Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Author Message
chargeradio Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,184
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation: 82
I Root For: ALA, KY, USA
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #681
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-06-2020 03:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s lay out another what if scenario: The Big 12 takes Cincinnati and Louisville when they announced WVU and TCU on 10/28/11.

Pitt and Syracuse already had announced they were leaving on 09/17/11 so at this point 5 Big East football programs had homes lined up, 3 did not—UConn, USF, and Rutgers.
USF, UConn, Rutgers, and Temple agree to sell the Big East's BCS bid back to the BCS in exchange for a guaranteed distribution as independents - no where near the size of Notre Dame's distribution, but slightly more than they would have received if the football conference continued.

The Big 10 announces it is inviting Maryland and Rutgers for 2013. Florida State and Clemson do some sabre rattling about leaving for the Big 12, but ultimately the ACC invites UConn to replace Maryland.

The Big East (C7, Notre Dame, USF, Temple) spurns a deal with ESPN and signs with Fox, which of course would launch FS1 in 2013. Navy, who is not scheduled to join until 2015, announces it will remain independent, and signs multi-year agreements with both USF and Temple.

As part of the Big East deal, USF will join the Atlantic 10 in 2013, and Temple stays in the Atlantic 10, in exchange for Xavier and Butler.

With SMU, Houston, UCF, and Memphis all staying in C-USA as of the 2013 season, C-USA does not invite Charlotte (Atlantic 10/FCS), FIU (Sun Belt), Louisiana Tech (WAC), North Texas (Sun Belt), or UTSA (WAC). While they wouldn't have been invited until later, FAU and Middle Tennessee also don't leave the Sun Belt in 2013, and Western Kentucky doesn't leave in 2014.

The Sun Belt still invites Georgia State to join for the 2013 season, as it wants to move to divisional play. South Florida elects to remain independent, so the Sun Belt invites Appalachian State for 2013.

The WAC, which had already invited non-football schools Seattle, Denver, and Texas-Arlington prior to the movements in the AQ conferences, is in a bind. It decides to transform to a southern-based conference by inviting Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Old Dominion, effective with the 2013 season. Idaho is replaced by Coastal Carolina for the 2014 season. Denver leaves for the Summit effective the 2013 season. The WAC even pays the Mountain West to take Seattle as a non-football member to offset Hawaii's football-only membership. The WAC rebrands as the American Athletic Conference.

Chicago State, UTPA (now UTRGV), Cal State-Bakersfield, and NJIT keep the Great West alive until the Atlantic Sun takes NJIT in 2015. The Big West takes Cal-State Bakersfield for 2020. UTRGV eventually joins the AAC as a non-football member due to political pressures within the UT system.
03-08-2020 12:04 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
whittx Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 481
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 9
I Root For: FSU, Bport,Corn
Location:
Post: #682
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-06-2020 04:43 PM)AntiG Wrote:  what's missing from your scenario is the fact that the Big East/Big East leftovers held BCS/Power Conference status, so even if that complete implosion/earlier divorce occurred where the football schools were left for dead, they still retain those statuses and would then raid the lower conferences (CUSA, MAC, MWC, etc).

So assuming your scenario occurs where Cincy, Louisville, WVU, and TCU all leave for the XII after Pitt and Syracuse leave for the ACC and the conference divorces earlier, the conference still becomes The American:

Rutgers
South Florida
Temple
UConn

expands with:

Houston
Memphis
UCF
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Navy
Tulsa

Then Rutgers leaves for B1G, so they need two.

Obviously they try again for Army and Air Force after the SD State/Boise State/Air Force/BYU attempt falls through, but assuming that they both stay put in their decisions, they are likely looking at one to three of: Buffalo, UMass, App State, Southern Miss, UAB, Rice... just like now.

At the time it would be USM since the rest were either crap, on the brink of closing down the program, or were still in FCS.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 06:40 PM by whittx.)
03-08-2020 03:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #683
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-06-2020 04:43 PM)AntiG Wrote:  what's missing from your scenario is the fact that the Big East/Big East leftovers held BCS/Power Conference status, so even if that complete implosion/earlier divorce occurred where the football schools were left for dead, they still retain those statuses and would then raid the lower conferences (CUSA, MAC, MWC, etc).

