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Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #601
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
08-09-2019 04:09 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #602
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(08-09-2019 04:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Surprisingly, DavidSt is incorrect...

SIAA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_I...ssociation
SIAC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_I...Conference

What?

That didn’t tell me anything except the SIAC is a HBCU conference.

It said “refer to the SIAA”, which was called the SIAC at one point.

Regardless, ALL of those teams were NOT conference mates. His post is misleading.
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2019 09:07 AM by esayem.)
08-10-2019 09:06 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #603
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(08-10-2019 09:06 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 04:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Surprisingly, DavidSt is incorrect...

SIAA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_I...ssociation
SIAC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_I...Conference

What?

That didn’t tell me anything except the SIAC is a HBCU conference.

It said “refer to the SIAA”, which was called the SIAC at one point.

Regardless, ALL of those teams were NOT conference mates. His post is misleading.

I see that at the top of the SIAC article, it says the SIAA was also called the SIAC, but there's nothing in the SIAA article that mentions that. My point is that the defunct conference that lasted from 1894-1942 and spawned the SoCon was officially known as the SIAA (not the SIAC), and the existing conference that started in 1913 and consists largely of HBCUs is officially known as the SIAC.
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2019 09:29 AM by Nerdlinger.)
08-10-2019 09:27 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #604
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(08-10-2019 09:27 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-10-2019 09:06 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 04:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Surprisingly, DavidSt is incorrect...

SIAA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_I...ssociation
SIAC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_I...Conference

What?

That didn’t tell me anything except the SIAC is a HBCU conference.

It said “refer to the SIAA”, which was called the SIAC at one point.

Regardless, ALL of those teams were NOT conference mates. His post is misleading.

I see that at the top of the SIAC article, it says the SIAA was also called the SIAC, but there's nothing in the SIAA article that mentions that. My point is that the defunct conference that lasted from 1894-1942 and spawned the SoCon was officially known as the SIAA (not the SIAC), and the existing conference that started in 1913 and consists largely of HBCUs is officially known as the SIAC.

My apologies. I misread your post as he is “correct”!
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2019 09:42 AM by esayem.)
08-10-2019 09:41 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #605
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
How I wish realignment went:

Rewind to 1996:

ACC adds BC, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, VT, & Miami

SEC adds Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor

Big Ten adds Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa St

PAC 10 adds Utah, BYU, Colorado, and Colorado St

That’s a legit P4. A few schools get left out: Temple, Louisville, Cincy, K St, Okla St, Houston, TCU, Rice, SMU but you could probably put together a nice C-USA from the remnants.
08-10-2019 10:33 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #606
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(08-10-2019 10:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  How I wish realignment went:

Rewind to 1996:

ACC adds BC, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, VT, & Miami

SEC adds Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor

Big Ten adds Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa St

PAC 10 adds Utah, BYU, Colorado, and Colorado St

That’s a legit P4. A few schools get left out: Temple, Louisville, Cincy, K St, Okla St, Houston, TCU, Rice, SMU but you could probably put together a nice C-USA from the remnants.

Nah, rewind to 1978, and over time the following expansions take place:

ACC adds Boston College, Miami-FL, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Carolina (back), Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia

Big Ten adds Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, and Notre Dame; renamed Big 16

Pac-10 adds Colorado State, Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and Utah; renamed Pac-16

SEC adds Arkansas, Florida State, Georgia Tech (back), Louisville, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State
08-10-2019 03:56 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #607
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
I've been reconsidering one of the great CFB "what-ifs": Penn State to the Big East in the early '80s. Had that occurred, as well as the subsequent incorporation of the rest of northeastern indies into the Big East FB wing (as in our timeline), I think PSU would essentially have everything it wanted. (Or Paterno would, anyway.) Thus, I think they resist any attempt made by the Big Ten to woo them over.

Spurned, the Big Ten instead sets its sights west, perhaps picking off Nebraska while vainly holding spot #12 open for the Irish. ND of course spites the Big Ten by joining the Big East as a non-FB member in 1995. With the Big 8 down to a Big 7, they'd still gut the SWC to form the Big 12, but here Houston would manage to cling to the coattails of UT and A&M along with Tech and Baylor. Lacking a clean north/south divisional split, the Big 12 might opt for a zipper alignment, though it's hard to say.

Anyhow, I'll assume events otherwise proceed similarly to our timeline, at least until the ACC starts thinking about expansion in the early '00s. I'm wondering if the Big East is strong enough with PSU to resist defection. Maybe they're even strong enough to induce a defection from the ACC. Not necessarily the big score (FSU), but what about Maryland? UMD would get out from under the tobacco-stained thumb of the NC-VA bloc. Georgetown might object due to market competition, but I don't see much reason for any other Big East members to turn down the Terps.

