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BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #21
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-11-2017 11:50 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  No matter how many exclamation marks you use, bigger is not better. With 14 teams schools are already complaining about not seeing each other enough. UNC scheduled Wake Forest OOC for football. UNC and NCSU scheduled an OOC baseball game (it got rained out).

A better name for this plan is P2/G2/D2.

P2 (B1G, SEC)
G2 (ACC, PAC)
D2 (the rest)

Non-"rival" ACC schools in different divisions only see each other every 6 years not merely because there are 14 teams. It's also due to poor alignment and scheduling by the conference. A better alignment of the divisions would put more rivals together. For example:

Atlantic: Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Coastal: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia, Virginia Tech

More respectful of geography while still remaining fairly balanced in terms of football strength. And now all the NC teams can play each other every year.

With regard to schedule, even with the ACC's current 8-game conference slate, each school should be able to play every school in the other division within 4 years. This would require dropping the protected crossover, but realigning the divisions as above makes protected crossovers less necessary. With a 9-game conference schedule, it would be 3 years. Of course, the primary reason they haven't gone to 9 is to accommodate Notre Dame, which really seems unfair to the full ACC members.

A more radical solution is to drop scheduling based strictly on division and preserve only a few annual matchups. With the current 8-game schedule, each school could have up to 3 protected annual matchups while still being able to play all the teams in the conference within 2 years. Increasing the schedule to 9 games allows for up to 4 protected annual matchups while still seeing all teams within 2 years. In these cases, the divisions might only remain in place as a playoff structure or simply be abolished altogether.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2017 12:16 PM by Nerdlinger.)
07-11-2017 12:06 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-10-2017 11:08 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I like the Idea of the SEC -2 and ACC -2 merging; and the B1G -2 and Pac 12 merging; and having 2 premiere leagues and 2 relegation leagues. You could even break away from the NCAA for football.

Maybe even make it SEC + 2, ACC +2, B1G +2 and Pac 16.

The NEW Southern Conference - at 36:

Plains Division

Texas, TT, TCU, Oklahoma, Kansas, Mizzou

Gulf Division

TAMU, LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama

Southeast Division

Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, South Carolina

Appalachian Division

FSU, Clemson, GT, Vandy, Louisville, WF

Atlantic Division

Miami, UNC, NCSU, Duke, UVa, Navy

Northeast Division

Notre Dame, VT, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Cincinnati

Everyone has two permanent out of Division games so for ND it would be perhaps Navy and Miami, for Auburn it would Alabama, and perhaps Clemson. Texas might be TAMU and Arkansas. Bama might be OU and Auburn, etc., etc.

Six Division winners and two wild cards form an 8 team playoff with the first round at the home of the higher ranked.

The Conference Semifinals would be in the Orange, Sugar, or Peach Bowl.

The Championship would rotate around the above three.

The winner could face the Big 28 champion.


For example you might get:

Oklahoma, Alabama, Clemson, and ND hosting Miami, Georgia, Texas, and Florida State.

Then have OU and Bama winner meet the Clemson and UGa winner.

Only Cincy, BC, Syracuse, Navy, WF, and Duke have stadiums that are really too small to host - so those odds are just 6 of 36 in any one year so they would need an arrangment with the NFL in Baltimore or DC, New England, NY, Cincy, and Charlotte.

If ND would not join you could plug WVa into their spot or make a case they are worth more than Cincy or Navy, but to get ND, you probably have to have Navy.

The other thing you would do is make non-conference games not count in the standings so as to encourage good OOC games. The two wild cards are designed in part to address a 9-3 ND team that lost to Stanford, USC, and absprbed confernce loss. Although in this format, there would prbably be very few SoCon, Big Whatever, meetings and no rivalry games outside ND's and Nebraska/OU, and Pitt/Penn State.

I can't imagine the decision making process in a conference that size and in reality what you would have is six conferneces under one umbrella.
07-11-2017 12:16 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #23
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-11-2017 12:16 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The NEW Southern Conference - at 36:

What do you think of this alignment instead? Same teams, just organized differently to reduce the need for protected crossovers.