So assuming your scenario occurs where Cincy, Louisville, WVU, and TCU all leave for the XII after Pitt and Syracuse leave for the ACC and the conference divorces earlier, the conference still becomes The American:

Rutgers
South Florida
Temple
UConn

expands with:

Houston
Memphis
UCF
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Navy
Tulsa

Then Rutgers leaves for B1G, so they need two.

Obviously they try again for Army and Air Force after the SD State/Boise State/Air Force/BYU attempt falls through, but assuming that they both stay put in their decisions, they are likely looking at one to three of: Buffalo, UMass, App State, Southern Miss, UAB, Rice... just like now.

You’re forgetting that the additional football schools being added were what drove the Catholic 7 away. ECU and Tulane were more than they can bear and truthfully, I think they were already having a hard time stomaching the idea of UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, and Temple as full members.

I’m of the opinion that if the Big East went from 8 football schools to 3 in a month’s time, considering the 3 that would be left the basketball schools would have canned football.
03-08-2020 04:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,402
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 112
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #684
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-08-2020 04:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 04:43 PM)AntiG Wrote:  what's missing from your scenario is the fact that the Big East/Big East leftovers held BCS/Power Conference status, so even if that complete implosion/earlier divorce occurred where the football schools were left for dead, they still retain those statuses and would then raid the lower conferences (CUSA, MAC, MWC, etc).

So assuming your scenario occurs where Cincy, Louisville, WVU, and TCU all leave for the XII after Pitt and Syracuse leave for the ACC and the conference divorces earlier, the conference still becomes The American:

Rutgers
South Florida
Temple
UConn

expands with:

Houston
Memphis
UCF
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Navy
Tulsa

Then Rutgers leaves for B1G, so they need two.

Obviously they try again for Army and Air Force after the SD State/Boise State/Air Force/BYU attempt falls through, but assuming that they both stay put in their decisions, they are likely looking at one to three of: Buffalo, UMass, App State, Southern Miss, UAB, Rice... just like now.

You’re forgetting that the additional football schools being added were what drove the Catholic 7 away. ECU and Tulane were more than they can bear and truthfully, I think they were already having a hard time stomaching the idea of UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, and Temple as full members.

I’m of the opinion that if the Big East went from 8 football schools to 3 in a month’s time, considering the 3 that would be left the basketball schools would have canned football.

No, it was not the additional football schools that drove them away, since several of the C7 would had to have voted in favor of adding them in the first place. And ECU was FB-only, so the C7 wouldn't have cared about them. Although you could make an argument for Temple's full member invite as helping to drive away Villanova, who I'm sure wouldn't have voted in favor of that. In any case, it was the loss of Syracuse (and Pitt) that was likely the final straw for the C7. Since the C7 knew they'd be parting ways with the FB wing of the conference soon enough, I don't think they much cared which FB schools were added after Syracuse announced their departure.

Setting aside the fact that an FBS conference needs 8 full, FB-playing members, I don't really know if the non-FB Big East schools could have voted to drop football, given that they don't play it and there were still FB-playing members. Additionally, they couldn't drop the sport as long as there were enough FB schools to prevent a supermajority (3 would have done it if the threshold were 75%).
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 05:41 PM by Nerdlinger.)
03-08-2020 05:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MidknightWhiskey Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 204
Joined: Oct 2019
Reputation: 22
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #685
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-08-2020 05:40 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 04:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 04:43 PM)AntiG Wrote:  what's missing from your scenario is the fact that the Big East/Big East leftovers held BCS/Power Conference status, so even if that complete implosion/earlier divorce occurred where the football schools were left for dead, they still retain those statuses and would then raid the lower conferences (CUSA, MAC, MWC, etc).

