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Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
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esayem Offline
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Post: #441
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-07-2019 08:18 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(02-06-2019 07:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-06-2019 02:53 PM)orangefan Wrote:  
(12-27-2018 05:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I found it a little curious that the Big East took on USF as a full member in 2005. They could have doubled down in Florida and taken both USF and UCF as football affiliates but I suppose the realignment was designed to create 2 groups of 8 that could fulfill the NCAA requirements for an autobid after 5 years.

Providence
St John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Georgetown
Notre Dame

UConn
Pitt
Syracuse
Rutgers
WVU
Cincinnati
Louisville

UCF (FB only)
USF (FB only)

13 for Olympics, 9 for football (and an 8 game conference schedule instead of that awkward 7).

If they ever decided to upgrade the U_Fs to full membership DePaul and Marquette are still there on the basketball side.

NCAA rules required, and still require, that an FBS conference have eight members that play both football and basketball in the conference in order to qualify for whatever benefits come with that status. It was the implementation of that requirement around 2000 that prompted the Big East to invite UConn as a football member in place of football only Temple.

USF was added after BC joined the ACC as its twelfth member in the fall of 2003. The Big East football members clearly wanted a school in Florida for recruiting purposes.

USF needed to be a full member. However, there was no reason the Big East couldn't have invited a 9th member of the football league that was football only. My guess is that they didn't want to "feed another mouth" with TV and BCS money that may have been fixed.

With respect to Depaul and Marquette, the basketball schools wanted two more non-football members to ensure continuity if and when the conference split. Taking them was a quid pro quo for their willingness to expand again for football. The "prenup" agreement reached at that time between the football and basketball schools was invoked when the C7 split in 2013.

UConn started the process of studying 1-A as early as 1990 when the Big East football conference was set in motion. They had an open invite from the get-go.

Interestingly enough, UMass had an offer from Robert Kraft to use the Pats stadium to move-up to 1-A back in the fall of 1994! Imagine if UMass upgraded back then when they started seriously studying the move.

I believe that the invite was part of the compromise related to the 1995 expansion that added Rutgers and West Virginia.

Title of an article from the Providence Journal, November 17th 1990:

“UConn Mulling Big East Football”
02-07-2019 08:38 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #442
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
The talk of an eastern JoePa conference starting in the mid-70’s is ridiculous. Rutgers was playing Ivy League teams and Colgate, there was no unification yet. That’s why the actual talk didn’t start until the 80’s.

Had Villanova chosen to keep a 1-A team, things may have been different. Let’s go further back, what if former NYC powerhouse Fordham never hung up their leather helmets!?!
02-07-2019 08:47 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #443
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-07-2019 08:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  The talk of an eastern JoePa conference starting in the mid-70’s is ridiculous. Rutgers was playing Ivy League teams and Colgate, there was no unification yet. That’s why the actual talk didn’t start until the 80’s.

Had Villanova chosen to keep a 1-A team, things may have been different. Let’s go further back, what if former NYC powerhouse Fordham never hung up their leather helmets!?!

I agree on Rutgers. Even in 1975, they were playing an Ivy League type schedule. The Division I-A/I-AA split caused them to have to commit more seriously or drop to I-AA. By 1980, with a serious commitment to upgrading athletics with help from alumnus Sonny Werblin (former owner of the Jets), access to the new Giants Stadium for big games, and success under coach Frank Burns, they had reached a level where Penn State had interest in them for their proposed conference. Temple made a similar commitment with coach Wayne Hardin and a move to Veterans Stadium.

Nova had a serious facilities issue. There was no way to expand their stadium to qualify for I-A and apparently had no interest in moving their games to Philadelphia.
02-07-2019 01:08 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #444
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-07-2019 08:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-07-2019 08:18 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I believe that the invite was part of the compromise related to the 1995 expansion that added Rutgers and West Virginia.

