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Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 10:07 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I see what you are saying. Then, yes----If you just want to use your 12th game as a CCG via the use of dynamic scheduling in the last game---you can do that. But you would face the same issue that the Big12 did---you'd only have 12 data points compared to 13 for most any other conference winner. That would likely play against the league champ in the CFP committee rankings.

Valid concern.

Oklahoma made it work last year though, with a de-facto CCG against OK St. They even delayed the end of their regular season by one week, to align this game with the rest of the P conf CCG's. But yes, valid concern.

I think the real problem is---what do you do with your already scheduled OOC games? And what happens if you already have a very attractive OOC schedule? For instance, last year I suspect Houston would have turned down a Premier League invite preferring to stick with their planned OOC that had Louisville and Oklahoma coming to Houston. If they had accepted the invite---that would have last minute created holes in other schools schedules and might result in the reluctance of P5's to schedule G5's (especially those likely to be promoted).

Its an interesting idea---but one that ultimately isnt really workable. I just dont think any kind of promotion/relegation system is going to work in college athletics because it affects budgets, ticket sales, and other revenue. Schools need to be able to count on revenue streams. By its very nature---a promotion/relegation system is unpredictable. I dont see university presidents, who, as a group, tend to be very conservative and risk averse--ever adopting such a system.

Which leads me back to a nationwide best of the rest being the ultimate answer for a group of high budget schools looking to try to hang with the P5 and hopefully be included in any future break away "power" division of football. Such a configuration remains the best (and probably only) chance to create a non-power conference with decent media value that MIGHT have a chance of making it into that final break away group (should it ever happen).
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 10:23 AM by Attackcoog.)
07-10-2017 10:18 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
Hey BillyBobby - do you know what is more annoying than a David ST post listing every single division II school ?

Someone quoting the entire post so I have to scroll through it again
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 10:21 AM by dbackjon.)
07-10-2017 10:20 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 10:18 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Which leads me back to a nationwide best of the rest being the ultimate answer for a group of high budget schools looking to try to hang with the P5 and hopefully be included in any future break away "power" division of football. Such a configuration remains the best (and probably only) chance to create a non-power conference with decent media value that MIGHT have a chance of making it into that final break away group (should it ever happen).

Do you think that conference needs to have 18-24 teams and if so then more than two divisions?
07-10-2017 10:31 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 10:20 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Hey BillyBobby - do you know what is more annoying than a David ST post listing every single division II school ?

Someone quoting the entire post so I have to scroll through it again

+100000000000000000000000000
07-10-2017 10:31 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 09:14 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 04:15 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 07:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Well there ARE things that COULD be done. They won't happen but they are FEASIBLE.

1. United television contract, everyone gets a base share and payments are based on the network and broadcast window.

2. G5 "Premier League". NCAA rules require an FBS league to have 8 full members playing football within the conference. The "Premier League" would be a football only "G6" league (or "P6" :) ) To form the league you rank everyone based on say the last three years of computer ratings. Ideally you want the 9 best or 12 best but you can't do that because it means a league would fall under the 8 member rule, so you cap how many can come from each league. MWC, AAC, and MAC could "contribute" up to four teams each, CUSA could "contribute" no more than 6 and Sun Belt no more than 2. So you take the list and you strike the teams rated 5-12 in AAC, MWC, MAC, 7-14 in CUSA, and 3-10 from Sun Belt and just take the 9 or 12 highest rated teams. Each league "contributing" a team gets one share of equity for each team "contributed". At the end of the season run the numbers again and redo it.

No realistic chance anyone does that, but any of it can happen under NCAA rules.


But, you do get some schools not from the G5 that are ranked higher in the computer rankings from the FCS level. North Dakota State made appearance in the final AP Poll a number of times. Eastern Washington also made an appearance. James Madison last year as well. Appalachian State also showed up which was the year they beat Michigan and ended the season beating Delaware in the FCS playoffs. I still think that the Southland, Big Sky, MVFC, Southern and CAA should be considered FBS conferences since those are the conferences that could beat FBS schools every year. You do get an Jacksonville State, Fordham, Liberty and sometimes an HBCU school making an upset.

But, you got to think that some FCS schools in key spots could help sell a TV package for the G5. Maybe a couple of D2 like Azusa Pacific to get the LA tv market.