So assuming your scenario occurs where Cincy, Louisville, WVU, and TCU all leave for the XII after Pitt and Syracuse leave for the ACC and the conference divorces earlier, the conference still becomes The American:

Rutgers
South Florida
Temple
UConn

expands with:

Houston
Memphis
UCF
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Navy
Tulsa

Then Rutgers leaves for B1G, so they need two.

Obviously they try again for Army and Air Force after the SD State/Boise State/Air Force/BYU attempt falls through, but assuming that they both stay put in their decisions, they are likely looking at one to three of: Buffalo, UMass, App State, Southern Miss, UAB, Rice... just like now.

You’re forgetting that the additional football schools being added were what drove the Catholic 7 away. ECU and Tulane were more than they can bear and truthfully, I think they were already having a hard time stomaching the idea of UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, and Temple as full members.

I’m of the opinion that if the Big East went from 8 football schools to 3 in a month’s time, considering the 3 that would be left the basketball schools would have canned football.

No, it was not the additional football schools that drove them away, since several of the C7 would had to have voted in favor of adding them in the first place. And ECU was FB-only, so the C7 wouldn't have cared about them. Although you could make an argument for Temple's full member invite as helping to drive away Villanova, who I'm sure wouldn't have voted in favor of that. In any case, it was the loss of Syracuse (and Pitt) that was likely the final straw for the C7. Since the C7 knew they'd be parting ways with the FB wing of the conference soon enough, I don't think they much cared which FB schools were added after Syracuse announced their departure.

Setting aside the fact that an FBS conference needs 8 full, FB-playing members, I don't really know if the non-FB Big East schools could have voted to drop football, given that they don't play it and there were still FB-playing members. Additionally, they couldn't drop the sport as long as there were enough FB schools to prevent a supermajority (3 would have done it if the threshold were 75%).

This. Prior to the Big East getting members poached UCF and TCU accepted invites. Houston, SMU, Memphis, Temple and Navy we’re invited after the first wave of schools leaving. Then Tulane, ECU and Tulsa were added after Boise backed out and rejoined the MWC which forced SDSU to do the same.

If the Big East had accepted their contract with ESPN I doubt Pitt and Syracuse leave starting the poaching of the conference. That’d make the members: Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, USF, UConn, UCF, TCU.

I also think that if BYU had agreed to the Big East/AAC’s terms to include their home games in the conferences tv contract instead of doing their own tv network then Boise and SDSU don’t back out and the conference could of maintained its contract bowl and had been included in the CFP contract. The members then would of been:
EAST DIVISION: UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple, UConn
WEST DIVISION: Houston, SMU, Navy, Boise, BYU, SDSU

The Catholic 7 likely break off anyways, they really wanted the tournament to be held at Madison square garden and breaking off for a non fb conference allows them to be better represented.
03-08-2020 07:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #686
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-08-2020 12:04 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 03:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s lay out another what if scenario: The Big 12 takes Cincinnati and Louisville when they announced WVU and TCU on 10/28/11.

Pitt and Syracuse already had announced they were leaving on 09/17/11 so at this point 5 Big East football programs had homes lined up, 3 did not—UConn, USF, and Rutgers.
USF, UConn, Rutgers, and Temple agree to sell the Big East's BCS bid back to the BCS in exchange for a guaranteed distribution as independents - no where near the size of Notre Dame's distribution, but slightly more than they would have received if the football conference continued.

The Big 10 announces it is inviting Maryland and Rutgers for 2013. Florida State and Clemson do some sabre rattling about leaving for the Big 12, but ultimately the ACC invites UConn to replace Maryland.

The Big East (C7, Notre Dame, USF, Temple) spurns a deal with ESPN and signs with Fox, which of course would launch FS1 in 2013. Navy, who is not scheduled to join until 2015, announces it will remain independent, and signs multi-year agreements with both USF and Temple.

As part of the Big East deal, USF will join the Atlantic 10 in 2013, and Temple stays in the Atlantic 10, in exchange for Xavier and Butler.