Title of an article from the Providence Journal, November 17th 1990:

“UConn Mulling Big East Football”

I have no doubt that they considered it at the time. However, UConn negotiated for the right to join for football in the expansion discussion in 1994-1995.

https://cuse.com/sports/2001/8/8/history2.aspx

Quote:After two meetings a decision was reached in March, 1994, ironically at the Lubin House in New York City, the day before BIG EAST men's basketball tournament was to begin. St. Johns had represented a very strong anti-expansion position throughout our discussions. However, once the president became involved, and with the input of then head men's basketball coach Lou Carnesecca, the long-term implications were understood, and we had our seventh vote. Rutgers and West Virginia were added as our 11th and 12th members. There were, however, some very bitter and lingering feelings both about the process and the result. There was one condition attached to the agreement and one understanding. The condition was that should the University of Connecticut and/or Villanova move their football programs to Division IA within a given period of time, either or both would be invited to participate in The BIG EAST Football Conference as a full members. This is happening at UConn. The understanding was that the six Division IA member schools would not block acceptance of a 13th member which might have a Division IA football program but not be included in The BIG EAST Football Conference; i.e., Notre Dame. In June, 1994 Notre Dame officially became the 13th member in all sports except football.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2019 01:15 PM by orangefan.)
02-07-2019 01:14 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #445
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-06-2019 01:50 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  In this timeline, Penn State founded an all-sports (including football) Eastern Athletic Conference in the mid-'70s along with BC, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, and WV. The league would eventually add VT, FSU, Miami, and ND before gobbling up most of the ACC in the 2010s. Thus we arrive at a semi-realistic "dream"(?) east coast mega-conference:

Eastern Athletic Conference
East: Boston College, Maryland, Miami-FL, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North: Syracuse, Temple, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia
South: NC State, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Clemson

Protected crossovers:

East/North/South
Boston College/Syracuse/NC State
Maryland/Temple/Duke
Miami-FL/Penn State/Florida State
Notre Dame/Pittsburgh/Georgia Tech
Virginia/Rutgers/North Carolina
Virginia Tech/West Virginia/Clemson

Football schedule is 9 games: 5 division mates + 1 protected crossover and 1 rotating crossover in each of the other 2 divisions.

Basketball schedule is 20 games. Each team plays 3 protected opponents twice (home and away) and the other 14 opponents once. Here are the protected opponents:

Code:
BOSTON COLLEGE  Syracuse        Notre Dame      Miami-FL        
CLEMSON         NC State        Georgia Tech    Florida State  
DUKE            North Carolina  NC State        Georgia Tech    
FLORIDA STATE   Georgia Tech    Miami-FL        Clemson        
GEORGIA TECH    Florida State   Clemson         Duke            
MARYLAND        Rutgers         Virginia Tech   Virginia        
MIAMI-FL        Notre Dame      Florida State   Boston College  
NC STATE        Clemson         Duke            North Carolina  
NORTH CAROLINA  Duke            Virginia        NC State        
NOTRE DAME      Miami-FL        Boston College  Pittsburgh      
PENN STATE      Temple          Pittsburgh      Syracuse        
PITTSBURGH      West Virginia   Penn State      Notre Dame      
RUTGERS         Maryland        Syracuse        Temple          
SYRACUSE        Boston College  Rutgers         Penn State      
TEMPLE          Penn State      West Virginia   Rutgers        
VIRGINIA        Virginia Tech   North Carolina  Maryland        
VIRGINIA TECH   Virginia        Maryland        West Virginia  
WEST VIRGINIA   Pittsburgh      Temple          Virginia Tech

Alternate version: Temple football is booted out due to lack of investment in facilities, and Notre Dame never joins for football. Here are two possibilities for the football schedule:

Pod/Division System

Code:
POD 1:  Boston College  Miami-FL        Syracuse        Virginia Tech  
POD 2:  Duke            Georgia Tech    Pittsburgh      West Virginia  
POD 3:  NC State        Clemson         Rutgers         Maryland        
POD 4:  North Carolina  Florida State   Penn State      Virginia

Each team has a protected crossover in each of the other pods (teams listed in same order as protected crossovers; e.g., Miami, GT, Clemson, and FSU all play each other every year). The pods rotate between two 8-team divisions (Atlantic and Coastal, in honor of the departed ACC) in a 3-year cycle. Conference schedule is 9 games: 3 pod mates + 4 teams in the other pod in the same division + the 2 protected crossovers in the other division.

