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WKUYG Away
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Post: #41
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 08:23 PM)sdcritter Wrote:  Sheesh! Let it go dude. We had a good year. Move on. At this point you are coming off as an insecure fan threatened by what you perceive as a lowly SunBelt team. Yes, accounting differs from one state to the next. The way the accounting works in Arkansas stAte has to report the one time donations this way. Like it or hate it, that's the truth of that year's accounting for our circumstances. You're the only one making a hot mess of this.

I'm not threaten by ASU, why would I? this thread is just a repeat of the last 10 years...maybe longer

Between myself, ArkStFan and Chief where I point out the numbers and ASU fans tell me how ASU is the one school in college sports that does it " The Ark St way" and don't follow other schools. Is that anything like The Ohio St way?

BTW since both posted on the CUSA board on this topic I figured this was a better board to respond to it. Since the discussion is about a SBC school. They are the one's that sniffed someone was talking budgets on the CUSA board. Must have a alert that rings a bell when Ark St is mentioned
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 10:12 PM by WKUYG.)
07-08-2017 10:10 PM
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Post: #42
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 04:30 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.

How hard is it to understand the hard revenue did not increase at ASU or at least anywhere close to what ASU is reporting as revenue.

Now ASU might be different than most other schools but buildings are under the general fund and the building of those buildings are paid out of the general funds. Donations that are not under the general funds are usually athletic clubs. At Western that would be HAF and at ASU that would be the RWF.

As a lawyer I know you know this. Don't know why you are side stepping it like you are.

All of those projects are in the ARKANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM
Capital Projects Report May 8 , 2015 http://www.asusystem.edu/board-of-truste...eports.pdf

Now ASU might be different than most state own schools...Chief and a few others have told me ASU is different.

But buildings are own by the state and as the owner all projects would have to be funded through the general fund. Football budgets do not usually cover the building or updating the building on campus. That includes the stadium. So the money spent on them should not be revenue.
As a lawyer you know to read the rules. Read the methodology paragraphs. When money is borrowed the expenses go to capital. While vast portions of the building was done with money fronted, not 100%

You are side-stepping that you've been on this for years and every single time I've tried to show you the issues you've always defaulted back to USA Today UNTIL the numbers looked good for AState.

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/20...af3f-9.pdf

Red Wolf Foundation in 2015-16 told the IRS it had just over $3 million in contributions and $4.4 million in "other" revenue for a grand total of $7.5 million. USA Today lists contributions as $2.2 million for the relevant period.
07-09-2017 07:50 PM
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Post: #43
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 10:10 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 08:23 PM)sdcritter Wrote:  Sheesh! Let it go dude. We had a good year. Move on. At this point you are coming off as an insecure fan threatened by what you perceive as a lowly SunBelt team. Yes, accounting differs from one state to the next. The way the accounting works in Arkansas stAte has to report the one time donations this way. Like it or hate it, that's the truth of that year's accounting for our circumstances. You're the only one making a hot mess of this.

I'm not threaten by ASU, why would I? this thread is just a repeat of the last 10 years...maybe longer

Between myself, ArkStFan and Chief where I point out the numbers and ASU fans tell me how ASU is the one school in college sports that does it " The Ark St way" and don't follow other schools. Is that anything like The Ohio St way?

BTW since both posted on the CUSA board on this topic I figured this was a better board to respond to it. Since the discussion is about a SBC school. They are the one's that sniffed someone was talking budgets on the CUSA board. Must have a alert that rings a bell when Ark St is mentioned

I was specifically referenced multiple times. Expect me to not find out and go and respond but boo hoo I responded to a thread on the CUSA board calling me out multiple times. Thou protests too much.
07-09-2017 07:52 PM
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Post: #44
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 03:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.

From an accounting standpoint, pretty hard. Capital expenditures typically aren't considered expenses.
07-10-2017 08:00 AM
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Post: #45
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-10-2017 08:00 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.

From an accounting standpoint, pretty hard. Capital expenditures typically aren't considered expenses.

Governmental accounting standards are different than any other. GASB standards call for the recognition of revenue of any bond proceeds and the expenditure of capital outlay.
07-10-2017 08:32 AM
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Post: #46
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-10-2017 08:32 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 08:00 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 03:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  How hard is it to understand that if you receive dollars and spend dollars to build and indoor practice facility and to raze your press box and build and entirely new one, that revenue and expenses will increase.

From an accounting standpoint, pretty hard. Capital expenditures typically aren't considered expenses.

Governmental accounting standards are different than any other. GASB standards call for the recognition of revenue of any bond proceeds and the expenditure of capital outlay.

