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AAC will never measure up to Power 5
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #21
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 11:27 AM)vcoog Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:05 AM)vcoog Wrote:  I don't buy the whole premise.. it says UCF and UH 'fumbled the ball' in reguards to national relevancy.. This might be the case if UCF had lost to baylor and UH had lost to FSU, but the fact that both teams won demonstrated that the aac teams deserved their top 15/top 10 rankings that season. And UH's " mediocre 9-4 " season last year included two top 5 wins and at one point a top 5 ranking. You can argue we fumbled down the stretch but you can't argue we didn't demonstrate competing with the p5.. I also wouldn't limit the teams to UH UCF and South Florida. There are a few teams in this league that haven't had a pulse in football, but it's out of the norm, not the other way around. The American has surpassed expectations.

He called it "fumbling the ball". I'd argue that the losses during conference play indicate that the AAC is a pretty solid top to bottom league. Lots of dangerous teams capable of beating P5's.

That said--I have major reservations about a non-P5 team ever being in the playoff. The selection committee composition, stacked from top to bottom with virtually ALL P5 representatives, is essnetially an echo chamber and the belief that a G5 is deserving of the playoff is non-existent in that room. No G5 has ever reached the top 10 in a single CFP ranking. The first CFP ranking waitd weeks before even ranking an undefeated Marshall. In year 3 of the CFP, an undefeated G5 with wins over 2 P5's was not even top 10 worthy per the committee. In fact, the committee saw fit to place an undefeated W Michigan, with 2 P5 wins, behind every single 3 loss P5 (plus WMU was even ranked behind one FOUR-loss P5). Based on that, it would appear almost impossible for a G5 to get into the top 10---much less the top 4.

We aren't in the same boat as WMU (Lol boat), this isn't a problem for an AAC team who schedules tough. See 2015 memphis when they were ranked 13 mid season, would have been hard to leave them out at 13-0. Same with UH last season. If we win out we CAN get a team in. Can't say the same for cusa or mac teams. Have to schedule tough and win.

I guess we just see it differently. I see that as evidence of exactly what Im saying. With just 4 games left in the season, you had an 8-0 Memphis team (with nice win over a solid SEC team) sitting at 13th, behind 5 1-loss P5 teams. I tend to think that actually proves my point. With no more games vs P5's---that Memphis team was going to have a tough time climbing into the top 10 (which I think WAS actually possible) but essentially zero chance of making the top 4. MInd you--thats not what I think is right---its what I think would happen because the CFP selection committee is stacked with a very "P5-centric" world view.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 11:59 AM by Attackcoog.)
07-12-2017 11:56 AM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 11:51 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:45 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  By nature independents like BYU and Navy will have more P5 wins, you played more P5 teams.

Ya...It'd be like including UC, USF, and UCONN on this list.

But then Navy probably wouldn't be #1, which would screw up his slant.

The discussion is about those without the resource advantages being able to consistently win against those with the resource advantages. You got BCS money while in the Big East, so any wins over other Big East teams are irrelevant to the point. 2006 Navy win over Edsall-coached, Big East funded UConn does count.

It's not that hard.
07-12-2017 12:15 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #23
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 12:15 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:51 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:45 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  By nature independents like BYU and Navy will have more P5 wins, you played more P5 teams.

Ya...It'd be like including UC, USF, and UCONN on this list.

But then Navy probably wouldn't be #1, which would screw up his slant.

The discussion is about those without the resource advantages being able to consistently win against those with the resource advantages. You got BCS money while in the Big East, so any wins over other Big East teams are irrelevant to the point. 2006 Navy win over Edsall-coached, Big East funded UConn does count.

It's not that hard.

You can't include Navy and BYU then because those schools had more lucrative independent deals (money/exposure/resources/open dates to play P5 schools) than any non-BCS/G5 school.

You just lost your own argument. It really isn't that hard. LOL.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 12:27 PM by HuskyU.)
07-12-2017 12:27 PM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 11:45 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  By nature independents like BYU and Navy will have more P5 wins, you played more P5 teams.

2003-2014, Navy was 23-33 against BCSAQ/P5 teams (56 games)
2003-2014, ECU was 13-33 against BCSAQ/P5 teams (46 games)

10 more games over 14 years.

Fair way might be winning percentage -.410 vs .283

Want to look at games played with an AAC patch on the jersey?
Navy 2-1 .666
ECU 4-4 .500
07-12-2017 12:27 PM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #25
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 09:38 AM)Bull Wrote:  I wish this could be understood once and for all... We are not claiming to be EQUAL to the P5. We are claiming there is clear OVERLAP, and therefore no SEPARATION. It is this artificial separation that is hurting us.. and influencing bowls and TV$$$.. On the field, in facilities, and with ratings, we compete very well with the P5.

In this regard, almost everyone is against us... The P5 want to keep us down, and the G4 do as well... A applaud Aresco for fighting for this conference.

Whatever man. Even the lowest P5 programs have more base support than G5. All you have to do is look at the budgets and subtract the TV dollars from P5 and subtract subsidy from G5. The difference in that (mostly fan) support is staggering.

