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OT: Does App St miss FCS?
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2Buck Offline
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Post: #1
OT: Does App St miss FCS?
I know some often reference Ga State or ULM or other struggling FBS move-ups but I'm in the camp that JMU would (should!) have the potential of a Boise State or App State. Living in the Carolinas I remember well the outcry of many App fans when they transitioned so it's interesting to see their views now that they have a few seasons under their belts.

http://www.yosefscabin.com/forum/viewtop...=4&t=11385
07-12-2017 10:58 AM
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bridgeforthduke Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
(07-12-2017 10:58 AM)2Buck Wrote:  the potential of a Boise State or App State

One of these is not like the other.

I don't think their fans miss it. FBS is still fresh and exciting and they have had some marginal success. If they have a string of multiple down years some of their fans may yearn for the days of FCS but I doubt it would be a majority. Moving to FBS, especially with GA State, was the right move for them.
07-12-2017 11:33 AM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
interesting to read....from their forum:

"We've played a home game against Miami already, and we have upcoming games at home against UNC, Wake Forest and East Carolina. How could anyone miss the FCS"

7 pages of "hell no we don't miss it"... but FCS apologists will say "they're all crazy and wrong"
07-12-2017 11:34 AM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
Honest question, would you enthusiasm for hosting P5 schools diminish at all if you knew you'd drop those games, home or away, at least 90% of the time?

Other G5 schools don't seem to be getting huge attendance boosts outside of their P5 home games if they happen to lose more often then not.

Their fans aren't saying, "man, this 3 win season is okay because we hosted Purdue four years ago but still lost!"

The example of app state is really cherry picking too. They've had the most success, at least at the sun belt level, nationally is another story. It's easy to pick a team that's had 8 and 10 win seasons while ignoring the plethora of other schools who have been lucky to get 5 or 6 wins, or even a single win.

Finally, the SBC and CUSA from top to bottom are just terrible. I'm not surprised in the slightest that ODU, GSU and App State were able to just walk in and immediately compete. It shows how low those conferences are. JMU would find similar success in their leagues.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 11:48 AM by Potomac.)
07-12-2017 11:41 AM
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Dukeman2 Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
I have tailgated at App State for 18 consecutive years and have asked everyone there about the FBS move - the positive feedback is unanimous.

In many ways it embodies the American spirit, ambition, and school pride.

JMU has found its niche with abolishing SAT scores, banning Christmas songs from school concerts, and opposing cost of attendance for athletes.
07-12-2017 11:48 AM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
ha...it doesn't matter - because if any other school that moved up has or does struggle in the future, then it's irrefutable proof to some that we must stay FCS .... i can't stand this - JMU has it's stuff together and will do great, why look at the schools that are struggling and think "that's JMU's fate"?

OT: App really should have kept their old mascot.... that yokel grandpa is very lame compared to their former mountain-zeus
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 12:15 PM by bcp_jmu.)
07-12-2017 12:13 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
I read the yosefscabin thread above. App fans overwhelmingly happy that Appy made the move to 1A.

One of many quotes
"I absolutely love learning about the Sun Belt teams and drawing P5 schools to Boone, I've loved our two bowl games and there'll be a Sun Belt Championship game soon that'll be fun."

Cleary the poster above needs to be reeducated, the uninformed person is unaware that Appy would be more engaged long term as an fcs outlier beating the sh#t out of programs with no where near the fan base or resources.
07-12-2017 12:16 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
(07-12-2017 12:13 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  ha...it doesn't matter - because if any other school that moved up has or does struggle in the future, then it's irrefutable proof to some that we must stay FCS .... i can't stand this - JMU has it's stuff together and will do great, why look at the schools that are struggling and think "that's JMU's fate"?

OT: App really should have kept their old mascot.... that yokel grandpa is very lame compared to their former mountain-zeus

It's called sample size. It's a fact that there are more schools struggling than not struggling. If you're trying to argue otherwise, you're not raising your "success" bar very high. 5 or 6 wins and being the 62.5% of the field that makes a bowl game isn't a very high mark.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 01:23 PM by Potomac.)
07-12-2017 12:56 PM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
agreed...success is not a normal curve - nor should it be. JMU will struggle at times i'm sure, but overall we're winners and that will translate in FBS
07-12-2017 01:11 PM
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DirtyDukes Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
This thread is stupid. Of course a school that only has a good Football program isn't upset they moved up to a better football league.

App was in a different place than we were when they made the jump.

If you don't understand this, take your head out of the sand.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 01:43 PM by DirtyDukes.)
07-12-2017 01:29 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
With all that being said, App is also the top of the recent FCS move-ups competitively (yes, even more than ODU). They are poised to have a good season this year, are on-paper favorites in 11 of their 12 games and have a winnable P5 game against Georgia (dawgs are only 3 pt favorites according to massey). If they beat UGA, they could be considered one of the better G5 programs in 2017 and probably end up ranked later on.
They'll be able to beat a crappy Wake Forest team at home this year. The SBC won't challenge them.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 01:35 PM by Potomac.)
07-12-2017 01:33 PM
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H.U.S.T.L.E. Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
Ask them again in 10 years and see if they have the same answer.

Potomac gets to the heart of the matter: Does hosting games in Boone against Miami, UNC, Wake Forest and East Carolina make a difference if most of them will be losses?