And the NCAA Agreed Upon Procedures standards call for capital expenditures to be stated separately outside of expenses as "Other Reporting Items"

See Appendix C - Item 56 (Page 37)

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...170515.pdf

I don't know if USA Today pulled this item over or if A State is reporting it this way. I don't really care either. Without seeing the statements it's all speculation. ODU finished a basketball practice facility paid for with 100% private funds that I don't expect to show up in their expenses next year.
07-10-2017 08:58 AM
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Post: #47
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 09:59 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Been looking all over campus for 9M dollars worth of facility upgrades and I can't find sh#t. Too bad, WKUYG got me all excited.

Wait until he pulls out his spreadsheets...
07-10-2017 09:48 AM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #48
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
With the way CUSA fans are having a meltdown over this, you'd think StAte's financial reports were the direct cause of their tv deal imploding or something.
07-10-2017 09:54 AM
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Post: #49
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-08-2017 06:48 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 02:23 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Someone said 2016 was the last year of the Fox deal. I believe that's wrong...2016 is the first year of the two year deal CUSA signed. A deal without Fox

There's a reason you see large increases in revenue for a few SBC schools. Those schools are counting building funds as revenue.

Does anyone honestly think ARK St increased their revenue by 23 million in two years and 14 million in one year. With that Ark St had a increase of 300k in ticket sales and a 4 million drop in Contributions from 2015 to 2016

In 2013 coming off back to back 10 win seasons ARK ST listed Contributions at $403,388 which is closer to the previous 8 years other than 2012 84k. Then coming off a 7-6 season Contributions jumps to over 6 million while tickets sales decreased.

I was told by Chief many years ago...ARK ST does it the "ARK ST WAY" which is different than any other school in FBS

When you see a anomaly like the $18,922,066 in the "other" when that number was between 2.5 & 3 million the previous 8 years. It would set off bells, whistles, and red flags and You would be audited if this was a tax return.

No G5 school jumps 15 million unless it's a building fund.

It looks like at least a couple SBC schools treat building funds as revenue. GASO show a 9 million dollar increase in revenue. The only other year they had over a 2 million increase was their move up and that was 5 million. 4.5 million (half) came from a increase in school funds. If you look at their expenses you will see a 5.3 million one time increase in Facilities / Overhead. Again going by the previous 11 season that is a huge anomaly.

So like Ark St I bet GASO had some building going on during the 2016 season that they didn't the previous years. Either started or finished.

Most school I looked at does not use one time building funds as revenue. I know for a fact Western does not do this. At Western bond payments are listed yearly Facilities / Overhead. And one time donations like 5 million for naming rights (2007) to the football stadium will not show up as other, Contributions or Rights / Licensing. You will not see onetime donations directed at a project listed in Western revenue. Like the 2.5 million donated to put in new video boards in Diddle arena and Houchen's stadium. That money has to go into the general fund then a line item on that years budget. Under the "other" it was explained to me this revenue is mostly guarantees from football and basketball, coaches buyout, if any, concessions, parking.

If you look at Western you will see a 1.7 million increase in the OTHER revenue for 2014 over 2013. That was the year BP took the Louisville job and the buyout was 1.5 million.

I guess I could have stopped at if you have a anomaly and it can't be explained by Ticket Sales, Contributions. Rights / Licensing, or a huge pay day from guarantee games.....it's not revenue in the way most if not all of the rest of us define revenue




Is it possible that WKU does it's thing in accordance with Kentucky state laws and Arkansas State does its accounting in line with the laws of Arkansas? By the way, would love to whip the 'toppers ass again.

lol
07-10-2017 09:56 AM
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Post: #50
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
Someone please explain why ODU has the biggest budget in CUSA by $7 million, I think they are being sneaky. Oh and toss JMU into that. $13 million more than anyone in CAA? Whaaaat.

I'll hang up and listen.
07-10-2017 01:36 PM
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Post: #51
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-10-2017 01:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Someone please explain why ODU has the biggest budget in CUSA by $7 million, I think they are being sneaky. Oh and toss JMU into that. $13 million more than anyone in CAA? Whaaaat.

I'll hang up and listen.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours:


http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/OldD...AA2016.pdf
07-10-2017 01:52 PM
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Post: #52
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-10-2017 01:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Someone please explain why ODU has the biggest budget in CUSA by $7 million, I think they are being sneaky. Oh and toss JMU into that. $13 million more than anyone in CAA? Whaaaat.

