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Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:50 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:22 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:20 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I assume you're right that we don't have them because they don't apply. I doubt they don't apply because there is no way to coast - there are definitely majors at Rice that are less rigorous. I find the most likely reason they don't apply is because Rice does not have the same prestige or recognition like Stanford or the Ivies.

+1000...and/or they have no desire to go to school in Texas. Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

BTW, we currently do have Dan Rather's grandchild on campus.

I think you overplay the whole "Texas" thing (which is politically motivated I think). Tulane draws primarily from the northeast and Louisiana is by far the more "backwards" state.

Vanderbilt, Emory, and others also do a far better job drawing from the northeast and they're in red states.

No, I'm not overplaying the whole "Texas" thing. I got it directly from the Head of Acceptance/Admissions last year.

I'm not denying that admissions thinks that is the issue. Why is that an issue is my question? Are we not branding ourselves properly? Why do people have desire to go to school in Tennessee but not Texas, a state with far greater cultural/racial diversity, economic opportunity, and entertainment options?

Additionally, why are Americans migrating to Texas (as shown by population growth), but students are not?

I personally think it's because our branding sucks.

- perception of houston != perception of new orleans.
- not confident that emory draws more widely than we do
- but agreed that branding is a major issue
08-01-2017 05:59 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:50 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:22 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:20 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I assume you're right that we don't have them because they don't apply. I doubt they don't apply because there is no way to coast - there are definitely majors at Rice that are less rigorous. I find the most likely reason they don't apply is because Rice does not have the same prestige or recognition like Stanford or the Ivies.

+1000...and/or they have no desire to go to school in Texas. Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

BTW, we currently do have Dan Rather's grandchild on campus.

I think you overplay the whole "Texas" thing (which is politically motivated I think). Tulane draws primarily from the northeast and Louisiana is by far the more "backwards" state.

Vanderbilt, Emory, and others also do a far better job drawing from the northeast and they're in red states.

No, I'm not overplaying the whole "Texas" thing. I got it directly from the Head of Acceptance/Admissions last year.

I'm not denying that admissions thinks that is the issue. Why is that an issue is my question? Are we not branding ourselves properly? Why do people have desire to go to school in Tennessee but not Texas, a state with far greater cultural/racial diversity, economic opportunity, and entertainment options?

Additionally, why are Americans migrating to Texas (as shown by population growth), but students are not?

I personally think it's because our branding sucks.

People don't go to Tulane because of Louisiana, they go because of NOLA. Vanderbilt has Nasjeville and the SEC. Both of those cities are more "desirable" to college students for a number of obvious reasons.

Emory is the outlier, and I think they just do a better job marketing themselves because they have to.

Rice is definitely not helped because of its location from a brand perspective. When was the last time a college age student vacationed in Houston?
08-01-2017 06:00 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:50 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:22 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:20 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I think you overplay the whole "Texas" thing (which is politically motivated I think). Tulane draws primarily from the northeast and Louisiana is by far the more "backwards" state.

Vanderbilt, Emory, and others also do a far better job drawing from the northeast and they're in red states.

No, I'm not overplaying the whole "Texas" thing. I got it directly from the Head of Acceptance/Admissions last year.

I'm not denying that admissions thinks that is the issue. Why is that an issue is my question? Are we not branding ourselves properly? Why do people have desire to go to school in Tennessee but not Texas, a state with far greater cultural/racial diversity, economic opportunity, and entertainment options?

Additionally, why are Americans migrating to Texas (as shown by population growth), but students are not?

I personally think it's because our branding sucks.

I'd be interested in seeing how folks from different areas of the country rank the attractiveness (for the sake of living and/or working) of the following southern U.S. cities:
  • Raleigh (RTP metro)
  • Charlotte
  • Nashville
  • Atlanta
  • New Orleans
  • Dallas (DFW metro)
  • Houston
  • San Antonio
  • Orlando
  • Miami
From my experience with Rice applicants and fellow professionals, Rice does have an excellent academic reputation, as we'd expect, especially associated with medical/biological/science/engineering research.

But I suspect that Houston's reputation as a place to live is not nearly as high with the non-Texas/non-Southeast public -- relative to other southern cities -- as those who have already experienced Houston's many benefits would rate it.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2017 06:21 PM by Almadenmike.)
08-01-2017 06:15 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

Because they can, and in many cases, already have.
08-01-2017 07:26 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 07:26 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

Because they can, and in many cases, already have.

George, that's just a bunch of totally unsubstantiated BS.
08-01-2017 07:29 PM
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OwlWind Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Princeton Review
As a Rice alumnus from the Pacific NW, I can shed a bit of light on the Texas perception issue, at least coming from my neck of the woods. Simply put, a large number of people up there think of Texas as a sweaty, backwards state filled with religious and gun crazed nut jobs. I get a few reactions when I tell people I live in Houston. The first is "Oh, interesting... so when will you come back to the NW? Do you actually like it there?" Another is "I'm sorry." There are a lot of "oh, is there actually anything to do there? Does everyone carry a gun?" Another memorable one, from a high school teacher no less, was "I heard Houston is the sweatiest city in the country, good luck!"

