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How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
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sctvman Offline
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Post: #101
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-05-2017 09:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't get that Notre Dame mystique. What is this, 1970? At least BYU is the only sizable LDS institution. There are plenty of other Catholic schools, granted only one more at this level of D-I and media hype aside, Notre Dame hasn't even mattered for an entire generation minus a few seasons.

It's crazy, I would have figured the majority of their diehards would have died out by now. I guess not.

The mystique is in the northeast and midwest. Especially in places such as New England and the New York area. A lot of people are Boston/NY/Chicago sports fans, and are Notre Dame football fans. Notre Dame also gets the people who go to Catholic high schools who were raised Catholic. ND and Oregon generally have the most casual fans.

Remember a few years back when a ton of people followed Oregon because of all their customizable uniforms in NCAA and the Nike brand? A couple average/bad seasons, and now they're just another regional team.

Notre Dame against TEMPLE on Saturday night in 2015 drew 4.4 million households against I believe the World Series. They are still a major draw.

Going to the ACC helps them in the more populated southern part of the country. Now, in markets like Atlanta and Charlotte that didn't care as much before, they can market that ND will play 5 ACC games each year.
09-06-2017 12:48 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #102
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
Obviously they're a big draw. I still don't get it. They pretty much have been irrelevant for a generation, except a few seasons and a lot of unwarranted hype.
09-06-2017 01:33 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #103
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 01:33 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Obviously they're a big draw. I still don't get it. They pretty much have been irrelevant for a generation, except a few seasons and a lot of unwarranted hype.

I have several Catholic friends who feel it is some religious deal to like and support ND.

I'm Catholic and do not feel the same way.

I've enjoyed their irrelevancy and I'm happy to see it is likely to continue unabated for a very long time.
09-06-2017 01:37 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #104
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-05-2017 05:51 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Radio networks are unimportant. Only poor old people listen to the radio. Advertisers don't care about poor old people.

Lol!!! Tell me that again when you are stuck in traffic & the game is on!!! I'll admit it's different listening to a game on the radio, but it's still fun and the radio broadcasters seem to have twenty times the enthusiasm of tv broadcasters who rarely get excited for games anymore. Ultimate viewing pleasure, IMO, is to turn on the tv, mute it, then grab a radio and listen to the game on the radio as you watch.
09-06-2017 01:47 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #105
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
[Image: Nationals.jpg]

[Image: Notre-Dame-map.png]


Matches up?
09-06-2017 04:31 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #106
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 12:48 AM)sctvman Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 09:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't get that Notre Dame mystique. What is this, 1970? At least BYU is the only sizable LDS institution. There are plenty of other Catholic schools, granted only one more at this level of D-I and media hype aside, Notre Dame hasn't even mattered for an entire generation minus a few seasons.

It's crazy, I would have figured the majority of their diehards would have died out by now. I guess not.

The mystique is in the northeast and midwest. Especially in places such as New England and the New York area. A lot of people are Boston/NY/Chicago sports fans, and are Notre Dame football fans. Notre Dame also gets the people who go to Catholic high schools who were raised Catholic. ND and Oregon generally have the most casual fans.

Remember a few years back when a ton of people followed Oregon because of all their customizable uniforms in NCAA and the Nike brand? A couple average/bad seasons, and now they're just another regional team.

Notre Dame against TEMPLE on Saturday night in 2015 drew 4.4 million households against I believe the World Series. They are still a major draw.

Going to the ACC helps them in the more populated southern part of the country. Now, in markets like Atlanta and Charlotte that didn't care as much before, they can market that ND will play 5 ACC games each year.
I know that in Chicago they are still THE college football team.

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09-06-2017 07:43 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #107
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 01:33 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Obviously they're a big draw. I still don't get it. They pretty much have been irrelevant for a generation, except a few seasons and a lot of unwarranted hype.
Ok ne could say that about a lot of state flagships but Texas is still Texas despite being irrelevant for over a decade.

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09-06-2017 07:44 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #108
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 01:47 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 05:51 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Radio networks are unimportant. Only poor old people listen to the radio. Advertisers don't care about poor old people.

Lol!!! Tell me that again when you are stuck in traffic & the game is on!!! I'll admit it's different listening to a game on the radio, but it's still fun and the radio broadcasters seem to have twenty times the enthusiasm of tv broadcasters who rarely get excited for games anymore. Ultimate viewing pleasure, IMO, is to turn on the tv, mute it, then grab a radio and listen to the game on the radio as you watch.
I used to work every Saturday night in n college which was also when a lot of Braves games and GSU basketball games were on. I became a long suffering fan of both die to the enthusiasm of radio broadcasters.

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09-06-2017 07:46 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #109
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(08-03-2017 09:40 AM)billyjack Wrote:  Nate Silver put this together several years ago:

https://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...haos/?_r=0

This analysis has always made little sense to me. E.g., unless I'm reading it wrong, he's contending that Georgia Tech has (a) a lot more fans than Georgia, and (b) way more fans, almost twice as many, as FSU, and is thus presumably more valuable than both.