The loss of UMD would put the ACC on shaky ground, potentially setting the stage for further defections (FSU? Clemson? GT?) -- perhaps to the Big East or even the SEC. But could the Big East's coalition of football-first and basketball-first schools, so fragile in our timeline, really continue to stick together? Or was the split inevitable, PSU or no?
09-03-2019 08:31 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #608
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Penn St has always been the great what if. I don’t think there is another school whose movement has had as much impact as Penn St choosing to go (mid)west.

A Joe Pa eastern conference raises so many potential what ifs. Does Penn St stay committed to that league? What do Miami and Florida St do? What does the power dynamic bet the Penn St conference and the ACC conference look like?

You bring up Nebraska to the Big Ten—might that also mean Colorado to the PAC 11? If that’s the case maybe the Big 12 is 6 SWC schools and 6 Big 8 schools, TCU and Houston making it in; SMU and Rice left out. That could have a big impact on the trajectories of both the WAC and C-USA and could mean that the MWC never forms.
09-04-2019 05:33 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #609
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
BYU and New Mexico would have got in the Big XII before a fifth and sixth Texas school.
09-04-2019 06:24 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #610
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
I thought about Colorado to the Pac in the early/mid-'90s, but I don't know if the Pac would have had anyone to pair them with. Utah had not yet emerged as a BCS buster, and Texas, though expressing interest in the Pac, wouldn't go because the Pac wasn't interested in adding any (or enough) Texahoma tag-alongs at the time. Granted, the Big Ten made do with 11 teams, but it was not a desirable situation, and they were only holding out for ND, which I assume the Big Ten perceived as reasonably possible then.

BYU could indeed have won the last slot in the Big 12 over Houston if Nebraska had already left for the Big Ten. There wasn't as much sensitivity toward BYU's extremely conservative politics back then, though the no-Sunday-play rule would still have been problematic for sports like basketball.
09-04-2019 07:41 AM
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Post: #611
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
The PAC 10 wouldn’t necessarily need a 12th. The Big Ten played with 11 teams and 8 conference games for years.

Maybe BYU goes to the Big 12 and Utah to the PAC 12?
09-04-2019 09:58 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #612
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
The Big XII had BYU on their radar after the conference formed and even went as far as trademarking the name “Big XIV”.
09-04-2019 01:12 PM
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RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
If BYU had been a founding member of the Big 12, it's not a given that the WAC-16 would have come about. However, if it had, perhaps there could have been a pod alignment that more naturally divided the teams.

Pod 1: Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa
Pod 2: Air Force, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming
Pod 3: Nevada, New Mexico, UNLV, UTEP
Pod 4: Fresno State, Hawaii, San Diego State, San Jose State

Losing BYU is obviously quite a hit, but replacing them with Nevada allows Utah to be grouped with their traditional CO/WY rivals. I don't know if this would necessarily have prevented a MWC split, especially since there are still the issues of significant travel and minimal conference payout.
09-06-2019 12:27 PM
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Post: #614
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(09-06-2019 12:27 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If BYU had been a founding member of the Big 12, it's not a given that the WAC-16 would have come about. However, if it had, perhaps there could have been a pod alignment that more naturally divided the teams.

Pod 1: Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa
Pod 2: Air Force, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming
Pod 3: Nevada, New Mexico, UNLV, UTEP
Pod 4: Fresno State, Hawaii, San Diego State, San Jose State

Losing BYU is obviously quite a hit, but replacing them with Nevada allows Utah to be grouped with their traditional CO/WY rivals. I don't know if this would necessarily have prevented a MWC split, especially since there are still the issues of significant travel and minimal conference payout.

University of Pacific still had a team at this time as well.

Teams left out of the WAC would be Pacific, Utah State, Houston, and later Idaho and Boise State. La. Tech, Northern Illinois, Arkansas State and some others became homeless. Boise State would never got an invite to FBS in this scenerio.
09-06-2019 02:20 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #615
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(09-06-2019 02:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 12:27 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If BYU had been a founding member of the Big 12, it's not a given that the WAC-16 would have come about. However, if it had, perhaps there could have been a pod alignment that more naturally divided the teams.

Pod 1: Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa
Pod 2: Air Force, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming
Pod 3: Nevada, New Mexico, UNLV, UTEP
Pod 4: Fresno State, Hawaii, San Diego State, San Jose State

Losing BYU is obviously quite a hit, but replacing them with Nevada allows Utah to be grouped with their traditional CO/WY rivals. I don't know if this would necessarily have prevented a MWC split, especially since there are still the issues of significant travel and minimal conference payout.