Possible future G5 members?
Towson-Baltimore
Albany
Richmond
Stony Brook
Villanova (Temple cross town rivals)
Abilene Christian
UCA
Lamar
McNeese State
Sam Houston State
SFA
Southeast Missouri State
Tennessee State
Central Connecticut State
Robert Morris
Alabama State
Jackson State
Eastern Washington
Montana
Montana State
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota or South Dakota State the State school seems to be better at both men's basketball and football.
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Portland State
Sacramento State
Cal. Poly
Cal.-Davis
Illinois State
Indiana State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Chattanooga
The Citadel
East Tennessee State
Furman
Mercer
VMI
Wofford
Butler
Dayton
Duquesne
Valparaiso
Fordham
Stetson
Jacksonville
North Carolina A&T
Delaware State
Delaware
James Madison
Howard
Norfolk State
North Carolina Central
Savannah State
Florida A&M
Bethune-Cookman
Charleston Southern
Kennesaw State
North Alabama
Holy Cross
Lehigh
Georgetown

D2 in key areas.
Azusa Pacific
Lock Haven
West Chester
Bellarmine if they add football.
Florida Tech
West Florida
Valdosta State
St. Cloud State
Ferris State
Michigan Tech
Mankato State
Northern Michigan
Minn.-Duluth
Colorado Mesa
Carson-Newman
Texas A&M-Kingsville
Bloomsburg
Bowie State
Bridgeport
Charleston, WV.
Elizabeth City State
Fayetteville State
Gannon
Johnson C. Smith
Kentucky Wesleyan
Lincoln, Mo.
LIU-Post
Virginia Union
Wayne State, Mich.
Arkansas Tech
Harding
Henderson State
Ouachita Baptist
Southern Arkansas (Shreveport tv market)
Simon Fraser
Colorado Mines
Colorado State-Pueblo
New Haven
Albany State
Indianapolis
Fort Hays State
Washburn
Kentucky State
Assumption
Grand Valley State
Concordia-St. Paul
Concordia-Moorhead
Missouri Southern
Missouri Western
Eastern New Mexico
New Mexico Highlands
Western New Mexico
Le Moyne
Pace
Livingstone
U. of Mary
Ashland
Findlay
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
SW Oklahoma State
Western Oregon
Cal., Penn.
East Stroudsburg
Edinboro
Indiana, Pa.
Shippensburg
Slippery Rock
Augustana
Black Hills State
South Dakota Mines
Sioux Falls
Angelo State
Midwestern State
Tarleton State
Texas A&M-Commerce
UTPB
West Texas A&M
Dixie State (Las Vegas market. Replacement if UNLV gets picked for a P5 conference.)
Central Washington
Shepherd
West Liberty
Wheeling Jesuit

Possible spots if schools add football?
Milwaukee (MAC)
George Mason
VCU
Boston U.
Vermont
Bellarmine (Louisville)
Columbus State
North Florida
Tampa
FGCU
Long Beach State
Fullerton State
Wichita State
Cal.-Irvine
East Bay State
University of Texas at Tyler

I am not saying they all could go FBS, but there are some choices if you really want to reach tv markets to sell a G5 package. Both the MWC and SBC do not have much population for where their schools are located. I do not know why the two southern Alabama schools want to block out North Alabama? North Alabama does reached a market that they do not reached. Tennessee

Nice way to end a thread DavidSt. The same way you ruin every thread you post on huh? By cutting and pasting every single D-3 & D-2 school there is from a list on the internet. I didn't know there were 4 directional schools in Oklahoma though...so thanks for that.

Then you are no true college sports fan to know anything outside of your bubble. Look at what you are selling for a tv contract with these schools?

Wyoming
New Mexico
Tulane
Texas State
La.-Lafayette
La.-Monroe
Troy
Western Kentucky
Western Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Bowling Green
Kent State
Miami, Ohio
UConn.
Georgia Southern
Coastal Carolina
ECU
Appalachian State

You have a very not too populated areas when FCS and D2 have plenty. Grabbing schools like Missouri State, Portland State, North Alabama, Chattanooga, James Madison, Towson, Stony Brook, Albany and some others could add some good teams, but you do bring in some tv markets to sell. You just can't sell the G5 as a whole package to certain parts of the country to expect them to buy it. You need to add some carrots to make it worth while, or cable companies will not pick up on the Network.
07-10-2017 10:44 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 10:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:18 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Which leads me back to a nationwide best of the rest being the ultimate answer for a group of high budget schools looking to try to hang with the P5 and hopefully be included in any future break away "power" division of football. Such a configuration remains the best (and probably only) chance to create a non-power conference with decent media value that MIGHT have a chance of making it into that final break away group (should it ever happen).

Do you think that conference needs to have 18-24 teams and if so then more than two divisions?

