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arkstfan Away
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Post: #21
2016 Revenue by School
WKYUG explained
USA Today is totally accurate when AState was shown having donations under $100k despite tax returns to the contrary.
USA Today report is BOGUS when AState is 68th in the country.
WKUYG has Uber hate for AState so whatever way makes AState look the worst is the correct reading. Never mind that AState pulled in about $10 million more in sponsorship and restricted purpose gifts (all same dude).
Never mind that USA Today no longer asks schools to report data in the categories and craft the report, they FOI a report schools are required to submit to the NCAA following NCAA established and required procedures. It is a REQUIREMENT of membership in other words dicking around is a violation.
No no no no it is all evil mind tricks.

Just another poor soul who thought a conference patch magically conferred superiority.
Learfield pays AState $1.6 million a year for marketing rights. UNT and La Tech $500,000 each. Why oh why? AState has no pro competition in state, only one P5 in state, no other G5's in state. Hell Riceland Foods was willing to fund a new bowl game just help AState. The owner of Centennial Bank couldn't get his board to buy our stadium naming rights because they had no banks in NE Arkansas so he bought the bank that got the naming rights. Learfield paid more because they know they can make more selling the Red Wolves than UNT and Tech combined.

But surely it's fake if you just hate AState a little harder. Poor WKU misses us even now.
07-08-2017 10:36 AM
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OsageJ Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 02:23 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Someone said 2016 was the last year of the Fox deal. I believe that's wrong...2016 is the first year of the two year deal CUSA signed. A deal without Fox

There's a reason you see large increases in revenue for a few SBC schools. Those schools are counting building funds as revenue.

Does anyone honestly think ARK St increased their revenue by 23 million in two years and 14 million in one year. With that Ark St had a increase of 300k in ticket sales and a 4 million drop in Contributions from 2015 to 2016

In 2013 coming off back to back 10 win seasons ARK ST listed Contributions at $403,388 which is closer to the previous 8 years other than 2012 84k. Then coming off a 7-6 season Contributions jumps to over 6 million while tickets sales decreased.

I was told by Chief many years ago...ARK ST does it the "ARK ST WAY" which is different than any other school in FBS

When you see a anomaly like the $18,922,066 in the "other" when that number was between 2.5 & 3 million the previous 8 years. It would set off bells, whistles, and red flags and You would be audited if this was a tax return.

No G5 school jumps 15 million unless it's a building fund.

It looks like at least a couple SBC schools treat building funds as revenue. GASO show a 9 million dollar increase in revenue. The only other year they had over a 2 million increase was their move up and that was 5 million. 4.5 million (half) came from a increase in school funds. If you look at their expenses you will see a 5.3 million one time increase in Facilities / Overhead. Again going by the previous 11 season that is a huge anomaly.

So like Ark St I bet GASO had some building going on during the 2016 season that they didn't the previous years. Either started or finished.

Most school I looked at does not use one time building funds as revenue. I know for a fact Western does not do this. At Western bond payments are listed yearly Facilities / Overhead. And one time donations like 5 million for naming rights (2007) to the football stadium will not show up as other, Contributions or Rights / Licensing. You will not see onetime donations directed at a project listed in Western revenue. Like the 2.5 million donated to put in new video boards in Diddle arena and Houchen's stadium. That money has to go into the general fund then a line item on that years budget. Under the "other" it was explained to me this revenue is mostly guarantees from football and basketball, coaches buyout, if any, concessions, parking.

If you look at Western you will see a 1.7 million increase in the OTHER revenue for 2014 over 2013. That was the year BP took the Louisville job and the buyout was 1.5 million.

I guess I could have stopped at if you have a anomaly and it can't be explained by Ticket Sales, Contributions. Rights / Licensing, or a huge pay day from guarantee games.....it's not revenue in the way most if not all of the rest of us define revenue

Little fella you should probably try to get people to come out and watch your games and let your superiors take care of their business. Shoo!
07-08-2017 10:37 AM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
keep in mind, while the debate over these numbers continue, that these figures are 2 years old. as we stand today, things have changed for each school from the 2015-2016 year. 07-coffee3
07-08-2017 11:04 AM
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glsjunior74 Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
I think that GSU owning our own building will change our revenue profile a bit.
07-08-2017 11:11 AM
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balanced_view Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 08:08 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  The numbers are interesting to look at but don't mean that much for G5 schools.

