We need a look up 4 posts emoji.

(07-17-2017 07:15 AM)JOwl Wrote:  Lance used to be my favorite former Rice athlete, but at this point I have zero desire for Rice to hire him in any capacity.

Dude are you serious? Is this about politics? Get over your self righteous, virtue signalling moral outrage.

(07-17-2017 05:28 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  We need a look up 4 posts emoji.

You're absolutely right.
I thought I'd read through all of the thread before I posted. Obviously, I missed a page... or two.

(07-17-2017 07:28 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  

(07-17-2017 07:15 AM)JOwl Wrote:  Lance used to be my favorite former Rice athlete, but at this point I have zero desire for Rice to hire him in any capacity.

Dude are you serious? Is this about politics? Get over your self righteous, virtue signalling moral outrage.

Absolutely serious.

I used to be a huge fan. But at this point, I don't want Lance employed by Rice any more than I want, say, Ken Hatfield. Less, in fact.

(07-17-2017 09:13 AM)davidw Wrote:  why is that, JOwl? What is the rub? Just curious.

Lance's political ad against the Houston Equal Rights Ordinance -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3oSDzZxdyg -- with my opinion then lowered a bit more by his delicate-flower act in the face of the "digital persecution": http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/...610939.php

Jowl- I am glad you were not the only one thinking this stuff. While I get that the political stuff makes him a poor fit for a place like Rice, I hardly think that is the biggest problem with having him return. I also think that cuts both ways as he would not enjoy being muzzled and Rice would not tolerate the stupid- yes I mean to use that word- ill informed posturing he has shown in the past.

There is a reason that great pro players like Lance never become good college coaches. College coaching is incredibly demanding and it requires tons of work. Lance probably has over $100 million in the bank and a ranch and a family and a church and a campaign manager that place demands on his time. I think this would be little more than another toy for Lance, and not his top priority. In contrast, Wayne has simply out-scouted, out-worked and out managed his way to a successful career. I think he was driven by hard work because he never had much growing up.

With Lance, we would no doubt get great press out of the gate and there would be some excitement in year one. You would have to fight your way through the Trans protesters to come to the game (Hey maybe Lance could actually meet one so he would know how threatening they truly are) and you might have the post game turn into a tent revival complete with rattle snakes, but it would be something. Pre-games will include an invocation from the Baptist of your choice just like Baylor!

The problems start in year two when he continues to insist that there is no difference between being a hall of famer and being a college ball player (hint-they have different abilities on the top side) and he starts to lose games because he is out coached. Those great college players that could not be admitted under Wayne are still not going to be able to don the old English R. The P5 schools will still offer more money to kids we would want. Even being able to cherry pick the best private school talent in Houston could not beat Emory Weiner. Successful college coaches work hard, they out work everyone else at all cost and that does not sound like Lance.

Then you get to the part of how you deal with players confronting the rigors of Rice academics. How do you motivate student athletes when you have commented about the fact that you majored in eligibility and that you were 2-0 against the honor council? I just don't think that this is a good fit for either party.

Lance is not my favorite choice for coach. But I am disappointed to see our next coach must pass a political suitability test, in addition to knowing baseball, being able to recruit, and being able to develop talent.

please please please keep politics out of here. I need at least one corner of the internet I can hide out in and talk about important stuff like sports.

(07-18-2017 06:04 AM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  please please please keep politics out of here. I need at least one corner of the internet I can hide out in and talk about important stuff like sports.

No kidding. It's amazing how intolerant the "tolerant" people are when opinions don't coincide with theirs.

Back to baseball please.

(07-18-2017 06:04 AM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  please please please keep politics out of here. I need at least one corner of the internet I can hide out in and talk about important stuff like sports.

No kidding. It's amazing how intolerant the "tolerant" people are when opinions don't coincide with theirs.

Back to baseball please.

Do I think there should be political litmus tests for college coaches? No.

Berkman's public stance on the equal rights ordinance will send a message and cause a public controversy if he is a serious candidate for the head coaching job. Should the university take that fact seriously when considering whether he's right for the job? Yes.

(07-18-2017 10:02 AM)jellowl Wrote:  Do I think there should be political litmus tests for college coaches? No.
Berkman's public stance on the equal rights ordinance will send a message and cause a public controversy if he is a serious candidate for the head coaching job. Should the university take that fact seriously when considering whether he's right for the job? Yes.

How would you distinguish the latter from the former? Can you give an example of the latter that would not also be the former? If you can't or don't want to answer, no problem. Probably better to drop this issue on a sports board. Maybe it would be suitable for the quad.

For the record, I'm not particularly excited about Berkman as head coach. Outstanding playing ability does not translate into outstanding coaching results in what seems to be the vast majority of cases. I suppose his beliefs might cause some recruits not to come to Rice, but I would think that for the demographic that plays elite baseball that would probably be a positive more often than a negative.

While Lance has had success as a head coach at the TAPPS level I think a year as an assistant at the D1 level would help ease concerns that we won't wind up like UH did when they made Drexler the UH MBB coach.

To me, Berkman wanting our job initially reminds me of Clyde Drexler wanting the UH job. Turned out that Clyde (also a millionaire many times over) wanted the job, but not the work that the job entailed.

