(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 12:55 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 11:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.

Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.

I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.

They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

The Ivy is not expanding unless someone leaves. If so, they'll either get a non-academy from the Patriot or call up a D-III like NYU.

IVY may like MIT better.

(07-11-2017 06:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 12:55 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.

I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.

They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

It's not politics. Cornell produced more WWI (or maybe it was WWII) officers than any other school in the nation.

The issue is that the Ivy schools are on a whole different academic level than the military academies, and the Ivy League schools aren't going to sacrifice the conference's almost mythical reputation. What does Brown have over Northwestern? Stanford? It's its Ivy membership. More than any other conference, the Ivy League isn't about football - or any other sport for that matter. It's about academics.

Schools like MIT and NYU have a shot. Even then, I think it's a long one. Schools like Navy don't.

(07-11-2017 10:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 06:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 12:55 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.

They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

It's not politics. Cornell produced more WWI (or maybe it was WWII) officers than any other school in the nation.

The issue is that the Ivy schools are on a whole different academic level than the military academies, and the Ivy League schools aren't going to sacrifice the conference's almost mythical reputation. What does Brown have over Northwestern? Stanford? It's its Ivy membership. More than any other conference, the Ivy League isn't about football - or any other sport for that matter. It's about academics.

Schools like MIT and NYU have a shot. Even then, I think it's a long one. Schools like Navy don't.

The Ivy League is one of just three FCS conferences that does not participate in the annual NCAA Division I Football Championship, and it is the only league that does not take part in any postseason play. The Ancient Eight season lasts 10 weeks and ends in late November, more than a month before the FCS tournament finishes. A change in the system, which dates back to 1945 and would need to be agreed on by all eight Ivy League presidents, remains unlikely in the coming years.

“The Ivy League presidents are not interested in allowing participation [in] the NCAA Division I Football Championship for several reasons, including its potential impact on academics with a schedule that extends into December and early January,” Ivy League Executive Director Robin Harris said. “[Ivy presidents] value Ivy League football as it currently exists and also believe the focus should be on the regular season in football, and that the traditions and the history of Ivy League football should be paramount.”

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/04...-unlikely/

Would the service academies pass on the opportunity for post-season play to be part of the Ivy League? Doubtful. Would the Ivy League compromise its policy against post-season play to add Army and Navy? Even more doubtful.

(07-12-2017 12:47 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 06:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

It's not politics. Cornell produced more WWI (or maybe it was WWII) officers than any other school in the nation.

The issue is that the Ivy schools are on a whole different academic level than the military academies, and the Ivy League schools aren't going to sacrifice the conference's almost mythical reputation. What does Brown have over Northwestern? Stanford? It's its Ivy membership. More than any other conference, the Ivy League isn't about football - or any other sport for that matter. It's about academics.

Schools like MIT and NYU have a shot. Even then, I think it's a long one. Schools like Navy don't.

The Ivy League is one of just three FCS conferences that does not participate in the annual NCAA Division I Football Championship, and it is the only league that does not take part in any postseason play. The Ancient Eight season lasts 10 weeks and ends in late November, more than a month before the FCS tournament finishes. A change in the system, which dates back to 1945 and would need to be agreed on by all eight Ivy League presidents, remains unlikely in the coming years.

“The Ivy League presidents are not interested in allowing participation [in] the NCAA Division I Football Championship for several reasons, including its potential impact on academics with a schedule that extends into December and early January,” Ivy League Executive Director Robin Harris said. “[Ivy presidents] value Ivy League football as it currently exists and also believe the focus should be on the regular season in football, and that the traditions and the history of Ivy League football should be paramount.”

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/04...-unlikely/

Would the service academies pass on the opportunity for post-season play to be part of the Ivy League? Doubtful. Would the Ivy League compromise its policy against post-season play to add Army and Navy? Even more doubtful.

I think that the service academies would 100% pass on an fcs playoff to be in the Ivy League. I think that even Alabama would at least consider it.

(07-12-2017 12:47 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 06:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

It's not politics. Cornell produced more WWI (or maybe it was WWII) officers than any other school in the nation.

The issue is that the Ivy schools are on a whole different academic level than the military academies, and the Ivy League schools aren't going to sacrifice the conference's almost mythical reputation. What does Brown have over Northwestern? Stanford? It's its Ivy membership. More than any other conference, the Ivy League isn't about football - or any other sport for that matter. It's about academics.