My favorite way to respond to these disparaging (in tone or actual content) comments is simply, "So, have you ever been to Texas/Houston?" Which invariably is answered with a no. For what it's worth, I do think that the recent slate of news related to the increasing diversity of Houston/Texas is having an effect. It's just hard to change people like my neighbor's minds who remarked "You're moving to Texas? But that means you'll have to live with Texans!"
08-01-2017 07:44 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Online
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Post: #27
RE: Princeton Review
My family is from the Northeast and several went to Ivy League schools (Columbia and Brown). They all talk badly about Texas in general because they are all very liberal, but all are very aware that Rice is a great school. I would think the Texas perception issue might be more of a factor for post-college career plans than attending a school itself.
08-01-2017 08:42 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 08:42 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  My family is from the Northeast and several went to Ivy League schools (Columbia and Brown). They all talk badly about Texas in general because they are all very liberal, but all are very aware that Rice is a great school. I would think the Texas perception issue might be more of a factor for post-college career plans than attending a school itself.

Again, there's no "I would think" about it. Have a discussion with the Admissions department and they'll tell you the Texas perception issue is a very real impediment in attracting West Coast and Northeast students. They're working the issue, but it's real. Similarly, for NE students, Nashville and New Orleans are perceived as much more attractive locations than Houston. Again, I'll admit it's a perception issue, but it does effect admission.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2017 09:49 PM by waltgreenberg.)
08-01-2017 09:48 PM
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jhruzek Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Princeton Review
Given that they had over 100 applicants per spot they had open, why is this an issue at all?
08-01-2017 11:14 PM
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davidw Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Princeton Review
Well, in the end everyone usually gets what they deserve. If northern/left coast kids labor under misconceptions, then that just leaves a spot open for the kids that don't. No prob.
08-02-2017 08:55 AM
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JSA Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Princeton Review
I remember several years back when the admissions director got in some hot water for saying if he could
fill all the slots with kids from Texas, he would.
08-02-2017 08:58 AM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Princeton Review
(08-02-2017 08:55 AM)davidw Wrote:  Well, in the end everyone usually gets what they deserve. If northern/left coast kids labor under misconceptions, then that just leaves a spot open for the kids that don't. No prob.

Not misconception.

Bigotry, prejudice and irony.

My daughter went to an international school here. She had a great Race Relations class with a great teacher.

In a class discussion, a large group of students (it's a very liberal school) started talking about all the hateful Christians in this country and particularly the South.

My daughter asked them specifically what they meant. They spouted off several 'facts' about Christians. She asked them if they had ever met anyone who met their description. They said no. She asked them if they felt SHE met their description. They unanimously said no.

My daughter was of course 'different'. Well "that doesn't apply to you."

The teacher was very pleased with the interchange after it all was said and done.
08-02-2017 09:06 AM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Princeton Review
(08-02-2017 09:06 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 08:55 AM)davidw Wrote:  Well, in the end everyone usually gets what they deserve. If northern/left coast kids labor under misconceptions, then that just leaves a spot open for the kids that don't. No prob.

Not misconception.

Bigotry, prejudice and irony.


My daughter went to an international school here. She had a great Race Relations class with a great teacher.

In a class discussion, a large group of students (it's a very liberal school) started talking about all the hateful Christians in this country and particularly the South.

My daughter asked them specifically what they meant. They spouted off several 'facts' about Christians. She asked them if they had ever met anyone who met their description. They said no. She asked them if they felt SHE met their description. They unanimously said no.

My daughter was of course 'different'. Well "that doesn't apply to you."

The teacher was very pleased with the interchange after it all was said and done.

Some of this is misconception, but some of it is real...and it's not just the perception of the kids applying, but their parents and friends that have an influence.

Calling it bigotry, prejudice and irony is special. One could say the exact same thing about some Texans view of Northeasterners and West Coasters.
08-02-2017 09:11 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Princeton Review
I've run into this image others from far away have of Texans as a bunch of tobacco-chewing, gun-toting, racist, illiterate, religious types. Usually they just wrap the whole package up in the word "rednecks".

TV doesn't help. Anybody want to go live in an entire state populated with people like Sheldon's mother? (Big Bang Theory). I presume the upcoming series Young Sheldon will only exacerbate the image.

I have a completely different image of what redneck means. But then, I know some.

I can see why some people would not want to go to school with a bunch of rednecks in a redneck state, if that is their understanding of what 'redneck" means.

The promotional videos that some here do not like do a good job of refuting that image, I think. At least they don't show anybody as "future doctor - cow tipper".
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 10:02 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-02-2017 10:02 AM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Princeton Review
(08-02-2017 10:02 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I've run into this image others from far away have of Texans as a bunch of tobacco-chewing, gun-toting, racist, illiterate, religious types. Usually they just wrap the whole package up in the word "rednecks".