Each school / state likely report things differently. For Coastal, one example is our expenses are higher because our in-state and probably out of state tuition is higher than most conference schools. For the Louisiana schools, I think their expenses appear lower thanks to the generous state scholarship programs.

I'd rather see more apple to apple comparisons. How many players are on scholarship? What are the coach salaries per sport? What are the program specific expenses? How much in general AD expenses? What are the band / spirit expenses? What is the school spending on bond payments for athletic buildings?

how and what generous state scholarship programs, are helping the Louisiana schools athletic expenses appear lower?
07-08-2017 11:12 AM
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rokamortis Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 11:12 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 08:08 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  The numbers are interesting to look at but don't mean that much for G5 schools.

Each school / state likely report things differently. For Coastal, one example is our expenses are higher because our in-state and probably out of state tuition is higher than most conference schools. For the Louisiana schools, I think their expenses appear lower thanks to the generous state scholarship programs.

I'd rather see more apple to apple comparisons. How many players are on scholarship? What are the coach salaries per sport? What are the program specific expenses? How much in general AD expenses? What are the band / spirit expenses? What is the school spending on bond payments for athletic buildings?

how and what generous state scholarship programs, are helping the Louisiana schools athletic expenses appear lower?

https://www.osfa.la.gov/tops_mainlink.html
07-08-2017 11:30 AM
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WKUYG Away
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 10:36 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  WKYUG explained
USA Today is totally accurate when AState was shown having donations under $100k despite tax returns to the contrary.
USA Today report is BOGUS when AState is 68th in the country.
WKUYG has Uber hate for AState so whatever way makes AState look the worst is the correct reading. Never mind that AState pulled in about $10 million more in sponsorship and restricted purpose gifts (all same dude).
Never mind that USA Today no longer asks schools to report data in the categories and craft the report, they FOI a report schools are required to submit to the NCAA following NCAA established and required procedures. It is a REQUIREMENT of membership in other words dicking around is a violation.
No no no no it is all evil mind tricks.

Just another poor soul who thought a conference patch magically conferred superiority.
Learfield pays AState $1.6 million a year for marketing rights. UNT and La Tech $500,000 each. Why oh why? AState has no pro competition in state, only one P5 in state, no other G5's in state. Hell Riceland Foods was willing to fund a new bowl game just help AState. The owner of Centennial Bank couldn't get his board to buy our stadium naming rights because they had no banks in NE Arkansas so he bought the bank that got the naming rights. Learfield paid more because they know they can make more selling the Red Wolves than UNT and Tech combined.

But surely it's fake if you just hate AState a little harder. Poor WKU misses us even now.

You will not find any post by me saying CUSA is better in anything just because it's CUSA....

As to the numbers reported by ASU and as a lawyer that's been involved with ASU for as long as I remember. You know donations and naming rights would fall in one of these .....

Contributions, Rights / Licensing and not OTHER

I understand why ASU started listing everything including the kitchen sink in as "budget" related. With a budget around 13 to 15 million ASU was not going anywhere if a conference added schools. You know that, I know that, everyone should understand that. ASU can win the SBC every year and that budget along with limitations of location (Western had that same problem...still does) ASU would not be a target in any future expansion.

So if state laws limits the way ASU can report numbers as Chief has said since we been doing this game...going on at least 10 years. ASU found a way around those laws to make the school more attractive if there's future expansion. As most of us has seen in the last 6 or 7 years ...winning is not #1 on the list. It should be but isn't.

That 18 million is more than every school I looked at for "other"
I went down the line starting at A and just clicked on schools...some P5 and G5 to get a good mix. You know there's some fuzzy math going on with the way ASU counts.

Just look at Expenses for ASU your school pays less for coaches than Western. Scholarships dollars close to same and less in Facilities / Overhead

But ASU list $27,082,809 in the OTHER for expenses. Now tell me, what "other" is there that could add up to that amount?
2015 $16,067,778,
2014 $8,103,962.

