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Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Which is illegal. 90% of most university endowments are restricted, which means that if you donated it to endow a chair in French lit, that is what it has to go for. The few universities that have tried to screw around with endowed funds have been slapped down in court.
 
07-02-2017 11:01 AM
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KCat Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Per Kate Murphy and the Enquirer applications are down and fewer foreign students have indicating they will be coming in the fall.... They blame it all on Trump.

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They all blame it on Trump... Has Kate Murphy talked to all these students,,, Fake News.... from the PC Enquirer...
 
07-02-2017 11:14 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:20 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:28 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:27 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  In National Geographic style:

"This kills the Bearcat."

If a move were made that makes us unable to subsidize athletics before we are back in a P5 conference, it will be a permanent relegation to sub-MAC levels. I'm sure our friends in Columbus will be huge supporters of this idea, under the guise of "caring about Ohio students."

Yep. It's a proposal to effectively do away with all non-P5 athletic programs.

I would agree and even take it one step further... depending on how restrictive they want to be, this could even harm almost any P5 school (except the several that actually make a profit on athletics).
No. Very few P5 programs subsidize with student fees more than 10% or so. Rutgers is the only one who comes to mind immediately.

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07-02-2017 08:57 PM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"

Actually, the answer is for the state to give their higher education money directly to Ohio students to use where they wish instead of giving the money directly to universities. Would save the state a gob of cash and make school more affordable for students.
 
07-03-2017 10:23 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-03-2017 10:23 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"

Actually, the answer is for the state to give their higher education money directly to Ohio students to use where they wish instead of giving the money directly to universities. Would save the state a gob of cash and make school more affordable for students.

Agreed, (as long as the kid is willing to stay in-state - no sense in Ohio spending money to boost the economy of college towns in other states).

But it will never happen because then the students will have the power over the universities, rather than government bureaucrats.
 
07-05-2017 12:24 AM
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Not Duane Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-02-2017 08:57 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:20 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:28 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:27 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  In National Geographic style:

"This kills the Bearcat."

If a move were made that makes us unable to subsidize athletics before we are back in a P5 conference, it will be a permanent relegation to sub-MAC levels. I'm sure our friends in Columbus will be huge supporters of this idea, under the guise of "caring about Ohio students."

Yep. It's a proposal to effectively do away with all non-P5 athletic programs.

I would agree and even take it one step further... depending on how restrictive they want to be, this could even harm almost any P5 school (except the several that actually make a profit on athletics).
No. Very few P5 programs subsidize with student fees more than 10% or so. Rutgers is the only one who comes to mind immediately.

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This will impact FB much more than MBB...non power 5's can still compete even with these type of restrictions in MBB.

Something to think about.
 
07-05-2017 05:55 AM
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Fubar Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

Exactly. It's not like this hasn't been studied. But the gravy train is strong.
 
07-06-2017 08:16 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:25 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

I don't necessarily disagree with you personally, but I'm trying to see the other side of this...

Tuition would drop, yes. And so would the opportunities available to the lower middle class. Everyone doesn't want to go to trade school, community colleges rarely offer the kind of degree that leads to a well paying(but also, intellectually/emotionally satisfying job). Of course, nobody is guaranteed their own happiness in life, but we also need to weigh the reality of human nature. People aren't going to accept being forced into a permanent underclass gracefully.
Further, I'm not sure how true that argument is. How much federal and state money is wasted on things entirely unrelated to education?
Why not just dissolve college athletics entirely? Sure some rednecks who probably never attended college anyway might throw a tantrum, but in the end, what does it really change?

If these state institutions want to have the kind of autonomy we give private businesses, then let them give up their non-profit status altogether and pay a retroactive bill on all those years of endowments they enjoyed tax free. We can regard them as what they are anyway, for profit entities.
Of course, what academic capital they ever had would drop like a rock, but hey, what do they care so long as they got football, right?! 03-lmfao



Ah, probably easier just to keep that status quo. Dark as that is...

You are forcing people into a permanent underclass by having them attend college, accumulate 60k in debt in order to get a job that has no chance of earning what is necessary to pay that debt off.
 
07-06-2017 08:19 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Just go get a welding apprenticeship. You'll have a boat long before anyone enrolling to campus this fall.
 
07-06-2017 08:25 AM
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Fubar Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 11:31 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 11:10 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 10:39 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 07:31 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Yikes. UC carries about $1.2 billion in debt on about a $1.2 billion annual budget.

Paying about $80 million a year in debt servicing.

Yes a lot of that comes capital projects building new buildings. State universities really need to totally rethink how they do this.

And the greater part of that debt load is bonded...which means it is financed and secured debt.

It's not like the University has been running around like a drunken student, running up the credit card with no clue how to pay it off.

And UC has an endowment of 1.166 billion.

Having a huge credit card bill is not a big deal if you have enough money in your checking account/investment holdings to pay for it. You just have to be smart enough to not pay more in interest on your debt then you are earning on your investments.

Most of the endowment is restricted. It's irrelevant when discussing school debt.
 
07-06-2017 08:28 AM
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 03:37 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:12 PM)#41 Wrote:  As much as I'm a sports fan, this would be a good thing.