I think you restrict a nationwide conference to 16-18 teams until there is a rule change allowing more than 2 divisions. That way your champ gets the 13th game CCG and your conference schedule stays at 8 games. That would be enough to do the job. Yes, 20-24 is probably optimum---but 16-18 is more than enough to get the job done until the rule change. Basically your goal is 3 fold---

1) Organize the best G5 names under one flag

2) Have enough members that you can create divisions with reasonable travel expenses

3) Create something close to a nationwide footprint.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 11:30 AM by Attackcoog.)
07-10-2017 11:25 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
Who are your two divisions of 8-9 schools, to get started? Basically the top 8-9 in the MWC and AAC?
07-10-2017 11:39 AM
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BalancedManSPE Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 11:39 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Who are your two divisions of 8-9 schools, to get started? Basically the top 8-9 in the MWC and AAC?

The MWC isn't 8-9 deep.. Maybe 3-4.
07-10-2017 11:44 AM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #69
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 11:39 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Who are your two divisions of 8-9 schools, to get started? Basically the top 8-9 in the MWC and AAC?

Mine would be:

East: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut, East Carolina, Central Florida, South Florida, Navy
West: San Diego St, Fresno St, Boise St, BYU, UNLV, Wyoming, Colorado St, Air Force, New Mexico

If BYU says no, then Tulsa.

I kept out Hawaii, San Jose St, Nevada, and Utah St from the Mountain West and Tulsa, SMU, and Tulane from the American to keep a strict East/West alignment.
07-10-2017 11:47 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
While attendance isn't the end-all-be-all factor, it is a telling indicator for the support of a football program.

By home attendance averages 2011-2016:

BYU = 59,482
...
ECU = 45,531
...
USF = 36,366
UCF = 35,776
Boise = 34,030
SDSU = 33,788

Navy = 33,162
Cincinnati = 32,121
Memphis = 31,331
Fresno = 31,089
UConn = 30,792
Houston = 30,746
Air Force = 30,624
...
Temple = 28,645
Hawaii = 28,003
...
CSU = 23,135 [upside w/ new 40K+ seat OCS]
New Mexico = 21,936
Nevada = 21,447

Tulane = 21,370
SMU = 21,199
Utah St. = 20,292
Tulsa = 20,160
Wyoming = 20,020
....
UNLV = 17,842 [upside w/the new 2020 NFL stadium (or not)?]
SJSU = 15,194


AAC average = 30,600

Best of the Rest?
Start with everyone above 30K and go from there. AAC and MWC schools with 30K+ would give you:

EAST: ECU, USF, UCF, Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn
WEST: Boise, SDSU, Navy, Fresno, Houston, Air Force
* Or, switch Memphis to the WEST and Navy to the EAST....

Leaves out Temple, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa from the AAC and takes only Boise, SDSU, Fresno, and Air Force from the MWC.

If BYU says "yes" add Temple to the EAST....and it probably doesn't make sense to even consider unless BYU is in.

Also FWIW, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa might fit in well in the revised MWC:

MOUNTAIN: CSU, New Mexico, Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, Wyoming
WEST: Hawaii, Nevada, Utah St., UNLV, SJSU, [add Idaho or NMSU or a Big Sky call-up]

FYI
12 of the P5 (18.4%) had AAC-like attendance numbers last year:
Maryland = 39,615
UVA = 39,292
Oregon St. = 37,622
Northwestern = 34,798
Purdue = 34,451
Syracuse = 32,805
Boston College = 32,157
Washington St. = 31,675
Vanderbilt = 31,272
Duke = 29,895
Wake Forest = 26,456
Kansas = 25,828

13 of P5 (20%) had ECU-like numbers (43-48K): Indiana, Minnesota, Rutgers, Illinois, TCU, Baylor, Utah, Cal, Colorado, ASU, Arizona, Georgia Tech, Pitt.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 12:47 PM by YNot.)
07-10-2017 12:42 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 11:47 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Mine would be:

East: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut, East Carolina, Central Florida, South Florida, Navy
West: San Diego St, Fresno St, Boise St, BYU, UNLV, Wyoming, Colorado St, Air Force, New Mexico

If BYU says no, then Tulsa.

I kept out Hawaii, San Jose St, Nevada, and Utah St from the Mountain West and Tulsa, SMU, and Tulane from the American to keep a strict East/West alignment.

I don't think BYU would do it. I think they're holding out hope for P5 invite, and if not then they like to think that being an Indy is a half-step above G5.

Would probably cut out Wyoming and BYU, replace with Houston and SMU in the West. Then in East add Army, to bring all service academies under one banner ... plus you never know, maybe one day Army will become as competitive as Navy and Air Force.
07-10-2017 12:55 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-08-2017 07:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Schools that I think could actually get an Independent with tv deals?