Most of the previous 9 years 3-4 million range. Now tell me in what year did ASU start upgrading their stadium? How mush has ASU invested in building since 2014? I bet it's in the neighborhood of that 51 million increase in the "OTHER" for expenses.


"OTHER" revenue
Boise State 3,4,6 million range
Arkansas under 1 million (they dont play pay check games)
Bowling Green 3 million range
UFC 12 million 2016 usually 1-3 million
Cincinnati 5 million
Clemson 7 million 2016 usually 1-4 million
Colorado State 2 million range
East Carolina 2 million range
Georgia 3 to 6 million
Houston usually in the 1 to 2 million had a jump to 5 mil in 2016...NY-6 bowl?
UK 3 to 4 million
Louisiana-Lafayette 1 to 2 million
Marshall 1-2 million
Memphis 1-2 million
Mississippi 1-3 except 2014 7 million they played in a NY-6 bowl
San Diego State 1-3 million
South Alabama 1-3 million
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 11:50 AM by WKUYG.)
07-08-2017 11:43 AM
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Post: #28
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 11:11 AM)glsjunior74 Wrote:  I think that GSU owning our own building will change our revenue profile a bit.

But you don't own it right now. Carter does.

That's how you're getting around the 100% funding requirement from the BoR.
07-08-2017 11:53 AM
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balanced_view Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 11:30 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:12 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 08:08 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  The numbers are interesting to look at but don't mean that much for G5 schools.

Each school / state likely report things differently. For Coastal, one example is our expenses are higher because our in-state and probably out of state tuition is higher than most conference schools. For the Louisiana schools, I think their expenses appear lower thanks to the generous state scholarship programs.

I'd rather see more apple to apple comparisons. How many players are on scholarship? What are the coach salaries per sport? What are the program specific expenses? How much in general AD expenses? What are the band / spirit expenses? What is the school spending on bond payments for athletic buildings?

how and what generous state scholarship programs, are helping the Louisiana schools athletic expenses appear lower?

https://www.osfa.la.gov/tops_mainlink.html

Roka, I dont see how TOPS, help keep Athletic expenses lower. Tops is not related to Athletics
07-08-2017 03:13 PM
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rokamortis Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 03:13 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:30 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:12 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 08:08 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  The numbers are interesting to look at but don't mean that much for G5 schools.

Each school / state likely report things differently. For Coastal, one example is our expenses are higher because our in-state and probably out of state tuition is higher than most conference schools. For the Louisiana schools, I think their expenses appear lower thanks to the generous state scholarship programs.

I'd rather see more apple to apple comparisons. How many players are on scholarship? What are the coach salaries per sport? What are the program specific expenses? How much in general AD expenses? What are the band / spirit expenses? What is the school spending on bond payments for athletic buildings?

how and what generous state scholarship programs, are helping the Louisiana schools athletic expenses appear lower?

https://www.osfa.la.gov/tops_mainlink.html

Roka, I dont see how TOPS, help keep Athletic expenses lower. Tops is not related to Athletics

By recruiting athletes that qualify, the scholarships aren't paid by (or attributed in case of subsidy) to the athletic department thus keeping the expenses related to scholarships low. With a 2.5 minimum high school GPA and 2.3 minimum college GPA to renew it is the lowest requirements for a state scholarship program I've seen.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 03:35 PM by rokamortis.)
07-08-2017 03:30 PM
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arkstfan Away
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.
07-08-2017 03:33 PM
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balanced_view Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 03:30 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:13 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:30 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:12 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 08:08 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  The numbers are interesting to look at but don't mean that much for G5 schools.

Each school / state likely report things differently. For Coastal, one example is our expenses are higher because our in-state and probably out of state tuition is higher than most conference schools. For the Louisiana schools, I think their expenses appear lower thanks to the generous state scholarship programs.