Divisionless System

Code:
BOSTON COLLEGE  Miami-FL        Rutgers         Syracuse        
CLEMSON         NC State        Georgia Tech    Florida State  
DUKE            North Carolina  NC State        Georgia Tech    
FLORIDA STATE   Georgia Tech    Miami-FL        Clemson        
GEORGIA TECH    Florida State   Clemson         Duke            
MARYLAND        West Virginia   Pittsburgh      Virginia        
MIAMI-FL        Boston College  Florida State   Virginia Tech  
NC STATE        Clemson         Duke            North Carolina  
NORTH CAROLINA  Duke            Virginia        NC State        
PENN STATE      Pittsburgh      Syracuse        Rutgers        
PITTSBURGH      Penn State      Maryland        West Virginia  
RUTGERS         Syracuse        Boston College  Penn State      
SYRACUSE        Rutgers         Penn State      Boston College  
VIRGINIA        Virginia Tech   North Carolina  Maryland        
VIRGINIA TECH   Virginia        West Virginia   Miami-FL        
WEST VIRGINIA   Maryland        Virginia Tech   Pittsburgh

Conference schedule is 9 games. Each team plays its 3 protected opponents (listed above) every year and biennially alternates between half of the other 12 opponents.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2019 08:52 AM by Nerdlinger.)
02-07-2019 04:53 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #446
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-07-2019 04:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 08:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here's another alternative scenario for you all to ponder: Michigan makes a terrible mistake

As some of you might know, at the beginning of the 20th century Michigan had a decade long hiatus from Big Ten play after a disagreement over conference rules and played as an independent. But what if they would have tried to form "the Western Ivy League":

Michigan
Carnegie-Melon
Case
Western Reserve
Miami
Chicago
Northwestern
Washington U. (St L)

The Big Ten would be down to just 6: Minn, Wisc, Iowa, Ill, Purdue, Ind

They could rebuild one of two ways:

Option A: Ohio St, Mich St, ND, Pitt

Option B: Iowa St, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska

Either way, I'm sure that by the 40s, if not sooner, Michigan realizes that their academic powerhouse league can't cut it in sports and comes back, but without Northwestern and Chicago.

Option B would have the interesting consequence that the Oklahoma schools likely find permanent homes in the SWC, stabilizing that conference; Kansas St is left out; Colorado sticks with Mountain schools until at least the 2nd half of the century

Option A would create a real juggernaut, especially if Penn St accompanied Mich as the 12th member. Recall that Mich was a major obstacle for ND joining the B10


Chicago dropped sports in the 1940s.
I'm well aware of that. I'm talking about a conference forming in the very early 1900s when Chicago was still big time, and for that matter so was Washington (ST L).
02-07-2019 05:42 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #447
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-07-2019 08:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  The talk of an eastern JoePa conference starting in the mid-70’s is ridiculous. Rutgers was playing Ivy League teams and Colgate, there was no unification yet. That’s why the actual talk didn’t start until the 80’s.

Had Villanova chosen to keep a 1-A team, things may have been different. Let’s go further back, what if former NYC powerhouse Fordham never hung up their leather helmets!?!

Very late 80s early 90s is more probable. If BC, Cuse, Pitt, and Penn St could have collectively formed a core the rest could have been built around them:

FB: WVU, Rutgers, Temple
BB: St John's, Georgetown, UConn/Villanova

VT and Miami come along later.

Rather than the ACC raiding the Big East I think you get a situation in the mid 00s more akin to the Big 12 formation. The best of both leagues agree to merge, leaving out the rest.
02-07-2019 05:50 PM
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MKPitt Offline
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Post: #448
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-06-2019 01:50 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  In this timeline, Penn State founded an all-sports (including football) Eastern Athletic Conference in the mid-'70s along with BC, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, and WV. The league would eventually add VT, FSU, Miami, and ND before gobbling up most of the ACC in the 2010s. Thus we arrive at a semi-realistic "dream"(?) east coast mega-conference:

Eastern Athletic Conference
East: Boston College, Maryland, Miami-FL, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North: Syracuse, Temple, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia
South: Duke, NC State, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Clemson

Protected crossovers:

East/North/South
Boston College/Syracuse/Duke
Maryland/Temple/NC State
Miami-FL/Penn State/Florida State
Notre Dame/Pittsburgh/Georgia Tech
Virginia/Rutgers/North Carolina
Virginia Tech/West Virginia/Clemson

Football schedule is 9 games: 5 division mates + 1 protected crossover and 1 rotating crossover in each of the other 2 divisions.

