If kids are taught, from the very first, that football is played with the shoulders, arms, and hands ... and that you must target opposing players between their chest and waist .... and that you must try to avoid using any part of your head, at all .... I just see no reason why football shouldn't be able to thrive, while driving down head trauma to a minimum.

Guess we'll see if that works ...

(08-07-2017 11:42 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  If kids are taught, from the very first, that football is played with the shoulders, arms, and hands ... and that you must target opposing players between their chest and waist .... and that you must try to avoid using any part of your head, at all .... I just see no reason why football shouldn't be able to thrive, while driving down head trauma to a minimum.

Guess we'll see if that works ...

They key will be to enforce a heavy penalty.

(08-07-2017 10:54 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 10:24 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm happen to be shown wrong, but I'm pretty sure the top participation sports for youth through high school girls are soccer, volleyball, basketball, and softball. For boys, thinking soccer, football, basketball, and baseball.

I'm sure you are correct. But I think the anti-football crowd is ignoring the demographics of football. It's not 5'5-5'10 white kids are filling college football rosters and going on to the NFL. And LAX & Soccer are not very popular in many African American families.

There are economic reasons for that - (and has nothing to do with the cost of playing each sport)

1) Scholarship - Men's D1 scholarships - total of 895 max offered NATIONWIDE for men's Lacrosse. Soccer TOTAL offers 2000 nationwide. SEC alone offers 1190 Football schollies. Total of 18K DI football schollies offered (including FCS).

2) Pro sports - the allure of going pro and making millions (even if the odds are stacked against) draws people to football and basketball. Not the draw to Soccer (yet) or Lacrosse.

Would also make the following argument for football especially -- doesn't work so much for basketball:

- you can literally jump into the sport in high school having never played in youth levels and be a star, given the right situation. College coaches in turn salivate over measurables and potential. Even the NFL does it to some degree.


Not that skills aren't important, especially at QB. But for the rest of the positions, raw athletic ability and size are valued at a high premium.

Whereas with soccer and probably lacrosse, you need really high skills to advance in the sport. And those skills have to be developed early. This is probably true in basketball too, though perhaps to a slightly less degree.

(08-07-2017 10:32 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 09:11 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Enjoy college football this year, it may be gone in 20 years

There is zero justification to eliminate football. First, I'm not sure how you could legally force people to not play a sport. Second, those same standards would have to apply to other sports are it would be deemed discrimination. Finally, college football is literally a culture in many places.

college football will die because the schools will no longer want to have football teams - just like I'm sure people in 1985 thought smoking would always be allowed in bars. The government didn't outlaw boxing and they won't outlaw football. Rather, schools will drop teams. My guess is the Ivy League schools will end football within 10 years.

(08-07-2017 06:44 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 10:32 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 09:11 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Enjoy college football this year, it may be gone in 20 years

There is zero justification to eliminate football. First, I'm not sure how you could legally force people to not play a sport. Second, those same standards would have to apply to other sports are it would be deemed discrimination. Finally, college football is literally a culture in many places.

college football will die because the schools will no longer want to have football teams - just like I'm sure people in 1985 thought smoking would always be allowed in bars. The government didn't outlaw boxing and they won't outlaw football. Rather, schools will drop teams. My guess is the Ivy League schools will end football within 10 years.

Dude seriously, what are you high on?

(08-05-2017 03:16 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 06:00 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Wanna fix the concussion issue? Take the hard helmets away and put the leather back on. They will stop using their heads as a weapon. I wish we had studies on the old time players who played the game like this.

Players don't lead with their head on purpose all the time, it is often done in accidental circumstances. Instead of a concussion, you're talking about players being paralyzed.

What does the type of helmet have to do with paralysis?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2017/08/07/football-deathwatch-high-school-edition/2/

The National Federation of State High School Associations released its annual participation numbers on Monday, and it's arguable that the news isn’t good for high school football. Participation is up to an all-time high of 7,963,535 student-athletes, but participation in high school football has dropped for the sixth time in seven years. 25,901 fewer student-athletes participated in football than in 2015-2016, the largest drop of any sport nationwide. However, there are still over a million student-athletes are participating in the sport, still the highest for a sport in the nation.