With SMU, Houston, UCF, and Memphis all staying in C-USA as of the 2013 season, C-USA does not invite Charlotte (Atlantic 10/FCS), FIU (Sun Belt), Louisiana Tech (WAC), North Texas (Sun Belt), or UTSA (WAC). While they wouldn't have been invited until later, FAU and Middle Tennessee also don't leave the Sun Belt in 2013, and Western Kentucky doesn't leave in 2014.

The Sun Belt still invites Georgia State to join for the 2013 season, as it wants to move to divisional play. South Florida elects to remain independent, so the Sun Belt invites Appalachian State for 2013.

The WAC, which had already invited non-football schools Seattle, Denver, and Texas-Arlington prior to the movements in the AQ conferences, is in a bind. It decides to transform to a southern-based conference by inviting Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Old Dominion, effective with the 2013 season. Idaho is replaced by Coastal Carolina for the 2014 season. Denver leaves for the Summit effective the 2013 season. The WAC even pays the Mountain West to take Seattle as a non-football member to offset Hawaii's football-only membership. The WAC rebrands as the American Athletic Conference.

Chicago State, UTPA (now UTRGV), Cal State-Bakersfield, and NJIT keep the Great West alive until the Atlantic Sun takes NJIT in 2015. The Big West takes Cal-State Bakersfield for 2020. UTRGV eventually joins the AAC as a non-football member due to political pressures within the UT system.

An interesting take.

Something to think about though is that Temple wasn’t announced as a member until March 2012 and only after all the other schools they added or lined up to add UCF, Houston, SMU, Boise St, San Diego St, and Memphis all said no to committing to play in 2012 (and Navy wasn’t lined up to play until 2015) to start in 2013.

When it comes down to it, they simply don’t have the schools to play a 2012 season and by the end of 2012 they lose 2 of the last 3 football schools.
03-08-2020 09:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
schmolik Online
2nd String
*

Posts: 378
Joined: Sep 2019
Reputation: 19
I Root For: UIUC, PSU, Nova
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Post: #687
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Temple never gets kicked out of the Big East and becomes a full member despite Villanova's objections.

We can do it one of two ways.

1) Temple gets in as a full member instead of Rutgers (or West Virginia) back in 1994. If it was based on men's basketball merit, that should have happened. Imagine Temple in Big East men's basketball near the peak of the John Chaney era. Maybe they would have been attractive enough for the ACC or Big Ten. Or Rutgers doesn't get into the Big Ten and UConn does. Remember Rutgers was closed to if not as bad as Temple was in football around the same time Temple was kicked out. They just lucked into Schiano a few years later.

2) Temple gets to stay instead of South Florida replacing them. Why bring in a completely geographically incompatible program with no history in the conference at all instead of just keeping Temple? Ever heard of the phrase beggars can't be choosers? Now eventually South Florida joins (Central Florida did too) when Syracuse and Pittsburgh left and the Catholic 7 likely split. By then Temple would have had fewer years in Big East men's basketball they'd be not as attractive to the Big Ten and ACC and probably in not much better shape than they are right now or than where UConn is right now (at least UConn will be allowed in the Big East unlike Temple).
03-20-2020 08:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,402
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 112
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #688
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-20-2020 08:58 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Temple never gets kicked out of the Big East and becomes a full member despite Villanova's objections.

We can do it one of two ways.

1) Temple gets in as a full member instead of Rutgers (or West Virginia) back in 1994. If it was based on men's basketball merit, that should have happened. Imagine Temple in Big East men's basketball near the peak of the John Chaney era. Maybe they would have been attractive enough for the ACC or Big Ten. Or Rutgers doesn't get into the Big Ten and UConn does. Remember Rutgers was closed to if not as bad as Temple was in football around the same time Temple was kicked out. They just lucked into Schiano a few years later.

2) Temple gets to stay instead of South Florida replacing them. Why bring in a completely geographically incompatible program with no history in the conference at all instead of just keeping Temple? Ever heard of the phrase beggars can't be choosers? Now eventually South Florida joins (Central Florida did too) when Syracuse and Pittsburgh left and the Catholic 7 likely split. By then Temple would have had fewer years in Big East men's basketball they'd be not as attractive to the Big Ten and ACC and probably in not much better shape than they are right now or than where UConn is right now (at least UConn will be allowed in the Big East unlike Temple).

