The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(07-13-2017 10:06 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:58 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:28 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let me turn the question around a little? Aside from the Charleston Classic and the automatic game vs. VCU, what would you say is the highlight of our schedule? JMU? W&M? Richmond?

I would say that we could realistically add two games against either ACC, Big East, SEC, or even AAC. If you have to go on the road, so be it.

Football can get home games with ACC teams. Why can't basketball get a road game?

If you have to, add another A10 team or UNCW.

Instead, we get "games against quality teams from the A-10, CAA, MAAC and MAC".

The current schedule will get us 20 wins and qualify for one of those CHIT Tournaments. Then again, the fact that we now consider W&M a "tough outing" speaks volumes.

In a season in which JJ needs to get to the NCAAs, this schedule won't help. The only option looks to be to win the conference tournament as our at-large hopes are already shot on July 13.

"We don't" consider W&M a tough outing. I do, because I think they've become a better program than people who remember the W&M of two decades ago want to give them credit for. . . . And you'd be pissed if we went on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake and got our asses handed to us. Why? Just so we could say we played someone with more name recognition? . . . Again, not saying this is a great schedule -- I don't know. But I think people say they want to see us play the old CAA teams, they want us to play UR and VCU, want us to play in challenging tournaments, and the NSU thing is good for the city, or should be. After all that and CUSA, that doesn't leave much room IMO

W&M is certainly better than we are right now, but they aren't the only ones that moved.

I rather lose on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake then to win enough cupcakes to boast another 20 win season. At least having those teams on the schedule, and especially on the road, gives us some chance at an at-large NCAA bid. If we could win 2 of those, it might well get the job done.

The goal is the NCAA Tournament, therefore we need to schedule accordingly. On this point, we failed.

Having those teams on the schedule means absolutely nothing. You have to beat all of them, if you schedule them. I agree I would rather see us play them, but just having them there and losing to them, does us no good.

My Predictions

Towson W
at JMU W
Charleston, 2-1
at WM W
UMES W
at VCU L
Richmond W
BG W
at Fairfield W
NSU W
Charlotte W
at Rice W
at NT W
WKU W
Marshall W
at FIU W
at FAU W
at Charlotte W
MTSU W
UAB W
at USM W
at LT W
UTSA W
UTEP W
at Marshall L
at WKU L
FAU W
FIU W
CUSA tournament, We lose in the final

I think that gets us to 28-29 wins, the glass is half full this year

(07-13-2017 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:06 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:58 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:28 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let me turn the question around a little? Aside from the Charleston Classic and the automatic game vs. VCU, what would you say is the highlight of our schedule? JMU? W&M? Richmond?

I would say that we could realistically add two games against either ACC, Big East, SEC, or even AAC. If you have to go on the road, so be it.

Football can get home games with ACC teams. Why can't basketball get a road game?

If you have to, add another A10 team or UNCW.

Instead, we get "games against quality teams from the A-10, CAA, MAAC and MAC".

The current schedule will get us 20 wins and qualify for one of those CHIT Tournaments. Then again, the fact that we now consider W&M a "tough outing" speaks volumes.

In a season in which JJ needs to get to the NCAAs, this schedule won't help. The only option looks to be to win the conference tournament as our at-large hopes are already shot on July 13.

"We don't" consider W&M a tough outing. I do, because I think they've become a better program than people who remember the W&M of two decades ago want to give them credit for. . . . And you'd be pissed if we went on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake and got our asses handed to us. Why? Just so we could say we played someone with more name recognition? . . . Again, not saying this is a great schedule -- I don't know. But I think people say they want to see us play the old CAA teams, they want us to play UR and VCU, want us to play in challenging tournaments, and the NSU thing is good for the city, or should be. After all that and CUSA, that doesn't leave much room IMO

W&M is certainly better than we are right now, but they aren't the only ones that moved.

I rather lose on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake then to win enough cupcakes to boast another 20 win season. At least having those teams on the schedule, and especially on the road, gives us some chance at an at-large NCAA bid. If we could win 2 of those, it might well get the job done.

The goal is the NCAA Tournament, therefore we need to schedule accordingly. On this point, we failed.

Having those teams on the schedule means absolutely nothing. You have to beat all of them, if you schedule them. I agree I would rather see us play them, but just having them there and losing to them, does us no good.

Says who? If we scheduled all 4 of them, 2-2 may well suffice.

As it is, we may well win 28 games this year and not reach the NCAAs.

(07-13-2017 10:11 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:06 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:58 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:28 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let me turn the question around a little? Aside from the Charleston Classic and the automatic game vs. VCU, what would you say is the highlight of our schedule? JMU? W&M? Richmond?

I would say that we could realistically add two games against either ACC, Big East, SEC, or even AAC. If you have to go on the road, so be it.

