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2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #41
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-07-2017 08:35 PM)ODU2017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 04:25 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Let's face it....... we are all po' folks when it comes to college athletics when compared to the Silver Spooners

[Image: po-folks.jpg]
I just don't get why a school in the middle of nowhere gets to represent my entire state. ODU has 20k students, sits in the middle of a 1 million person metro area and is treated like it's irrelevant.

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Most flagships and landgrants (the old schools) were built in what was the "middle of no where". The idea at the time was that you're there for an education not entertainment.

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07-07-2017 10:45 PM
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FriscoDawg Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-07-2017 04:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Then WKU isn't filling out the form correctly. If you look at the way the NCAA wants it completed, capital costs are supposed to be included. If you borrowed money to build it is required to be included in expenses.
It is Arkansas State that is filing the NCAA financial report incorrectly if revenues and expenses directly related to principal on capital projects are being included with operating revenues and expenses. The definitions I posted from the linked NCAA document make that point crystal clear. Only debt-service (interest) payments and contributions made to pay interest on capital projects should be included.

USA Today is getting their information straight from the NCAA financial reports through FOI requests and not from information filed with any governmental agency. That is supposed to make the information as much an apples to apples comparison as possible.

I for one would like to see the full 2015-2016 Arkansas State AUP report so this discussion can be concluded one way or the other.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 12:01 AM by FriscoDawg.)
07-07-2017 11:31 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #43
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-06-2017 09:32 PM)ODU Oldtimer Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:03 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I guess its different ways to count "revenues"

Ticket sells goes up a fraction and donations down 4 million and rights are up by almost 3 million.

If you check past seasons you can tell there's some fuzzy math going on. In 6 years ARK ST increase "revenues" by 33.6 million. Now who believes that?

[Image: akst-L.jpg]

What is the $18,000.000.00 (Million) in the "Other Category".......? In years past that column showed $3+ Million. That is a lot of revenue from something I would think they would need to show a itemized explanation for.......? For a School that only brings in $1.5 million in ticket sales and $2.2 million in other contributions that is a HUGE BUDGET.

I try to stay out of this, but Mohajir has been asked about this something like 12 times in the past year. His answer is always the same. We discovered that we were not reporting our budget correctly prior to 2011, and the last few years have been a direct result of fixing that.

I know he wants to constantly maintain a budget of around 40 million. That's the goal at least.
07-08-2017 07:35 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #44
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
"Other" indeed. As in "there's this 'other' way we found to do accounting that no one else is using."
07-09-2017 05:15 AM
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ThreeifbyLightning Offline
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Post: #45
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-07-2017 10:37 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 08:57 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  The only thing that strikes me as odd about ODU's numbers is this.

If ODU is selling more tickets or similar amount of tickets at higher prices and also receiving more from fundraising it would be rational to expect that ODU would also be selling more stuff thus the licensing revenue would be higher than everyone else's in the league, but it is not. This appears to be a significant anomaly. Consider Hawaii with similar ticket sales and contribution revenues but licensing more than double ODU's. The whole range between 60 to 70 bears this out.

In fact, ODU's licensing revenue is similar to C-USA schools with much lower revenues in the other two categories. This includes numbers similar to MT and we are terrible at merchandise pushing and licensing agreements. So, for me (and I'm not bashing ODU in anyway) something doesn't add up there. Just my 2 cents.
it's called a ridiculous subsidy.

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The subsidy has nothing to do with what I'm talking about - which should have been clear.
07-09-2017 07:36 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-07-2017 08:57 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  The only thing that strikes me as odd about ODU's numbers is this.

If ODU is selling more tickets or similar amount of tickets at higher prices and also receiving more from fundraising it would be rational to expect that ODU would also be selling more stuff thus the licensing revenue would be higher than everyone else's in the league, but it is not. This appears to be a significant anomaly. Consider Hawaii with similar ticket sales and contribution revenues but licensing more than double ODU's. The whole range between 60 to 70 bears this out.

In fact, ODU's licensing revenue is similar to C-USA schools with much lower revenues in the other two categories. This includes numbers similar to MT and we are terrible at merchandise pushing and licensing agreements. So, for me (and I'm not bashing ODU in anyway) something doesn't add up there. Just my 2 cents.

ODU has the same problem that is bolded as MT. If you want ODU gear, you basically have to buy it at the bookstore or the online bookstore. It's sold elsewhere but it's not easy to find.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 09:21 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
07-09-2017 09:19 AM
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Niner National Online
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Post: #47
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-09-2017 09:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 08:57 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  The only thing that strikes me as odd about ODU's numbers is this.