Basketball schedule is 20 games. Each team plays 3 protected opponents twice (home and away) and the other 14 opponents once. Here are the protected opponents:

Code:
BOSTON COLLEGE  Syracuse        Notre Dame      Miami-FL        
CLEMSON         NC State        Georgia Tech    Florida State  
DUKE            North Carolina  NC State        Georgia Tech    
FLORIDA STATE   Georgia Tech    Miami-FL        Clemson        
GEORGIA TECH    Florida State   Clemson         Duke            
MARYLAND        Rutgers         Virginia Tech   Virginia        
MIAMI-FL        Notre Dame      Florida State   Boston College  
NC STATE        Clemson         Duke            North Carolina  
NORTH CAROLINA  Duke            Virginia        NC State        
NOTRE DAME      Miami-FL        Boston College  Pittsburgh      
PENN STATE      Temple          Pittsburgh      Syracuse        
PITTSBURGH      West Virginia   Penn State      Notre Dame      
RUTGERS         Maryland        Syracuse        Temple          
SYRACUSE        Boston College  Rutgers         Penn State      
TEMPLE          Penn State      West Virginia   Rutgers        
VIRGINIA        Virginia Tech   North Carolina  Maryland        
VIRGINIA TECH   Virginia        Maryland        West Virginia  
WEST VIRGINIA   Pittsburgh      Temple          Virginia Tech

This would be my dream conference for Pitt. Syracuse, Temple, Penn State, Rutgers, West Virginia, Notre Dame and Georgia Tech as annual conference opponents is perfect. Too bad this can’t happen.
02-07-2019 06:05 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #449
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Schools before 1940 when the 1st split in 1940 when NAIA formed. Plus others after 1940. Some FBS schools lost status in the 1940s until they formed D1 conferences. Mostly the MAC schools.