Atlantic: Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest
Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Boston College, Miami, Navy, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
North: Arkansas, Cincinnati, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Missouri
South: Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
West: LSU, Oklahoma, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Protected crossovers: Auburn/Georgia, Florida State/Miami

Also, no West Virginia or Oklahoma State? I'd trade them for Navy and TCU or TT.
07-11-2017 12:37 PM
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Post: #24
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-11-2017 11:50 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  No matter how many exclamation marks you use, bigger is not better. With 14 teams schools are already complaining about not seeing each other enough. UNC scheduled Wake Forest OOC for football. UNC and NCSU scheduled an OOC baseball game (it got rained out).

A better name for this plan is P2/G2/D2.

P2 (B1G, SEC)
G2 (ACC, PAC)
D2 (the rest)

Yeah everyone wants less football, thats what everyone is clamoring for.
07-11-2017 01:21 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #25
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-10-2017 09:31 PM)BalancedManSPE Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 08:14 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  B1G:

East- PSU, Rutgers, Maryland, UConn, Virginia

West- Texas, OU, KU, Nebraska, Iowa

South- Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Notre Dame, Ohio State

North- Minny, Wisc, NW, Michigan, MSU

lol. Which one of these schools looks out of place?

Seriously, if Notre Dame, Texas, OU, etc, were even in the least interested in the B1G, they would've been there long before Rutgers. 07-coffee3

You mean the current member of the Big Ten is out of place in the Big Ten? Bitter Rutgers is going to be making more TV money than all but 13 other teams in college sports?
07-11-2017 01:23 PM
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Post: #26
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-10-2017 10:09 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  There is so much silliness in that 160 team lineup, particularly at your G4 level. Rather going through it all, I will ask why the non-scholarship San Deigo be in FBS? And no part of Wofford, Charleston Southern, or Western Carolina belongs in FBS. And why would one of the oldest continuous rivalries in football (Richmond and W&M) be in different conferences were they both to go FBS? I could go on, what i wont.

Oh god forbid I didn't know the history of the greatest college rivalry of Richmond and William & Mary! hahahaha
07-11-2017 01:24 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #27
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-11-2017 09:30 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 08:10 AM)lew240z Wrote:  So, Northern Colorado replaces Colorado State in the Mountain West? Don't be silly.

Colorado State is missing altogether. Same goes for Ball State and South Alabama.

Updated to fix the missed teams. CSU replaces Northern CO, Ball St replaces Illinois St and So Alabama replaces Bama St.
07-11-2017 01:28 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #28
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-11-2017 12:06 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 11:50 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  No matter how many exclamation marks you use, bigger is not better. With 14 teams schools are already complaining about not seeing each other enough. UNC scheduled Wake Forest OOC for football. UNC and NCSU scheduled an OOC baseball game (it got rained out).

A better name for this plan is P2/G2/D2.

P2 (B1G, SEC)
G2 (ACC, PAC)
D2 (the rest)

Non-"rival" ACC schools in different divisions only see each other every 6 years not merely because there are 14 teams. It's also due to poor alignment and scheduling by the conference. A better alignment of the divisions would put more rivals together. For example:

Atlantic: Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Coastal: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia, Virginia Tech

More respectful of geography while still remaining fairly balanced in terms of football strength. And now all the NC teams can play each other every year.

With regard to schedule, even with the ACC's current 8-game conference slate, each school should be able to play every school in the other division within 4 years. This would require dropping the protected crossover, but realigning the divisions as above makes protected crossovers less necessary. With a 9-game conference schedule, it would be 3 years. Of course, the primary reason they haven't gone to 9 is to accommodate Notre Dame, which really seems unfair to the full ACC members.

A more radical solution is to drop scheduling based strictly on division and preserve only a few annual matchups. With the current 8-game schedule, each school could have up to 3 protected annual matchups while still being able to play all the teams in the conference within 2 years. Increasing the schedule to 9 games allows for up to 4 protected annual matchups while still seeing all teams within 2 years. In these cases, the divisions might only remain in place as a playoff structure or simply be abolished altogether.

