Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
What non-power schools...?
Author Message
_C2_ Online
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,070
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #41
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-10-2017 06:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Could the P5 allow Boise State go Independent? They are a program that is a P5 status, but do not have the academics. They do bring in money, but the academics is hurting them right now.

First off, Boise hasn't been all that good lately and second of all, they're a one trick pony, no pun intended. Once football declines as it already has, what's next? They'll have more potatoes growing in the fields than fans. They're in a minor market and small state with no major metros close by and the few in shouting distance are already spoken for. Basketball is usually decent but not very good.

Let's just say they are very lucky to be where they are and not like Idaho dropping back to the Big Sky.
07-11-2017 02:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,820
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 114
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #42
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 02:11 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 06:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Could the P5 allow Boise State go Independent? They are a program that is a P5 status, but do not have the academics. They do bring in money, but the academics is hurting them right now.

First off, Boise hasn't been all that good lately and second of all, they're a one trick pony, no pun intended. Once football declines as it already has, what's next? They'll have more potatoes growing in the fields than fans. They're in a minor market and small state with no major metros close by and the few in shouting distance are already spoken for. Basketball is usually decent but not very good.

Let's just say they are very lucky to be where they are and not like Idaho dropping back to the Big Sky.


They have not have 1 losing season since the 1996 season. Yeah, they went 8-4 in the regular season, but they still beat 2 PAC 12 teams and a BYU team last year. One of the PAC 12 team beat Washington State who played second fiddle to Washington in the north last year. Since 1999, Boise State still have the best win-lost record better than any of the P5 schools out there. They are number 1 in that department. They replaced Ohio State who had to forfeit a lot of their games because of the Tatoo gate scandal.
07-11-2017 02:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Online
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,070
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #43
RE: What non-power schools...?
They haven't had a losing season but they have declined from their peak of a decade or so ago. They're still a name but not quite as relevant. They don't even win their conference every year or close to it.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2017 09:54 AM by _C2_.)
07-11-2017 03:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Cutter of Bish Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,275
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 80
I Root For: the little guy
Location:
Post: #44
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-10-2017 05:47 PM)lew240z Wrote:  As far as changing to another G conference, why would they?

In the current landscape, none. But that's low hanging fruit. They were just as busy as others allegedly during the big shifts of five or so years ago. AQ was the prize with BE fb, but it wasn't like they were all rosy about the potential of a gutted MWC and CUSA merger.
07-11-2017 04:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
lew240z Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 664
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 20
I Root For: Wyoming
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Post: #45
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 01:10 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 05:47 PM)lew240z Wrote:  Air Force has no interest at all in being in the same conference as Navy and Army. None. If they did, it would have already happened. Either Air Force or Colorado State would leave the other behind for the PAC 12 or Big XII. Neither has the slightest chance at the other P5's and I doubt that Air Force is acceptable to PAC since it is military and does virtually no research.

As far as changing to another G conference, why would they?

I thought that Air Force turned down the Big XII twice already?

They did, but there is a new Commandant and a new AD. They seem to be more open to the Big XII.
07-11-2017 08:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Cutter of Bish Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,275
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 80
I Root For: the little guy
Location:
Post: #46
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 08:13 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 01:10 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 05:47 PM)lew240z Wrote:  Air Force has no interest at all in being in the same conference as Navy and Army. None. If they did, it would have already happened. Either Air Force or Colorado State would leave the other behind for the PAC 12 or Big XII. Neither has the slightest chance at the other P5's and I doubt that Air Force is acceptable to PAC since it is military and does virtually no research.

As far as changing to another G conference, why would they?

I thought that Air Force turned down the Big XII twice already?

They did, but there is a new Commandant and a new AD. They seem to be more open to the Big XII.

One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2017 09:03 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
07-11-2017 09:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
lance99 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,043
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 17
I Root For: Akron Zips
Location:
Post: #47
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 08:13 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 01:10 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 05:47 PM)lew240z Wrote:  Air Force has no interest at all in being in the same conference as Navy and Army. None. If they did, it would have already happened. Either Air Force or Colorado State would leave the other behind for the PAC 12 or Big XII. Neither has the slightest chance at the other P5's and I doubt that Air Force is acceptable to PAC since it is military and does virtually no research.

As far as changing to another G conference, why would they?

I thought that Air Force turned down the Big XII twice already?

They did, but there is a new Commandant and a new AD. They seem to be more open to the Big XII.

One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?


I want to say when one of the times when AF was approached, Wyoming as part of a package, and the Big XII shot that down. That is my fault bad wording. I meant the Big XII on the second time04-cheers
07-11-2017 09:09 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
billybobby777 Offline
Fighting the cartel 5
*

Posts: 9,387
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 349
I Root For: ECU, Army
Location: Houston dont sleepon
Post: #48
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-10-2017 03:46 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 12:06 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The issue with Air Force will always be this: They will always be a package with at least one other Front Range School. That is extremely problematic if a Conference wants them.

