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California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #41
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
California has drawn a line in the sand. Soon half the country will be banned, and it will be VERY difficult politically for CA to back down.

I'm an employee at one of the institutions affected, and I'm pissed off at being used as a pawn in an economic war against other Americans.
07-05-2017 12:35 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #42
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-04-2017 02:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 10:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  They'll figure out a way to pay for coaches to travel, using the exemption in OP's point #1.

The spirit and intent of the ban has nothing to do with athletics.

/thread

Exactly. Just like I stated earlier, they will find a way around it. The law wasn't intended to stop games between schools. It can be easily circumvented by writing the game contracts to clearly address the issue or via the use of donated funds (Im sure there are other ways around the travel ban as well). Where it may have some ramifications is you may see some G5's pick up home games vs California P5's because they are more willing to be flexible with contract terms like travel costs.

I'm not so sure about this. My understanding of the legislature/governor intent was that they really do back this law, it is of high ideological importance to them, it wasn't made to be riddled with loopholes, and there isn't the feverish devotion to college athletics out there that there is in other parts of the country.

E.g., I read recently that Houston almost got in trouble with state administrators because they spent $5m of money on the football stadium that they weren't supposed to, IIRC it was state money that wasn't supposed to be spent on athletics. They got out of trouble by convincing an auditor that the money was spent on part of the stadium used by the band, which isn't technically an "athletic" entity, not by the football team (seriously, I'm not making that up, LOL). You can get away with that kind of obvious chicanery and nonsense in Houston, because Texas is devoted to college sports.

But I bet that the California law's administrators expect universities to enforce the law in the spirit in which it was enacted, meaning strictly. They aren't likely to wink/nod at clever attempts to end-run around it with tricky accounting, fungible shuffling of funds, lawyerly spinning of fine print, etc.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2017 06:52 AM by quo vadis.)
07-05-2017 06:46 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #43
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Is it fair to say that smaller less wealthy schools will be impacted more than a PAC school who can simply use their own private donor money to get around CA law
07-05-2017 06:54 AM
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bearcat65 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-04-2017 08:01 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 12:56 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like this could really impact California team participation in NCAA championships and bowl games, many of which are held in "banned" states. E.g., the 2018 Final Four is in San Antonio. I presume if UCLA advances that far, they won't be able to participate?

And what about the PAC tie-ins with bowls in Texas, or playing in the Cotton Bowl there? Presumably, no dice.

And also there would seem to be negative recruiting implications. Can't send coaches or staff to certain states to recruit players.


FCS Championship in Frisco, Texas. The three California schools, if they go into the playoffs and get to that point will be in a pickle as well.

Potentially, the California teams would have to forfeit. It would be the end of either championships in certain states, or the end of the NCAA.

I doubt it's the end of the NCAA and I doubt the California state government is going to risk the backlash they would be sure to receive if one of their state schools were to be forced to forfeit the opportunity to play in a major bowl or national championship game due to it being played in a state on their ban list. If that occurs then hopefully networks have the intestinal fortitude to either sue them or strip them of P5 status. If either occurs then adjustments to the ban would most likely be made.
07-05-2017 08:21 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #45
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Conference California at the D1 be forming. That would be all public schools from all divisions under 1 blanket.
07-05-2017 09:32 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #46
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 12:35 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  California has drawn a line in the sand. Soon half the country will be banned, and it will be VERY difficult politically for CA to back down.

I'm an employee at one of the institutions affected, and I'm pissed off at being used as a pawn in an economic war against other Americans.

However, you presumably work for an institution whose owners (the taxpayers of California) have decided under what conditions they will engage in activities that will subject their citizens to discriminatory laws in other jurisdictions, that have been clearly enacted for the purpose of targeting that minority.

There will be individual persons and institutions that will be caught up in this. The problem the 'let sports be sports' people have is that especially in major male team sports, no one has done anything to include or engage the community that is now clamoring for the ban. What has Fresno State or SDSU done to work with their LGBT communities and to ensure that to the extent that they are LGBT players, that they feel comfortable in those programs? Or have any buy-in whatsoever there?