Division realignment has been discussed at length... and then some more... and then some more... on the ACC board. Your divisions were probably in one of the thousands of iterations but there are still problems. Louisville wants to play FSU every year. UNC wants to play UVA every year. FSU and Miami want to play every year. And the list goes on.

There are many examples of conferences getting too big and splitting. The SoCon had 23 teams when the SEC split off. They grew to 19 when the ACC split off. The WAC got to 16 when the MWC split. The BE go so big, with so many competing interests it split.

I see your point that a change in attitude is needed for bigger conferences. However, I don't think college sports is anywhere near there yet. I think your proposed ACC divisions makes it even easier for the ACC to split and/or be raided.
07-11-2017 10:30 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #29
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-10-2017 10:09 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  There is so much silliness in that 160 team lineup, particularly at your G4 level. Rather going through it all, I will ask why the non-scholarship San Deigo be in FBS? And no part of Wofford, Charleston Southern, or Western Carolina belongs in FBS. And why would one of the oldest continuous rivalries in football (Richmond and W&M) be in different conferences were they both to go FBS? I could go on, what i wont.

San Diego ended last season ranked in the FCS top 20 and made the playoff. Wofford was ranked 8th.
07-12-2017 10:15 AM
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Post: #30
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-12-2017 10:15 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:09 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  There is so much silliness in that 160 team lineup, particularly at your G4 level. Rather going through it all, I will ask why the non-scholarship San Deigo be in FBS? And no part of Wofford, Charleston Southern, or Western Carolina belongs in FBS. And why would one of the oldest continuous rivalries in football (Richmond and W&M) be in different conferences were they both to go FBS? I could go on, what i wont.

San Diego ended last season ranked in the FCS top 20 and made the playoff. Wofford was ranked 8th.

Torero Stadium holds 6,000. Average home game attendance was 2,405 last year.
07-13-2017 10:54 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #31
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-13-2017 10:54 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:15 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:09 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  There is so much silliness in that 160 team lineup, particularly at your G4 level. Rather going through it all, I will ask why the non-scholarship San Deigo be in FBS? And no part of Wofford, Charleston Southern, or Western Carolina belongs in FBS. And why would one of the oldest continuous rivalries in football (Richmond and W&M) be in different conferences were they both to go FBS? I could go on, what i wont.

San Diego ended last season ranked in the FCS top 20 and made the playoff. Wofford was ranked 8th.

Torero Stadium holds 6,000. Average home game attendance was 2,405 last year.

Well the western half f the country needs better FCS teams.
07-13-2017 12:42 PM
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Post: #32
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-13-2017 12:42 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 10:54 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:15 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:09 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  There is so much silliness in that 160 team lineup, particularly at your G4 level. Rather going through it all, I will ask why the non-scholarship San Deigo be in FBS? And no part of Wofford, Charleston Southern, or Western Carolina belongs in FBS. And why would one of the oldest continuous rivalries in football (Richmond and W&M) be in different conferences were they both to go FBS? I could go on, what i wont.

San Diego ended last season ranked in the FCS top 20 and made the playoff. Wofford was ranked 8th.

Torero Stadium holds 6,000. Average home game attendance was 2,405 last year.

Well the western half f the country needs better FCS teams.


The D2 schools that could help bring more out of the western FCS if they are brought up.