Football can get home games with ACC teams. Why can't basketball get a road game?

If you have to, add another A10 team or UNCW.

Instead, we get "games against quality teams from the A-10, CAA, MAAC and MAC".

The current schedule will get us 20 wins and qualify for one of those CHIT Tournaments. Then again, the fact that we now consider W&M a "tough outing" speaks volumes.

In a season in which JJ needs to get to the NCAAs, this schedule won't help. The only option looks to be to win the conference tournament as our at-large hopes are already shot on July 13.

"We don't" consider W&M a tough outing. I do, because I think they've become a better program than people who remember the W&M of two decades ago want to give them credit for. . . . And you'd be pissed if we went on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake and got our asses handed to us. Why? Just so we could say we played someone with more name recognition? . . . Again, not saying this is a great schedule -- I don't know. But I think people say they want to see us play the old CAA teams, they want us to play UR and VCU, want us to play in challenging tournaments, and the NSU thing is good for the city, or should be. After all that and CUSA, that doesn't leave much room IMO

W&M is certainly better than we are right now, but they aren't the only ones that moved.

I rather lose on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake then to win enough cupcakes to boast another 20 win season. At least having those teams on the schedule, and especially on the road, gives us some chance at an at-large NCAA bid. If we could win 2 of those, it might well get the job done.

The goal is the NCAA Tournament, therefore we need to schedule accordingly. On this point, we failed.

Having those teams on the schedule means absolutely nothing. You have to beat all of them, if you schedule them. I agree I would rather see us play them, but just having them there and losing to them, does us no good.

Says who? If we scheduled all 4 of them, 2-2 may well suffice.

As it is, we may well win 28 games this year and not reach the NCAAs.

The teams you listed will not do.

Jump- let me ask you. Is scheduling a thing potential recruits look at when considering a school? If you thought you had "game" would you want to play UMES, Norfolk St. plus a mediocre CUSA schedule? And yes, I would much rather play better quality teams and lose than play bottom tier and win. Losing to P5's on the road does 2 things. 1. helps pay the bills and 2. doesn't hurt our rpi. Losing to UMEs would devastate our rpi.
As for P-5's having nothing to gain, isn't that the exact same predicament we're in playing MEAC schools? Why do we do it but explain away P5's not doing it?

(07-13-2017 10:13 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:11 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:06 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:58 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  "We don't" consider W&M a tough outing. I do, because I think they've become a better program than people who remember the W&M of two decades ago want to give them credit for. . . . And you'd be pissed if we went on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake and got our asses handed to us. Why? Just so we could say we played someone with more name recognition? . . . Again, not saying this is a great schedule -- I don't know. But I think people say they want to see us play the old CAA teams, they want us to play UR and VCU, want us to play in challenging tournaments, and the NSU thing is good for the city, or should be. After all that and CUSA, that doesn't leave much room IMO

W&M is certainly better than we are right now, but they aren't the only ones that moved.

I rather lose on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake then to win enough cupcakes to boast another 20 win season. At least having those teams on the schedule, and especially on the road, gives us some chance at an at-large NCAA bid. If we could win 2 of those, it might well get the job done.

The goal is the NCAA Tournament, therefore we need to schedule accordingly. On this point, we failed.

Having those teams on the schedule means absolutely nothing. You have to beat all of them, if you schedule them. I agree I would rather see us play them, but just having them there and losing to them, does us no good.

Says who? If we scheduled all 4 of them, 2-2 may well suffice.

As it is, we may well win 28 games this year and not reach the NCAAs.

The teams you listed will not do.

Probably Not. They were jumpshooters list.

Give us Georgetown and Tennessee. Add that to Clemson in the Charleston Classic, go 1-2. Beat the teams that we are supposed toi beat, then we may be on to something.

The teams that we have now certainly won't do.

If we win 28 games, we will be in the tournament.

We don't know if attempts were made to play those teams or not. Its not as easy as just saying I want to play Georgetown.

(07-13-2017 10:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we win 28 games, we will be in the tournament.

We don't know if attempts were made to play those teams or not. Its not as easy as just saying I want to play Georgetown.

What I think some posters don't understand is that the inability to schedule some of these teams is in some ways a sign of respect. Name me one of these teams that wants to lose at home to ODU.

(07-13-2017 10:20 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:13 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:11 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:06 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  W&M is certainly better than we are right now, but they aren't the only ones that moved.

I rather lose on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake then to win enough cupcakes to boast another 20 win season. At least having those teams on the schedule, and especially on the road, gives us some chance at an at-large NCAA bid. If we could win 2 of those, it might well get the job done.

The goal is the NCAA Tournament, therefore we need to schedule accordingly. On this point, we failed.

Having those teams on the schedule means absolutely nothing. You have to beat all of them, if you schedule them. I agree I would rather see us play them, but just having them there and losing to them, does us no good.