For years, major college sports (FBS, mens basketball, baseball) have been largely dismissive of wide swaths of their funding public (e.g., their student bodies and the taxpayers). If there was some history of inclusion or even an attempt to include other groups, perhaps they could try to get 'the dogs called off'. This is something that pretty much all the FBS/D1 programs could work on. At some point you might need their support. And its not just LGBT persons, but non-American born students, persons who don't come from an American football culture, etc.

And California's political dynamic is Texas turned on its head. The groups marginalized in Texas are usually swing voters in California's primary elections. These voters could largely care less about the impact of the ban on institutions that largely exclude or ignore them.

The other problem is that this bill and the AG's rulings have been sold as 'no public travel/endorsement'. Having UCLA sign a deal to play at say - Kansas State in football, would be very public.

Having, the Pac12 vote to add UT would be extremely public and would cause many issues.

I don't think Texas caves. I don't think California caves. I don't the the conservative circuit court covering Texas strikes the discriminatory bills down. I don't think the liberal circuit court covering California strikes down the California laws. There is no chance that any bill resolving this in Congress will pass in the next two years or so. And probably for the next four. We're going to be stuck with this for a while.

And its possible that MORE states join California. Several others have bans that are by Gubernatorial order.

But for now, I'd argue that there's little reason to discuss realignment involving the Pac12, the MWC, the Big West, or the Big Sky involving teams from banned states. And I don't know what the WAC is going to do about Bakersfield.

---

By the way, I said....'TRY to keep this non-political'. Its a political act, so there's going to be some political discussion. Maybe I should have said...try to keep it as non-political as the subject allows.
07-05-2017 10:02 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #47
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 08:21 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 08:01 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 12:56 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like this could really impact California team participation in NCAA championships and bowl games, many of which are held in "banned" states. E.g., the 2018 Final Four is in San Antonio. I presume if UCLA advances that far, they won't be able to participate?

And what about the PAC tie-ins with bowls in Texas, or playing in the Cotton Bowl there? Presumably, no dice.

And also there would seem to be negative recruiting implications. Can't send coaches or staff to certain states to recruit players.


FCS Championship in Frisco, Texas. The three California schools, if they go into the playoffs and get to that point will be in a pickle as well.

Potentially, the California teams would have to forfeit. It would be the end of either championships in certain states, or the end of the NCAA.

I doubt it's the end of the NCAA and I doubt the California state government is going to risk the backlash they would be sure to receive if one of their state schools were to be forced to forfeit the opportunity to play in a major bowl or national championship game due to it being played in a state on their ban list. If that occurs then hopefully networks have the intestinal fortitude to either sue them or strip them of P5 status. If either occurs then adjustments to the ban would most likely be made.

Sue them? For what? Obeying California state law? The state of California OWNS the Athletic Department at UCLA and SDSU. Its their property and they can do with it what they wish.

Who would really kick up sand if say Cal had to forfeit a bowl game? Sure there'd be some alumni who are upset (and they'd be loud), but its Cal....I think you overstate how important FBS football is to the average Californian or the average Cal student.

Who would take away P5 status for UCLA and Cal? The networks? Do you think the Pac12 would expel them for that? I promise you all hell would break lose at pretty much EVERY Pac12 institution (from significant portions of their own student bodies and alumni) if they tried that.

And the NCAA isn't going impose sanctions on schools for refusing to subject their students and fans to discrimination in other states.

So no, if California wants to do this, and other states want to join them, then there's little that can be done to change it.
07-05-2017 10:10 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #48
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 06:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Is it fair to say that smaller less wealthy schools will be impacted more than a PAC school who can simply use their own private donor money to get around CA law

This is true. UCLA and Cal don't need money games. Fresno and SJSU do.

And its going to really hurt Bakersfield.

---

The NCAA will probably try to accommodate the bigger California schools in tournaments. They might just leave SLO or Fullerton out to avoid a problem.