Azusa Pacific could get really better in Big Sky affiliate.
West Texas A&M
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
They are the only D2 that had winning records out west.
Southern Oregon is the best from NAIA.
Linfield and Willamette from D3 are winners. Those 2 could be part of the Pioneer League for non-scholarship football.
Carroll Montana is the Dynasty team in NAIA.
Central plains are mainly Arkansas, Texas, Central Oklahoma at times, Missouri, Kansas the Dakotas and Minnesota schools are better which they could fit in FCS. I thought Omaha would do good in FCS football, but I was sad that they dropped their two most popular sports to go D1. BOOOOOOOO HISSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
07-14-2017 08:55 AM
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Rube Dali Offline
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Post: #33
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
The P4

ACC
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
West: Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami(FL)

B1G Ten
East: Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers
Mideast: Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue
North: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Southwest: Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

Pac-16
East: Iowa State, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech
Rockies: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
California: California, UCLA, Southern California, Stanford
Northwest: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State

SEC(This one maybe controversial)
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Central: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi
North: Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, TCU
07-14-2017 09:17 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #34
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-14-2017 09:17 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  The P4

ACC
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
West: Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami(FL)

B1G Ten
East: Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers
Mideast: Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue
North: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Southwest: Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

Pac-16
East: Iowa State, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech
Rockies: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
California: California, UCLA, Southern California, Stanford
Northwest: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State

SEC(This one maybe controversial)
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Central: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi
North: Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, TCU

That looks good to me, but keep it going. How do the other conferences look?

AAC

East: UConn, Temple, Army, Navy

North: Cincy, Memphis, ECU, Marshall

South: USF, UCF, S. Miss, Tulane

West: Houston, Baylor, SMU, Tulsa

CUSA

East: Old Dominion, Charolette, Deleware, James Madison

West: N. Texas, Rice, UTSA, Texas St

North: WKU, Mid Tenn, Chattanooga, App State

South: FIU, FAU, UAB, La Tech

MAC

East: Buffalo, UMass, Kent St, Akron

West: N. Dakota St, S. Dakota St. N. Iowa, N Illinois

North: CMU, WMU, EMU, Toledo

South: Ohio, Miami, Ball St, Bowling Green

MWC

East: CSU, Air Force, Wyoming, Utah St

West: Hawaii, San Diego St, Fresno, San Jose St

South: New Mexico, New Mexico St, UNLV, UTEP

North: Boise St, E. Washington, Nevada, Idaho

Sun Belt

East: Liberty, Coastal Carolina, William & Mary, Richmond

West: Sam Houston, Lousiana Monroe, Louisiana Lafayette, Stephen F Austin

North: Missouri St, EKU, Arkansas St, Central Arkansas

South: Georgia St, Georgia Southern, Troy, S. Alabama
07-14-2017 11:24 AM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-14-2017 09:17 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  The P4

ACC
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
West: Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami(FL)

B1G Ten
East: Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers
Mideast: Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue
North: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Southwest: Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

Pac-16
East: Iowa State, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech
Rockies: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
California: California, UCLA, Southern California, Stanford
Northwest: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State

SEC(This one maybe controversial)
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Central: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi
North: Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, TCU

While these seem to fit geographically, these 5 in bold would be a problem at some point.

Kansas State is a big academic and cultural misfit in the P16. Likewise with WVa and the ACC. The other three less so, but OU is an outlier made acceptable only by football and Nebraska's desire to have them. TCU's size makes them an outlier in the SEC. TT is an outlier made acceptable only by Texas.

I have to wonder at what point any P-4 scenario results in the 4 conferences turning to a a better fit G-5. For example, what does the P16 get from Kansas State, that is not obtained by New Mexico, maybe even Hawaii. As to the ACC, what does the ACC get with West Va, that is not obtained by TCU, Navy, Cincinnati, or Tulane. Without doubt WVa is the better football program, but it adds almost no footprint and for 65 years UVa and Duke have been opposed to WVa. And with TCU in the SEC, what does the SEC get that is not already obtained by TAMU and Ok State. From a footprint standpoint West Va puts them in the DC and Pittsburgh suburbs.

I don't know if it's possible to get that result, and that's before ESPN shouts in the ear of the ACC and SEC.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2017 04:31 PM by lumberpack4.)
07-14-2017 04:16 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-14-2017 04:16 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 09:17 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  The P4

ACC
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
West: Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami(FL)

B1G Ten
East: Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers
Mideast: Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue
North: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Southwest: Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

Pac-16
East: Iowa State, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech
Rockies: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
California: California, UCLA, Southern California, Stanford
Northwest: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State

SEC(This one maybe controversial)
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Central: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi
North: Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, TCU

While these seem to fit geographically, these 5 in bold would be a problem at some point.