Schools like MIT and NYU have a shot. Even then, I think it's a long one. Schools like Navy don't.

The Ivy League is one of just three FCS conferences that does not participate in the annual NCAA Division I Football Championship, and it is the only league that does not take part in any postseason play. The Ancient Eight season lasts 10 weeks and ends in late November, more than a month before the FCS tournament finishes. A change in the system, which dates back to 1945 and would need to be agreed on by all eight Ivy League presidents, remains unlikely in the coming years.

“The Ivy League presidents are not interested in allowing participation [in] the NCAA Division I Football Championship for several reasons, including its potential impact on academics with a schedule that extends into December and early January,” Ivy League Executive Director Robin Harris said. “[Ivy presidents] value Ivy League football as it currently exists and also believe the focus should be on the regular season in football, and that the traditions and the history of Ivy League football should be paramount.”

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/04...-unlikely/

Would the service academies pass on the opportunity for post-season play to be part of the Ivy League? Doubtful. Would the Ivy League compromise its policy against post-season play to add Army and Navy? Even more doubtful.

I was making an analogy. This is a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation. The academies are not pursuing P5 conferences, they are evaluating G5 associations and may choose to play down. Their primary focus is on academics. They seek excellent students who are athletic. They make career military officers. Their emphasis is on math and sciences particularly engineering. In that regard they are not Ivy. The quip about the Ivies was intended to show the direction they are likely to go with regards to athletics. It wasn't meant to start a ridiculous debate about whether the Ivies would or wouldn't take the service academies.

But what the heck, I'm not trying to stop it so knock yourselves out. But the gist of what I was trying to convey is that the academies seem to be taking the direction away from the pursuit of big time college athletics and I don't see them joining any P conferences.

(07-12-2017 01:02 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 12:47 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 06:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

It's not politics. Cornell produced more WWI (or maybe it was WWII) officers than any other school in the nation.

The issue is that the Ivy schools are on a whole different academic level than the military academies, and the Ivy League schools aren't going to sacrifice the conference's almost mythical reputation. What does Brown have over Northwestern? Stanford? It's its Ivy membership. More than any other conference, the Ivy League isn't about football - or any other sport for that matter. It's about academics.

Schools like MIT and NYU have a shot. Even then, I think it's a long one. Schools like Navy don't.

The Ivy League is one of just three FCS conferences that does not participate in the annual NCAA Division I Football Championship, and it is the only league that does not take part in any postseason play. The Ancient Eight season lasts 10 weeks and ends in late November, more than a month before the FCS tournament finishes. A change in the system, which dates back to 1945 and would need to be agreed on by all eight Ivy League presidents, remains unlikely in the coming years.

“The Ivy League presidents are not interested in allowing participation [in] the NCAA Division I Football Championship for several reasons, including its potential impact on academics with a schedule that extends into December and early January,” Ivy League Executive Director Robin Harris said. “[Ivy presidents] value Ivy League football as it currently exists and also believe the focus should be on the regular season in football, and that the traditions and the history of Ivy League football should be paramount.”

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/04...-unlikely/

Would the service academies pass on the opportunity for post-season play to be part of the Ivy League? Doubtful. Would the Ivy League compromise its policy against post-season play to add Army and Navy? Even more doubtful.

I was making an analogy. This is a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation. The academies are not pursuing P5 conferences, they are evaluating G5 associations and may choose to play down. Their primary focus is on academics. They seek excellent students who are athletic. They make career military officers. Their emphasis is on math and sciences particularly engineering. In that regard they are not Ivy. The quip about the Ivies was intended to show the direction they are likely to go with regards to athletics. It wasn't meant to start a ridiculous debate about whether the Ivies would or wouldn't take the service academies.

But what the heck, I'm not trying to stop it so knock yourselves out. But the gist of what I was trying to convey is that the academies seem to be taking the direction away from the pursuit of big time college athletics and I don't see them joining any P conferences.

I get it, and I agree with your view that the academies no longer have an interest (if they ever did) in joining the power conference ranks.

Having said that, I don't feel ridiculous putting up a post or two explaining why I don't believe the academies would willingly choose to step down a level, even to mingle with the academic elite. Those who understand the lengths the academies have gone to in order to be competitive in D-I FBS athletics -- for example their sponsorship of taxpayer-financed sports-oriented academy prep schools that enjoy a waiver from NCAA rules -- know better.