When I run realignment theories or possibilities, I always struggle separating Wyoming/Colorado St/Air Force/New Mexico. These schools seem "stuck at the hip" by choice. I believe these four should always stay together because I'm all for rivalries and geography. Another four that I like together are Tulsa/SMU/Rice/Tulane because they are regionally close and all private. Heck, I'd even consider a merger of those 8 and UTEP.

Colorado State would leave the Front Range group behind in a heartbeat, if it means a solid athletics upgrade. I'm not sure the Rams consider any realistic options (AAC, Best of Rest?) enough of an upgrade over the MWC.

Air Force has both feet firmly planted in the Front Range; however, to be in a football conference with Navy and Army has been and will be considered. Air Force's biggest issue is a home for its Olympic sports. I note that it was the Falcon's former AD that shied from Big 12's interest and commented about the level of competition - not sure how the current administration views the world.

While the Falcons have played CSU and Wyoming more frequently than even Army and Navy, I note that Air Force has actually played SDSU more than New Mexico - and each of BYU and Notre Dame only 3 times fewer than Los Lobos.

Albuquerque is an AF town. KAFB is located in Albuquerque near UNM. UNM has some big beautiful buildings on KAFB. Those two partner up a lot. New Mexico and Colorado don't even charge each other out of state tuition when a kid leaves high school in Colorado to go to New Mexico or vice versa. As a BYU fan, I figure you know why UNM & AF are "attached at the hip" as some other poster put it. It won't be easy to pry the two away as their state governments/politicos have many financial....relationships.
Money and power all that jazz. I've learned a lot in my job working with federal contractors and state and federal governments. It makes you realize that there's reasons why these message board great ideas never happen the way we think they will.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2017 09:26 AM by billybobby777.)
07-11-2017 09:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
lew240z Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 664
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 20
I Root For: Wyoming
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Post: #49
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 08:13 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 01:10 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 05:47 PM)lew240z Wrote:  Air Force has no interest at all in being in the same conference as Navy and Army. None. If they did, it would have already happened. Either Air Force or Colorado State would leave the other behind for the PAC 12 or Big XII. Neither has the slightest chance at the other P5's and I doubt that Air Force is acceptable to PAC since it is military and does virtually no research.

As far as changing to another G conference, why would they?

I thought that Air Force turned down the Big XII twice already?

They did, but there is a new Commandant and a new AD. They seem to be more open to the Big XII.

One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?


I believe it was the year before when it looked like Texhoma was leaving. There have been rumors of contact even earlier.
07-11-2017 09:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AntiG Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 983
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 24
I Root For: Rutgers
Location: NYC
Post: #50
RE: What non-power schools...?
if all else fails, I don't see the B1G expanding at all unless the NCAA passes a ridiculous legislation to require 16 teams in a conference and no P5 schools can be touched.

If that happens... Rice & Houston would probably be the top choices due to being major schools in Texas (which is the #1 target region of expansion for the conference), and Tulane, Colorado State, UConn, UMass & Buffalo would be others under consideration. And considering the membership, since they cannot get what they really want (elite football school in a region that the conference wants expansion in that also has elite academics), most likely they'd start getting very rigid and vote for AAU only, which would leave the conference selecting between Rice, Tulane and Buffalo... meaning Rice and Buffalo would get the invitations.

However, luckily for the conference, there is no such scenario and they will be gunning for Texas and Oklahoma in a few years.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2017 10:02 AM by AntiG.)
07-11-2017 10:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Cutter of Bish Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,275
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 80
I Root For: the little guy
Location:
Post: #51
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 09:32 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 08:13 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 01:10 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 05:47 PM)lew240z Wrote:  Air Force has no interest at all in being in the same conference as Navy and Army. None. If they did, it would have already happened. Either Air Force or Colorado State would leave the other behind for the PAC 12 or Big XII. Neither has the slightest chance at the other P5's and I doubt that Air Force is acceptable to PAC since it is military and does virtually no research.

As far as changing to another G conference, why would they?

I thought that Air Force turned down the Big XII twice already?

They did, but there is a new Commandant and a new AD. They seem to be more open to the Big XII.

One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?


I believe it was the year before when it looked like Texhoma was leaving. There have been rumors of contact even earlier.

I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.
07-11-2017 11:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 932
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 25
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #52
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?

I imagine Arkansas laughed heartily in their faces?
07-11-2017 11:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nzmorange Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,000
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 279
I Root For: UAB
Location:
Post: #53
RE: What non-power schools...?
ACC: Realistically? Notre Dame.
07-11-2017 12:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Online
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 21,581
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 625
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #54
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-10-2017 05:47 PM)lew240z Wrote:  Air Force has no interest at all in being in the same conference as Navy and Army. None. If they did, it would have already happened. Either Air Force or Colorado State would leave the other behind for the PAC 12 or Big XII. Neither has the slightest chance at the other P5's and I doubt that Air Force is acceptable to PAC since it is military and does virtually no research.

As far as changing to another G conference, why would they?

I have a hard time believing that.

As often as AFA has complained about having only two non-conference slots.

Now I will buy that AFA has zero interest if they are the western outlier with no regional schools. Someone cooks up a front rage defection that includes AFA, Colorado State, Wyoming and New Mexico and happens to include Army and Navy and they say no to that, then I'll buy into the zero interest argument.