It's immoral to force students there to learn and get an education to subsidize athletics with so-called "activity fees" -- especially when most of them are borrowing into massive debt just to attend.

Students have a free choice in which school they attend. If they do not believe college athletics adds to the college experience - they do not have to attend a school that does. IMO UC athletics were a huge part of my college experience. Here in Cleveland Cleveland State is a hollow shell of UC offers our student body.

If someone does not like it - go somewhere else. Oh how I hate the whining.

That's like saying if you don't like the US stop whining and trying to make it better by voting and affecting change, instead just move to a different country. Perhaps a better solution instead of false choice would be economically driven decisions to make college more affordable.
 
07-06-2017 08:34 AM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"

Or just only go for degrees you can afford. My daughter just graduated in engineering. Between going to a state school and a program with a good paying co-op program, she still has $4,000 left over from the $20,000 we spotted her (two summers of factory work helped too).
 
07-06-2017 08:50 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-06-2017 08:50 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"

Or just only go for degrees you can afford. My daughter just graduated in engineering. Between going to a state school and a program with a good paying co-op program, she still has $4,000 left over from the $20,000 we spotted her (two summers of factory work helped too).

Unfortunately your daughter's experience is the exception. Too many kids get stuck trying to cover college expenses with minimum wage summer jobs which is a losing battle. Most majors don't offer any co-op opportunities either.

Since I have a college kid working her butt off the summer do you mind me asking how much your daughter's factory work paid? Mine is waiting tables at a breakfast place mornings since it leaves her afternoons free for her research project on campus. She's easily making at least 2x what her friends are getting at Starbucks or Target this summer.
 
07-06-2017 09:37 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-06-2017 08:50 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"

Or just only go for degrees you can afford. My daughter just graduated in engineering. Between going to a state school and a program with a good paying co-op program, she still has $4,000 left over from the $20,000 we spotted her (two summers of factory work helped too).

I've often wondered why the tuition cost is the same for an engineering degree as it is an English degree. The total credits might be the same, but they're paying the engineering professor way more than the English one, and the facilities are quite different. Why isn't the English degree cheaper?
 
07-06-2017 09:58 AM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-06-2017 09:37 AM)Bearcat1010 Wrote:  Since I have a college kid working her butt off the summer do you mind me asking how much your daughter's factory work paid? Mine is waiting tables at a breakfast place mornings since it leaves her afternoons free for her research project on campus. She's easily making at least 2x what her friends are getting at Starbucks or Target this summer.

I think it was about $9/hour, but she was getting 40-45 hours per week.

Both my daughters hated it because they were so tired after work they did little else for the summer. But if you are trying to pay for a college degree, you don't get 3-4 months of vacation each summer.
 
07-06-2017 10:11 AM
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Bearcat1010 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-06-2017 10:11 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:37 AM)Bearcat1010 Wrote:  Since I have a college kid working her butt off the summer do you mind me asking how much your daughter's factory work paid? Mine is waiting tables at a breakfast place mornings since it leaves her afternoons free for her research project on campus. She's easily making at least 2x what her friends are getting at Starbucks or Target this summer.

I think it was about $9/hour, but she was getting 40-45 hours per week.

Both my daughters hated it because they were so tired after work they did little else for the summer. But if you are trying to pay for a college degree, you don't get 3-4 months of vacation each summer.

Working full time and being too tired to go out after work is a big part of their education sometimes. Busting your hump for for the summer makes getting that engineering degree even more appealing.
 
07-06-2017 10:17 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-06-2017 08:50 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"

Or just only go for degrees you can afford. My daughter just graduated in engineering. Between going to a state school and a program with a good paying co-op program, she still has $4,000 left over from the $20,000 we spotted her (two summers of factory work helped too).


The reality is that we can't have an entire work force of nothing but engineers or other degrees that offer co-ops. A 10/hour job (with no taxes or other expenses) will leave you with 5,200 after 13 weeks. 1 year at UC costs 11,000 in tuition alone. It's not feasible to pay for college based off of a summer job or a part time job during school.
 
07-06-2017 12:28 PM
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Bearcat1010 Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(07-06-2017 12:28 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:50 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 06:11 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"

Or just only go for degrees you can afford. My daughter just graduated in engineering. Between going to a state school and a program with a good paying co-op program, she still has $4,000 left over from the $20,000 we spotted her (two summers of factory work helped too).


The reality is that we can't have an entire work force of nothing but engineers or other degrees that offer co-ops. A 10/hour job (with no taxes or other expenses) will leave you with 5,200 after 13 weeks. 1 year at UC costs 11,000 in tuition alone. It's not feasible to pay for college based off of a summer job or a part time job during school.

The idea that you can work to pay your way through school is not often true. They are cases where kids can co-op and find solid summer employment to combine with scholarships but that is not the norm.

When I started school (1987... so old...) tuition was ~$600 and minimum wage was $3.25 (woo hoo!). Ignoring the details it took 550 hours to pay each years tuition. Now at $11k per year and $10/hr a student has to work 1,100 hours - twice as much to pay tuition.

Sending this back to the main topic - this is why some people have problems with the school founding the athletic department with student fees.
 
07-06-2017 12:59 PM
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