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Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
From a Dispatch article on the state higher ed budget.

Quote:Plus, the budget calls on the state chancellor to investigate all higher education fees charged to students and gives him the power to block a fee he does not determine to be in the best interest of students. Universities could appeal that decision to the state Controlling Board, a bipartisan legislative spending oversight panel.
 
06-29-2017 12:11 PM
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#41 Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
As much as I'm a sports fan, this would be a good thing.

It's immoral to force students there to learn and get an education to subsidize athletics with so-called "activity fees" -- especially when most of them are borrowing into massive debt just to attend.
 
06-29-2017 02:12 PM
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TubaCat Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
In National Geographic style:

"This kills the Bearcat."

If a move were made that makes us unable to subsidize athletics before we are back in a P5 conference, it will be a permanent relegation to sub-MAC levels. I'm sure our friends in Columbus will be huge supporters of this idea, under the guise of "caring about Ohio students."
 
06-29-2017 02:27 PM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 02:27 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  In National Geographic style:

"This kills the Bearcat."

If a move were made that makes us unable to subsidize athletics before we are back in a P5 conference, it will be a permanent relegation to sub-MAC levels. I'm sure our friends in Columbus will be huge supporters of this idea, under the guise of "caring about Ohio students."

Yep. It's a proposal to effectively do away with all non-P5 athletic programs.
 
06-29-2017 02:28 PM
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JPBearcat3 Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
While I understand the proposal - and agree with the principles - UC athletics does QUITE a bit of marketing for the university as a whole. You can make a fairly easy argument that some of those student subsidies are going towards the marketing of the university - a mission that aligns with what student fees should be going to.

Now as to the amount of those student fees, well that's up for debate (obviously).

But it's not as if subsidizing UC athletics, or any college's athletics, isn't a benefit to the university as a whole.
 
06-29-2017 02:41 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Interesting. I have heard of a couple states putting a cap on the amount to subsidize athletics, but I am not aware of taking it away completely. For instance, last year Georgia legislated that no more than 65-85% of the schools athletic budgets come from student fees. Virginia has done similarly although their mark is 70%.

I could see Ohio doing something similarly. If this were to pass UC would be OK, as would the MAC schools. Schools like Wright State, Cleveland State and Youngstown State on the other hand are going to be in trouble (WSU already is). Subsidies makes up 75-80+ percentage of their athletic budget.
 
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2017 02:51 PM by CliftonAve.)
06-29-2017 02:50 PM
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Bearcat1010 Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
I know students pay a general fee as well as a campus life fee. I found the current breakdown of the general fee distribution but does anyone know how the campus life fees are distributed?

The general fee breakdown is interesting.
 
06-29-2017 03:05 PM
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Recluse1 Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.
 
06-29-2017 03:08 PM
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QSECOFR Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.
 
06-29-2017 03:10 PM
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TubaCat Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 02:28 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:27 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  In National Geographic style:

"This kills the Bearcat."

If a move were made that makes us unable to subsidize athletics before we are back in a P5 conference, it will be a permanent relegation to sub-MAC levels. I'm sure our friends in Columbus will be huge supporters of this idea, under the guise of "caring about Ohio students."

Yep. It's a proposal to effectively do away with all non-P5 athletic programs.

I would agree and even take it one step further... depending on how restrictive they want to be, this could even harm almost any P5 school (except the several that actually make a profit on athletics).
 
06-29-2017 03:20 PM
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Recluse1 Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

I don't necessarily disagree with you personally, but I'm trying to see the other side of this...

Tuition would drop, yes. And so would the opportunities available to the lower middle class. Everyone doesn't want to go to trade school, community colleges rarely offer the kind of degree that leads to a well paying(but also, intellectually/emotionally satisfying job). Of course, nobody is guaranteed their own happiness in life, but we also need to weigh the reality of human nature. People aren't going to accept being forced into a permanent underclass gracefully.
Further, I'm not sure how true that argument is. How much federal and state money is wasted on things entirely unrelated to education?
Why not just dissolve college athletics entirely? Sure some rednecks who probably never attended college anyway might throw a tantrum, but in the end, what does it really change?

If these state institutions want to have the kind of autonomy we give private businesses, then let them give up their non-profit status altogether and pay a retroactive bill on all those years of endowments they enjoyed tax free. We can regard them as what they are anyway, for profit entities.
Of course, what academic capital they ever had would drop like a rock, but hey, what do they care so long as they got football, right?! 03-lmfao



Ah, probably easier just to keep that status quo. Dark as that is...
 
