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Big 12/PAC reorganization?
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #21
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
How about this?

SEC adds Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

ACC adds West Virginia and Notre Dame

B1G adds Kansas and UConn

PAC adds Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Kansas State

American picks up Baylor, Iowa State, BYU, Colorado State, and Boise State

Doubtful the AAC attains Power status with a move like this, but they'll get more money out of it and ESPN will own the property outright.
08-07-2017 04:23 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-07-2017 04:23 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  How about this?

SEC adds Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

ACC adds West Virginia and Notre Dame

B1G adds Kansas and UConn

PAC adds Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Kansas State

American picks up Baylor, Iowa State, BYU, Colorado State, and Boise State

Doubtful the AAC attains Power status with a move like this, but they'll get more money out of it and ESPN will own the property outright.

That's certainly possible, but the PAC may be interested in acquiring two AAU schools and setting up an annual Iowa State / Iowa game with the Big 10.
08-07-2017 04:46 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-07-2017 04:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 04:23 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  How about this?

SEC adds Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

ACC adds West Virginia and Notre Dame

B1G adds Kansas and UConn

PAC adds Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Kansas State

American picks up Baylor, Iowa State, BYU, Colorado State, and Boise State

Doubtful the AAC attains Power status with a move like this, but they'll get more money out of it and ESPN will own the property outright.

That's certainly possible, but the PAC may be interested in acquiring two AAU schools and setting up an annual Iowa State / Iowa game with the Big 10.

SEC with OU & OSU. Makes sense as it acquires a football blue blood to boost Teir 1 inventory and overall content. Texas is the only other possible option, but A&M would go bizzerck and Texas is not the best partner to work with. The SEC would prefer a second school that added a new market, but OSU would be a solid athlete addition.

ACC adding WVU and Norte Dame: Unrealistic. ND is the moby dick of the modern era and WVU has some enemies on Tobacco Road that would prevent membership. I do think the ACC would bend on WVU if ESPN told them to take the mountaineers and paid the conference. I would be disappointed if ND gave up their independence. Now the ACC should be asking Texas if they wanted to join as a partial. If Texas said the ACC neede to take Texas Tech as a full member, then adding WVU makes complete sense in that case.

PAC with Texas, Tech, K State, TCU: Liberals adding conservatives? The PAC saw money with UT in a PAC16 format, but didn't want to alter their schools' access to California by adding the Bedlam schools. Not to mention the PAC Networks barely make money for their schools, only desperate schools would leave the B12 for the poorly capitalized third Teir rights these days. If I'm the PAC, I'd only extend an offer to Texas and Texas Tech.

P4 becomes P5 again? I could see the leftover B12 schools raiding the best of the MWC and American and Sun Belt to create a conference worthy of P4 inclusion. besides, there will still be bowl games that need teams and this will give the up and comers a real shot at the playoffs.
08-08-2017 01:19 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
Try this:
ACC : Texas (partial), Texas Tech, West Virginia
SEC: OU, OSU
B1G: Kansas, Iowa State

That's seven. So JR, if something is afoot, a plan somewhat similar to this might be what's needed to dissolve the B12. Reason? For networks to become intertwined with the last major sporting league that won't necessarily want to directly skip the broadcasters and deliver its product directly to the consumer.
08-08-2017 01:31 AM
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Otacon Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....
08-09-2017 01:34 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

I think you would help their Eastern Division immensely. I'm just not sold they would do it. But that said, I don't think you will be left out of conference membership somewhere.

Today Disney stated that they would be increasing their inventory of fresh product for all of their viewing options which includes more live programming for ESPN. It looks like they are going to spend money on inventory in preparation for a streaming world. I think that is the glove being tossed for their full pursuit of product they currently split with FOX in the Big 12 and PAC. We'll see.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2017 02:37 PM by JRsec.)
08-09-2017 02:34 PM
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #27
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

It would certainly make things easier if they were willing to make a move like that.
08-09-2017 02:39 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(07-11-2017 06:16 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I haven't posted a crazy theory in a while and I've got the itch so I was thinking about this today...

I'm not trying to piggyback on the Dude here because I think he has no clue what he's talking about, but let's assume for a moment that the financial issues and distribution difficulties of the PAC do indeed lead to trouble on the West Coast.

I do NOT think the Big 12 is going to snag PAC schools. I think perhaps the geographical limitations will prevent the B1G or the SEC from doing so either. But let's think back to the last time 2 leagues with relative proximity were both having financial issues coupled with demographic shortfalls...the Big 8 and the SWC died off and the remnants reformed as the Big 12.

What if we see something akin to this happen again?

What if ESPN decides to go all in with the PAC once the contract is up in the early 2020s with this sort of scenario in mind?

PAC drops Washington State and Oregon State

Big 12 drops Kansas State, TCU, Baylor, and West Virginia

The remnants merge with an ESPN owned 3rd Tier network that combines the existing PACN with the LHN...

The Pacific Western Conference?