USF was added to the Big East in an attempt to retain some of the exposure the rest of the conference had in Florida when Miami was a member. Although I don't think it was a one-for-one thing, because USF was only brought on after BC announced they were leaving.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2020 12:14 PM by Nerdlinger.)
03-20-2020 12:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
schmolik Online
2nd String
*

Posts: 378
Joined: Sep 2019
Reputation: 19
I Root For: UIUC, PSU, Nova
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Post: #689
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
It was discussed in the 2024 realignment thread (https://csnbbs.com/thread-896467-post-16...id16750767) that the vote to bring Penn State into the Big Ten was 7-3 and seven was the required number of votes for Penn State to get in, had one vote gone against Penn State, PSU wouldn't have gotten in. Also, there is another article at Penn Live mentioning former ACC commissioner Gene Corrigan saying he would have loved Penn State in the ACC and it speculated some of the ramifications if Penn State had joined the ACC instead of the Big Ten.

https://www.pennlive.com/sports/2013/07/...g_ten.html

"Had PSU become an ACC rather than Big Ten member in 1990, the potential ramifications by this time are staggering. Florida State likely would have still come aboard in 1991 to make the ACC 10 schools. But what about the 2003 expansion that added Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College from the Big East? Would the ACC have bothered with BC with Penn State already in the fold and surely dominating the Northeast college football market? And is there any conceivable way Maryland leaves the ACC last year with neighbor PSU already in?

Moreover, does the Big Ten have the ratings boom-pow to launch the Big Ten Network with such audacity and demand the rates from cable providers it has? Does it make the money it has without Penn State? Does Nebraska jump from the Big 12 without that guaranteed annual revenue?"
03-24-2020 07:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #690
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Let’s say that Penn St move to the ACC and it’s followed up by Florida St for a 10 team conference.

Miami plus another add in 2004 or even sooner seems sensible. Your candidate pool is likely VT, Cuse, BC, with outside chances for Pitt. I think the two worth the best shot are VT (VA state politics) and Cuse (Penn St being a huge motivator to join.

Regardless of who #12 is, the ranks of the eastern independents are pretty depleted:

Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, BC, WVU, VT/Cuse
03-24-2020 12:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
schmolik Online
2nd String
*

Posts: 378
Joined: Sep 2019
Reputation: 19
I Root For: UIUC, PSU, Nova
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Post: #691
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-24-2020 12:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s say that Penn St move to the ACC and it’s followed up by Florida St for a 10 team conference.

Miami plus another add in 2004 or even sooner seems sensible. Your candidate pool is likely VT, Cuse, BC, with outside chances for Pitt. I think the two worth the best shot are VT (VA state politics) and Cuse (Penn St being a huge motivator to join.

Regardless of who #12 is, the ranks of the eastern independents are pretty depleted:

Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, BC, WVU, VT/Cuse

If you had PSU and FSU in the ACC, then in 2004 "Miami plus another add" means Miami and Virginia Tech, no Syracuse or anyone else. Probably Boston College or Connecticut joins with Syracuse in 2011. Remember BC wouldn't be able to block Syracuse if they weren't a member. Back in 2004 UConn didn't have FBS football at all so BC was obvious over Connecticut in 2004 but they did in 2011 and did win the Big East one year and when Syracuse was admitted UConn was the men's basketball national champions. Imagine if UConn and BC were in the Big East together playing each other in football. What if UConn were better? One advantage Boston College had was they were pretty tight with Miami. Then Maryland never leaves. Pittsburgh and Louisville probably remain out.
03-24-2020 01:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,783
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 95
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #692
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-24-2020 01:50 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-24-2020 12:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s say that Penn St move to the ACC and it’s followed up by Florida St for a 10 team conference.

Miami plus another add in 2004 or even sooner seems sensible. Your candidate pool is likely VT, Cuse, BC, with outside chances for Pitt. I think the two worth the best shot are VT (VA state politics) and Cuse (Penn St being a huge motivator to join.

