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What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #21
RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-18-2017 11:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The Big West fell apart as a football league because the Cali schools had grown weary of adding far flung schools just for the purpose of keeping football afloat.

At the time the MWC split off from WAC, the WAC still had 8 members. UTEP, Hawaii, Fresno, TCU, Rice, Tulsa, SMU, and San Jose State. They quickly added Nevada from the Big West and thought they were stable.

Big West in comparison had:
All Sports + Football: Pacific, Utah State, New Mexico State, Nevada, North Texas, Boise State, Idaho
Non-Football: UC Santa Barbara, Long Beach State. CS Fullerton, UC Irvine, Cal Poly SLO.

The Big West had 12 full members and 7 football (soon 11/6 with the departure of Nevada)

There simply wasn't a way Big West could raid the WAC unless the Big West booted North Texas and the remaining WAC wanted to leave the Texas/Oklahoma schools.

Pacific dropped football after the 1995 season, prior to the formation of the MWC in 1999.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 11:20 AM by Nerdlinger.)
07-18-2017 11:20 AM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
Cali schools wanted to balance conf out,
Tex schools said no, they control the conf
Cali schools looked at B-W ['99 Ark St joined B-W FB only]
Tex schools backed off & voted Nev in
Now i imagind that WAC had contracts, exit fee's & BB credits
New B-W would have some merit, 10 FB & 15 BB
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 04:21 PM by templefootballfan.)
07-18-2017 03:57 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #23
RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-18-2017 11:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The Big West fell apart as a football league because the Cali schools had grown weary of adding far flung schools just for the purpose of keeping football afloat.

At the time the MWC split off from WAC, the WAC still had 8 members. UTEP, Hawaii, Fresno, TCU, Rice, Tulsa, SMU, and San Jose State. They quickly added Nevada from the Big West and thought they were stable.

Big West in comparison had:
All Sports + Football: Pacific, Utah State, New Mexico State, Nevada, North Texas, Boise State, Idaho
Non-Football: UC Santa Barbara, Long Beach State. CS Fullerton, UC Irvine, Cal Poly SLO.

The Big West had 12 full members and 7 football (soon 11/6 with the departure of Nevada)

There simply wasn't a way Big West could raid the WAC unless the Big West booted North Texas and the remaining WAC wanted to leave the Texas/Oklahoma schools.

The 6 California non-football schools would have had to be left behind to avoid being a 15 team behemoth and probably wrecking like the WAC did when it got bloated.

Ultimately what doomed the Big West was that all of the CA Schools with football either moved on or scuttled their program. Non-football CA schools were in the majority and didn't feel the need to keep football alive so it shriveled and died and not even FB-only affiliates in the central time zone could keep it going.

The West Coast 3 from the WAC would have needed to either align with the football faction or the CA faction--both would simply be too unwieldily.
07-18-2017 06:43 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #24
RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-18-2017 10:43 AM)SactoHornetAlum Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 12:42 AM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 08:57 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 08:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Very interesting. I can't speak with too much authority on the subject, but wasn't the WAC deemed a tier above the Big West, even after the MWC schools left?

Exactly right as regards the tiers.

SJSU had left the Big West very recently (after 1995). Fresno State left the Big West within the past decade (after 1991). They were generally at the top of the Big West/PCAA and were ambitiously trying to move up in the college football world. They didn't want to go BACK. It was still better to stick it out in a geographically weird conference of 3 schools very near the Pacific Ocean and 5 schools in Texas/Oklahoma.

As for Hawaii, they never were in the Big West, but they certainly were proud and thought themselves a step above. And for fairly good reason: they did win the WAC in 1992.

Also recall that the Big West was fairly actively shedding college football teams in the 1990s. Long Beach State, Pacific, Fullerton. That made the conference even less an option among schools that had options (Boise State, Idaho and UNT had no real options, it was Big West or nothing).


Never could figure why all those Cali schools that dropped football never went FCS, they could have been good at that level.


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I can figure out why. The perception was at the time I-AA (FCS) wasn't/isn't "Division I" football which we all know that isn't the case.

This is where moniker I-AA hurt the other D-I sports. The perception is better to not have football than I-AA football after having I-A football. Of course IMO that's a fallacy. I will never support a school that doesn't have football. Period. I will say this, had those three not dropped football and went I-AA, it would be a great core six of potentially Big West FCS football: Sac State, ucdavis, Pacific, Cal Poly, Long Beach State and Cal State Fullerton. Heck, you could have even convinced Cal State Northridge not to drop the sport too. At that point bring in Portland State and Northern Arizona. You talk about a decent FCS western conference along with the Big Sky!

I love your California FCS league. I'd definitely put Northridge in to make 7 and the non football UC triplets SB, Irvine, and Riverside round things out. Northern Arizona would definitely find this league appealing. Portland St might as well but the Big Sky had more Pacific Northwest schools so they might have still chosen the Big Sky.
07-18-2017 07:01 PM
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jdgaucho Online
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Post: #25
RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-18-2017 06:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 11:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The Big West fell apart as a football league because the Cali schools had grown weary of adding far flung schools just for the purpose of keeping football afloat.

At the time the MWC split off from WAC, the WAC still had 8 members. UTEP, Hawaii, Fresno, TCU, Rice, Tulsa, SMU, and San Jose State. They quickly added Nevada from the Big West and thought they were stable.

Big West in comparison had:
All Sports + Football: Pacific, Utah State, New Mexico State, Nevada, North Texas, Boise State, Idaho
Non-Football: UC Santa Barbara, Long Beach State. CS Fullerton, UC Irvine, Cal Poly SLO.

The Big West had 12 full members and 7 football (soon 11/6 with the departure of Nevada)

There simply wasn't a way Big West could raid the WAC unless the Big West booted North Texas and the remaining WAC wanted to leave the Texas/Oklahoma schools.

The 6 California non-football schools would have had to be left behind to avoid being a 15 team behemoth and probably wrecking like the WAC did when it got bloated.

Ultimately what doomed the Big West was that all of the CA Schools with football either moved on or scuttled their program. Non-football CA schools were in the majority and didn't feel the need to keep football alive so it shriveled and died and not even FB-only affiliates in the central time zone could keep it going.

The West Coast 3 from the WAC would have needed to either align with the football faction or the CA faction--both would simply be too unwieldily.

Sure. We absolutely loved trading Nevada, Boise, NMSU and Utah State for Cal State Northridge and UC Riverside. C'mon, really? 01-wingedeagle
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 07:30 PM by jdgaucho.)
07-18-2017 07:29 PM
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