Kansas State is a big academic and cultural misfit in the P16. Likewise with WVa and the ACC. The other three less so, but OU is an outlier made acceptable only by football and Nebraska's desire to have them. TCU's size makes them an outlier in the SEC. TT is an outlier made acceptable only by Texas.

I have to wonder at what point any P-4 scenario results in the 4 conferences turning to a a better fit G-5. For example, what does the P16 get from Kansas State, that is not obtained by New Mexico, maybe even Hawaii. As to the ACC, what does the ACC get with West Va, that is not obtained by TCU, Navy, Cincinnati, or Tulane. Without doubt WVa is the better football program, but it adds almost no footprint and for 65 years UVa and Duke have been opposed to WVa. And with TCU in the SEC, what does the SEC get that is not already obtained by TAMU and Ok State. From a footprint standpoint West Va puts them in the DC and Pittsburgh suburbs.

I don't know if it's possible to get that result, and that's before ESPN shouts in the ear of the ACC and SEC.

Fair points, I'd say. Give WV to the SEC instead of TCU. The ACC has its choice between Cincy and UConn. And if Texas moves to the Pac, it will want more neighbors to come along. So take TCU and Houston instead of ISU and KSU.
07-14-2017 05:07 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #37
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-13-2017 12:42 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 10:54 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:15 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:09 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  There is so much silliness in that 160 team lineup, particularly at your G4 level. Rather going through it all, I will ask why the non-scholarship San Deigo be in FBS? And no part of Wofford, Charleston Southern, or Western Carolina belongs in FBS. And why would one of the oldest continuous rivalries in football (Richmond and W&M) be in different conferences were they both to go FBS? I could go on, what i wont.

San Diego ended last season ranked in the FCS top 20 and made the playoff. Wofford was ranked 8th.

Torero Stadium holds 6,000. Average home game attendance was 2,405 last year.

Well the western half f the country needs better FCS teams.

Final 2016 FCS Coaches Poll
#3 North Dakota State
#4 Eastern Washington
#5 Sam Houston State
#12 North Dakota
#T21 Cal Poly
#T21 San Diego
#24 Weber State
#25 Montana

Attendance:
#1 Montana - 25K
#5 North Dakota State - 18.5K
#6 Montana State - 17.9K
#15 South Dakota State - 13.7K
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2017 05:44 PM by YNot.)
07-14-2017 05:43 PM
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Post: #38
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-14-2017 04:16 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 09:17 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  The P4

ACC
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
West: Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami(FL)

B1G Ten
East: Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers
Mideast: Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue
North: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Southwest: Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

Pac-16
East: Iowa State, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech
Rockies: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
California: California, UCLA, Southern California, Stanford
Northwest: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State

SEC(This one maybe controversial)
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Central: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi
North: Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, TCU

While these seem to fit geographically, these 5 in bold would be a problem at some point.

Kansas State is a big academic and cultural misfit in the P16. Likewise with WVa and the ACC. The other three less so, but OU is an outlier made acceptable only by football and Nebraska's desire to have them. TCU's size makes them an outlier in the SEC. TT is an outlier made acceptable only by Texas.

I have to wonder at what point any P-4 scenario results in the 4 conferences turning to a a better fit G-5. For example, what does the P16 get from Kansas State, that is not obtained by New Mexico, maybe even Hawaii. As to the ACC, what does the ACC get with West Va, that is not obtained by TCU, Navy, Cincinnati, or Tulane. Without doubt WVa is the better football program, but it adds almost no footprint and for 65 years UVa and Duke have been opposed to WVa. And with TCU in the SEC, what does the SEC get that is not already obtained by TAMU and Ok State. From a footprint standpoint West Va puts them in the DC and Pittsburgh suburbs.

I don't know if it's possible to get that result, and that's before ESPN shouts in the ear of the ACC and SEC.