Colorado Mines
Montana State
Western Colorado (renamed after Western State) stayed D1 after 1940.
Colorado College
UC-Davis was known by another name then.
Northern Colorado
College of Idaho
UNR
Regis (Denver)
Carroll College, Montana
U. of San Francisco
South Dakota
Idaho State
Occidental
US Marines
Denver
U. of Portland
Montana
Northern Arizona
Fort Douglas
Pepperdine
Pacific Fleet
Fort Hood
San Diego NAS
CSU-Los Angeles
Wichita State
San Jose State
Fresno State
San Diego State
Cal. Poly
West Texas A&M
George Washington
Western Michigan
Pacific
Long Beach State
Weber State
Bowling Green
Southern Mississippi
Houston
Cincinnati
Adelphi University
UAB
Alliance College dropped football 1950
Aquinas College
Arnold College merged into Bridgeport U.
Arkansas College now Lyon dropped to NAIA in 1940.
Atlantic Christian College now known as Barton College
Bishop College
Blackburn College
Boston State College merged into UMass.-Boston
Boston University
Bradley University
Brandeis University
Brooklyn College played mostly FBS schools and FCS schools in the northeast. One of the most recent schools that dropped from D1 since 1970s.
California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
University of California, Riverside
Chico State
Fullerton State
Hayward State now East Bay State
CalTech
Cameron dropped to NAIA 1940
Canisius College
Canterbury College closed was in the same conference as Indiana, Purdue, Indiana State and others in the old days before Big 10 formed.
Carlisle Indian School closed during the 1st War.
Cedarville College now University looking to restarting football again.
Centenary College of Louisiana
Champlain College
City College of New York
Clarkson College in Nebraska
College of Emporia closed was one of the original all Kansas conference with Kansas, Kansas State and schools now in D2 and NAIA.
College of the Ozarks joined NAIA in 1940
University of Corpus Christi now Texas A&M @ Corpus Christie
Creighton University dropped football 1942
Daniel Baker College
Davis & Elkins College
DePaul University
University of Detroit now Detroit Mercy
Detroit Institute of Technology
District of Columbia Teachers' College now University of District Columbia
Drexel University
Eastern Montana College now Montana State-Billings
Erskine College
University of Evansville
Fairfield University
Federal City College
Fisk University
Florida Normal and Industrial Memorial College now NAIA's Florida Memorial
Georgia Southwestern College now University
Gonzaga University dropped football 1941
Haskell Indian Nations University
Haverford College
High Point College
Hofstra
Holy Trinity College
Humboldt State University
Huntington College Indiana
University of Illinois at Chicago
Iona College
Jonesboro College closed
Knoxville College
La Salle University
Lewis College of Science and Technology now Lewis University
Louisville Municipal College
Lowell Textile Institute
Loyola University Chicago
Loyola University of Los Angeles (now Loyola Marymount University)
Malone University
Manhattan College
Marquette University
University of Maryland Eastern Shore
Massachusetts-Boston
Milligan College
Milton College
Mississippi Industrial
Mount Ida College
Mt. St. Mary's (MD)
Nebraska Central
New Bedford Textile School
New York Tech
New York U.
Niagara (NY)
Northeastern University
Northeastern Illinois
Northern Idaho College of Education now Lewis and Clark State
Oklahoma City University
Oregon Tech
Oswego State
Panzer College
Paul Quinn
Plattsburgh State University
Ramapo College
Rider College
Rio Grande College
Rochester Institute of Technology
Rollins College
Rust College
St. Bonaventure University
St. John's University (New York, NY)
Saint Joseph's College Indiana
Saint Louis University
Saint Martin's College now Saint Martin's U.
Saint Mary of the Plains College
Saint Mary's University of Minnesota
Saint Mary's College of California
Saint Michael's College now Santa Fe University of Art and Design closed
Saint Micheal's College (VT)
Saint Paul's College closed
Saint Peter's University
Saint Vincent
Salem University
Huston-Tillotson University
San Francisco State
Santa Clara University
Scranton University
Seton Hall University
Siena College
Shurtleff College
Sonoma State University
South Carolina Trade School
University of South Dakota at Springfield
Southern California College now Vanguard
Southern Idaho College
Southwestern University TX
College of Steubenville
Swarthmore College
University of Tampa
University of Texas at Arlington
Texas College
Tougaloo College
Union University TN
University of California at San Diego
University of California at Santa Barbara
U.S. International University
Upsala College
University of Vermont
Washington College MD
West Virginia University Tech
Westminster College
Whitman College
Wiley College
William Carey College
University of Wisconsin Extension
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
University of Wisconsin-Superior
Xavier University
Quantico Marine Corps Base
Marion Military Institute
Mountain Home College
Potomac State College
Athens State College
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
North Alabama
Snead State CC Parsons
St. Bernard Saints
Troy
West Alabama
St. Mary's TX.
Sul Ross State
Texas A&M-Kingsville
Arkansas State went to NAIA in 1940
Arkansas Tech
UA-Monticello was ranked in one AP Top 20 poll before 1940.
UCA
Henderson State
Hendrix
Ouachita Baptist
Southern Arkansas Mule Riders
Little Rock
Aurora
Concordia Chicago
Lakeland
Lewis
Morton JuCo
Northwestern (WI)
St. Procopius
Wartburg
Wisconsin Tech
Grambling State
Jarvis State
Mary Allen
Drake
Grinnell
Washington, Mo.
Hardin-Simmons
Dayton
Denison
Depauw
Ohio Wesleyan
Wabash
Wittenberg
Bakersfield CC.
Cal. Poly
CSM
Modesto JC
Sacramento CC
Santa Rosa JC
Benedictine Kansas
Emporia State
Fort Hayes State
Pittsburg State
SW Kansas
Washburn
American
Bridgewater
Hampden-Sydney
Johns Hopkins
Lynchburg
Randolph-Macon
St. John's MD
Eastern Washington
Northern Idaho
Spokane College
Spokane U.
Whitworth
Augustana, SD
Dakota Wesleyan
Huran
Sioux Falls
Yankton
Birmingham Southern
Centre
Chattanooga
Loyola new Orleans
Mercer
Rhodes
Samford
Spring Hill
West Chester
Elizabeth City State
Fayetteville State
Friendship
Kittrell
Livingstone
Norfolk State
Virginia-Lynchburg
Winston-Salem
Dickinson
Drexel
Franklin & Marshall
Gettysburg
Muhlenburg
Ursinus
Central Washington
Pacific Lutheran
Western Washington
Abilene Christian
Midwestern State
Trinity TX
Louisiana College
Buena Vista
dubuque
Ellsworth
Lenox
St. Ambrose
Upper Iowa
Augustana, Illinois
Illinois College
Illinois Wesleyan
Knox
Millikin
Monmouth, Ill.
North Central
Wheaton
Ball State
Butler
Central Normal School, IN. closed
Earlham
Evansville
Franklin
Hanover
Indiana State
Indianapolis
Manchester
Oakland City
Rose hulman
Valparaiso
Colorado Mesa
Dixie State
Ricks U.
Snow
S. Utah
Carthage
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Elmhurst
Eureka
Hedding
Lake Forrest
Lincoln, IL.
Lombard
McKendree
Mount Morris
Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
ST. VIator
Western Illinois
William & Vashti
Coe
Cornell Iowa
Des Moines U.
Highland Park
Iowa Wesleyan
Leander Clark
Loras
Parsons
Simpson
William Penn.

Part 2 later.

Many FBS schools from AAC, C-USA, MAC, MWC, and SBC conference were at the highest levels, and some went all the way down to NAIA. Some schools like Georgetown KY, Union KY, Cumberland, Cumberlands, Southern Oregon, College of Idaho etc are still in NAIA.
02-13-2019 08:43 AM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #450
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-13-2019 08:43 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  ...
Part 2 later.
...