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(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 12:31 PM by Hood-rich.)
07-12-2017 12:29 PM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #26
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
nm

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(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 12:30 PM by Hood-rich.)
07-12-2017 12:30 PM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 12:27 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 12:15 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:51 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:45 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  By nature independents like BYU and Navy will have more P5 wins, you played more P5 teams.

Ya...It'd be like including UC, USF, and UCONN on this list.

But then Navy probably wouldn't be #1, which would screw up his slant.

The discussion is about those without the resource advantages being able to consistently win against those with the resource advantages. You got BCS money while in the Big East, so any wins over other Big East teams are irrelevant to the point. 2006 Navy win over Edsall-coached, Big East funded UConn does count.

It's not that hard.

You can't include Navy and BYU then because those schools had more lucrative independent deals (money/exposure/resources/open dates to play P5 schools) than any non-BCS/G5 school.

You just lost your own argument. It really isn't that hard. LOL.

Naval Academy Athletic Association budget is approximately $40 million. Right in the middle of the pack of the AAC. Just over half of the lowest budgets in any of the P5s. We're in the "without" resources camp in this discussion.

Independent scheduling only possible advantage, and I already shot down the ECU poster claiming we had so many more chances - fewer than one more BCS/P5 game per year.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 12:40 PM by slhNavy91.)
07-12-2017 12:38 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #28
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 11:15 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:40 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  We beat P5s more regularly than anyone outside of Houston. It's our only claim to fame at the moment.

Wins by a non-BCS AQ/ P5 over BCS AQ/P5 since 2003:
T1. Navy 23
T1. BYU 23
3. Boise State 15
T4. Fresno State 14
T4. Houston 14
6. East Carolina 13
7. Hawai'i 10
T8. NIU 9
T8. Toledo 9

Navy's 23 wins came with 33 losses - a .410 winning percentage. That is in line with historic record against current P5 - 193-219-16 for a .451 winning percentage

I count 15 for Houston and a .416 winning % since 2003

12-10 since 2007 .545 winning %

5 wins over top 25 P5's with 3 wins over top 5 teams including wins over #5 Oklahoma State in 2009, #23 Penn State in 2011, #9 Florida State in 2015, #3 Oklahoma and #3 Louisville in 2016.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 02:07 PM by GO Coogs GO!!!.)
07-12-2017 02:03 PM
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TheOrigamiJimmyChin Offline
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Post: #29
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
For no other reason than the fact that I did the research, here's UH's record against "Power 5" and overall:

SINCE 2003
Against Power-5: 14-14 (0.500)

UH's overall record: 113-68 (0.624)


SINCE AAC (2013 - present)
Against Power-5: 6-1 (0.857)

UH's overall record: 38-15 (0.717)
07-12-2017 02:07 PM
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TheOrigamiJimmyChin Offline
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Post: #30
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 02:03 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  I count 15 for Houston and a .416 winning % since 2003

12-10 since 2007 .545 winning %

5 wins over top 25 P5's with 3 wins over top 5 teams including wins over #5 Oklahoma State in 2009, #23 Penn State in 2011, #9 Florida State in 2015, #3 Oklahoma and #3 Louisville in 2016.

I didn't count our games since 2003 with TCU or Louisville (except for UL in 2015 and 2016), because those teams were either our conference mates or TCU was in MWC. Other than UL in 2015/2016, we didn't play them while they were in "P-5" conferences.
07-12-2017 02:10 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #31
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 02:07 PM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  For no other reason than the fact that I did the research, here's UH's record against "Power 5" and overall:

SINCE 2003
Against Power-5: 14-14 (0.500)

UH's overall record: 113-68 (0.624)


SINCE AAC (2013 - present)
Against Power-5: 6-1 (0.857)

UH's overall record: 38-15 (0.717)

Are you counting schools that are now P5 or were at the time?

I showed 15 but then that included TCU when we played them.

Depending on how you slice it actually (now that I took the time to reference my database) I show UH as

17-23 Since 2003 versus P5 teams now or teams that were BCS at the time we played them.

15-16 versus teams that are P5 now and were at the time.

Alabama 0-1
Florida State 1-0
Kansas 0-1
Louisville 2-0 (2-3 if you count since 2003 outside the Big East and ACC)
Miami 0-2
Michigan 0-1
Mississippi State 3-1
Oklahoma 1-1
Oklahoma State 2-1
Oregon 0-2
Penn State 1-0
Pittsburgh 1-0
Rutgers 1-0
South Carolina 0-1
Texas Tech 1-1
UCLA 1-3
Vanderbilt 1-1
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 02:26 PM by GO Coogs GO!!!.)
07-12-2017 02:13 PM
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vcoog Offline
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Post: #32
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 12:27 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:45 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  By nature independents like BYU and Navy will have more P5 wins, you played more P5 teams.

2003-2014, Navy was 23-33 against BCSAQ/P5 teams (56 games)
2003-2014, ECU was 13-33 against BCSAQ/P5 teams (46 games)

10 more games over 14 years.