Anyone with the most cursory knowledge of college football knows that this is absurd, that in both comparisons the exact opposite is true.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 07:58 AM by quo vadis.)
09-06-2017 07:54 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #110
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-05-2017 09:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't get that Notre Dame mystique. What is this, 1970? At least BYU is the only sizable LDS institution. There are plenty of other Catholic schools, granted only one more at this level of D-I and media hype aside, Notre Dame hasn't even mattered for an entire generation minus a few seasons.

It's crazy, I would have figured the majority of their diehards would have died out by now. I guess not.

Current cheapest prices on Stubhub to get into two big games this weekend:

#5 Oklahoma @ #2 Ohio State .... $149

#15 Georgia @ #25 Notre Dame ..... $424

"Notre Dame ticket drama continues as desperate UGA fans anxiously await their arrival":

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/notr...it-arrival

If you don't understand Notre Dame's fame, you don't understand college football. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 08:09 AM by quo vadis.)
09-06-2017 08:02 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #111
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 07:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-03-2017 09:40 AM)billyjack Wrote:  Nate Silver put this together several years ago:

https://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...haos/?_r=0

This analysis has always made little sense to me. E.g., unless I'm reading it wrong, he's contending that Georgia Tech has (a) a lot more fans than Georgia, and (b) way more fans, almost twice as many, as FSU, and is thus presumably more valuable than both.

Anyone with the most cursory knowledge of college football knows that this is absurd, that in both comparisons the exact opposite is true.

Yeah this Silver study has been around for several years and has been debunked many times (for multiple reasons) on this forum. Invariably someone always seem to bring it up every year as if they found something new.
09-06-2017 08:16 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #112
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-05-2017 10:00 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 06:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Shouldn't surprise anyone given the # of Catholics and Irish descendents. It's still a bit odd to me that somebody would root for a team based on Irish ancestry. That's... I'd guess 1/3 of the USA somewhere down the line. I know that I have some on both sides.

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The majority of this country's so-called Irish people are actually of Scottish origin i.e. Scots-Irish with a little Anglo-Irish mixed in.

I'd say either still counts. Still Irish blood... but I get your point. I think my son has a little more Irish blood than I do. I know that his maternal grandmother has an Irish last name. You can see it in his facial features and hair color a little. Maybe we should just become Notre Dame t-shirt fans. It's bound to be more fun than being an ECU fan. 03-weeping
09-06-2017 08:51 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #113
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 04:31 AM)TerryD Wrote:  [Image: Nationals.jpg]

[Image: Notre-Dame-map.png]

Matches up?

Sort of... they're everywhere that's for sure. Seems like everybody I grew up with has at least a little bit. How much do you need to be a Notre Dame fan? 03-lmfao
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 08:53 AM by Hood-rich.)
09-06-2017 08:52 AM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #114
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-05-2017 10:00 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 06:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Shouldn't surprise anyone given the # of Catholics and Irish descendents. It's still a bit odd to me that somebody would root for a team based on Irish ancestry. That's... I'd guess 1/3 of the USA somewhere down the line. I know that I have some on both sides.

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The majority of this country's so-called Irish people are actually of Scottish origin i.e. Scots-Irish with a little Anglo-Irish mixed in.

Maybe down South, but here in the Northeast and Midwest its Irish Catholic, from actual Ireland not Scotch Irish from Northern Ireland.
09-06-2017 08:58 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #115
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 07:44 AM)panama Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:33 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Obviously they're a big draw. I still don't get it. They pretty much have been irrelevant for a generation, except a few seasons and a lot of unwarranted hype.
Ok ne could say that about a lot of state flagships but Texas is still Texas despite being irrelevant for over a decade.

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A decade is not a generation ago and, oh yeah, wasn't Texas competing for a national title not that long ago? Texas never went as long without competing for a national title as Notre Dame did, not in recent history.
09-06-2017 09:28 AM
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Post: #116
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 04:31 AM)TerryD Wrote:  [Image: Nationals.jpg]

[Image: Notre-Dame-map.png]


Matches up?

I really want to quote Blazing Saddles right now. But I won't.
09-06-2017 09:35 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #117
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 08:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 09:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't get that Notre Dame mystique. What is this, 1970? At least BYU is the only sizable LDS institution. There are plenty of other Catholic schools, granted only one more at this level of D-I and media hype aside, Notre Dame hasn't even mattered for an entire generation minus a few seasons.

It's crazy, I would have figured the majority of their diehards would have died out by now. I guess not.