Lance is already in coaching, so he's got a step up on Clyde, who had zero coaching experience. I know Lance knows and loves baseball and loves being out there with the kids, and he's had success as the HS level. However, if I were our AD, for me to consider Lance I would need (as others have pointed out) to see that he truly wants the grind and to put in work recruiting. Or at least has a plan to hire assistants who would be true grinders on the recruiting trail (I have no doubt Lance could close 'em if he got them to campus). His name recognition alone would be an asset in recruiting, but the grunt work still has to be done by someone.

(07-18-2017 10:30 AM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  To me, Berkman wanting our job initially reminds me of Clyde Drexler wanting the UH job. Turned out that Clyde (also a millionaire many times over) wanted the job, but not the work that the job entailed.

Lance is already in coaching, so he's got a step up on Clyde, who had zero coaching experience. I know Lance knows and loves baseball and loves being out there with the kids, and he's had success as the HS level. However, if I were our AD, for me to consider Lance I would need (as others have pointed out) to see that he truly wants the grind and to put in work recruiting. Or at least has a plan to hire assistants who would be true grinders on the recruiting trail (I have no doubt Lance could close 'em if he got them to campus). His name recognition alone would be an asset in recruiting, but the grunt work still has to be done by someone.

As I've said before, no way I hand Lance the head coaching job without him proving himself as an Assistant Coach at the D-1 level for at least one season. It's why this may be the perfect opportunity for him. As for his political and religious positions, as most of you know, I'm a center-left liberal, and I'm okay with Lance being given an opportunity provided it is made clear upfront (and in his contract)-- and he understands-- that if hired, such comments are inappropriate and would be grounds for dismissal.

(07-18-2017 11:01 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 10:30 AM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  To me, Berkman wanting our job initially reminds me of Clyde Drexler wanting the UH job. Turned out that Clyde (also a millionaire many times over) wanted the job, but not the work that the job entailed.
Lance is already in coaching, so he's got a step up on Clyde, who had zero coaching experience. I know Lance knows and loves baseball and loves being out there with the kids, and he's had success as the HS level. However, if I were our AD, for me to consider Lance I would need (as others have pointed out) to see that he truly wants the grind and to put in work recruiting. Or at least has a plan to hire assistants who would be true grinders on the recruiting trail (I have no doubt Lance could close 'em if he got them to campus). His name recognition alone would be an asset in recruiting, but the grunt work still has to be done by someone.

As I've said before, no way I hand Lance the head coaching job without him proving himself as an Assistant Coach at the D-1 level for at least one season. It's why this may be the perfect opportunity for him. As for his political and religious positions, as most of you know, I'm a center-left liberal, and I'm okay with Lance being given an opportunity provided it is made clear upfront (and in his contract)-- and he understands-- that if hired, such comments are inappropriate and would be grounds for dismissal.

If you told me that, I wouldn't take the job. That's way too far over into denial of free speech. Lance doesn't need the money, and he would do well to stay put if it were put that way.

Basing hiring and firing decisions on an employee's personal beliefs is illegal if not relevant to the job.

(07-18-2017 11:17 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Basing hiring and firing decisions on an employee's personal beliefs is illegal if not relevant to the job.

No one said based on personal beliefs; rather, based on inappropriate and politically incorrect comments. That is not only legal, but has been a cause for employee dismissal not only sports and broadcasting, but all across industry.

(07-18-2017 11:22 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 11:17 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Basing hiring and firing decisions on an employee's personal beliefs is illegal if not relevant to the job.

No one said based on personal beliefs; rather, based on inappropriate and politically incorrect comments. That is not only legal, but has been a cause for employee dismissal not only sports and broadcasting, but all across industry.

Was his statement on the bathrooms inappropriate and/or politically incorrect?

(07-18-2017 11:22 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 11:17 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Basing hiring and firing decisions on an employee's personal beliefs is illegal if not relevant to the job.

No one said based on personal beliefs; rather, based on inappropriate and politically incorrect comments. That is not only legal, but has been a cause for employee dismissal not only sports and broadcasting, but all across industry.

I don't recollect Berkman's choice of words. But to be grounds for termination a comment has to meet common definitions of harrassment, threat, vulgarity, etc.

(07-18-2017 11:40 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 11:22 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 11:17 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Basing hiring and firing decisions on an employee's personal beliefs is illegal if not relevant to the job.

No one said based on personal beliefs; rather, based on inappropriate and politically incorrect comments. That is not only legal, but has been a cause for employee dismissal not only sports and broadcasting, but all across industry.

I don't recollect Berkman's choice of words. But to be grounds for termination a comment has to meet common definitions of harrassment, threat, vulgarity, etc.

The fact that people are even having this conversation reflects why an individual's propensity to make controversial comments that have nothing to do with their actual job should be at least a factor in any hiring decision. Just ask Rick Greenspan. (I am not drawing a parallel from any of Berkman's political comments to Greenspan's offensive comments to student athletes. Just pointing out that both comments have nothing to do with the individuals' actual jobs and have the ability to draw unwanted negative attention to Rice and Rice athletics).

I have no idea what Coach Graham's, Bailiff's, or Pera's politics are. I hope to never learn.