Regardless of who #12 is, the ranks of the eastern independents are pretty depleted:

Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, BC, WVU, VT/Cuse

If you had PSU and FSU in the ACC, then in 2004 "Miami plus another add" means Miami and Virginia Tech, no Syracuse or anyone else. Probably Boston College or Connecticut joins with Syracuse in 2011. Remember BC wouldn't be able to block Syracuse if they weren't a member. Back in 2004 UConn didn't have FBS football at all so BC was obvious over Connecticut in 2004 but they did in 2011 and did win the Big East one year and when Syracuse was admitted UConn was the men's basketball national champions. Imagine if UConn and BC were in the Big East together playing each other in football. What if UConn were better? One advantage Boston College had was they were pretty tight with Miami. Then Maryland never leaves. Pittsburgh and Louisville probably remain out.

I think if the ACC went to 12 with Penn St, Florida St, Miami, and Virginia Tech then the B1G eventually (any perhaps quickly) goes to 12 with Pittsburgh and Syracuse. The ACC does North/South and B1G does East/West (never touching Leaders/Legends.)

ACC
North: Penn St, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Duke
South: North Carolina St, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St, Miami

B1G
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue
East: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

PAC eventually goes to 12 with Utah and Colorado.
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford
South: USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado

SEC still at 12 with South Carolina and Arkansas.
West: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
East: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

XII, now at 11 adds BYU for football-only (other sports in WCC)
North: BYU, Nebraska, Iowa St, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St
South: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor
03-24-2020 02:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #693
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Where does that leave everyone else?

Big East: BC
A-10: Rutgers, Temple, WVU
C-USA/Metro: Cincy, L’ville, Memphis, USM, Tulane, Houston (later UAB, USF, ECU)

Does BC and the A-10 trio stay independent or do they try to form a conference somewhere?
03-24-2020 04:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,783
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 95
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #694
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-24-2020 04:28 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Where does that leave everyone else?

Big East: BC
A-10: Rutgers, Temple, WVU
C-USA/Metro: Cincy, L’ville, Memphis, USM, Tulane, Houston (later UAB, USF, ECU)

Does BC and the A-10 trio stay independent or do they try to form a conference somewhere?

As a continuation of my previous post...

(Assuming we end up with the same 130 we have today)

I would think CUSA forms to become:
South: TCU, Houston, Tulane, Southern Miss, Memphis, South Florida
East: Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Temple, Rutgers, Boston College

The MT WEST becomes:
West: Hawaii, San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, Wyoming, Colorado St
East: Air Force, New Mexico, UTEP, SMU, Rice, Tulsa

(I won't spell out the rest at this time)

B1G, SEC, and ACC go to 14:
B1G grabs Rutgers from CUSA and Nebraska from XII.
SEC grabs Texas A&M and Missouri from XII.
ACC grabs Boston College and West Virginia from CUSA.

XII (now to 9 for football, 8 non-football) goes back to 12/11 - grabs TCU, Louisville, and Cincinnati from CUSA.
CUSA (now to 6) goes back to 12 - grabs Tulsa and SMU from MT WEST and Navy (football-only), UAB, East Carolina, and Central Florida from somewhere.
MT WEST (now to 10) goes back to 12 - grabs Fresno St and Nevada from somewhere.
MAC sits at same 12 as today.
New conference forms - AAC - with 12 schools.
SUN BELT organizes with 12 football programs and 14 schools in total.