In that vein, I offer the article linked below to anyone interested enough in the ridiculous debate to bother reading it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/sport...tball.html

(07-12-2017 01:02 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 12:47 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 06:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

It's not politics. Cornell produced more WWI (or maybe it was WWII) officers than any other school in the nation.

The issue is that the Ivy schools are on a whole different academic level than the military academies, and the Ivy League schools aren't going to sacrifice the conference's almost mythical reputation. What does Brown have over Northwestern? Stanford? It's its Ivy membership. More than any other conference, the Ivy League isn't about football - or any other sport for that matter. It's about academics.

Schools like MIT and NYU have a shot. Even then, I think it's a long one. Schools like Navy don't.

The Ivy League is one of just three FCS conferences that does not participate in the annual NCAA Division I Football Championship, and it is the only league that does not take part in any postseason play. The Ancient Eight season lasts 10 weeks and ends in late November, more than a month before the FCS tournament finishes. A change in the system, which dates back to 1945 and would need to be agreed on by all eight Ivy League presidents, remains unlikely in the coming years.

“The Ivy League presidents are not interested in allowing participation [in] the NCAA Division I Football Championship for several reasons, including its potential impact on academics with a schedule that extends into December and early January,” Ivy League Executive Director Robin Harris said. “[Ivy presidents] value Ivy League football as it currently exists and also believe the focus should be on the regular season in football, and that the traditions and the history of Ivy League football should be paramount.”

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/04...-unlikely/

Would the service academies pass on the opportunity for post-season play to be part of the Ivy League? Doubtful. Would the Ivy League compromise its policy against post-season play to add Army and Navy? Even more doubtful.

I was making an analogy. This is a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation. The academies are not pursuing P5 conferences, they are evaluating G5 associations and may choose to play down. Their primary focus is on academics. They seek excellent students who are athletic. They make career military officers. Their emphasis is on math and sciences particularly engineering. In that regard they are not Ivy. The quip about the Ivies was intended to show the direction they are likely to go with regards to athletics. It wasn't meant to start a ridiculous debate about whether the Ivies would or wouldn't take the service academies.

But what the heck, I'm not trying to stop it so knock yourselves out. But the gist of what I was trying to convey is that the academies seem to be taking the direction away from the pursuit of big time college athletics and I don't see them joining any P conferences.

This is a "passed the forest 30 minutes ago while driving on the highway situation." The argument isn't about what you wrote. It just happens to have started on a post that was quoting you. But that was just by chance.

(07-12-2017 12:47 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 06:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

IIRC, there's bad blood between the Ivy and the academies dating back to the Vietnam War. Liberal and conservative politics.

It's not politics. Cornell produced more WWI (or maybe it was WWII) officers than any other school in the nation.

The issue is that the Ivy schools are on a whole different academic level than the military academies, and the Ivy League schools aren't going to sacrifice the conference's almost mythical reputation. What does Brown have over Northwestern? Stanford? It's its Ivy membership. More than any other conference, the Ivy League isn't about football - or any other sport for that matter. It's about academics.

Schools like MIT and NYU have a shot. Even then, I think it's a long one. Schools like Navy don't.

The Ivy League is one of just three FCS conferences that does not participate in the annual NCAA Division I Football Championship, and it is the only league that does not take part in any postseason play. The Ancient Eight season lasts 10 weeks and ends in late November, more than a month before the FCS tournament finishes. A change in the system, which dates back to 1945 and would need to be agreed on by all eight Ivy League presidents, remains unlikely in the coming years.

“The Ivy League presidents are not interested in allowing participation [in] the NCAA Division I Football Championship for several reasons, including its potential impact on academics with a schedule that extends into December and early January,” Ivy League Executive Director Robin Harris said. “[Ivy presidents] value Ivy League football as it currently exists and also believe the focus should be on the regular season in football, and that the traditions and the history of Ivy League football should be paramount.”

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/04...-unlikely/

Would the service academies pass on the opportunity for post-season play to be part of the Ivy League? Doubtful. Would the Ivy League compromise its policy against post-season play to add Army and Navy? Even more doubtful.

Would the IVY League participate in a short non-scholarship football playoffs? We could bring up some D3 conferences from West Coast to the East coast, and include Pioneer League who could are winners but did not make it into the FCS playoffs. Dayton and San Diego seem to have the better records, but one of them always get left out. A 4 week playoffs could be in the works. May have a west coast non-scholarship conference from California, Oregon and Washington that San Diego could join as an affiliate?

