being relied upon for playmaking against Stanford leveraging all the experience up-front on the OL. Cephus emerges as future playmaking star at WR while in short-term QB is a game manager until Smalls and/or Glaesman is ready to go.

I don't like this strategy and am highly suspect for Rice as unless you are at Alabama or LSU, game manager QB's at college level are largely ineffective. Good teams (esp G5 level) have good QB play and that has never been more true than looking at DB's good years vs. DB's bad years.

I expect biggest improvement on D. Sure we will get pushed around for 5 yards a clip type stuff against Stanford but expect to see the explosive 30+ yard plays cut down considerably w/ new coaching, healthy DB's/DL, and new schemes. Don't know if that translates into more W's but should translate into more competitive games/fewer lopsided losses.
08-09-2017 04:20 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Practices
What does "game manager QB" mean?
08-09-2017 09:25 AM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.
08-09-2017 10:45 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.

And the alternative that would be better for us?

I don't care if our average pass gains 7 yards if we are completing 70% of them. I like players who don't have TOs. I don't see what the problem is.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2017 10:57 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-09-2017 10:56 AM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.

Get the play off in time too I hope...but that depends mostly on getting play calls in efficiently.
08-09-2017 10:57 AM
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ranfin Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 10:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  [quote='OptimisticOwl' pid='14491697' dateline='1502288746']
What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.

And the alternative that would be better for us?


To me, it doesn't seem like we have had a quarterback or receivers who were good with long passes for a long while. Our best offenses have combined running with an effective short passing game. That seems consistent with a "game manager" approach. The only thing weaker than our effectiveness at throwing the long bomb has been defending it.
08-09-2017 12:31 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.


In other words, get the ball to your playmakers.

Works if you have playmakers and those that can open space for them. If not, you get up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt, which is better than up the middle, delay of game, fumble inside your own 20, I suppose.
08-09-2017 12:38 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 12:38 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.


In other words, get the ball to your playmakers.

Works if you have playmakers and those that can open space for them. If not, you get up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt, which is better than up the middle, delay of game, fumble inside your own 20, I suppose.

If we have somebody who can hit deep passes in stride, that would be better. But apparently we don't.

If we don't, then the next best thing in my mind is to move the ball safely with short passes and the running game.

There have been a lot of complaints hereover the years about Bailiff trying to force his players to do things they are not suited to do. (square pegs, round holes) This appears to be a case of adjusting his offense to his talent. Isn't that what we have wanted him to do?

Bottom line, I just want to see scoring from the offense. If this is the way to do it, fine. I don't care if we play without a QB as long as it works. I don't care if every play is a QB dive, if that works. I am very results oriented, not means oriented.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2017 12:59 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-09-2017 12:58 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 12:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 12:38 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.


In other words, get the ball to your playmakers.

Works if you have playmakers and those that can open space for them. If not, you get up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt, which is better than up the middle, delay of game, fumble inside your own 20, I suppose.

If we have somebody who can hit deep passes in stride, that would be better. But apparently we don't.

If we don't, then the next best thing in my mind is to move the ball safely with short passes and the running game.

There have been a lot of complaints hereover the years about Bailiff trying to force his players to do things they are not suited to do. (square pegs, round holes) This appears to be a case of adjusting his offense to his talent. Isn't that what we have wanted him to do?

Bottom line, I just want to see scoring from the offense. If this is the way to do it, fine. I don't care if we play without a QB as long as it works. I don't care if every play is a QB dive, if that works. I am very results oriented, not means oriented.

A QB who can "manage the game" is usually just a way of saying you don't have a playmaker under center.

Manziel was not a "game manager" at QB.
08-09-2017 02:31 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 02:31 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 12:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 12:38 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.


In other words, get the ball to your playmakers.

Works if you have playmakers and those that can open space for them. If not, you get up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt, which is better than up the middle, delay of game, fumble inside your own 20, I suppose.

If we have somebody who can hit deep passes in stride, that would be better. But apparently we don't.

If we don't, then the next best thing in my mind is to move the ball safely with short passes and the running game.

There have been a lot of complaints hereover the years about Bailiff trying to force his players to do things they are not suited to do. (square pegs, round holes) This appears to be a case of adjusting his offense to his talent. Isn't that what we have wanted him to do?

Bottom line, I just want to see scoring from the offense. If this is the way to do it, fine. I don't care if we play without a QB as long as it works. I don't care if every play is a QB dive, if that works. I am very results oriented, not means oriented.