If ODU is selling more tickets or similar amount of tickets at higher prices and also receiving more from fundraising it would be rational to expect that ODU would also be selling more stuff thus the licensing revenue would be higher than everyone else's in the league, but it is not. This appears to be a significant anomaly. Consider Hawaii with similar ticket sales and contribution revenues but licensing more than double ODU's. The whole range between 60 to 70 bears this out.

In fact, ODU's licensing revenue is similar to C-USA schools with much lower revenues in the other two categories. This includes numbers similar to MT and we are terrible at merchandise pushing and licensing agreements. So, for me (and I'm not bashing ODU in anyway) something doesn't add up there. Just my 2 cents.

ODU has the same problem that is bolded as MT. If you want ODU gear, you basically have to buy it at the bookstore or the online bookstore. It's sold elsewhere but it's not easy to find.

Same for Charlotte.
07-09-2017 10:42 AM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #48
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-08-2017 07:35 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:32 PM)ODU Oldtimer Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:03 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I guess its different ways to count "revenues"

Ticket sells goes up a fraction and donations down 4 million and rights are up by almost 3 million.

If you check past seasons you can tell there's some fuzzy math going on. In 6 years ARK ST increase "revenues" by 33.6 million. Now who believes that?

[Image: akst-L.jpg]

What is the $18,000.000.00 (Million) in the "Other Category".......? In years past that column showed $3+ Million. That is a lot of revenue from something I would think they would need to show a itemized explanation for.......? For a School that only brings in $1.5 million in ticket sales and $2.2 million in other contributions that is a HUGE BUDGET.

I try to stay out of this, but Mohajir has been asked about this something like 12 times in the past year. His answer is always the same. We discovered that we were not reporting our budget correctly prior to 2011, and the last few years have been a direct result of fixing that.

I know he wants to constantly maintain a budget of around 40 million. That's the goal at least.

Arkstfan explained it well on the realignment board. I think the fact that the "Other" category for Ark St is so high compared to all other G5 and many P5 schools plus the sudden overall growth of the budget is what has caught attention. It's raining here this morning so I'm bored and looked at every G5 budget in the database. No other school comes anywhere near the Other figure that Ark St has. It's just eye catching. If, as Arkstfan says, this is a one time thing, then we would expect next year's numbers to be in the low 30 million dollar range. It's actually great that ASU was able to bring in that much money.
07-10-2017 08:11 AM
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wh49er Offline
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Post: #49
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
Interesting tidbit on Charlotte here:

"A few G5 programs on USA Today’s list did more than break even with a surplus in the millions. Most notably, Charlotte had the highest surplus among non-service academy G5 schools with $4,394,590 million."

https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2017/7/8...my-knights


Wondering if we are running a surplus to help ease the financial pain of an upcoming expansion?
07-10-2017 08:37 AM
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owlcountry40 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
Want to talk about some funny numbers. I remember getting on FIU about butts in the seats and attendance reporting and FIUPanther's comeback was ''hey at least we sell more tickets'' How much is FIU season tickets? 5 bucks a game. I also see the donations really role in over there.
FIU ticket Sales and contributions
$678,453 $157,292

FAU ticket Sales and contributions
$1,615,037 $1,892,024
07-10-2017 08:51 AM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #51
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-07-2017 04:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 11:15 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 11:28 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:58 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  He's (Winston) negatived rep me I believe 10 times out of 21 that I have and BamaScorpio69 6 times. Guess I rub them the wrong way.

Ark St fan must be busy because we been doing this for freaking 12 years. I post about their numbers and POP! there he is. Chief use to do it often also. Use to tell me they are different the "Ark St way"

I forgot about Chief. I believe he's the editor of the Arky State Pravda. He and Arkstfan can explain anything into an Arky State windfall. I wish I could buy a set of the red colored glasses those guys wear. They'd make me a little more forgiving when we pull a Western.

WKUYG just has a hate boner for us. I've given him the IRS tax return numbers for our booster club and he says BUT USATODAY. Then when USATODAY numbers look good for us he calls bull****.

Whatever.

We picked up nearly $5 million when Centennial Bank bought Liberty Bank and paid the entire naming rights fee remaining upfront as part of the closing costs of the transaction. Picked up another $5 million when the owner of Centennial Bank wrote a personal check for $5 million. Losers want to say its fake accounting.