From what has been reported no one has ever offered AFA a chance to join Army and Navy while remaining affiliated with the front range schools.
07-11-2017 12:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 15,553
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 827
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #55
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 11:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:32 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 08:13 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 01:10 AM)lance99 Wrote:  I thought that Air Force turned down the Big XII twice already?

They did, but there is a new Commandant and a new AD. They seem to be more open to the Big XII.

One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?


I believe it was the year before when it looked like Texhoma was leaving. There have been rumors of contact even earlier.

I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.

Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.
07-11-2017 12:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 767
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 41
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #56
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 11:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:32 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 08:13 AM)lew240z Wrote:  They did, but there is a new Commandant and a new AD. They seem to be more open to the Big XII.

One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?


I believe it was the year before when it looked like Texhoma was leaving. There have been rumors of contact even earlier.

I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.

Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.

I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.
07-11-2017 12:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nzmorange Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,000
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 279
I Root For: UAB
Location:
Post: #57
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 12:55 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 11:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:32 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?


I believe it was the year before when it looked like Texhoma was leaving. There have been rumors of contact even earlier.

I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.

Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.

I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.

They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.
07-11-2017 01:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,820
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 114
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #58
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 12:55 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 11:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:32 AM)lew240z Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:02 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  One of the instances was ahead of the TCU and WVU acquisitions, when the Big XII apparently approached them, Arkansas, Pitt, and some others. When was the other?


I believe it was the year before when it looked like Texhoma was leaving. There have been rumors of contact even earlier.

I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.

Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.

I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.


Not going to happen to split in three tiers. Too much money involved, and removing the G5 would cost the P5 a lot of money. Some of the highest P5/G5 matchups on tv right now are when Boise State, Houston and Temple are playing P5 schools. The P5 wants those schools to continue winning which will help them rake into more money.
07-11-2017 04:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
billybobby777 Offline
Fighting the cartel 5
*

Posts: 9,387
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 349
I Root For: ECU, Army
Location: Houston dont sleepon
Post: #59
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 12:55 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 11:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 09:32 AM)lew240z Wrote:  I believe it was the year before when it looked like Texhoma was leaving. There have been rumors of contact even earlier.

I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.

Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.

I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.

They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.
07-11-2017 04:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CrazyPaco Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,232
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 104
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #60
RE: What non-power schools...?
(07-11-2017 04:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 12:55 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 11:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think that might be the same one. The "deep dive" into Arky, Pitt, and AFA was done a bit before TCU and WVU amidst the panic. That "wish list" was something to keep Texas and Oklahoma happy enough. It didn't seem to matter: Texas still flirted with the PAC and OU and OSU went to the PAC for membership anyway, and once rejected, had to come to terms/compromise with a different set of schools.

I mean, maybe the conference went to AFA twice in that time to inquire and re-inquire, but that would have been, what...a year or less in-between? Within this relative episode of the B12 series?

I mean, it could be. AFAIK, Arkansas is to the Big XII as Army and Navy are/were to the Big East...kind of a right of first refusal arrangement. Maybe AFA was like that, too, but, if AFA was supposedly among the candidate pool of the last charade, they seem more like New Mexico in this thing: once desired, now, not so.

Before the events of 2010-2 occurred the service academies had decided not to pursue P conferences for a variety of reasons the chief of which was the health of their student athletes who give up an average of 80lbs per man against most P5 schools. A schedule with a couple of big games was seen as doable, but a week in and week out pounding only multiplied injuries many of which could be military career ending. Therefore the pursuit of a conference in which 75% of the games would be against such schools, the risk it imposed, and the objectives of the academies were found to be incompatible.

When the BCS expanded into the CFP the annual schedule of the academies would have also been interrupted by the extension of the season and even though they knew their schools were likely to never be a part of it they also knew that it would just continue to swell into an even bigger problem for them. So they are happy to remain in the G5 and evaluate whether even that is what is best for them.

So Air Force, Army, and Navy aren't going to make a public issue out of this, but they are quietly going to do what is best for their students, and to take the course that is best for the fulfillment of their mission.

So Air Force didn't dismiss the Big 12, they just didn't consider it. Nor would Navy likely consider the ACC. In most ways these schools probably should be in the Ivy League for athletic competition.

This year they quit giving waivers for draftees of professional sports teams. That decision alone has cemented their lower tier involvement in athletics and reaffirmed their goal of turning out the best military officers possible.

I believe Army and Navy to the Ivy League is a strong possibility if there is a separation of the power schools creating 3 tiers within Division I football. They fit geographically, academically, historically, and it'd be pretty cool to have Army-Harvard, Navy-Yale, etc.

They aren't academic fits. Times have changed since Holy Cross, RU, etc. invites. It won't happen.

Maybe....maybe not. Just 5 years ago I could see Army and Navy being no brainers for the Ivy. It's still a possibility. Not saying either party is interested, but if Army and Navy wanted to join the Ivy, the Ivy would consider it.

No they wouldn't.
07-11-2017 04:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.