Fair way might be winning percentage -.410 vs .283

Want to look at games played with an AAC patch on the jersey?
Navy 2-1 .666
ECU 4-4 .500

Wrecked.
07-12-2017 02:16 PM
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TheOrigamiJimmyChin Offline
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Post: #33
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 02:13 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  Are you counting schools that are now P5 or were at the time?

I showed 15 but then that included TCU when we played them.

Only counted teams that were BCS/P-5 at the time we played.

TCU didn't become BCS/P-5 until they joined Big 12 in 2011. We last played them in 2007, in the Texas Bowl.
07-12-2017 02:35 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #34
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 02:35 PM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:13 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  Are you counting schools that are now P5 or were at the time?

I showed 15 but then that included TCU when we played them.

Only counted teams that were BCS/P-5 at the time we played.

TCU didn't become BCS/P-5 until they joined Big 12 in 2011. We last played them in 2007, in the Texas Bowl.

That's what I though but I still came up with 15-16 (see previous post update)
07-12-2017 02:37 PM
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Post: #35
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 08:41 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  This guy must have some issues with the AAC.

As a conference, the American is never going to get to the top level. But a few of its teams, like USF, possess the resources to get there on their own. And that starts with beating Power 5 conference teams. Consistently.

So far, nobody’s been able to do that.


http://www.theledger.com/sports/20170701...to-power-5

The author looks like a serial killer.
07-12-2017 03:50 PM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 03:50 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 08:41 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  This guy must have some issues with the AAC.

As a conference, the American is never going to get to the top level. But a few of its teams, like USF, possess the resources to get there on their own. And that starts with beating Power 5 conference teams. Consistently.

So far, nobody’s been able to do that.


http://www.theledger.com/sports/20170701...to-power-5

The author looks like a serial killer.

I was going with a comment about not putting too much stock in predictions by Saruman...decided it was a little geeky
07-12-2017 04:09 PM
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Stay Cool Offline
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Post: #37
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 11:15 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:40 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  We beat P5s more regularly than anyone outside of Houston. It's our only claim to fame at the moment.

Wins by a non-BCS AQ/ P5 over BCS AQ/P5 since 2003:
T1. Navy 23
T1. BYU 23
3. Boise State 15
T4. Fresno State 14
T4. Houston 14
6. East Carolina 13
7. Hawai'i 10
T8. NIU 9
T8. Toledo 9

Navy's 23 wins came with 33 losses - a .410 winning percentage. That is in line with historic record against current P5 - 193-219-16 for a .451 winning percentage

EVEN MORE REASON FOR MY DREAM TO COME TRUE AND NIU JOINS THE P6

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07-12-2017 05:22 PM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 05:22 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:15 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:40 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  We beat P5s more regularly than anyone outside of Houston. It's our only claim to fame at the moment.

Wins by a non-BCS AQ/ P5 over BCS AQ/P5 since 2003:
T1. Navy 23
T1. BYU 23
3. Boise State 15
T4. Fresno State 14
T4. Houston 14
6. East Carolina 13
7. Hawai'i 10
T8. NIU 9
T8. Toledo 9

Navy's 23 wins came with 33 losses - a .410 winning percentage. That is in line with historic record against current P5 - 193-219-16 for a .451 winning percentage

EVEN MORE REASON FOR MY DREAM TO COME TRUE AND NIU JOINS THE P6

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07-12-2017 06:11 PM
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Stay Cool Offline
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Post: #39
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 06:11 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 05:22 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:15 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:40 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  We beat P5s more regularly than anyone outside of Houston. It's our only claim to fame at the moment.

Wins by a non-BCS AQ/ P5 over BCS AQ/P5 since 2003:
T1. Navy 23
T1. BYU 23
3. Boise State 15
T4. Fresno State 14
T4. Houston 14
6. East Carolina 13
7. Hawai'i 10
T8. NIU 9
T8. Toledo 9

Navy's 23 wins came with 33 losses - a .410 winning percentage. That is in line with historic record against current P5 - 193-219-16 for a .451 winning percentage

EVEN MORE REASON FOR MY DREAM TO COME TRUE AND NIU JOINS THE P6

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Just over six hours. Passable for off-season but camp starts soon StayCool
I'm working myself into form, I needed an offseason too. Plus, believe it or not, being a mod on a different board can be quite taxing on your enjoyment of a particular forum =/

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07-12-2017 06:14 PM
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Post: #40
RE: AAC will never measure up to Power 5
(07-12-2017 12:15 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:51 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 11:45 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  By nature independents like BYU and Navy will have more P5 wins, you played more P5 teams.

Ya...It'd be like including UC, USF, and UCONN on this list.

But then Navy probably wouldn't be #1, which would screw up his slant.

The discussion is about those without the resource advantages being able to consistently win against those with the resource advantages. You got BCS money while in the Big East, so any wins over other Big East teams are irrelevant to the point. 2006 Navy win over Edsall-coached, Big East funded UConn does count.

It's not that hard.

Congratulations, you are the tallest midget.
07-12-2017 06:44 PM
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