West: UCLA, USC, California, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Arizona State

East: Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State


Thoughts?

Bullet has mentioned this possibility and as time goes by I think the idea is gaining plausibility, being that the traditional method of poaching might lead to too many programs left in the lurch and schools like Texsa, OU and KU don't want to go to a conference outside their core region if they could help themselves.

Economics being what they are should the PAC and Big 12 merge then there will be no other moves by the other major conferences other than maybe the ACC looking at West Virginia or Notre Dame joining in football. At some point the values of the Big Ten, SEC and a merged PAC/B12 would be as such that no other school could add to their values. And the ACC would still be somewhat protected by the fact that they're more valuable stuck together than split off into individual pieces.

So the Big Ten and SEC would remain at 14 each, the PacXVI going to 16 and being the conference for the three most Westerly timezones would be a great outcome considering the alternatives and the ACC being the ACC.

My questions are:

- Would the PAC presidents forego their ego and pride if they realize this is the only way to end their conference's geographic isolation?

- Who would have the media contract?

The AAC would be a beneficiary by getting the leftovers from the programs the PACXVI can't afford to bring along. They'd finally have the pieces to create a national conference.

Say Wazzu, BYU, Colorado State, Oregon State and Boise represent the West.

KState, TCU, Baylor, Houston, Memphis

Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, Navy, East Carolina

UConn, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, Temple

West Virginia could slip to take Cincinnati's place, depending.
08-16-2017 07:32 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #29
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....


https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/b...aaf,227789

Bill Stewart's prediction (March 2010)
"It's exciting. It's disheartening as well. ... The Big Ten could [affect the Big East], they'll pick a couple of our teams. However, the SEC and the ACC will also do the same, so that's exciting. I don't know where we're going to land. We could land, whatever, in one of maybe three conferences, the ACC, the SEC, maybe the Big Ten.
"But right now, we're still Big East and we need to keep that focus. And that's the disheartening thing, when you break up a Big East contingency like we had. We had a lot of fun, a lot of rivals, and I hate to see that end. But there are exciting times on the horizon with new conferences. We'll be in one of them. Which one I don't know. I really don't. But that's down the road a couple of years, I do believe."
08-16-2017 08:12 AM
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #30
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-16-2017 08:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....


https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/b...aaf,227789

Bill Stewart's prediction (March 2010)
"It's exciting. It's disheartening as well. ... The Big Ten could [affect the Big East], they'll pick a couple of our teams. However, the SEC and the ACC will also do the same, so that's exciting. I don't know where we're going to land. We could land, whatever, in one of maybe three conferences, the ACC, the SEC, maybe the Big Ten.
"But right now, we're still Big East and we need to keep that focus. And that's the disheartening thing, when you break up a Big East contingency like we had. We had a lot of fun, a lot of rivals, and I hate to see that end. But there are exciting times on the horizon with new conferences. We'll be in one of them. Which one I don't know. I really don't. But that's down the road a couple of years, I do believe."

Well, I tell you what...

If the Big Ten was willing to take West Virginia and Kansas then we could wrap this thing up easy peasy.

SEC takes Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

ACC takes Notre Dame and Cincinnati

B1G takes Kansas and West Virginia

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Iowa State
08-16-2017 08:29 AM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

WV wouldn't add $50+ mil to the B1G... not to mention the academic reasons. Moreover, if the B12 could click on the undo option, Louisville would be in the conference instead of WV....
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2017 10:20 AM by Underdog.)
08-16-2017 10:18 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-16-2017 10:18 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

WV wouldn't add $50+ mil to the B1G... not to mention the academic reasons. Moreover, if the B12 could click on the undo option, Louisville would be in the conference instead of WV....

WVU might not add $50M, but they would add quality matchups in football and basketball. Let's face it, the Big Ten east with Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue and say UConn football on your schedule is way too much filler for the TV broadcasters to stomach let alone season ticket holders.
08-16-2017 05:00 PM
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #33
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-16-2017 05:00 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(08-16-2017 10:18 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

WV wouldn't add $50+ mil to the B1G... not to mention the academic reasons. Moreover, if the B12 could click on the undo option, Louisville would be in the conference instead of WV....

WVU might not add $50M, but they would add quality matchups in football and basketball. Let's face it, the Big Ten east with Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue and say UConn football on your schedule is way too much filler for the TV broadcasters to stomach let alone season ticket holders.

And adding Kansas is any circumstance is really not going to solve their problem at that.
08-16-2017 09:43 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #34
Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-16-2017 10:18 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

WV wouldn't add $50+ mil to the B1G... not to mention the academic reasons. Moreover, if the B12 could click on the undo option, Louisville would be in the conference instead of WV....


If the B12 could hit the redo button it should be to take Louisville & Cincinnati after taking TCU & WV. Then hopefully gone to 14-16 with FSU, Clemson & maybe a pair of friends.