_____________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________

Final outcome:

PAC
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford
South: USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado

XII
North: BYU*, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Louisville, Cincinnati
South: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor
*BYU - football only; other sports in WCC

B1G
West: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue
East: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Rutgers

SEC
West: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
East: Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

ACC
Atlantic: Florida St, Clemson, North Carolina St, Wake Forest, Maryland, West Virginia, Boston College
Coastal: Miami (FL), Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Penn St
- Notre Dame as non-football member -

CUSA
West: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Navy*
East: Southern Miss, UAB, Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina, Temple
*Navy - football only; other sports in PATRIOT

MT WEST
West: Hawaii, San Diego St, Fresno St, UNLV, Nevada, Boise St
East: Wyoming, Colorado St, Air Force, New Mexico, UTEP, Rice

AAC
West: UTSA, North Texas, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas St, Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky
East: Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Charlotte, Old Dominion, Marshall, Connecticut*
*Connecticut - football only; other sports in BIG EAST

SUN BELT
West: San Jose St*, Utah St*, New Mexico St, Texas St, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe
East: South Alabama, Troy, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, Appalachian St
- Little Rock and UT Arlington as non-football members -
*San Jose St - football only; other sports in BIG WEST
*Utah St - football only; other sports in SUMMIT

MAC
West: Northern Illinois, Ball St, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Toledo
East: Bowling Green St, Miami (OH), Ohio, Akron, Kent St, Buffalo

Independents: Notre Dame*, Army*, Massachusetts*, Liberty*
*Notre Dame - football only; other sports in ACC
*Army - football only; other sports in PATRIOT
*Massachusetts - football only; other sports in A-10
*Liberty - football only; others sports in A-SUN
03-24-2020 10:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #695
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
The more I think about Penn St joining the ACC in the early 90s with Florida St the more I think that things would be a little different than previously proposed.

ACC goes to 10 circa 1991-1993

The Big Ten is going to stay put at 10 at this time. If you can’t agree on adding Penn St and you can’t get ND why add anyone?

Big East football is still going to form with the exact same line up and I think the evolution of the Big East is identical to reality: Rutgers, WVU and VT eventually get full membership; Temple does not.

Fast forward to the events leading up to the 2004 season. If they ACC is looking to grow by 2 to add a CCG then their two are Miami and VT.

This puts the Big East at 6 for football: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, and Temple (with Temple scheduled to be dumped at the end of the ‘04 season to be replaced by full member UConn).

Again, I don’t see the Big Ten looking to act at this juncture either.

I think the raid on C-USA by the Big East to replace what was lost goes on as well but someone is going to get left in C-USA: Cincy or Louisville, probably Cincy.

In turn, either Marshall is left in the MAC or one of UTEP/Tulsa/Rice remains in the WAC.

I don’t see the Big Ten making any expansion rumblings until 2010, like in real life. They need two and can either look East to the Big East (Pitt, Cuse, or Rutgers) or west to the Big 12.

Conventional wisdom is they modestly add 2 and call it a day. They could also, in the spirit of the failed PAC 16, make a play for a half dozen schools from the Big 12, either as a counter offer to the PAC 10’s or to pull in some old Big 8 schools left behind.

If it’s just 2 and they go West: Missouri and Nebraska
If it’s just 2 and they go East: Pitt and Syracuse

Assuming PAC 16 fails and they only take Colorado and the Big Ten expands East you probably get TCU in the 12 member Big 12.

The Big East adds Cincinnati and UCF to replace Pitt and Syracuse.

The following year, when TAMU and Texas came to blows I see a variety of scenarios happening:

the Big Ten and SEC both going after Big 12 schools, reducing them down to 8
Maybe the Pac 12 makes another go at central time zone expansion.

Ultimately, a Penn St move to the ACC in the early 90’s, assuming everyone in the ACC is happy and paid well, doesn’t have a huge impact on the overall landscape. It’s 2010 and the potential demolition of the Big 12 where the scenarios start getting bizarre.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2020 01:30 PM by Fighting Muskie.)
03-25-2020 01:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #696
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
I want to throw out a scenario in 2010; this was the summer that the PAC 16 plan was being mulled over and the Big Ten was looking to grow to an unspecified number of members.

