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California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #1
California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/06...l-ban.html

Keep this non-political.

Looks like the way the ban has been mooted is as follows

1) Coaches not being paid by taxpayers are exempt.
2) Does NOT cover already scheduled games
3) Does cover any future scheduled games

This could cause some chaos.

States covered under the California ban

Texas, South Dakota, Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Tennessee. It is possible that Ohio will be added. It is possible that Idaho has some laws that could cause the AGs order to apply. That would complicate things a LOT more.

California D1 schools covered by the order.

Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State (MWC). California, UCLA (Pac 12). UC-Davis, UCSD, Cal Poly, UC-Irvine, Long Beach, Cal State Fullerton, Cal State Northridge (Big West). Cal State Sacramento (Big Sky).

And a potential huge problem for one school. Cal State Bakersfield (WAC).

----

If the AG order is held up, then the ramifications are pretty interesting

Pac 12 - no member institutions are covered by the ban and none are likely to be covered by it. But it does mean that any UT or Oklahoma to the Pac discussions are moot at this point. As well as any discussion of a raid by the Big XII into California (unlikely anyway)

MWC - no member institutions covered by the ban. But it means that any thoughts that UTEP might have of moving back are probably dead at this point. And any thoughts of an AAC raid on SDSU, however unlikely, aren't happening either

Big Sky and Big West, no member institutions covered by the ban.

The West Coast Conference has no public schools. Exempt.

---

But Cal State - Bakersfield and the WAC have a potential problem. UT-RGV is also a WAC member. Two Texas schools also participate in the WAC as affiliate members in men's soccer

---

Interesting to see how this will play out. Or if any other states will follow California and the other states that have rules like this.

My guess is that this will be sorted out in about 5 years or so. But not before then.

Is this a huge glass of ice water on a bunch of realignment scenarios?
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:20 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 08:17 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #2
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Im curious how thats not a religious ban. My guess is it will be short lived as it will probably have trouble once it reaches the courts. Somebody is going to challenge it. The Texas law California seems to object to is probably short lived as well for the same reason. Until then, Cali schools will have to schedule carefully. If I were a California public school----Id schedule a crap load of games right now before other states get on the list. lol....Those California schools may end just playing one another for a while the way things are going.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:34 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-03-2017 08:28 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im curious how thats not a religious ban. My guess is it will be short lived as it will probably have trouble once it reaches the courts. Somebody is going to challenge it. Until then, Cali schools will have to schedule carefully. Id also schedule a crap load of games now before other states get on the list.

Its not a religious ban. It simply states that California's taxpayers will not enter into contracts that will involve travel to states where certain people face discrimination. Under the AG ruling, its perfectly legal for UCLA to schedule a game at Liberty, but not legal for them to schedule a game at Rice.

I think this one holds up. Basically the alternative is to say...Alabama can mandate or allow discrimination and California must use taxpayer funds to send its own citizens there to face that discrimination. And that its taxpayer owned institutions must contract to send its citizens where they will face discrimination. Basically the argument of someone challenging the AG ruling is this, not only can Texas discriminate against its own citizens, but California would be compelled to use taxpayer funds to export its own citizens there to face that discrimination.

And I'd imagine that the Circuit Court that gets the case will be the liberal circuit out West. So give it a couple of years for the courts to go through that.

Its already in effect btw. At least for Texas.

---

We shall see. I'm sure someone will sue. In the meantime, I think that a huge bucket of ice water has been thrown on a lot of realignment scenarios for the time being. And the WAC has a potential problem.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:46 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 08:34 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #4
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im curious how thats not a religious ban. My guess is it will be short lived as it will probably have trouble once it reaches the courts. Somebody is going to challenge it. Until then, Cali schools will have to schedule carefully. Id also schedule a crap load of games now before other states get on the list.

Its not a religious ban. It simply states that California's taxpayers will not enter into contracts that will involve travel to states where certain people face discrimination.

I think this one holds up. Basically the alternative is to say...Alabama can mandate or allow discrimination and California must use taxpayer funds to send its own citizens there to face that discrimination. And that its taxpayer owned institutions must contract to send its citizens where they will face discrimination.

And I'd imagine that the Circuit Court that gets the case will be the liberal circuit out West

Its already in effect btw. At least for Texas.

Dont know about all of them, but I think some of the objectionable laws are based on free exercise of religion. FWIW---I have a feeling the Texas law Cali has an issue with is going to get overturned by the courts. I dont see how its going to survive a challenge---which hopefully will get Texas off that ban list. Otherwise, it could definitely affect scheduling in the future.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:43 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-03-2017 08:40 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #5
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington
07-03-2017 08:54 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #6
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Kentucky all could be put under this ban as well.

PAC 12 Arizona, Arizona State and Utah may have to find a new home.

MWC, Utah State, Wyoming and Boise State may have to find a new home.

Big Sky, Sacramento State, Cal-Davis and Cal. Poly all need to find new homes.

WAC, Utah Valley, UMKC, UTRGV will have to find a new home.