Will the shine eventually wear off playing the likes of Arkansas State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UA-Little Rock, UL-L, UL-M, South Alabama, Texas State and Troy every year?
07-12-2017 03:05 PM
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PGJMU2 Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
round and round we go. there are 3 categories of JMU football fans

1. FBS at any cost
2. FBS for the right conference / when they get G5 figured out
3. Stay FCS

i would suspect 80% of our fans are in 2.

FBS was always going to work for App, they won 3 NCs in a row, were averaging 30k, have a conference that works and are willing to sacrifice their other sports
07-12-2017 03:14 PM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
Or...

1 Clearly stated goal and plan for FBS
2 See ya in 2023, maybe
3 Apologists, BFLPs, and luddites
07-12-2017 03:25 PM
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BDKJMU Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
(07-12-2017 03:14 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  round and round we go. there are 3 categories of JMU football fans

1. FBS at any cost
2. FBS for the right conference / when they get G5 figured out
3. Stay FCS

i would suspect 80% of our fans are in 2.

FBS was always going to work for App, they won 3 NCs in a row, were averaging 30k, have a conference that works and are willing to sacrifice their other sports

Pretty much agree with everything you said. Just to point out, App averaging 30k is a bit of a stretch. App State's attendance avg last 9 years in I-AA:
2005: 17,917 (won NC)
2006: 20,546 (won NC, think was 1st season ever over 20k avg attendance)
2007: 24,218 (beat Michigan, won NC)
2008: 25,161
2009: 24,004
2010: 25,715
2011: 26,211
2012: 26,358
2013: 24,894
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statis...attendance
07-12-2017 03:31 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
(07-12-2017 03:31 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:14 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  round and round we go. there are 3 categories of JMU football fans

1. FBS at any cost
2. FBS for the right conference / when they get G5 figured out
3. Stay FCS

i would suspect 80% of our fans are in 2.

FBS was always going to work for App, they won 3 NCs in a row, were averaging 30k, have a conference that works and are willing to sacrifice their other sports

Pretty much agree with everything you said. Just to point out, App averaging 30k is a bit of a stretch. App State's attendance avg last 9 years in I-AA:
2005: 17,917 (won NC)
2006: 20,546 (won NC, think was 1st season ever over 20k avg attendance)
2007: 24,218 (beat Michigan, won NC)
2008: 25,161
2009: 24,004
2010: 25,715
2011: 26,211
2012: 26,358
2013: 24,894
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statis...attendance

I knew that to be the case, I will also add they slipped a little during their transition seasons. When you aren't playing for hardware, it's tough on fans and players alike.
07-12-2017 04:09 PM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
(07-12-2017 03:05 PM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  Ask them again in 10 years and see if they have the same answer.

Potomac gets to the heart of the matter: Does hosting games in Boone against Miami, UNC, Wake Forest and East Carolina make a difference if most of them will be losses?

Why will most of their home games against P5 teams be losses? Have they already forfeited?

Playing these teams is good.
Hosting these teams is better.
Beating these teams is the best.

This is a good 10 year bet for me. I will wager that App wins the majority of their home games against P5 teams in the next 10 years. Let me know if you have a juicy bet to offer.
07-12-2017 06:25 PM
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2Buck Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
Your list needed some clarifications so I took a stab at it...

1. FBS at any cost (Who wants FBS at "any cost"? Literally at any cost? Not sure I've seen many in this category but I'd be interested in seeing some examples. Perhaps this is your category for the fans that have wanted JMU to move up for years because they recognize the SB and CUSA are simply a step forward vs a final destination? I'd say these are the fans that expect nothing less than leadership that fulfills the potential JMU has demonstrated for decades.)


2. FBS for the right conference / when they get G5 figured out (Red herring by the bubble people. If this was the strategy of an administration that was upfront, clear and committed from the get-go I might have believed it (and even have been all for it). I'm not sure how fans that have been burned by the last 10+ years still have faith in the same 'ol modus operandi of this leadership but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...)


3. Stay FCS (Bubble people. Fans that either live nearby and get to see all the games and local media coverage they want, or those who don't realize what JMU is capable of if left unimpeded. Maybe if I lived in the valley and didn't have the experiences I had at JMU, and seen the things I've seen this would be me. But it's not.)
07-12-2017 06:40 PM
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2Buck Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
(07-12-2017 03:05 PM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  Ask them again in 10 years and see if they have the same answer.

Potomac gets to the heart of the matter: Does hosting games in Boone against Miami, UNC, Wake Forest and East Carolina make a difference if most of them will be losses?

Will the shine eventually wear off playing the likes of Arkansas State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UA-Little Rock, UL-L, UL-M, South Alabama, Texas State and Troy every year?

How many teams with even half of JMU's potential have dropped back down to FCS? There are a ton P5 schools we can beat at home now. We will always have undesirable games at home, we have several every single year in FCS. I'd take Georgia Southern over an FCS team like Coastal any day. Oh wait, they're FBS now. Well I'd take Georgia Southern over an FCS team like Liberty any day. Shat, them too? How about Bridgewater? Is Bridgewater FBS now?
07-12-2017 06:47 PM
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South Carolina Duke Offline
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RE: OT: Does App St miss FCS?
I was picking up SCD Jr from football camp today at Furman Univ.

Interesting conversation took place between myself and the entire coaching staff , except HC and OC ( Cronik) former JMU staff guy.

They all asked me, "when are y'all (JMU) moving to FBS? Even fellow FCS opponents are scratching their heads at our "leadership."
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 09:39 PM by South Carolina Duke.)
07-12-2017 09:38 PM
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