Current cheapest prices on Stubhub to get into two big games this weekend:

#5 Oklahoma @ #2 Ohio State .... $149

#15 Georgia @ #25 Notre Dame ..... $424

"Notre Dame ticket drama continues as desperate UGA fans anxiously await their arrival":

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/notr...it-arrival

If you don't understand Notre Dame's fame, you don't understand college football. 07-coffee3

I clearly hinted that their time has passed, though apparently not. Of course they're immensely popular, that's what I don't understand. It's not like they're the only Catholic school in the country, there's plenty in the northeast even aside from "meh" Boston College. It's not as if they have a virtual monopoly like BYU.
09-06-2017 09:49 AM
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #118
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 09:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 09:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't get that Notre Dame mystique. What is this, 1970? At least BYU is the only sizable LDS institution. There are plenty of other Catholic schools, granted only one more at this level of D-I and media hype aside, Notre Dame hasn't even mattered for an entire generation minus a few seasons.

It's crazy, I would have figured the majority of their diehards would have died out by now. I guess not.

Current cheapest prices on Stubhub to get into two big games this weekend:

#5 Oklahoma @ #2 Ohio State .... $149

#15 Georgia @ #25 Notre Dame ..... $424

"Notre Dame ticket drama continues as desperate UGA fans anxiously await their arrival":

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/notr...it-arrival

If you don't understand Notre Dame's fame, you don't understand college football. 07-coffee3

I clearly hinted that their time has passed, though apparently not. Of course they're immensely popular, that's what I don't understand. It's not like they're the only Catholic school in the country, there's plenty in the northeast even aside from "meh" Boston College. It's not as if they have a virtual monopoly like BYU.

From a TV perspective, they do -- almost. They're on an OTA network when at home, no matter what. They already had tradition among the subway alumni in the Northeast, which was really bereft of college football.

While I'm a generation removed from being the stereotypical subway alumni New York (metro) fan of Irish descent rooting for Notre Dame because Jesus would come off the cross and personally ask you why you weren't, that thought process still crosses my mind. Since Notre Dame and my alma mater aren't in competition for bowl spots, I can root for them instead of having to hope they go 12-0 or 5-7.

That mentality will still take some time to go away.
09-06-2017 10:09 AM
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Post: #119
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 09:28 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 07:44 AM)panama Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:33 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Obviously they're a big draw. I still don't get it. They pretty much have been irrelevant for a generation, except a few seasons and a lot of unwarranted hype.
Ok ne could say that about a lot of state flagships but Texas is still Texas despite being irrelevant for over a decade.

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A decade is not a generation ago and, oh yeah, wasn't Texas competing for a national title not that long ago? Texas never went as long without competing for a national title as Notre Dame did, not in recent history.

I know that we use hyperbole here and I'm far from a Notre Dame fan, but ND did play in the national championship game in 2012 (and I'd say playing in the championship game would inherently qualify as "competing" for a national title). I'm getting old, but 2012 isn't *that* long ago.

I've said this before about the difference between marquee programs (like ND, Texas, Michigan, Alabama, etc.) and standard programs: a marquee program can be down for many years, but as soon as it has one flicker of competing again, it's as if all of those down years are instantly erased. In contrast, it takes many years for a standard program to build up a reputation... and all it takes is one bad year for it to be totally erased. (See Oregon and Michigan State now.) The marquee programs have lot more margin for error and their history matters a lot more compared to recent performance, whereas standard programs have no margin for error and their history is irrelevant compared to recent performance. That's just the nature of college football (and it has been that way for the last 75 years).
09-06-2017 10:11 AM
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Frank the Tank Online
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Post: #120
RE: How do you accurately determine a college team's market??
(09-06-2017 07:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-03-2017 09:40 AM)billyjack Wrote:  Nate Silver put this together several years ago:

https://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...haos/?_r=0

This analysis has always made little sense to me. E.g., unless I'm reading it wrong, he's contending that Georgia Tech has (a) a lot more fans than Georgia, and (b) way more fans, almost twice as many, as FSU, and is thus presumably more valuable than both.

Anyone with the most cursory knowledge of college football knows that this is absurd, that in both comparisons the exact opposite is true.

That analysis is based on the Common Census for sports fans, which is a bit more biased (IMHO) compared to the Facebook-based charts because sports fans had to proactively seek out that particular site and vote for their favorite teams (which means they also had an underlying intent/hope in showing that their favorite team was the top one in a particular area).

The Facebook data is actually much more neutral and, from my vantage point, looks much closer to the truth. I believe it's better because the counting of "likes" was based on people voluntarily sharing their favorite teams without any prompting, which is a fairly good proxy for determining whether someone is a "fan" or not. The problem with almost every other survey out there (even the good ones like the Pew Research Center) is that have questions that are either leading or provide binary or limited choices, so they do a poor job of measuring the *depth* of fandom. A person voluntarily "liking" a team on a Facebook page is a much better indicator of actual interest of that team compared to a pollster that will count a strong fan of a team and a weak fan of a team in the same manner. Is it perfect? No. However, it's as large of a relatively neutral data set that's out there (which is why Facebook also dominates digital advertising with Google since those are the two companies that have both the breadth and depth about its users far beyond anyone else).
09-06-2017 10:30 AM
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