Please, no.
02-13-2019 08:57 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #451
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-13-2019 08:57 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(02-13-2019 08:43 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  ...
Part 2 later.
...

Please, no.


Actually, the history of college sports showed which schools could be part of the alternative history of realignment. Where would schools like Central Oklahoma today if they stay with the big boys in 1940? They went to NAIA just like Arkansas State did. It would give us some other options to choose from, and still on topic.
02-13-2019 09:58 AM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #452
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-07-2019 08:18 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(02-06-2019 07:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  UConn started the process of studying 1-A as early as 1990 when the Big East football conference was set in motion. They had an open invite from the get-go.

Interestingly enough, UMass had an offer from Robert Kraft to use the Pats stadium to move-up to 1-A back in the fall of 1994! Imagine if UMass upgraded back then when they started seriously studying the move.

I believe that the invite was part of the compromise related to the 1995 expansion that added Rutgers and West Virginia.

That would have been so cool for UMass to be in the Big East with UConn (later), BC, Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, WVU, and VT.
02-13-2019 10:06 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #453
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-13-2019 10:06 AM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-07-2019 08:18 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(02-06-2019 07:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  UConn started the process of studying 1-A as early as 1990 when the Big East football conference was set in motion. They had an open invite from the get-go.

Interestingly enough, UMass had an offer from Robert Kraft to use the Pats stadium to move-up to 1-A back in the fall of 1994! Imagine if UMass upgraded back then when they started seriously studying the move.

I believe that the invite was part of the compromise related to the 1995 expansion that added Rutgers and West Virginia.

That would have been so cool for UMass to be in the Big East with UConn (later), BC, Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, WVU, and VT.

Researching old newspaper articles on 1-AA schools moving up, no school comes up more than UMass. It took 20 years to get it done! Seems there was always a spat between the athletic and academic side of the university.

On a side note, Florida A&M was actually in a transitional period in the early 2000’s before FAU and FIU, but something happened and they dropped back down. Can’t remember exactly.

Holy Cross had some boosters and athletic dept people talking about building an Orange Bowl-level program in 1980, and they hired an amazing young coach in Rick Carter who won a title at Dayton. Then the president cut scholarships, HC joined the Ivy-wannabe Patriot League, and the AD wouldn’t let Carter out of his contract to take the NC State job. He was even talked about as a replacement for Faust at ND; the guy was that well respected. Unfortunately, he suffered from depression and committed suicide in ‘86. Tragic. Holy Cross went on to dominant the non-scholarship level in the late 80’s and had a back to back Heisman contender who played both sides of the ball. There’s a 30 for 30 called the Throwback that talks about him.
02-13-2019 11:01 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #454
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
In 1993, there was talk of 1-AA drastically reducing football scholarships. This caused eight schools to meet and discuss moving to 1-A and forming a conference. The schools were: Jackson State, Florida A&M, Grambling, Southern, Tennessee State, SC State, NC A&T, and Howard. They all accepted the cut from 65 to 63, but if scholarships were cut to 55 or 45, they would have moved-up. The first four mentioned qualified for 1-A in regards to sports offered and attendance at the time.
02-13-2019 11:48 AM
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e-parade Offline
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Post: #455
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-13-2019 11:01 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-13-2019 10:06 AM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-07-2019 08:18 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(02-06-2019 07:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  UConn started the process of studying 1-A as early as 1990 when the Big East football conference was set in motion. They had an open invite from the get-go.

Interestingly enough, UMass had an offer from Robert Kraft to use the Pats stadium to move-up to 1-A back in the fall of 1994! Imagine if UMass upgraded back then when they started seriously studying the move.

I believe that the invite was part of the compromise related to the 1995 expansion that added Rutgers and West Virginia.

That would have been so cool for UMass to be in the Big East with UConn (later), BC, Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, WVU, and VT.

Researching old newspaper articles on 1-AA schools moving up, no school comes up more than UMass. It took 20 years to get it done! Seems there was always a spat between the athletic and academic side of the university.

Was isn't the right word there. Some people on the academic side are still against the move up.