TV doesn't help. Anybody want to go live in an entire state populated with people like Sheldon's mother? (Big Bang Theory). I presume the upcoming series Young Sheldon will only exacerbate the image.

I have a completely different image of what redneck means. But then, I know some.

I can see why some people would not want to go to school with a bunch of rednecks in a redneck state, if that is their understanding of what 'redneck" means.

The promotional videos that some here do not like do a good job of refuting that image, I think. At least they don't show anybody as "future doctor - cow tipper".

Buddy, IMO, it's not so much the redneck image, but more the perceptions surrounding politics and religion...and the very real issue some have with the hot, humid weather (which can be VERY unpleasant for those who have not experienced it and who are not used to it). It's the weather which is the primary reason I have not bought a second home in Houston (given I'm on campus 40 - 60 days a year). And with regards to politics and social issues, I have learned to be VERY mindful of what I say and, even with that, I inevitably get brought into such uncomfortable discussions more frequently than I'd like. That's reality.
08-02-2017 10:14 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Princeton Review
(08-02-2017 10:14 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 10:02 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I've run into this image others from far away have of Texans as a bunch of tobacco-chewing, gun-toting, racist, illiterate, religious types. Usually they just wrap the whole package up in the word "rednecks".

TV doesn't help. Anybody want to go live in an entire state populated with people like Sheldon's mother? (Big Bang Theory). I presume the upcoming series Young Sheldon will only exacerbate the image.

I have a completely different image of what redneck means. But then, I know some.

I can see why some people would not want to go to school with a bunch of rednecks in a redneck state, if that is their understanding of what 'redneck" means.

The promotional videos that some here do not like do a good job of refuting that image, I think. At least they don't show anybody as "future doctor - cow tipper".

Buddy, IMO, it's not so much the redneck image, but more the perceptions surrounding politics and religion...and the very real issue some have with the hot, humid weather (which can be VERY unpleasant for those who have not experienced it and who are not used to it). It's the weather which is the primary reason I have not bought a second home in Houston (given I'm on campus 40 - 60 days a year). And with regards to politics and social issues, I have learned to be VERY mindful of what I say and, even with that, I inevitably get brought into such uncomfortable discussions more frequently than I'd like. That's reality.

The redneck image is brought up a lot in discussions of politics and religion. For example, the bathroom bill. What else can a right thinking Yankee expect of a bunch of rednecks? And why should that Yankee want to go live down there as if in the Dark Ages?


Heat and humidity. You have a point - nobody likes the weather in Houston, not even Texans. When I attended Rice, I lived in the old section of a college, with no AC. I could watch the green air from Pasadena waft by at night. Nobody complained, not even the New Yorkers who lived down the hall from me. But that was a long time ago. Expectations are different now.
08-02-2017 10:32 AM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Princeton Review
(08-02-2017 09:11 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 09:06 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 08:55 AM)davidw Wrote:  Well, in the end everyone usually gets what they deserve. If northern/left coast kids labor under misconceptions, then that just leaves a spot open for the kids that don't. No prob.

Not misconception.

Bigotry, prejudice and irony.


My daughter went to an international school here. She had a great Race Relations class with a great teacher.

In a class discussion, a large group of students (it's a very liberal school) started talking about all the hateful Christians in this country and particularly the South.

My daughter asked them specifically what they meant. They spouted off several 'facts' about Christians. She asked them if they had ever met anyone who met their description. They said no. She asked them if they felt SHE met their description. They unanimously said no.

My daughter was of course 'different'. Well "that doesn't apply to you."

The teacher was very pleased with the interchange after it all was said and done.

Some of this is misconception, but some of it is real...and it's not just the perception of the kids applying, but their parents and friends that have an influence.

Calling it bigotry, prejudice and irony is special. One could say the exact same thing about some Texans view of Northeasterners and West Coasters.

I agree with you 100%.

The difference is that most non-southern liberals feel justified in doing it because they are 'smarter' or 'superior', because people who are different than them (as described in this thread "religious" or "gun crazed") are either bigots or prejudiced.

The irony is that the definitions of prejudice and bigotry are broad enough to encompass intellectual or moral judgments as well as racial, sexist, or religious ones.

The vast majority of people who live in Chicago (where you currently reside, IIRC) have no connection to the obscene homicide rates publicized nationally.
08-02-2017 11:10 AM
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Gravy Owl Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Princeton Review
(08-02-2017 11:10 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  The difference is that most non-southern liberals feel justified in doing it...

Most?
08-02-2017 12:55 PM
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JSA Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Princeton Review
To be fair, how many Texans think California is the "land of fruits and nuts?"
I'm from Louisiana. My family was not thrilled when I was considering grad school in NYC.
08-02-2017 01:21 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Princeton Review
A historic irony is that it was bigotry and prejudice in the northeast that put southern schools like Tulane and Emory on the national map in the first place.
08-02-2017 02:41 PM
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