In terms of high schools offering the sport, football is fifth nationally behind basketball, track and field, baseball and cross country. With 14,099 high schools offering football, the decrease of 25,901 participants amounts to fewer than two individuals (1.8) per school, and an overall decrease of 2.5 percent.

(08-08-2017 07:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2017/08/07/football-deathwatch-high-school-edition/2/

The National Federation of State High School Associations released its annual participation numbers on Monday, and it's arguable that the news isn’t good for high school football. Participation is up to an all-time high of 7,963,535 student-athletes, but participation in high school football has dropped for the sixth time in seven years. 25,901 fewer student-athletes participated in football than in 2015-2016, the largest drop of any sport nationwide. However, there are still over a million student-athletes are participating in the sport, still the highest for a sport in the nation.

In terms of high schools offering the sport, football is fifth nationally behind basketball, track and field, baseball and cross country. With 14,099 high schools offering football, the decrease of 25,901 participants amounts to fewer than two individuals (1.8) per school, and an overall decrease of 2.5 percent.

This just reaffirms that football is not going anywhere. The supply of players has always massively exceeded the demand. Just think about how many divisions we have at the collegiate level. And many people are willing to play on college teams that don't even offer a scholarship or path to the NFL.

And it's a good thing we are seeing less participation at the high school level. Football teams got too big because schools are afraid to tell kids they suck. That has always taken time and resources away from the kids who are actually good enough to play at the college level.

(08-08-2017 10:25 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 07:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2017/08/07/football-deathwatch-high-school-edition/2/

The National Federation of State High School Associations released its annual participation numbers on Monday, and it's arguable that the news isn’t good for high school football. Participation is up to an all-time high of 7,963,535 student-athletes, but participation in high school football has dropped for the sixth time in seven years. 25,901 fewer student-athletes participated in football than in 2015-2016, the largest drop of any sport nationwide. However, there are still over a million student-athletes are participating in the sport, still the highest for a sport in the nation.

In terms of high schools offering the sport, football is fifth nationally behind basketball, track and field, baseball and cross country. With 14,099 high schools offering football, the decrease of 25,901 participants amounts to fewer than two individuals (1.8) per school, and an overall decrease of 2.5 percent.

This just reaffirms that football is not going anywhere. The supply of players has always massively exceeded the demand. Just think about how many divisions we have at the collegiate level. And many people are willing to play on college teams that don't even offer a scholarship or path to the NFL.

And it's a good thing we are seeing less participation at the high school level. Football teams got too big because schools are afraid to tell kids they suck. That has always taken time and resources away from the kids who are actually good enough to play at the college level.

I agree to an extent. Take Illinois for instance. It's in the middle of a nine-year decline in participation in football. In 2008, 51,334 students played football, and there were 42,682 students playing football in Illinois in 2016-17. Michigan's participation has gone down. Wisconsin's has gone down. California's has gone down. Ohio has gone down. However, conversely, Texas has gone up, as has Florida, Alabama, Louisiana and Georgia.

I think you will see continue to see a downward trend in participants in the Midwest, West, and Northeast, but continue to see a rise in the South and Southeast. Lacrosse is booming here in the Midwest. So, while high school football may not be on life support, we are definitely seeing a transition in where those numbers in participation are coming from.

Hate to say it ... but it also possible that at least some of the incidents where high school players have gotten serious hurt could be where it's kids who just aren't big enough or athletic enough and perhaps "shouldn't have been out there".

Can definitely see where a parent says to a kid "Look, you have zero chance to play in college .... why do you want to spend a bunch of time and energy just to be on the high school team? What does that get you? It takes time away where you could be working on homework or working a job"


A lot of that would be taken care of if we switched to club teams, instead of school teams. But that's not the tradition in America, and I'm not expecting that to change any time soon. Way too much tradition and pride in the idea of "my school is better than your school .... because our school football team beat your's".

(08-08-2017 10:43 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 10:25 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 07:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2017/08/07/football-deathwatch-high-school-edition/2/

The National Federation of State High School Associations released its annual participation numbers on Monday, and it's arguable that the news isn’t good for high school football. Participation is up to an all-time high of 7,963,535 student-athletes, but participation in high school football has dropped for the sixth time in seven years. 25,901 fewer student-athletes participated in football than in 2015-2016, the largest drop of any sport nationwide. However, there are still over a million student-athletes are participating in the sport, still the highest for a sport in the nation.