University of Pacific still had a team at this time as well.

Teams left out of the WAC would be Pacific, Utah State, Houston, and later Idaho and Boise State. La. Tech, Northern Illinois, Arkansas State and some others became homeless. Boise State would never got an invite to FBS in this scenerio.

With Nevada also leaving, the Big West would have an even greater need for I-AA callups. Boise State would certainly have been called up, just as they were in our timeline.

Pacific dropped football after the 1995 season, so no. Do a little damn research already.
09-06-2019 02:34 PM
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Post: #616
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(09-06-2019 12:27 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If BYU had been a founding member of the Big 12, it's not a given that the WAC-16 would have come about. However, if it had, perhaps there could have been a pod alignment that more naturally divided the teams.

Pod 1: Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa
Pod 2: Air Force, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming
Pod 3: Nevada, New Mexico, UNLV, UTEP
Pod 4: Fresno State, Hawaii, San Diego State, San Jose State

Losing BYU is obviously quite a hit, but replacing them with Nevada allows Utah to be grouped with their traditional CO/WY rivals. I don't know if this would necessarily have prevented a MWC split, especially since there are still the issues of significant travel and minimal conference payout.

So if BYU is in the Big 12 then who isn’t in the scenario you are describing? Instead of Nevada in there you might have Baylor instead of Nevada or in Tulsa’s spot. (Tulsa hooks their wagon to C-USA instead)
09-06-2019 05:21 PM
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RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(09-06-2019 05:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 12:27 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If BYU had been a founding member of the Big 12, it's not a given that the WAC-16 would have come about. However, if it had, perhaps there could have been a pod alignment that more naturally divided the teams.

Pod 1: Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa
Pod 2: Air Force, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming
Pod 3: Nevada, New Mexico, UNLV, UTEP
Pod 4: Fresno State, Hawaii, San Diego State, San Jose State

Losing BYU is obviously quite a hit, but replacing them with Nevada allows Utah to be grouped with their traditional CO/WY rivals. I don't know if this would necessarily have prevented a MWC split, especially since there are still the issues of significant travel and minimal conference payout.

So if BYU is in the Big 12 then who isn’t in the scenario you are describing? Instead of Nevada in there you might have Baylor instead of Nevada or in Tulsa’s spot. (Tulsa hooks their wagon to C-USA instead)

Sorry, I'm following up from my previous thoughts on Penn State joining the Big East in the early '80s and Nebraska joining the Big Ten in the early/mid-'90s.
09-06-2019 08:05 PM
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Post: #618
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
I follow you now. If this happens in 1996 that puts Big West football down to just Utah St and NMSU. At this point I see the non-football schools putting an end to the sport. The Sunbelt issues full member invites to NMSU, UNT and MTSU in that year and fb only invites to ULM and Utah St:

Ark St
ULL
LA Tech
UNT
NMSU
MTSU
ULM*
Utah St*

Non-fb:
USA
WKU
New Orleans
UALR
Lamar
UTPA (until they withdraw in ‘98)

Playing this scenario out I don’t see an airport meeting and the MWC never forms. TCU doesn’t feel jilted and go to C-USA in 2001. The WAC 16 holds until at least 2004.

I’m going to guess the SBC still adds Denver in 1999 and Troy in 2004.

2005 is tough. On one hand I see TCU leading the charge to take the quad 4 teams to C-USA and the WAC just staying at 12, distributing the Nevada schools with Hawaii and the CA schools and UNM and UTEP with the Airport 4 group. I can also see the WAC closing ranks and forcing C-USA to lick their wounds and rebuild with Marshall, UCF, and 2-4 SBC teams, which would really hit the SBC hard.

Regardless of what happens in 2005 I think FAU and FIU are both full members with football in the SBC in 2005. WKU and USA bring their fb programs to the SBC. Then their is Lamar—I don’t think they leave the SBC since revision world SBC has another Texas presence with UNT—they revive their program as FBS.

2010-2013 opens an opportunity for Utah St to take Utah’s WAC spot. The same culprits shuffle upwards—TCU, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, ECU, Tulane, and Tulsa creating room for SBC to C-USA shuffling and for new to FBS programs to come into the WAC, C-USA, and SBC:

Texas St
UTSA
GA St
ODU
Charlotte
GA Southern
App St
And a little school called Boise St who by this point probably has 10 FCS national titles
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2019 05:31 AM by Fighting Muskie.)
09-06-2019 10:36 PM
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