I'd rather see more apple to apple comparisons. How many players are on scholarship? What are the coach salaries per sport? What are the program specific expenses? How much in general AD expenses? What are the band / spirit expenses? What is the school spending on bond payments for athletic buildings?

how and what generous state scholarship programs, are helping the Louisiana schools athletic expenses appear lower?

https://www.osfa.la.gov/tops_mainlink.html

Roka, I dont see how TOPS, help keep Athletic expenses lower. Tops is not related to Athletics

By recruiting athletes that qualify, the scholarships aren't paid by the athletic department thus keeping the expenses related to scholarships low. With a 2.5 minimum high school GPA and 2.3 minimum college GPA to renew it is the lowest state scholarship program I've seen.

ok, i can see that may happen some times for some Olympic sports. i dont believe it makes a big difference in the final numbers. However, on face value, guess it could make a difference to expenses.
07-08-2017 03:38 PM
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Post: #33
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 03:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.

How hard is it to understand the hard revenue did not increase at ASU or at least anywhere close to what ASU is reporting as revenue.

Now ASU might be different than most other schools but buildings are under the general fund and the building of those buildings are paid out of the general funds. Donations that are not under the general funds are usually athletic clubs. At Western that would be HAF and at ASU that would be the RWF.

As a lawyer I know you know this. Don't know why you are side stepping it like you are.

All of those projects are in the ARKANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM
Capital Projects Report May 8 , 2015 http://www.asusystem.edu/board-of-truste...eports.pdf

Now ASU might be different than most state own schools...Chief and a few others have told me ASU is different.

But buildings are own by the state and as the owner all projects would have to be funded through the general fund. Football budgets do not usually cover the building or updating the building on campus. That includes the stadium. So the money spent on them should not be revenue.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 04:31 PM by WKUYG.)
07-08-2017 04:30 PM
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rokamortis Offline
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 04:30 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.

How hard is it to understand the hard revenue did not increase at ASU or at least anywhere close to what ASU is reporting as revenue.

Now ASU might be different than most other schools but buildings are under the general fund and the building of those buildings are paid out of the general funds. Donations that are not under the general funds are usually athletic clubs. At Western that would be HAF and at ASU that would be the RWF.

As a lawyer I know you know this. Don't know why you are side stepping it like you are.

All of those projects are in the ARKANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM
Capital Projects Report May 8 , 2015 http://www.asusystem.edu/board-of-truste...eports.pdf

Now ASU might be different than most state own schools...Chief and a few others have told me ASU is different.

But buildings are own by the state and as the owner all projects would have to be funded through the general fund. Football budgets do not usually cover the building or updating the building on campus. That includes the stadium. So the money spent on them should not be revenue.

I've heard many examples where an athletic foundation raises money and transfers to the school for payment. Nothing wrong with that at all.
07-08-2017 05:45 PM
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Post: #35
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 03:30 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:13 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:30 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:12 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 08:08 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  The numbers are interesting to look at but don't mean that much for G5 schools.

Each school / state likely report things differently. For Coastal, one example is our expenses are higher because our in-state and probably out of state tuition is higher than most conference schools. For the Louisiana schools, I think their expenses appear lower thanks to the generous state scholarship programs.

Could help with partial scholarship sports but not majors.

I'd rather see more apple to apple comparisons. How many players are on scholarship? What are the coach salaries per sport? What are the program specific expenses? How much in general AD expenses? What are the band / spirit expenses? What is the school spending on bond payments for athletic buildings?

how and what generous state scholarship programs, are helping the Louisiana schools athletic expenses appear lower?

https://www.osfa.la.gov/tops_mainlink.html

Roka, I dont see how TOPS, help keep Athletic expenses lower. Tops is not related to Athletics

By recruiting athletes that qualify, the scholarships aren't paid by (or attributed in case of subsidy) to the athletic department thus keeping the expenses related to scholarships low. With a 2.5 minimum high school GPA and 2.3 minimum college GPA to renew it is the lowest requirements for a state scholarship program I've seen.
07-08-2017 05:57 PM
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 05:57 PM)CajunAmos Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:30 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:13 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:30 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:12 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  how and what generous state scholarship programs, are helping the Louisiana schools athletic expenses appear lower?

https://www.osfa.la.gov/tops_mainlink.html

Roka, I dont see how TOPS, help keep Athletic expenses lower. Tops is not related to Athletics

By recruiting athletes that qualify, the scholarships aren't paid by (or attributed in case of subsidy) to the athletic department thus keeping the expenses related to scholarships low. With a 2.5 minimum high school GPA and 2.3 minimum college GPA to renew it is the lowest requirements for a state scholarship program I've seen.