How would things played out differently had the Big Ten announced that they were adding more than just Nebraska? what if they were taking 3 Big 12 North schools instead of 1? let’s say Missouri and Kansas too. If you consider that Colorado was going to the PAC 10 regardless of what Texas, TAMU, or Oklahoma chose to do then the Big 12 would have been reduced to 8 at that point:

Iowa St
Kansas St
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Texas
TAMU
TTU
Baylor

Would be have been more inclined to see the PAC 16 become a reality? Does TAMU still make a push for the SEC? (if so do others go with them?)
03-27-2020 08:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #697
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Let me throw out a few possible outcomes:

Scenario 1: PAC 16 still happens as originally planned; K St, Iowa St, and Baylor are left to join the BE or MWC

Scenario 2: TAMU insists on the SEC; Texas, TTU, and Oklahoma accompany them; PAC 10 still settles on Utah; Big 10 has to focus expansion plans elsewhere if they choose to go beyond 14; Baylor, Iowa St, K St, and Okla St are left to rebuild the Big 12 or join another conference

Scenario 3: TAMU insists on the SEC; the Big Ten lures Oklahoma in; Texas goes along with TAMU; the Big Ten rounds out at 16 with Iowa St; TTU, Baylor, Okla St, and K St are left behind

3A: Baylor and TTU get to tag along in a 16 member SEC
3B: Texas goes Indy; TTU goes to the SEC.
03-27-2020 09:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,783
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 95
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #698
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-27-2020 08:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I want to throw out a scenario in 2010; this was the summer that the PAC 16 plan was being mulled over and the Big Ten was looking to grow to an unspecified number of members.

How would things played out differently had the Big Ten announced that they were adding more than just Nebraska? what if they were taking 3 Big 12 North schools instead of 1? let’s say Missouri and Kansas too. If you consider that Colorado was going to the PAC 10 regardless of what Texas, TAMU, or Oklahoma chose to do then the Big 12 would have been reduced to 8 at that point:

Iowa St
Kansas St
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Texas
TAMU
TTU
Baylor

Would be have been more inclined to see the PAC 16 become a reality? Does TAMU still make a push for the SEC? (if so do others go with them?)

I think Texas A&M still heads to the SEC. I don't see any of the other 7 going by way of disinterest from either the SEC or the school itself. I think we see Florida St, who was in a similar psychological place with the ACC as Maryland was - if I remember correctly, jump ship. There's no room on the B1G boat for Maryland yet.

The PAC is at 12 after adding Utah and Colorado. The B1G is at 14 after adding Nebraska, Kansas, and Missouri. The SEC is at 14 after adding Texas A&M and Florida St. The ACC is at 14 after losing Florida St but adding Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and Rutgers. The XII (now at 7) does expand to 10 with TCU, Louisville, and West Virginia.

PAC
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford
South: USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado

XII
Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville, West Virginia

SEC
West: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
East: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, Florida St, South Carolina

B1G
West: Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern
East: Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St

ACC
Atlantic: North Carolina St, Wake Forest, Maryland, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College
Coastal: Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Virginia Tech
03-27-2020 11:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,224
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 111
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #699
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Not a bad scenario. If none of the 7 remaining Big 12 members break ranks then Florida St would be a logical grab and rumor has it they were antsy at the time.

I have a question though about the ACC: do you think Rutgers is a lock for #14 or do they go for someone with better football and/or basketball?

I also think the divisions might be a tad different:

North: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, VT, M’land, Miami
South: UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, Clemson, GT

no more protected crossovers except the VA schools
03-27-2020 12:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,783
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 95
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #700
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(03-27-2020 12:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Not a bad scenario. If none of the 7 remaining Big 12 members break ranks then Florida St would be a logical grab and rumor has it they were antsy at the time.

I have a question though about the ACC: do you think Rutgers is a lock for #14 or do they go for someone with better football and/or basketball?

I also think the divisions might be a tad different:

North: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, VT, M’land, Miami
South: UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, Clemson, GT

no more protected crossovers except the VA schools

At the time, Rutgers was clearly held at high value by the B1G. I assume they were valued similarly to the ACC. Whether or not the ACC members would've wanted to add them is beyond me. Also, I like your divisional alignment better: North - old Big East + unhappy Maryland & South - original ACC + long-time member Georgia Tech
03-27-2020 01:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.