A QB who can "manage the game" is usually just a way of saying you don't have a playmaker under center.

Manziel was not a "game manager" at QB.

Exactly! Let's hope the Owls have some at RB and the receiver positions.
08-09-2017 02:44 PM
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McHargue Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Practices
Well yes we do not have Deshaun Watson or Johnny Manziel on the roster, but every QB is coached like they are going to be a game manager. Go according to the script, run the play that is called, and go through your progressions. Especially when you have a young QB you're not going to let them make too many checks at the line or audible out of bad looks because they don't know what they're looking at yet. However, every offense in the country rely's on broken plays that turn in to big plays regardless of how well they function according to the system. I don't think any of us know quite yet which of our QB's is best at making broken plays big plays, but I know coach Lynch is not going to handicap them by saying they need to stay in a box. They'll have the liberty to scramble and try and make plays, and they have their rules (like every QB in the country) that keep them from making a bad play worse. So sure, they're young and we'll have to limit what they call and what we take in to a game week but that does not make them a game manager. Take care of the ball, hit your big plays when they're there, and if one of them is clearly good at making big plays happen off script then we'll see it pretty quickly.
08-09-2017 02:55 PM
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texowl2 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 10:57 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.

Get the play off in time too I hope...but that depends mostly on getting play calls in efficiently.

Tiki-what stadium is that?
08-09-2017 06:08 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 02:31 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 12:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 12:38 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What does "game manager QB" mean?

Don't turn the ball over. Complete short easy passes. Hand it off to our RBs.


In other words, get the ball to your playmakers.

Works if you have playmakers and those that can open space for them. If not, you get up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt, which is better than up the middle, delay of game, fumble inside your own 20, I suppose.

If we have somebody who can hit deep passes in stride, that would be better. But apparently we don't.

If we don't, then the next best thing in my mind is to move the ball safely with short passes and the running game.

There have been a lot of complaints hereover the years about Bailiff trying to force his players to do things they are not suited to do. (square pegs, round holes) This appears to be a case of adjusting his offense to his talent. Isn't that what we have wanted him to do?

Bottom line, I just want to see scoring from the offense. If this is the way to do it, fine. I don't care if we play without a QB as long as it works. I don't care if every play is a QB dive, if that works. I am very results oriented, not means oriented.

A QB who can "manage the game" is usually just a way of saying you don't have a playmaker under center.

Manziel was not a "game manager" at QB.

I too hope that our QB doesnt have deep and pervasive substance and emotional issues.

But that probably isnt the definition by negation you were looking for....
08-09-2017 06:16 PM
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owl40 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 02:55 PM)McHargue Wrote:  Well yes we do not have Deshaun Watson or Johnny Manziel on the roster, but every QB is coached like they are going to be a game manager. Go according to the script, run the play that is called, and go through your progressions. Especially when you have a young QB you're not going to let them make too many checks at the line or audible out of bad looks because they don't know what they're looking at yet. However, every offense in the country rely's on broken plays that turn in to big plays regardless of how well they function according to the system. I don't think any of us know quite yet which of our QB's is best at making broken plays big plays, but I know coach Lynch is not going to handicap them by saying they need to stay in a box. They'll have the liberty to scramble and try and make plays, and they have their rules (like every QB in the country) that keep them from making a bad play worse. So sure, they're young and we'll have to limit what they call and what we take in to a game week but that does not make them a game manager. Take care of the ball, hit your big plays when they're there, and if one of them is clearly good at making big plays happen off script then we'll see it pretty quickly.

McHargue..gotta push back and disagree with you on this one. You and Chase were not game managers.

Both of you made plays with your mind, your feet, and your arm (and your heart when hurt)....and the results may have been more W's than all the other QB's in the DB era combined.

Unfortunately, we have not seen Glaesman or Smalls yet but what we have seen of the other two is that they are game managers who have not shown that ability to go beyond what they are coached to do which is run the play called and not make it through progressions, on-the-line checks, making positive things happen from broken plays, etc.

In Australia, I hope DB has the same confidence in one of the new Freshman that he had in you before that Texas game many years ago. That was one of his best coaching decisions.
08-09-2017 06:40 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 06:08 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 10:57 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Get the play off in time too I hope...but that depends mostly on getting play calls in efficiently.