Remember the NCAA doesn't want a high profile forfeit. This would actually put pressure on many of their own institutions to do something to combat the discriminatory bills in general and at some of their institutions specifically. They want this thing to be really quiet.
07-05-2017 10:17 AM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #49
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Since I am a state's right guy, I have no issue if Ca does this. I hope they just don't complain if there is a backlash if other states or entities attempt to use this against them. Again, the only city that was truly hurt by NC HB2 was Charlotte. NC despite the inaccurate reporting had record years in tourism and industry gain. It was Charlotte that suffered, not NC losing the ACC Championship Games and NBA All-Star game. I will say the NCAA ban probably hurt some other cities but all those events are returning have NC went back to pre-existing law of HB2. Once again, why is NC still on CA ban list? Why would Texas believe if they change the law, CA will re-instate the travel?
07-05-2017 10:35 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #50
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-04-2017 08:03 AM)westwolf Wrote:  California is a PC swamp.

Lol, OT but man people hate California so much!

But they don't hate their fresh organic fruits, Tesla's, Intel processors, iPhones, MacBooks, Google, Ghirardelli chocolate, and everything else amazing that comes from California....

Sometimes I really wish people could get their wish and California could just succeed for one year. It would be an absolute disaster to the US economy.
07-05-2017 10:36 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #51
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:36 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 08:03 AM)westwolf Wrote:  California is a PC swamp.

Lol, OT but man people hate California so much!

But they don't hate their fresh organic fruits, Tesla's, Intel processors, iPhones, MacBooks, Google, Ghirardelli chocolate, and everything else amazing that comes from China....

Sometimes I really wish people could get their wish and California could just succeed for one year. It would be an absolute disaster to the US economy.

Fixed it for you...
07-05-2017 10:39 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #52
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:35 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Since I am a state's right guy, I have no issue if Ca does this. I hope they just don't complain if there is a backlash if other states or entities attempt to use this against them. Again, the only city that was truly hurt by NC HB2 was Charlotte. NC despite the inaccurate reporting had record years in tourism and industry gain. It was Charlotte that suffered, not NC losing the ACC Championship Games and NBA All-Star game. I will say the NCAA ban probably hurt some other cities but all those events are returning have NC went back to pre-existing law of HB2. Once again, why is NC still on CA ban list? Why would Texas believe if they change the law, CA will re-instate the travel?

Well, this is actually something the Federal government has a completely legitimate point in getting involved in.

Remember that little thing about interstate commerce?

That's what this is about.

All this stupidity about discrimination is just that, stupidity.
07-05-2017 10:40 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #53
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-04-2017 02:32 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  California is not Your Fathers California today, it's an out of control mess that only the very wealthy can make it. Too many restrictions on Their own residents ,why worry about what other states do. As far as Gay rights in Kentucky and the Califorina travel ban, Louisville has been one of the top 5 most leanent and friendlist cities in America for Gays. Large Gay populated neighborhoods co exist in Louisvilles Highlands, Cresent Hill and Cliffton areas. Lexington and other cities have friendly areas. This California travel ban is all about states that voted Republican. Nothing more.

Yeah.......tell that to all the farmers in California.

You know, there are cities in California not named San Francisco or San (X).
07-05-2017 10:42 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #54
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:36 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 08:03 AM)westwolf Wrote:  California is a PC swamp.

Lol, OT but man people hate California so much!

But they don't hate their fresh organic fruits, Tesla's, Intel processors, iPhones, MacBooks, Google, Ghirardelli chocolate, and everything else amazing that comes from China....

Sometimes I really wish people could get their wish and California could just succeed for one year. It would be an absolute disaster to the US economy.

Fixed it for you...

Do the Chinese do the R&D? And since when did Ghiradelli start coming from China?

Listen I have lived in Alabama and California for extended periods of time. California's economy is based on farming and brilliant tech minds. If there were no California the US would not have the tech industry it has.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2017 10:46 AM by TrojanCampaign.)
07-05-2017 10:44 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #55
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:36 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 08:03 AM)westwolf Wrote:  California is a PC swamp.

Lol, OT but man people hate California so much!

But they don't hate their fresh organic fruits, Tesla's, Intel processors, iPhones, MacBooks, Google, Ghirardelli chocolate, and everything else amazing that comes from China....

Sometimes I really wish people could get their wish and California could just succeed for one year. It would be an absolute disaster to the US economy.

Fixed it for you...

Do the Chinese do the R&D?

Y'all still researching organic fruit and chocolate out there?

This is fun!
07-05-2017 10:45 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #56
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:45 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:36 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 08:03 AM)westwolf Wrote:  California is a PC swamp.

Lol, OT but man people hate California so much!