Humboldt State will be hard it as well. Since there are some slim pickings to play football on the West Coast. This could shake up some P5 conferences big time. Big 12 could grab the 3 PAC 12 schools, BYU, Cincinnati and Memphis.

PAC 12 may have to look at San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, UNR, New Mexico, Colorado State and Hawaii.

Cal-Davis, Cal. Poly, Sacramento State, Humboldt State, Portland State, New Mexico State and Northern Colorado and Eastern Washington as possible replacements.

WAC could backfill with Azusa Pacific, Central Washington, Western Washington, Colorado Mesa, Western Oregon and some others.

Big Sky could refill from RMAC and GNAC schools.
07-03-2017 08:54 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #7
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.
07-03-2017 08:55 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #8
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.

Other states might also join the several states that have these bans. NY has a ban as well.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:01 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 09:00 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Kentucky all could be put under this ban as well.

PAC 12 Arizona, Arizona State and Utah may have to find a new home.

MWC, Utah State, Wyoming and Boise State may have to find a new home.

Big Sky, Sacramento State, Cal-Davis and Cal. Poly all need to find new homes.

WAC, Utah Valley, UMKC, UTRGV will have to find a new home.

Humboldt State will be hard it as well. Since there are some slim pickings to play football on the West Coast. This could shake up some P5 conferences big time. Big 12 could grab the 3 PAC 12 schools, BYU, Cincinnati and Memphis.

PAC 12 may have to look at San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, UNR, New Mexico, Colorado State and Hawaii.

Cal-Davis, Cal. Poly, Sacramento State, Humboldt State, Portland State, New Mexico State and Northern Colorado and Eastern Washington as possible replacements.

WAC could backfill with Azusa Pacific, Central Washington, Western Washington, Colorado Mesa, Western Oregon and some others.

Big Sky could refill from RMAC and GNAC schools.

Utah is oddly probably safe. Idaho probably HAS laws subject to the ban at some point. Kentucky is already on the list. Arizona is safe for now, and will probably remain safe. Remember that Arizona cannot afford to lose much of its' California convention business. This is more than football.

For right now, I don't see ANY Pac 12 state, including Utah going the Mississippi/Texas route. The MWC seems safe as well.

I think the impact of this, at least at the D1 level, is to tamp down on realignment, rather than accelerate it.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:07 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 09:04 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #10
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 09:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.

Other states might also join the several states that have these bans. NY has a ban as well.

Other states are "counter banning". I think the whole thing will end up not being very productive for anyone.

After thinking about it, Im not so sure its going to really affect school athletics. Money is fungible. Fly to Texas on the part of the athletic budget that is donated. Use state funds for whatever you used to use donated athletic funds for. Basically, you only have to break out the cost to fly state employees----players arent employees. So, this is really just about the travel costs for the coaches and support staff. A little swapping of funds can probably fix the problem. That kind of stuff happens all the time to stay in compliance with regulations. You'll probably have to be careful to keep certain funds separate---but Im sure they have accountants for that.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:09 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-03-2017 09:04 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 09:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 09:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.

Other states might also join the several states that have these bans. NY has a ban as well.

Other states are "counter banning". I think the whole thing will end up not being very productive for anyone.

After thinking about it, Im not so sure its going to really affect school athletics. Money is fungible. Fly to Texas on the part of the athletic budget that is donated. Basically, you only have to break out the cost to fly state employees----players arent employees. Use state funds for whatever you used to use donated athletic funds for. That kind of swapping happens all the time to stay in compliance with regulations. You'll probably have to be careful to keep certain funds separate---but Im sure they have accountants for that.

Counter banning is certainly possible, but I just think that will simply amplify the chaos. And either way, seeing as California has banned the contracts anyway, its kind of pointless. A counter ban already kind of exists anyway. Auburn can't schedule San Jose anyway because SJSU can't schedule them.

Also remember that players are not state employees, but the state still cannot pay for their travel.

But how do you get around the prohibition on entering into contracts for games?
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:13 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 09:09 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #12
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 09:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 09:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 09:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.

Other states might also join the several states that have these bans. NY has a ban as well.

Other states are "counter banning". I think the whole thing will end up not being very productive for anyone.

After thinking about it, Im not so sure its going to really affect school athletics. Money is fungible. Fly to Texas on the part of the athletic budget that is donated. Basically, you only have to break out the cost to fly state employees----players arent employees. Use state funds for whatever you used to use donated athletic funds for. That kind of swapping happens all the time to stay in compliance with regulations. You'll probably have to be careful to keep certain funds separate---but Im sure they have accountants for that.

But how do you get around the prohibition on entering into contracts for games?