The numbers USA today use is numbers each school files with the government. And even with the one time $10,000,000 from the bank that would be under Contributions & Rights / Licensing. I will repeat this one more time. Ark St is listing building funds in with their numbers and one time donations. I know for a fact at Western those are not counting in as Revenues. Houchen paid $5,000,000 for the naming rights to Western's stadium in 2007 but you will not see that in Western's numbers.

Western is adding new video boards in Diddle Arena and for football at the cost of 2.5 million dollars. Paid for by private donations. You do not see that in the numbers on USA Today.

Below is what you sent me...it's far from a public doc but I take your word those numbers are correct. So tell me which government form is Ark ST lying on? The IRS or the ones USA Today got from ask or a open records request?

If you click on the breakdown of the numbers below is the amount being spent by Western and ARK ST. in the most common forms...Coaching / Staff, Scholarships, Facilities / Overhead.

Western

$9,644,170
$6,335,700
$3,500,730

ARK ST

$7,201,988
$6,755,420
$2,061,827

Yet ARK ST is spending $27,082,809 in OTHER which is 19 million more than 2 years earlier.

As I said Ark St is adding in building funds where other schools don't do that. At least not Western

Below is the "IRS" numbers Arkstfan sent me

arkstfan Away
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AState tax returns.
To: WKUYG
From 1099's filed with the IRS by the Red Wolf Foundation.
Year is what year it was in July when the fiscal year started.
This is from the revenue line of each return, it is signed under penalty of perjury and the risk of prosecution for filing a false return.
2002 $1,520,699
2003 $1,822,344
2004 $1,517,000
2005 $1,561,806
2006 $1,348,602
2007 $1,583,110
2008 $1,572,927
2009 $2,435,279
2010 $2,183,311
2011 $2,657,240
2012 $3,288,308
arkstfan Away
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More tax
To: WKUYG
2013 $5,543,925
2014 $6,071,620
2015 $7,500,866

Then WKU isn't filling out the form correctly. If you look at the way the NCAA wants it completed, capital costs are supposed to be included. If you borrowed money to build it is required to be included in expenses.

Nope, FriscoDawg has the right of it.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-821455-post-144...id14434614
07-10-2017 09:07 AM
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Mr. Bojangles Offline
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Post: #52
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-10-2017 08:37 AM)wh49er Wrote:  Interesting tidbit on Charlotte here:

"A few G5 programs on USA Today’s list did more than break even with a surplus in the millions. Most notably, Charlotte had the highest surplus among non-service academy G5 schools with $4,394,590 million."

https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2017/7/8...my-knights


Wondering if we are running a surplus to help ease the financial pain of an upcoming expansion?

Maybe somebody really messed up while cooking those numbers???
07-10-2017 09:20 AM
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Post: #53
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-10-2017 09:20 AM)Mr. Bojangles Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 08:37 AM)wh49er Wrote:  Interesting tidbit on Charlotte here:

"A few G5 programs on USA Today’s list did more than break even with a surplus in the millions. Most notably, Charlotte had the highest surplus among non-service academy G5 schools with $4,394,590 million."

https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2017/7/8...my-knights


Wondering if we are running a surplus to help ease the financial pain of an upcoming expansion?

Maybe somebody really messed up while cooking those numbers???

Too much salt?
07-10-2017 09:39 AM
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correcamino Offline
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Post: #54
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
Allocated funds are student fees, monetary institutional support, and monetary state support. The last column is a percentage of how much of the total revenue comes from that.

I'd be interested to see what the non-allocated revenue is (total revenue minus allocated revenue). All of us are far from being self-sufficient but that would give a better idea of which CUSA programs generate the most income relative to each other. I'd do it myself but on my phone.
07-10-2017 08:34 PM
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correcamino Offline
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Post: #55
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
Jesus christ ODU has over $29 million in student fees and an enrollment of 25k. That's over $1000 per yr per student in just athletic fees.

The next highest is FIU at $20 million(55k enrollment though) and Charlotte at $19 million. Everyone else falls between $6-$12 million, except La Tech who apparently doesnt charge their students athletic fees. Good for them.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 08:59 PM by correcamino.)
07-10-2017 08:39 PM
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12thmonarch Offline
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Post: #56
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-10-2017 08:39 PM)correcamino Wrote:  Jesus christ ODU has over $29k in student fees and an enrollment of 25k. That's over $1000 per yr per student in just athletic fees.

The next highest is FIU at $20k (55k enrollment though) and Charlotte at $19k. Everyone else falls between $6k-$12k, except La Tech who apparently doesnt charge their students athletic fees. Good for them.