[Image: wnpFI7.gif]

Tiki-what stadium is that?

A Google Image search using the image URL (https://vgy.me/wnpFI7.gif) pegs it as Buffalo/Buff Stadium, the minor league baseball park primarily used by the Houston Buffaloes from 1928 through 1961 (except for 1943 to 1945 because of World War II).

According to the Wikipedia page linked above, it was bounded by Leeland Street, St. Bernard Street (present-day Cullen Boulevard), Coyle Street, and Milby Street in the East End.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2017 06:45 PM by Almadenmike.)
08-09-2017 06:44 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 06:40 PM)owl40 Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 02:55 PM)McHargue Wrote:  Well yes we do not have Deshaun Watson or Johnny Manziel on the roster, but every QB is coached like they are going to be a game manager. Go according to the script, run the play that is called, and go through your progressions. Especially when you have a young QB you're not going to let them make too many checks at the line or audible out of bad looks because they don't know what they're looking at yet. However, every offense in the country rely's on broken plays that turn in to big plays regardless of how well they function according to the system. I don't think any of us know quite yet which of our QB's is best at making broken plays big plays, but I know coach Lynch is not going to handicap them by saying they need to stay in a box. They'll have the liberty to scramble and try and make plays, and they have their rules (like every QB in the country) that keep them from making a bad play worse. So sure, they're young and we'll have to limit what they call and what we take in to a game week but that does not make them a game manager. Take care of the ball, hit your big plays when they're there, and if one of them is clearly good at making big plays happen off script then we'll see it pretty quickly.

McHargue..gotta push back and disagree with you on this one. You and Chase were not game managers.

Both of you made plays with your mind, your feet, and your arm (and your heart when hurt)....and the results may have been more W's than all the other QB's in the DB era combined.

Unfortunately, we have not seen Glaesman or Smalls yet but what we have seen of the other two is that they are game managers who have not shown that ability to go beyond what they are coached to do which is run the play called and not make it through progressions, on-the-line checks, making positive things happen from broken plays, etc.

In Australia, I hope DB has the same confidence in one of the new Freshman that he had in you before that Texas game many years ago. That was one of his best coaching decisions.

I don't know about that. Granato hasn't shown anything. He's barely played. Tyner showed some good flashes against UTEP last year and was horrible against Stanford.

Too early to judge either one IMO. In the video posted on Twitter today, I caught a couple of glimpses and it appeared to be Tyner running with the first team O.
08-09-2017 07:11 PM
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Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Practices
(08-09-2017 07:11 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 06:40 PM)owl40 Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 02:55 PM)McHargue Wrote:  Well yes we do not have Deshaun Watson or Johnny Manziel on the roster, but every QB is coached like they are going to be a game manager. Go according to the script, run the play that is called, and go through your progressions. Especially when you have a young QB you're not going to let them make too many checks at the line or audible out of bad looks because they don't know what they're looking at yet. However, every offense in the country rely's on broken plays that turn in to big plays regardless of how well they function according to the system. I don't think any of us know quite yet which of our QB's is best at making broken plays big plays, but I know coach Lynch is not going to handicap them by saying they need to stay in a box. They'll have the liberty to scramble and try and make plays, and they have their rules (like every QB in the country) that keep them from making a bad play worse. So sure, they're young and we'll have to limit what they call and what we take in to a game week but that does not make them a game manager. Take care of the ball, hit your big plays when they're there, and if one of them is clearly good at making big plays happen off script then we'll see it pretty quickly.

McHargue..gotta push back and disagree with you on this one. You and Chase were not game managers.

Both of you made plays with your mind, your feet, and your arm (and your heart when hurt)....and the results may have been more W's than all the other QB's in the DB era combined.

Unfortunately, we have not seen Glaesman or Smalls yet but what we have seen of the other two is that they are game managers who have not shown that ability to go beyond what they are coached to do which is run the play called and not make it through progressions, on-the-line checks, making positive things happen from broken plays, etc.

In Australia, I hope DB has the same confidence in one of the new Freshman that he had in you before that Texas game many years ago. That was one of his best coaching decisions.

I don't know about that. Granato hasn't shown anything. He's barely played. Tyner showed some good flashes against UTEP last year and was horrible against Stanford.

Too early to judge either one IMO. In the video posted on Twitter today, I caught a couple of glimpses and it appeared to be Tyner running with the first team O.

link to video plz?
08-09-2017 08:02 PM
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