The Ivy would consider a bowl game, perhaps with a Patriot League team. That's about it.

(07-12-2017 08:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Ivy would consider a bowl game, perhaps with a Patriot League team. That's about it.

I know you said "consider" instead of "agree to," but I'd be amazed if the Ivy League agreed to a bowl game against anyone ever. The conference makes way too much money not playing in bowls to change their stance. Being able to use the "we don't care about football" line enhances the academic reputation of the conference, which is extremely valuable to the member schools, and it directly impacts donations and student recruitment.

(07-12-2017 08:23 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Ivy would consider a bowl game, perhaps with a Patriot League team. That's about it.

I know you said "consider" instead of "agree to," but I'd be amazed if the Ivy League agreed to a bowl game against anyone ever. The conference makes way too much money not playing in bowls to change their stance. Being able to use the "we don't care about football" line enhances the academic reputation of the conference, which is extremely valuable to the member schools, and it directly impacts donations and student recruitment.

I think they lost their mojo when many like minded schools dropped to lower levels. As it is, I am surprised that a couple of D3 conferences agreed to play in a new bowl at that level.

(07-12-2017 08:23 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Ivy would consider a bowl game, perhaps with a Patriot League team. That's about it.

I know you said "consider" instead of "agree to," but I'd be amazed if the Ivy League agreed to a bowl game against anyone ever. The conference makes way too much money not playing in bowls to change their stance. Being able to use the "we don't care about football" line enhances the academic reputation of the conference, which is extremely valuable to the member schools, and it directly impacts donations and student recruitment.

I don't think playing or not playing one extra football game a year would really have an impact on the academic reputation of the Ivy League schools.

(07-12-2017 08:23 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Ivy would consider a bowl game, perhaps with a Patriot League team. That's about it.

I know you said "consider" instead of "agree to," but I'd be amazed if the Ivy League agreed to a bowl game against anyone ever. The conference makes way too much money not playing in bowls to change their stance. Being able to use the "we don't care about football" line enhances the academic reputation of the conference, which is extremely valuable to the member schools, and it directly impacts donations and student recruitment.

I said they'd consider it, not that it was likely. And it'd be for their champion only.

I think it depends on the service academy and its leadership. Given Army's current leadership, they would go to the Ivy schedule IF it meant they could still play Navy and Air Force. That definitely wasn't the way of things in the 70's and early 80's when both Army and Navy were integral parts of an eastern football conference discussion. Of course, both programs dropped off hideously in the 80's and 90's, and, now reflect this cautious shell of what once were pillars of college football.

Just as important as to understand that the Big East Navy agreed to join when it approached and finally announced was still a major conference with AQ in the BCS structure. Can we stop forgetting this?

I'm not that old, but understand the Ivy was receptive to the idea of possibly expanding with the SA's. 80's? I'm not sold the conference will never change on some of its things...the men's basketball conference tournament was a big deal. And, you have some football members who want another game in the season.

(07-12-2017 09:08 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:23 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Ivy would consider a bowl game, perhaps with a Patriot League team. That's about it.

I know you said "consider" instead of "agree to," but I'd be amazed if the Ivy League agreed to a bowl game against anyone ever. The conference makes way too much money not playing in bowls to change their stance. Being able to use the "we don't care about football" line enhances the academic reputation of the conference, which is extremely valuable to the member schools, and it directly impacts donations and student recruitment.

I don't think playing or not playing one extra football game a year would really have an impact on the academic reputation of the Ivy League schools.

You're extremely wrong. They do it for the same reason that Jack exists in a dry county. It's exceptionally good marketing. That's why the rule only impacts football (the sport that people care about), and not a bunch of other sports (which are actually far more inconvienced).

(07-12-2017 09:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:23 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Ivy would consider a bowl game, perhaps with a Patriot League team. That's about it.

I know you said "consider" instead of "agree to," but I'd be amazed if the Ivy League agreed to a bowl game against anyone ever. The conference makes way too much money not playing in bowls to change their stance. Being able to use the "we don't care about football" line enhances the academic reputation of the conference, which is extremely valuable to the member schools, and it directly impacts donations and student recruitment.

I said they'd consider it, not that it was likely. And it'd be for their champion only.

Agreed on the first part - and only impacting the champion doesn't make it noticeably better.

I doubt the Power 5 will take anyone. If Boise St wasn't upgraded to the PAC 12, upgrading anyone else is dreaming.

Short of becoming Idaho's flagship, Boise has reached its ceiling.