I'll hang up and listen.
I've seen it discussed elsewhere that Virginia requires all sorts of stuff to be included in the athletics budget that most other places don't; don't remember all the details, but I believe the marching band was one of them. Since both of those are in VA, it could stand to reason that that is the culprit
07-10-2017 01:52 PM
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Post: #53
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
From JMU's Carr Report several years ago (starts at the bottom of page VII - 45):


Quote:However, it is important to note that approximately $6 million, or 17%, of Athletics' FY 2011-12 operating expenses of $34,595,223 were designated to cover the combined expenses for the University Agency Service Charges (ASC) and Facilities Maintenance. Agency Service Charges ($2.78 million for Athletics in 2011-12) are required by the Commonwealth of Virginia and serve as a form of recovery back to the University’s Education and General Budget to offset institutional expenses associated with supporting Auxiliary Operations. CarrSports observes that the extent and amount of these charges is atypical for most FCS and many FBS (non-Automatic Qualifying) athletics programs. While the costs associated with the ASC and Facility Maintenance occur at all institutions, they are often not allocated to athletics, but absorbed by the University. As such, these costs do not often appear in the NCAA or Federal financial disclosure reports for athletic departments.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews...1c.pdf.pdf
07-10-2017 02:03 PM
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Post: #54
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
CUSA folks stop looking over your shoulders we are in front you now.
07-10-2017 03:37 PM
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Post: #55
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
UArk reports revenue of roughly $125 million to the NCAA, to the state they report $112 million. UALR reports revenue of $12 million the NCAA, $9 million to the state.

Hiring an AD who fills out the NCAA paperwork the way the NCAA wants instead of copying off the state report has caused a bump in AState revenue since the 2012-13 fiscal year.
07-10-2017 04:03 PM
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Post: #56
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-10-2017 04:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  UArk reports revenue of roughly $125 million to the NCAA, to the state they report $112 million. UALR reports revenue of $12 million the NCAA, $9 million to the state.

Hiring an AD who fills out the NCAA paperwork the way the NCAA wants instead of copying off the state report has caused a bump in AState revenue since the 2012-13 fiscal year.

That may be. By "state" I assume you mean the DOE. ODU's numbers are about 4.5 million higher for the NCAA than the DOE. Many schools weren't reporting expenses paid directly by athletic foundations until a few years ago when changes in the AUP were made. So a bump in coaches salaries/facilities, etc. and a corresponding bump in contributions would be expected. The part people have a problem with is the huge jump in "other" income/expense which you claim is capital expenditures. If that's the case then your AD needs to do some more research into how the NCAA wants the "forms" filled out. These figures are independently audited and that's a big enough amount in my mind that an auditor wouldn't just let it go without agreeing with the reasoning behind it's inclusion. So...who knows. Not enough information. But if I were a user of the past few years of Ark St's financial statements and were making some sort of financial decision based off of them, I'd have a lot of questions.
07-11-2017 09:04 AM
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Post: #57
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-10-2017 03:37 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  CUSA folks stop looking over your shoulders we are in front you now.

Haha! Jokes on you, we're driving in reverse.
07-11-2017 12:07 PM
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Post: #58
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-11-2017 12:07 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 03:37 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  CUSA folks stop looking over your shoulders we are in front you now.

Haha! Jokes on you, we're driving in reverse.

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07-11-2017 12:20 PM
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BRtransplant Offline
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Post: #59
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-10-2017 03:37 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  CUSA folks stop looking over your shoulders we are in front you now.

No, the SBC is in front of no one. Meaningless poll or not, the Orlando Sentinel Countdown shows the conferences stacking up as follows:
1)AAC 2)CUSA 3)MWC 4)MAC 5)SBC.

Maybe it's just how everybody still perceives the SBC but the fact remains, the SBC came in dead last. Again.
07-11-2017 05:55 PM
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Post: #60
RE: 2016 Revenue by School
(07-11-2017 05:55 PM)BRtransplant Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 03:37 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  CUSA folks stop looking over your shoulders we are in front you now.

No, the SBC is in front of no one. Meaningless poll or not, the Orlando Sentinel Countdown shows the conferences stacking up as follows:
1)AAC 2)CUSA 3)MWC 4)MAC 5)SBC.

Maybe it's just how everybody still perceives the SBC but the fact remains, the SBC came in dead last. Again.

Things in life you can count on.
Arkansas State will not be picked to win the Sun Belt in football
Sun Belt will be picked at the bottom of the conferences.

Yet 37.5% of the time AState takes at least a share.
Sun Belt has finished last in the performance pool what once in the last four years.
07-11-2017 06:02 PM
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