(But I prefer how things actually turned out.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2017 09:49 AM by Lenvillecards.)
08-19-2017 09:46 AM
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RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-19-2017 09:46 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(08-16-2017 10:18 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

WV wouldn't add $50+ mil to the B1G... not to mention the academic reasons. Moreover, if the B12 could click on the undo option, Louisville would be in the conference instead of WV....


If the B12 could hit the redo button it should be to take Louisville & Cincinnati after taking TCU & WV. Then hopefully gone to 14-16 with FSU, Clemson & maybe a pair of friends.

(But I prefer how things actually turned out.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the B12 had added BYU with TCU, do you think the ACC still takes Louisville?
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2017 08:42 PM by Underdog.)
08-21-2017 08:42 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-21-2017 08:42 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(08-19-2017 09:46 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(08-16-2017 10:18 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 01:34 PM)Otacon Wrote:  Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that if the dominoes fall, the B1G might just steal WVU.....

WV wouldn't add $50+ mil to the B1G... not to mention the academic reasons. Moreover, if the B12 could click on the undo option, Louisville would be in the conference instead of WV....


If the B12 could hit the redo button it should be to take Louisville & Cincinnati after taking TCU & WV. Then hopefully gone to 14-16 with FSU, Clemson & maybe a pair of friends.

(But I prefer how things actually turned out.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the B12 had added BYU with TCU, do you think the ACC still takes Louisville?

I agree they would have been in a much stronger position had they taken Cincinnati, Louisville, West Virginia, T.C.U., B.Y.U. and possibly South Florida.

But whether they would have expanded to 12 or 14 or 16 isn't relevant. Oklahoma, Texas, and Kansas never really wanted to tie themselves down with expansion. They wanted open ended options from the time of the initial defections. Moving to 10 was just a way to maintain their status quo financially and buy time to figure out their best moves. Hence no expansion beyond the 10 required to keep the TV contract viable.

So I feel sorry for T.C.U. and W.V.U. because if they are demoted it will be very painful. Sometimes it is better to have never had than to have had and lost.

I think they both have a decent chance of still landing in a P conference but they certainly aren't guaranteed a spot. Louisville is the one who got the golden ticket. But then I've always thought that Jurich was sharper than Luck.

Really the only reason they didn't take Louisville initially was because they weren't willing to pay the extra penalty money for early departure. T.C.U. was an easy choice because they were in between conference homes and merely redirected their move. West Virginia paid the early fees to get out immediately. The door closed then because the Big 12 had all they ever wanted, two warm bodies to cover the TV contract. It really didn't matter which two.
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2017 09:02 PM by JRsec.)
08-21-2017 08:56 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-21-2017 08:42 PM)Underdog Wrote:  If the B12 had added BYU with TCU, do you think the ACC still takes Louisville?

That is an excellent question. I'm sure the ACC would've taken a LONG look at WVU (which it may still add someday).
08-21-2017 09:51 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-21-2017 09:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-21-2017 08:42 PM)Underdog Wrote:  If the B12 had added BYU with TCU, do you think the ACC still takes Louisville?

That is an excellent question. I'm sure the ACC would've taken a LONG look at WVU (which it may still add someday).

I lean toward WV because it put up 70 on Clemson in a bowl game; thus, it was probably perceived as the better football program at the time—which the ACC was looking for….
08-21-2017 10:02 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-21-2017 09:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-21-2017 08:42 PM)Underdog Wrote:  If the B12 had added BYU with TCU, do you think the ACC still takes Louisville?

That is an excellent question. I'm sure the ACC would've taken a LONG look at WVU (which it may still add someday).

The resurgence of Pitt and Virginia Tech coupled with the addition of W.V.U. is exactly what the ACC needs to be able to split into truer North / South divisions which will make Clemson, Georgia Tech and F.S.U. happier. Better football in the North and the two division champs meeting would be like what the SEC once had with the East and West divisions when Florida and Tennessee were peaking.

I think the SEC will recycle into that but will probably make the transition more permanently if we add two good schools to the West and shift Alabama and Auburn to the East.

But we'll see.
08-21-2017 10:04 PM
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RE: Big 12/PAC reorganization?
(08-21-2017 10:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-21-2017 09:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-21-2017 08:42 PM)Underdog Wrote:  If the B12 had added BYU with TCU, do you think the ACC still takes Louisville?

That is an excellent question. I'm sure the ACC would've taken a LONG look at WVU (which it may still add someday).

The resurgence of Pitt and Virginia Tech coupled with the addition of W.V.U. is exactly what the ACC needs to be able to split into truer North / South divisions which will make Clemson, Georgia Tech and F.S.U. happier. Better football in the North and the two division champs meeting would be like what the SEC once had with the East and West divisions when Florida and Tennessee were peaking.

I think the SEC will recycle into that but will probably make the transition more permanently if we add two good schools to the West and shift Alabama and Auburn to the East.

But we'll see.

I think the SEC will ultimately set another standard and have 4 divisions of four with 2 semifinal games.
08-21-2017 10:08 PM
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