How is WVU (Not WVa) a academic outlier in the ACC? That ship sailed when they invited Louisville. What does half of the SEC bring besides a good FB program? If they cared about footprint then why need 4 teams in NC?
07-14-2017 06:23 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #39
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-14-2017 05:43 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 12:42 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 10:54 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 10:15 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:09 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  There is so much silliness in that 160 team lineup, particularly at your G4 level. Rather going through it all, I will ask why the non-scholarship San Deigo be in FBS? And no part of Wofford, Charleston Southern, or Western Carolina belongs in FBS. And why would one of the oldest continuous rivalries in football (Richmond and W&M) be in different conferences were they both to go FBS? I could go on, what i wont.

San Diego ended last season ranked in the FCS top 20 and made the playoff. Wofford was ranked 8th.

Torero Stadium holds 6,000. Average home game attendance was 2,405 last year.

Well the western half f the country needs better FCS teams.

Final 2016 FCS Coaches Poll
#3 North Dakota State
#4 Eastern Washington
#5 Sam Houston State
#12 North Dakota
#T21 Cal Poly
#T21 San Diego
#24 Weber State
#25 Montana

Attendance:
#1 Montana - 25K
#5 North Dakota State - 18.5K
#6 Montana State - 17.9K
#15 South Dakota State - 13.7K

And they all were added to conferences in my scenario. California doesn't have a lot of FCS options.
07-14-2017 06:24 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: BIGGER IS BETTER!!!!
(07-14-2017 06:23 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 04:16 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 09:17 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  The P4

ACC
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
West: Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami(FL)

B1G Ten
East: Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers
Mideast: Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue
North: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Southwest: Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

Pac-16
East: Iowa State, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech
Rockies: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
California: California, UCLA, Southern California, Stanford
Northwest: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State

SEC(This one maybe controversial)
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Central: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi
North: Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, TCU

While these seem to fit geographically, these 5 in bold would be a problem at some point.

Kansas State is a big academic and cultural misfit in the P16. Likewise with WVa and the ACC. The other three less so, but OU is an outlier made acceptable only by football and Nebraska's desire to have them. TCU's size makes them an outlier in the SEC. TT is an outlier made acceptable only by Texas.

I have to wonder at what point any P-4 scenario results in the 4 conferences turning to a a better fit G-5. For example, what does the P16 get from Kansas State, that is not obtained by New Mexico, maybe even Hawaii. As to the ACC, what does the ACC get with West Va, that is not obtained by TCU, Navy, Cincinnati, or Tulane. Without doubt WVa is the better football program, but it adds almost no footprint and for 65 years UVa and Duke have been opposed to WVa. And with TCU in the SEC, what does the SEC get that is not already obtained by TAMU and Ok State. From a footprint standpoint West Va puts them in the DC and Pittsburgh suburbs.

I don't know if it's possible to get that result, and that's before ESPN shouts in the ear of the ACC and SEC.

How is WVU (Not WVa) a academic outlier in the ACC? That ship sailed when they invited Louisville. What does half of the SEC bring besides a good FB program? If they cared about footprint then why need 4 teams in NC?

WVa is a general admission college for natives of West Va - it's non-competitive. That is part of West Va's mission, but it runs counter to most ACC schools which are highly competitive on entry. It gives WVa a LEGITIMATE advantage over UVa, Duke, VT, Pitt and others. Then comes the issue of kids who might relocate into WVa to matriculate there or policy changes that WVa might undertake to allow kids from certain Ohio, Kentucky, Virginia, Pa, and MD counties to enter under the same policy.

It's more subtle than West Va having "poor" academics. Also, no one is going to be admitted that is an existential hell no to one of the old guard.

For some the issue is personal and existential. For others the issue are not so important, but they have issues. At a certain size it becomes less of an issue, especially if Duke, GT, UVa, and WF are not sharing a division with WVa.

I don't know why UConn keeps getting mentioned. Jesus Christ would have a difficult time getting UConn the votes in the ACC.
07-14-2017 06:54 PM
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