But they don't hate their fresh organic fruits, Tesla's, Intel processors, iPhones, MacBooks, Google, Ghirardelli chocolate, and everything else amazing that comes from China....

Sometimes I really wish people could get their wish and California could just succeed for one year. It would be an absolute disaster to the US economy.

Fixed it for you...

Do the Chinese do the R&D?

Y'all still researching organic fruit and chocolate out there?

This is fun!

04-bow

Actually going to go along with the sarcasm here lol. There is a lot of research being done on organic fruits.......
07-05-2017 10:47 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #57
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:47 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:45 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:36 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Lol, OT but man people hate California so much!

But they don't hate their fresh organic fruits, Tesla's, Intel processors, iPhones, MacBooks, Google, Ghirardelli chocolate, and everything else amazing that comes from China....

Sometimes I really wish people could get their wish and California could just succeed for one year. It would be an absolute disaster to the US economy.

Fixed it for you...

Do the Chinese do the R&D?

Y'all still researching organic fruit and chocolate out there?

This is fun!

04-bow

Actually going to go along with the sarcasm here lol. There is a lot of research being done on organic fruits.......

I am of course just ******* with you.

04-cheers
07-05-2017 10:50 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #58
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:50 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:47 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:45 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Fixed it for you...

Do the Chinese do the R&D?

Y'all still researching organic fruit and chocolate out there?

This is fun!

04-bow

Actually going to go along with the sarcasm here lol. There is a lot of research being done on organic fruits.......

I am of course just ******* with you.

04-cheers

Lmao, I know. I'm not even a real Californian anymore. I live in Huntsville....
07-05-2017 10:56 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #59
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:56 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:50 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:47 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:45 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 10:44 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Do the Chinese do the R&D?

Y'all still researching organic fruit and chocolate out there?

This is fun!

04-bow

Actually going to go along with the sarcasm here lol. There is a lot of research being done on organic fruits.......

I am of course just ******* with you.

04-cheers

Lmao, I know. I'm not even a real Californian anymore. I live in Huntsville....

Well, that's about as close as it gets to being a Californian other than being from Florence.
07-05-2017 10:57 AM
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bearcat65 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-05-2017 10:10 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 08:21 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 08:01 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 12:56 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like this could really impact California team participation in NCAA championships and bowl games, many of which are held in "banned" states. E.g., the 2018 Final Four is in San Antonio. I presume if UCLA advances that far, they won't be able to participate?

And what about the PAC tie-ins with bowls in Texas, or playing in the Cotton Bowl there? Presumably, no dice.

And also there would seem to be negative recruiting implications. Can't send coaches or staff to certain states to recruit players.


FCS Championship in Frisco, Texas. The three California schools, if they go into the playoffs and get to that point will be in a pickle as well.

Potentially, the California teams would have to forfeit. It would be the end of either championships in certain states, or the end of the NCAA.

I doubt it's the end of the NCAA and I doubt the California state government is going to risk the backlash they would be sure to receive if one of their state schools were to be forced to forfeit the opportunity to play in a major bowl or national championship game due to it being played in a state on their ban list. If that occurs then hopefully networks have the intestinal fortitude to either sue them or strip them of P5 status. If either occurs then adjustments to the ban would most likely be made.

Sue them? For what? Obeying California state law? The state of California OWNS the Athletic Department at UCLA and SDSU. Its their property and they can do with it what they wish.

Who would really kick up sand if say Cal had to forfeit a bowl game? Sure there'd be some alumni who are upset (and they'd be loud), but its Cal....I think you overstate how important FBS football is to the average Californian or the average Cal student.

Who would take away P5 status for UCLA and Cal? The networks? Do you think the Pac12 would expel them for that? I promise you all hell would break lose at pretty much EVERY Pac12 institution (from significant portions of their own student bodies and alumni) if they tried that.

And the NCAA isn't going impose sanctions on schools for refusing to subject their students and fans to discrimination in other states.

So no, if California wants to do this, and other states want to join them, then there's little that can be done to change it.

If USC makes it to the play off and doesn't go because they would play in a banned state wouldn't that give the networks grounds for a lawsuit? To be honest I don't know but I would think they would.
07-05-2017 11:00 AM
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