Says who? If we scheduled all 4 of them, 2-2 may well suffice.

As it is, we may well win 28 games this year and not reach the NCAAs.

The teams you listed will not do.

Probably Not. They were jumpshooters list.

Give us Georgetown and Tennessee. Add that to Clemson in the Charleston Classic, go 1-2. Beat the teams that we are supposed toi beat, then we may be on to something.

The teams that we have now certainly won't do.

Now you're speaking my language

I just want to say that I called my shot.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-821759-post-144...id14443135

Of course, the sad part is that we probably still have to toughest non-conference schedule in CUSA.

This schedule is very problematic for an NCAA at large bid. The season boils down to the CUSA Tournament period. We could win out our OCC schedule (excluding the CC tournament) and finish 14-4 in conference still have an RPI over 70 with a SOS close to 150-175. That will be hard for the NCAA tournament committee to award us an at large bid even with +25 wins. This schedule tells us 1 thing...we must be Tournament Champs.

(07-13-2017 09:16 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  OK, folks, let's play a little game. You're ODU's schedule maker. You think this schedule sucks. Create a better, realistic schedule, given this team's returning talent, one that will test it, but give it chances for success and prep it for the CUSA season.

FWIW, I don't know if the schedule is good or bad, because I know nothing about Bowling Green and/or Fairfield. Charleston tournament certainly looks good and challenging and I think playing anyone on the road in this age of mid-major parity is a tough outing. Yes, even W&M. Then again, I'm a dope.

To answer your original question...

I understand the attraction of in-state rivalries, but...

UMES
Bowling Green
Fairfield
Norfolk State

Look, I don't want to be Seth Greenberg "holier-than-thou", and refuse to play these schools. But not all four in the same season. We have enough RPI killers in CUSA play.

Drop two of these and add some beef.

(07-13-2017 10:18 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Jump- let me ask you. Is scheduling a thing potential recruits look at when considering a school? If you thought you had "game" would you want to play UMES, Norfolk St. plus a mediocre CUSA schedule? And yes, I would much rather play better quality teams and lose than play bottom tier and win. Losing to P5's on the road does 2 things. 1. helps pay the bills and 2. doesn't hurt our rpi. Losing to UMEs would devastate our rpi.
As for P-5's having nothing to gain, isn't that the exact same predicament we're in playing MEAC schools? Why do we do it but explain away P5's not doing it?

I think there are great many factors that go into a recruit's mind, schedule being one of them. But I would think the coaches would be able to tell a kid, as they were able to tell Huiett last year "We're traveling to this international trip this year, playing in the Charleston Classic next year ... " and give them the highlights of upcoming schedules for a couple of years out. ... Then you've got facilities (new practice facility and the Ted), courses in anticipated majors, overall campus, relationships developed with the recruiting coach and the head guy, location of the school, influence of the kid's parents, etc. I don't see 3 or 4 games as being a deal-breaker if a recruit is interested in ODU ... I also think that with our likely exorbitant travel budget because of CUSA, there's an emphasis on playing the regional OOC. Maybe someone on our staff has a good relationship with someone at UMES; maybe they'll come to us for less money than other similar schools. ... for me recruiting and why a kid goes one place over another is murky, mysterious and I'm sure extraordinarily frustrating. Why is kid A so impressed that so-and-so was the first to offer and it means nothing to kid B? Why is Kid A ga-ga that Xavier sends him an email every day and another kid think he's being steamrolled? ... I have no great explanations for any of this stuff.

(07-13-2017 10:27 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we win 28 games, we will be in the tournament.

We don't know if attempts were made to play those teams or not. Its not as easy as just saying I want to play Georgetown.

What I think some posters don't understand is that the inability to schedule some of these teams is in some ways a sign of respect. Name me one of these teams that wants to lose at home to ODU.

I disagree. These teams don't want to lose to us at OUR place, so they won't schedule h/h's. If we accepted a one time , play for pay, I suspect we'd be able to schedule some of them.

Giles seems to think a 28 win season would get us into the Dance. Based on the selection committees obvious bias for P5's, I'm not so sure. Especially if your SOS sucks from playing UMES and others. We see this play out every year where P5's with decent SOS but mediocre records beat out G5's with better records but weak SOS.
Bottom line, if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and in order to beat the best you have to play them, even on their terms (at first).

The home non-conference schedule is dreadful.

(07-13-2017 09:58 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:28 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let me turn the question around a little? Aside from the Charleston Classic and the automatic game vs. VCU, what would you say is the highlight of our schedule? JMU? W&M? Richmond?

I would say that we could realistically add two games against either ACC, Big East, SEC, or even AAC. If you have to go on the road, so be it.

Football can get home games with ACC teams. Why can't basketball get a road game?

If you have to, add another A10 team or UNCW.