I think many are just missing or unaware of the point. The NCAA doesn't care what a scholarship covers, in or out of state. It's still one scholly to them.

To the school though, it's very different. For example, (totally made up cause I don't feel like looking it up), if Coastal Carolina recruits two football players, one from SC and one from GA, the SC kid's scholly will cost CCU say $10000 while the GA kid's scholly costs CCU $20000. This isn't just Olympics sports, or non head-count sports. It's true for all sports.

Therefore, a school like CCU, who is recruiting FL and GA heavily will spend considerably more $ (bc a lot are gonna be out of state) for the same of scholarships than say a GA school who can get high numbers of quality athletes at in state rates. The problem is obviously worse for schools with bigger disparities between in state and out of state rates.

As Rok points out, there are ways to "make it cheaper" for the athletics dept. Some schools will give in state rates to kids meeting certain academic levels. Some will give in state rates for majors not offered at a home state school. Etc. While I'm not 100% versed in the exact scenario Rok is implying with LA schools, I'm guessing it's along those lines.

But overall, yes, all scholarships are affected by in state vs out of state, depending on how the school handles it.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 07:27 PM by MOTIAW.)
07-08-2017 07:24 PM
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Post: #37
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 05:45 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 04:30 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.

How hard is it to understand the hard revenue did not increase at ASU or at least anywhere close to what ASU is reporting as revenue.

Now ASU might be different than most other schools but buildings are under the general fund and the building of those buildings are paid out of the general funds. Donations that are not under the general funds are usually athletic clubs. At Western that would be HAF and at ASU that would be the RWF.

As a lawyer I know you know this. Don't know why you are side stepping it like you are.

All of those projects are in the ARKANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM
Capital Projects Report May 8 , 2015 http://www.asusystem.edu/board-of-truste...eports.pdf

Now ASU might be different than most state own schools...Chief and a few others have told me ASU is different.

But buildings are own by the state and as the owner all projects would have to be funded through the general fund. Football budgets do not usually cover the building or updating the building on campus. That includes the stadium. So the money spent on them should not be revenue.

I've heard many examples where an athletic foundation raises money and transfers to the school for payment. Nothing wrong with that at all.

That is not what happened here or you would see it as a donation. Look at 2015 and you see the 5 million dollar gift under Contributions. That is revenue. A one time revenue but still revenue and explains the anomaly from the other 9 years where Contributions were 1/5 mil and 1.5 mil. As as you pointed out a athletic foundation can give funds to the school. The money making P5 programs do that all the time. But you will see this money documented.
07-08-2017 07:42 PM
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 06:14 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Does that post make you feel better?

Apparently not, he lodged the exact same complaint on the CUSA board.
07-08-2017 07:48 PM
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
Sheesh! Let it go dude. We had a good year. Move on. At this point you are coming off as an insecure fan threatened by what you perceive as a lowly SunBelt team. Yes, accounting differs from one state to the next. The way the accounting works in Arkansas stAte has to report the one time donations this way. Like it or hate it, that's the truth of that year's accounting for our circumstances. You're the only one making a hot mess of this.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 08:24 PM by sdcritter.)
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RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 08:23 PM)sdcritter Wrote:  Sheesh! Let it go dude. We had a good year. Move on. At this point you are coming off as an insecure fan threatened by what you perceive as a lowly SunBelt team. Yes, accounting differs from one state to the next. The way the accounting works in Arkansas stAte has to report the one time donations this way. Like it or hate it, that's the truth of that year's accounting for our circumstances. You're the only one making a hot mess of this.

Just an idiot Topper. I am surprised he can read or type.
07-08-2017 09:52 PM
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