Schools with special deals.
Boise State ESPN
BYU ESPN
Air Force CBS Sports/Armed Forces Network
Army CBS Sports/Armed Forces Network
Navy CBS Sports/Armed Forces Network
Grambling State NBC
Southern U. NBC
North Dakota State ESPN

PAC 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC and longhorns Networks all could have filler games during football season.

I do not see many schools to be able to pull this off.

BYU
Army
UMass.

Who might be able to do this and be filler games for certain ESPN, SEC, ACC networks and Longhorns?

Eastern Washington
Montana
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa
McNeese State
Sam Houston State
West Texas A&M (Longhorn Network and play New Mexico, New Mexico State, UTEP, Texas Tech, Arizona, Arizona State, UTSA, Texas State, Air Force, Colorado State, SMU, North Texas and so forth)
Missouri State SEC and Longhorn Network
Wichita State SEC and Longhorns for if they add football.
Youngstown State ACC, AAC and SEC Youngstown could get a deal to be on the ACC Network because they have beaten Pittsburgh and played exciting games against them.
Jacksonville State as an SEC filler games. They do schedule SEC schools so they still be on the Network anyways.
West Florida same as Jacksonville State.
Chattanooga SEC Network. A lot of schools in the area to play like Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Memphis, Ole Miss, Miss. State, Arkansas, Arkansas State, Southern Miss., Alabama, Auburn, North Alabama, Jacksonville State, the Carolinas, Georgia, Georgia State, Georgia Tech, Georgia southern.
Towson could get it done with all the schools close by.
Delaware could also do it. CAA schools could be filler games on the ACC network. New Hampshire, Villanova, William and Mary, Richmond, Stony Brook, Albany, Maine and so forth already seemed to have an agreement to play ACC schools every year to the dismay of the CAA schools upsetting the ACC schools every year.
UTEP might be able to do this. They could play MWC, Big 12 and PAC 12 schools including New Mexico.
Houston could do it on their own.
UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, USF, Navy and Memphis could be able to do that.
Marshall, Southern Miss., Rice, Middle Tennessee State and Western Kentucky could do it.
Arkansas State, Georgia Southern, Kennesaw State, and so forth could work.
Toledo, Bowling Green, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan and Ohio could work out as well. Since these Networks for conferences would be tired out because why repeat games over and over again on off days? It could bring some of these Networks into new states without giving a full invite. Just make a deal with certain schools in your area in neighboring states to bring content to those states. It would be a coup for ESPN to have MWC, Big Sky, MVFC, Lone Star, GNAC, MAC, SBC, CAA, AAC, C-USA, Southern and many other conferences with large schools to be on their three main networks for the SEC, Longhorn and ACC Networks. You could get a coast to coast games on all three. I think would somebody on the east coast watch a great Azusa Pacific game on the SEC Network on a Thursday night game? Or a undefeated Colorado Mesa or Colorado State-Pueblo on a Thursday night game on the Longhorns Network? It could give some of these schools some exposure, and may help sell more tickets to these teams. We really do not give enough credit to the schools in the lower levels for how they do on the field enough. Exposing them in a large spotlight might help ESPN in a long run to sell these Networks, and to help these schools out big time. Minn-Duluth, Mankato State and St. Cloud State football on an ESPN Network could be cool as well. Spread the love around in case if the FBS does expand to add new conferences and schools? We could see these top D2 schools that do get some money make a move to D1 with the help from paychecks from these Networks as well.

[Image: giphy.gif]
07-10-2017 01:31 PM
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YNot Offline
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RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
Never send a human to do a machine's job.
07-10-2017 02:36 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
Put Rice, UTSA, UTEP, Marshall, Toledo and some others in a better conference, and have them faced some of the Big names? They could get over 30,000. UTSA had more than 30,000 in the Alamo Dome when they had P5 schools played against them there. UTSA is the one to watched for that is on the rise.
07-10-2017 05:59 PM
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RE: Football-Indy Syndicate: Possible secession plan for MWC schools prior to 2020
(07-10-2017 11:44 AM)BalancedManSPE Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 11:39 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Who are your two divisions of 8-9 schools, to get started? Basically the top 8-9 in the MWC and AAC?

The MWC isn't 8-9 deep.. Maybe 3-4.

San Jose St is a definite no, but Wyoming and Nevada are Flagships. Hawaii is a flagship but a million miles away. Utah St is kind of a second fiddle in their state. So I see at least 7 plus BYU as being a good group of schools. The others are all solid: Boise, Air Force, San Diego St, New Mexico, Colorado St, UNLV and Fresno I'd take in a heartbeat.
07-10-2017 07:03 PM
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