The Math is a little fuzzy when it comes to reporting in VA but hey we are the 2nd most affordable school in VA that offers Bachelors, Masters and Research programs.
07-10-2017 08:55 PM
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FriscoDawg Offline
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Post: #57
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-10-2017 08:34 PM)correcamino Wrote:  Allocated funds are student fees, monetary institutional support, and monetary state support. The last column is a percentage of how much of the total revenue comes from that.

I'd be interested to see what the non-allocated revenue is (total revenue minus allocated revenue). All of us are far from being self-sufficient but that would give a better idea of which CUSA programs generate the most income relative to each other. I'd do it myself but on my phone.
Here is the C-USA non-allocated (can also be categorized as self-generated) revenue list:

Marshall $16,401,765 (54.37% of total revenues)
USM $16,199,356 (62.51%)
Old Dominion $15,936,225 (35.67%)
UTEP $14,495,074 (44.32%)
Rice $14.33 million (38.36%) from Owl Club Impact Report linked in this thread
FAU $14,115,222 (43.92%)
Louisiana Tech $13,237,287 (56.60%)
Charlotte $13,091,223 (35.06%)
North Texas $13,020,674 (39.13%)
Western Kentucky $13,008,861 (44.16%)
Middle Tennessee $12,978,124 (40.04%)
UTSA $12,069,736 (44.01%)
UAB $11,468,809 (35.34%)
FIU $6,251,448 (21.28%)
07-10-2017 10:12 PM
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FriscoDawg Offline
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Post: #58
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-10-2017 08:39 PM)correcamino Wrote:  Jesus christ ODU has over $29 million in student fees and an enrollment of 25k. That's over $1000 per yr per student in just athletic fees.

The next highest is FIU at $20 million(55k enrollment though) and Charlotte at $19 million. Everyone else falls between $6-$12 million, except La Tech who apparently doesnt charge their students athletic fees. Good for them.
Louisiana State Board of Regents' rules set a maximum amount of state support allowed to be transferred to athletics for each university. I believe the base amount is 3% of the university operating budget. Additional transfers above the base amount are allowed to cover the full cost of athletic scholarships and an extra $500,000 gender equity transfer for FBS schools. Athletic student fees collected reduce that otherwise allowed transfer amount dollar-for-dollar.

That dollar-for-dollar reduction eliminates most of the incentive for athletic student fees to be collected by Louisiana universities.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 10:23 PM by FriscoDawg.)
07-10-2017 10:20 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-10-2017 08:55 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 08:39 PM)correcamino Wrote:  Jesus christ ODU has over $29k in student fees and an enrollment of 25k. That's over $1000 per yr per student in just athletic fees.

The next highest is FIU at $20k (55k enrollment though) and Charlotte at $19k. Everyone else falls between $6k-$12k, except La Tech who apparently doesnt charge their students athletic fees. Good for them.

The Math is a little fuzzy when it comes to reporting in VA but hey we are the 2nd most affordable school in VA that offers Bachelors, Masters and Research programs.

And even with the elevated athletic fee, were still more affordable than UTSA.
07-10-2017 10:58 PM
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Dawgxas Offline
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Post: #60
RE: 2016 New CUSA Budgets - USA Today
(07-10-2017 10:12 PM)FriscoDawg Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 08:34 PM)correcamino Wrote:  Allocated funds are student fees, monetary institutional support, and monetary state support. The last column is a percentage of how much of the total revenue comes from that.

I'd be interested to see what the non-allocated revenue is (total revenue minus allocated revenue). All of us are far from being self-sufficient but that would give a better idea of which CUSA programs generate the most income relative to each other. I'd do it myself but on my phone.
Here is the C-USA non-allocated (can also be categorized as self-generated) revenue list:

Marshall $16,401,765 (54.37% of total revenues)
USM $16,199,356 (62.51%)
Old Dominion $15,936,225 (35.67%)
UTEP $14,495,074 (44.32%)
Rice $14.33 million (38.36%) from Owl Club Impact Report linked in this thread
FAU $14,115,222 (43.92%)
Louisiana Tech $13,237,287 (56.60%)
Charlotte $13,091,223 (35.06%)
North Texas $13,020,674 (39.13%)
Western Kentucky $13,008,861 (44.16%)
Middle Tennessee $12,978,124 (40.04%)
UTSA $12,069,736 (44.01%)
UAB $11,468,809 (35.34%)
FIU $6,251,448 (21.28%)

Thanks, this is more informative than the original post.

USM, Marshall, and Tech the only schools with over 50% from self generated revenues
07-11-2017 12:37 AM
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