Should have done it in the 90s at the height of the basketball history.
02-13-2019 03:07 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #456
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Ohio Athletic Conference D3 formed in 1902.
Founding members:
Case Tech 1902-1948
Kenyon 1902-1984
Oberlin 1902-1984
Ohio State 1902-1912
Ohio Wesleyan 1902-1928
Western Reserve 1902-1932

Other members:
Denison 1907-1928 1933-1984
Heidelberg 1907-Present
Wooster 1907-1984
Wittenberg 1909-1928 1934-1929
Cincinnati 1910-1924
Ohio U. 1910-1928
Miami Ohio 1911-1928
Mount Union 1914-Present
Akron 1915-1936 1948-1966
Baldwin Wallace 1915-1919 1923-1948 1961-Present
Ohio Northern 1916-1947 1973-present
Hiram 1920-1935 1951-1971 1989-1999
Otterbein 1921-present
Xavier 1921-1936
Muskingum 1922-Present
Marietta 1926-present
Capital 1927-present
Ashland 1931-1948
John Carroll 1932-1949 1989-present
Kent State 1932-1951
Toledo 1932-1949
Bowling Green 1933-1942

Where would some of these Ohio schools be today that are not D1?
02-14-2019 07:19 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #457
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
David--exactly where they are now. The Ohio Conference was never built to be big time. Most of the schools were tiny then and tiny now.

In the 80s they had a schism and the elite schools went to go play in a newer nicer sandbox that didn't have any band aids or hypodermic needles in it.
02-14-2019 10:25 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #458
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-14-2019 10:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  David--exactly where they are now. The Ohio Conference was never built to be big time. Most of the schools were tiny then and tiny now.

In the 80s they had a schism and the elite schools went to go play in a newer nicer sandbox that didn't have any band aids or hypodermic needles in it.


Mount Union might be able to tear it up in the Pioneer League. Mount Union, Case Western and Ashland might fit the FCS ranks.
02-15-2019 03:02 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #459
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
(02-06-2019 01:50 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  In this timeline, Penn State founded an all-sports (including football) Eastern Athletic Conference in the mid-'70s along with BC, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, and WV. The league would eventually add VT, FSU, Miami, and ND before gobbling up most of the ACC in the 2010s. Thus we arrive at a semi-realistic "dream"(?) east coast mega-conference:

Eastern Athletic Conference
East: Boston College, Maryland, Miami-FL, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North: Syracuse, Temple, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia
South: NC State, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Clemson

Protected crossovers:

East/North/South
Boston College/Syracuse/NC State
Maryland/Temple/Duke
Miami-FL/Penn State/Florida State
Notre Dame/Pittsburgh/Georgia Tech
Virginia/Rutgers/North Carolina
Virginia Tech/West Virginia/Clemson

Football schedule is 9 games: 5 division mates + 1 protected crossover and 1 rotating crossover in each of the other 2 divisions.

Basketball schedule is 20 games. Each team plays 3 protected opponents twice (home and away) and the other 14 opponents once. Here are the protected opponents:

Code:
BOSTON COLLEGE  Syracuse        Notre Dame      Miami-FL        
CLEMSON         NC State        Georgia Tech    Florida State  
DUKE            North Carolina  NC State        Georgia Tech    
FLORIDA STATE   Georgia Tech    Miami-FL        Clemson        
GEORGIA TECH    Florida State   Clemson         Duke            
MARYLAND        Rutgers         Virginia Tech   Virginia        
MIAMI-FL        Notre Dame      Florida State   Boston College  
NC STATE        Clemson         Duke            North Carolina  
NORTH CAROLINA  Duke            Virginia        NC State        
NOTRE DAME      Miami-FL        Boston College  Pittsburgh      
PENN STATE      Temple          Pittsburgh      Syracuse        
PITTSBURGH      West Virginia   Penn State      Notre Dame      
RUTGERS         Maryland        Syracuse        Temple          
SYRACUSE        Boston College  Rutgers         Penn State      
TEMPLE          Penn State      West Virginia   Rutgers        
VIRGINIA        Virginia Tech   North Carolina  Maryland        
VIRGINIA TECH   Virginia        Maryland        West Virginia  
WEST VIRGINIA   Pittsburgh      Temple          Virginia Tech

Another alternate version, this time with Army and Navy as FB-onlies and no divisions for football. Every year, each team plays 4 protected opponents and 5 rotating opponents, permitting a full conference playthrough in just 3 years. The protected opponents:

Code:
ARMY            Duke            Navy            Rutgers         Syracuse        
BOSTON COLLEGE  Notre Dame      Miami-FL        Syracuse        Rutgers
CLEMSON         NC State        Florida State   Maryland        Georgia Tech    
DUKE            Army            Georgia Tech    NC State        North Carolina  
FLORIDA STATE   Georgia Tech    Clemson         North Carolina  Miami-FL        
GEORGIA TECH    Florida State   Duke            Virginia Tech   Clemson        
MARYLAND        Navy            Virginia        Clemson         Temple          
MIAMI-FL        Virginia Tech   Boston College  Notre Dame      Florida State  
NAVY            Maryland        Army            Virginia        Notre Dame      
NC STATE        Clemson         North Carolina  Duke            West Virginia  
NORTH CAROLINA  Virginia        NC State        Florida State   Duke            
NOTRE DAME      Boston College  Pittsburgh      Miami-FL        Navy            
PENN STATE      West Virginia   Syracuse        Temple          Pittsburgh      
PITTSBURGH      Temple          Notre Dame      West Virginia   Penn State      
RUTGERS         Syracuse        Temple          Army            Boston College  
SYRACUSE        Rutgers         Penn State      Boston College  Army            
TEMPLE          Pittsburgh      Rutgers         Penn State      Maryland        
VIRGINIA        North Carolina  Maryland        Navy            Virginia Tech  
VIRGINIA TECH   Miami-FL        West Virginia   Georgia Tech    Virginia        
WEST VIRGINIA   Penn State      Virginia Tech   Pittsburgh      NC State
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2019 08:34 AM by Nerdlinger.)
02-15-2019 11:14 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #460
RE: Alternate History and Future College Sports Realignment Scenarios
Association of Mid-Continent Universities Football FCS 1978-1984
Akron 1978-1979
Eastern Illinois 1978-1984
Northern Iowa 1978-1984
Northern Michigan 1978-1980
Western Illinois 1978-1984
Youngstown State 1978-1980
Missouri State 1981-1984

Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association 1894-1942 gave birth to Southern Conference and grandparent to ACC and SEC.
Alabama 1894-1917 1919-1921
Auburn 1894-1921
Georgia 1894-1916 1919-1921
Johns Hopkins 1894
UNC 1894 1901
Sewanee 1894-1900 1902-1924
Vanderbilt 1894-1924
Virginia 1894
Georgia Tech 1896-1900 1902-1913 1916-1921
Clemson 1896-1921
Cumberland 1896-1907
Kentucky 1896-1904 1911-1916 1919-1921
LSU 1896-1917 1919-1921
Mercer 1896-1937
Mississippi State 1896-1921
Nashville 1896-1900 1902-1908 closed
Rhodes 1896-1900 1902-1908
Texas 1896-1906
Tulane 1896-1906 1911-1917 1919-1921
Tennessee 1896-1916 1919-1921
Eastern Kentucky 1896-1897 1899-1900 1928-1942
Ole Miss. 1897-1921
Furman 1898-1900 1902-1904 1906-1910 1914-1929 1932-1935
Birmingham Southern 1901-1912 1922-1931
Duke 1903-1912
The Citadel 1909-1935
Samford 1909-1912 1914-1917 1919-1931 1933-1938
Central 1896-1897 1899-1900 merged with Centre in 1901.
Centre 1929-1941
Mississippi College 1910-1917 1919-1941
Florida 1914-1917 1919-1921
Chattanooga 1914-1916 1919-1932
Louisville 1914-1941
Georgetown, KY. 1915-1916 1919-1941
Transylvania 1915-1916 1919-1924 1926-1941
South Carolina 1915-1921
Wofford 1916-1942
Milsaps 1920-1938
Oglethorpe 1920-1925
Western Kentucky 1926-1942
Erskine 1923-1941
Newberry 1923-1942
Presbyterian 1923-1942
Louisiana College 1924-1941
Centenary 1925-1942
Kentucky Wesleyan 1925-1930
La. Tech 1925-1942
Loyola, New Orlenas 1925 1930-1937
Rollins 1925-1942
Florida Southern 1925-1930
La.-Lafayette 1925-1942
Stetson 1925-1931 1933-1940
Union, TN. 1925-1942
Spring Hill 1927-1931
NW LA. State 1928-1941
Southern Mississippi 1928-1941
Miami, Florida 1929-1942
Middle Tennessee State 1931-1942
Murray State 1931-1942
Tenn. Tech 1933-1942
Union, KY. 1933-1941
Morehead State 1934-1942
Memphis 1935-1942
Delta State 1936-1941
Emory & Henry 1936-1941
Tampa 1936-1942
Troy 1936-1942
Jacksonville State 1939-1940
02-16-2019 07:53 AM
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