Games or contracts arent actually prohibited. Whats is prohibited is the state paying for travel of state employees to banned states. Using donated money for travel to those states is not prohibited. You could actually write the game contract so the opponent expressly pays for the California team's travel, and allow other areas of the contract to offset the travel concession to the California school. The more I think about it, I suspect this will represent a red tape pain in the butt for California AD's---but it wont really be any real hindrance to future scheduling.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:25 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-03-2017 09:11 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #13
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
NC officially repealed HB2 and put the law back to pre-existing prior to HB2. However, Ca still kept the ban in place which really is ridiculious because NC towns have never had the power to make the ordinance like Charlotte did in the first place. One of the most frustrating thing about the poor coverage of HB2 by the national media. I find it hypocritical they are ok with Cal playing at NC but will not let teams play in NC since they law same as it was under that contract.
07-03-2017 09:14 PM
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templefootballfan Online
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
techanally wouldn't conf games already be considered sch
when your in a conf, you would be impliead by sch.
just waiting for date
07-03-2017 09:25 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Bakersfield's WAC membership makes UTRGV travel grandfathered.

It may also grandfatherPac-12 and MWC schools if the conference adds Texas schools, since they are contractually bound to honor the existing conference agreement. What it may impact is OOC games.

I await to see the SCOTUS rule on this, especially with respect to article IV. The 9th circuit may uphold it, but it wont end there.
07-03-2017 09:51 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
If other Liberal states follow suit like California? The AAC, ACC, Big 12, Big 10, MAC and C-USA could be impacted by this.
Big Sky and some of the other FCS schools could be hit.
The non-football schools at D1 could suffer somewhat.
It could trickle down to D2 and all the way down to NJCAA effect.
The California JCs do not have the problem since they only play schools in their state anyways. This could effect the Arizona schools in the JC level.
07-03-2017 10:40 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #17
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Seems like this could really impact California team participation in NCAA championships and bowl games, many of which are held in "banned" states. E.g., the 2018 Final Four is in San Antonio. I presume if UCLA advances that far, they won't be able to participate?

And what about the PAC tie-ins with bowls in Texas, or playing in the Cotton Bowl there? Presumably, no dice.

And also there would seem to be negative recruiting implications. Can't send coaches or staff to certain states to recruit players.
07-03-2017 10:44 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like this could really impact California team participation in NCAA championships and bowl games, many of which are held in "banned" states. E.g., the 2018 Final Four is in San Antonio. I presume if UCLA advances that far, they won't be able to participate?

And what about the PAC tie-ins with bowls in Texas, or playing in the Cotton Bowl there? Presumably, no dice.

And also there would seem to be negative recruiting implications. Can't send coaches or staff to certain states to recruit players.


FCS Championship in Frisco, Texas. The three California schools, if they go into the playoffs and get to that point will be in a pickle as well.
07-04-2017 12:56 AM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Thupis California law is so hypocritical in that the state has deals with places like Saudi Arabia and other countries with laws a lot more oppressive than the states.

Also some blue states may turn red and vice versa so deals made now might look good, but in a few years could be opposite,

This is just more stupidity coming from Cali.


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07-04-2017 02:14 AM
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/06...l-ban.html

Keep this non-political.

Looks like the way the ban has been mooted is as follows

1) Coaches not being paid by taxpayers are exempt.
2) Does NOT cover already scheduled games
3) Does cover any future scheduled games

This could cause some chaos.

States covered under the California ban

Texas, South Dakota, Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Tennessee. It is possible that Ohio will be added. It is possible that Idaho has some laws that could cause the AGs order to apply. That would complicate things a LOT more.

California D1 schools covered by the order.

Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State (MWC). California, UCLA (Pac 12). UC-Davis, UCSD, Cal Poly, UC-Irvine, Long Beach, Cal State Fullerton, Cal State Northridge (Big West). Cal State Sacramento (Big Sky).

And a potential huge problem for one school. Cal State Bakersfield (WAC).

----

If the AG order is held up, then the ramifications are pretty interesting

Pac 12 - no member institutions are covered by the ban and none are likely to be covered by it. But it does mean that any UT or Oklahoma to the Pac discussions are moot at this point. As well as any discussion of a raid by the Big XII into California (unlikely anyway)

MWC - no member institutions covered by the ban. But it means that any thoughts that UTEP might have of moving back are probably dead at this point. And any thoughts of an AAC raid on SDSU, however unlikely, aren't happening either

Big Sky and Big West, no member institutions covered by the ban.

The West Coast Conference has no public schools. Exempt.

---

But Cal State - Bakersfield and the WAC have a potential problem. UT-RGV is also a WAC member. Two Texas schools also participate in the WAC as affiliate members in men's soccer

---

Interesting to see how this will play out. Or if any other states will follow California and the other states that have rules like this.

My guess is that this will be sorted out in about 5 years or so. But not before then.

Is this a huge glass of ice water on a bunch of realignment scenarios?

A. Everything you post here is political so it's impossible to keep this thread non political.
B. California is flat broke and won't ever really implement this. Like everything, they will make "exceptions" so it will turn out to be nothing but saber rattling per usual.
C. Sports is the one common ground all political spectrums can unite behind and using it to try and influence others to believe what you believe, SJW style, is flat out sickening and pathetic.
07-04-2017 05:46 AM
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