Instead, we get "games against quality teams from the A-10, CAA, MAAC and MAC".

The current schedule will get us 20 wins and qualify for one of those CHIT Tournaments. Then again, the fact that we now consider W&M a "tough outing" speaks volumes.

In a season in which JJ needs to get to the NCAAs, this schedule won't help. The only option looks to be to win the conference tournament as our at-large hopes are already shot on July 13.

"We don't" consider W&M a tough outing. I do, because I think they've become a better program than people who remember the W&M of two decades ago want to give them credit for. . . . And you'd be pissed if we went on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake and got our asses handed to us. Why? Just so we could say we played someone with more name recognition? . . . Again, not saying this is a great schedule -- I don't know. But I think people say they want to see us play the old CAA teams, they want us to play UR and VCU, want us to play in challenging tournaments, and the NSU thing is good for the city, or should be. After all that and CUSA, that doesn't leave much room IMO

I think the problem is that we should NOT be getting our asses handed to us but any of those teams.

(07-13-2017 09:58 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 09:28 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let me turn the question around a little? Aside from the Charleston Classic and the automatic game vs. VCU, what would you say is the highlight of our schedule? JMU? W&M? Richmond?

I would say that we could realistically add two games against either ACC, Big East, SEC, or even AAC. If you have to go on the road, so be it.

Football can get home games with ACC teams. Why can't basketball get a road game?

If you have to, add another A10 team or UNCW.

Instead, we get "games against quality teams from the A-10, CAA, MAAC and MAC".

The current schedule will get us 20 wins and qualify for one of those CHIT Tournaments. Then again, the fact that we now consider W&M a "tough outing" speaks volumes.

In a season in which JJ needs to get to the NCAAs, this schedule won't help. The only option looks to be to win the conference tournament as our at-large hopes are already shot on July 13.

"We don't" consider W&M a tough outing. I do, because I think they've become a better program than people who remember the W&M of two decades ago want to give them credit for. . . . And you'd be pissed if we went on the road to LSU or Mississippi or NC State or Wake and got our asses handed to us. Why? Just so we could say we played someone with more name recognition? . . . Again, not saying this is a great schedule -- I don't know. But I think people say they want to see us play the old CAA teams, they want us to play UR and VCU, want us to play in challenging tournaments, and the NSU thing is good for the city, or should be. After all that and CUSA, that doesn't leave much room IMO

That whole good for the city thing is nonsense. The city doesn't care. Its not like its some big made for TV game that brings a bunch of attention and aside from that, it does nothing but create a game where we have to go play in a terrible arena, against a team that will hurt our RPI, even with a win, and if we lose, it is an embarrassment.

Charleston tournament is a wild card and VCU/Richmond should be decent, but we better ace the rest of the non-conference portion. Anything less will just be sad

(07-13-2017 11:24 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 10:18 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Jump- let me ask you. Is scheduling a thing potential recruits look at when considering a school? If you thought you had "game" would you want to play UMES, Norfolk St. plus a mediocre CUSA schedule? And yes, I would much rather play better quality teams and lose than play bottom tier and win. Losing to P5's on the road does 2 things. 1. helps pay the bills and 2. doesn't hurt our rpi. Losing to UMEs would devastate our rpi.
As for P-5's having nothing to gain, isn't that the exact same predicament we're in playing MEAC schools? Why do we do it but explain away P5's not doing it?

I think there are great many factors that go into a recruit's mind, schedule being one of them. But I would think the coaches would be able to tell a kid, as they were able to tell Huiett last year "We're traveling to this international trip this year, playing in the Charleston Classic next year ... " and give them the highlights of upcoming schedules for a couple of years out. ... Then you've got facilities (new practice facility and the Ted), courses in anticipated majors, overall campus, relationships developed with the recruiting coach and the head guy, location of the school, influence of the kid's parents, etc. I don't see 3 or 4 games as being a deal-breaker if a recruit is interested in ODU ... I also think that with our likely exorbitant travel budget because of CUSA, there's an emphasis on playing the regional OOC. Maybe someone on our staff has a good relationship with someone at UMES; maybe they'll come to us for less money than other similar schools. ... for me recruiting and why a kid goes one place over another is murky, mysterious and I'm sure extraordinarily frustrating. Why is kid A so impressed that so-and-so was the first to offer and it means nothing to kid B? Why is Kid A ga-ga that Xavier sends him an email every day and another kid think he's being steamrolled? ... I have no great explanations for any of this stuff.

I agree with you 100%, so I don't want to imply the schedule can be a deal breaker. It's only one consideration out of many.
I realize the staff knows things about scheduling problems I could never imagine, but if travel costs are requiring us to schedule such dreadful teams, only because they are relatively inexpensive to play, then we've got a real problem.
Beating local creampuffs and still not getting to the dance is a recipe for disaster.