In terms of high schools offering the sport, football is fifth nationally behind basketball, track and field, baseball and cross country. With 14,099 high schools offering football, the decrease of 25,901 participants amounts to fewer than two individuals (1.8) per school, and an overall decrease of 2.5 percent.

This just reaffirms that football is not going anywhere. The supply of players has always massively exceeded the demand. Just think about how many divisions we have at the collegiate level. And many people are willing to play on college teams that don't even offer a scholarship or path to the NFL.

And it's a good thing we are seeing less participation at the high school level. Football teams got too big because schools are afraid to tell kids they suck. That has always taken time and resources away from the kids who are actually good enough to play at the college level.

I agree to an extent. Take Illinois for instance. It's in the middle of a nine-year decline in participation in football. In 2008, 51,334 students played football, and there were 42,682 students playing football in Illinois in 2016-17. Michigan's participation has gone down. Wisconsin's has gone down. California's has gone down. Ohio has gone down. However, conversely, Texas has gone up, as has Florida, Alabama, Louisiana and Georgia.

I think you will see continue to see a downward trend in participants in the Midwest, West, and Northeast, but continue to see a rise in the South and Southeast. Lacrosse is booming here in the Midwest. So, while high school football may not be on life support, we are definitely seeing a transition in where those numbers in participation are coming from.

I wonder how much weather plays into that factor. All of those states with the exception of California are cold weather states.

And California is just a weird case lol. North California is probably where the decline is coming from. It can get pretty cold, land is becoming scarce in the metro areas, and the African American population is becoming extremely low in some cities. Southern California which is what the world thinks of when they say California is where the football talent and good weather is.

And not to get political but the definition of a Dad in the Bay area has changed.

NorCal the November temperatures are in the mid-60s. Really nice weather for Football (typical of much of the Bay Area). Definitely not a factor. To say weather is grasping at straws.
http://www.intellicast.com/local/history...n=USCA0783

The decline is national. 1.8 players per year is a pretty steep decline, 2.5%. Project that 10 years and you are talking about the average team going from 75-80 boys 5 years ago to 50-55 by 2027. Trojan is delusional to think it's a one time decline. There are no signs it is slowing up, and it may only be accelerating.

California is just a few years ahead of the Midwest, a few years more ahead of the South. The decline will be slower in the "black belt" of the South (and in CA your Compton, Inglewood, LBC areas ... but Coyote Creek in SJ declining says that even African-Americans are starting to have mothers say no). Whites will continue to drop out more rapidly, Asians just never got in it in any appreciable numbers.

Would also say that Hispanics didn't largely get into it.

Blacks, whites, and Pacific Islander ethnicities are the large bulk of rosters.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/2030...ball-drill

(08-08-2017 02:27 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-05-2017 03:16 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 06:00 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Wanna fix the concussion issue? Take the hard helmets away and put the leather back on. They will stop using their heads as a weapon. I wish we had studies on the old time players who played the game like this.

Players don't lead with their head on purpose all the time, it is often done in accidental circumstances. Instead of a concussion, you're talking about players being paralyzed.

What does the type of helmet have to do with paralysis?

Meaning that if you take off hard helmets, injuries will only increase. Modern athletes are bigger than the players who played with leather helmets or no helmets at all 60-100 years ago.

From my area, football is trending down. It is not dramatic as of today.

We saw it last year when our youth football teams lost a lot of players. The freshman high school team was light and most players played both offense and defense. JV was down. High School varsity was down.

Football is (and was) a big thing for our community. We will see this fall if the numbers continue to decline.

Football will continue to be a big thing, long after we're all in the ground. The NFL and major college football, in particular.

The question that remains though: does every high school need to have a football team?? Does the sport need to be that ubiquitous for our youth and high school athletes? Should it be a "right of manhood", or something to that effect, to have at least tried to play the game at an organized level in some point of your growing up?

The media likes non stories and likes this one in particular. Football isn't going anywhere.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(08-10-2017 07:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/2030...ball-drill

Coaches need to be held criminally responsible for this.