06-29-2017 03:25 PM
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Cat_Litter Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

How so? How is tuition based on outstanding loan balances when the loans are made by banks, not the university. Just curious.
 
06-29-2017 03:27 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:20 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:28 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:27 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  In National Geographic style:

"This kills the Bearcat."

If a move were made that makes us unable to subsidize athletics before we are back in a P5 conference, it will be a permanent relegation to sub-MAC levels. I'm sure our friends in Columbus will be huge supporters of this idea, under the guise of "caring about Ohio students."

Yep. It's a proposal to effectively do away with all non-P5 athletic programs.

I would agree and even take it one step further... depending on how restrictive they want to be, this could even harm almost any P5 school (except the several that actually make a profit on athletics).

The last time I checked, the only ones whose athletic budget had a high percentage of subsidies from student fees were Rutgers and Maryland. Given the windfall they have fallen into with the B10 (soon to be distributing over $50M per team/year) they will soon fall off the list.
 
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2017 03:29 PM by CliftonAve.)
06-29-2017 03:27 PM
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:27 PM)Cat_Litter Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

How so? How is tuition based on outstanding loan balances when the loans are made by banks, not the university. Just curious.

Universities have no incentive to compete on price because every student has unlimited borrowing power (thanks to the nondischargability of student loan debt in bankruptcy). They can charge whatever they want and expect the student to borrow more in order to pay, and the banks are happy to give more money because the loans are virtually risk-free for them.

If you ended student loans, suddenly only a very small part of society would be able to afford college. Universities would have to make their product more affordable or face a shortage of students.
 
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2017 03:32 PM by #41.)
06-29-2017 03:31 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:31 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:27 PM)Cat_Litter Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

How so? How is tuition based on outstanding loan balances when the loans are made by banks, not the university. Just curious.

Universities have no incentive to compete on price because every student has unlimited borrowing power (thanks to the nondischargability of student loan debt in bankruptcy). They can charge whatever they want and expect the student to borrow more in order to pay, and the banks are happy to give more money because the loans are virtually risk-free for them.

If you ended student loans, suddenly only a very small part of society would be able to afford college. Universities would have to make their product more affordable or face a shortage of students.

Yep.

[Image: Thomas-Sowell-quote-on-economics.jpg]
 
06-29-2017 03:34 PM
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 03:27 PM)Cat_Litter Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

How so? How is tuition based on outstanding loan balances when the loans are made by banks, not the university. Just curious.

Easy money for college tuition has driven demand. Thus rising prices.
 
06-29-2017 03:35 PM
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 02:27 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  In National Geographic style:

"This kills the Bearcat."

If a move were made that makes us unable to subsidize athletics before we are back in a P5 conference, it will be a permanent relegation to sub-MAC levels. I'm sure our friends in Columbus will be huge supporters of this idea, under the guise of "caring about Ohio students."

We subsidized when we were in the BE, too. But at a certain point you can't subsidize a $40-50 million dollar athletic budget with close to 45% student fee funding.

See page 36: http://www.uc.edu/content/dam/uc/af/budg...0DRAFT.pdf

I've been saying for a while, this financial arms race has a very limited window before the notes come due in the very near future. Schools like ECU have recently pulled back and their AD ordered every sports program to cut 10% off their annual budget. ECU fans are hating it, but its probably the financially responsible move and the kind of one that a lot of programs in the G5 are going to start looking at unfortunately.
 
06-29-2017 04:00 PM
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Timely article about UCONN stressing about $$ and some details about AAC distributions and UC's BE exit fee distribution that is about to end.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-husk...story.html
 
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06-29-2017 04:28 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
IDK what the intent of this state law is, if there really is any intent to target athletics (losing money).
from 2015, this is a bigger issue than student fees supporting athletics. Article touches on a number of issues.

Total debt outstanding at Ohio public universities
Borrowing at Ohio's 14 public universities more than doubled over the last decade. Most spending was for building construction and renovations.
University 2004 2014
The Ohio State University $814,606,000 $2,605,528,000
Miami University $93,151,622 $641,065,000
Wright State University $16,484,121 $101,957,190
University of Cincinnati $894,596,000 $1,236,000,000
Central State University $2,535,821 $17,781,501
Youngstown State University $13,680,000 $70,710,037
Northeast Ohio Medical University $0 $40,649,167
The University of Akron $204,729,516 $487,101,792
Bowling Green State University $84,400,000 $147,100,000
Ohio University $171,300,000 $332,900,000
The University of Toledo 176,097,000 $332,549,000
Kent State University $279,351,000 $506,455,000
Cleveland State University $54,487,124 $205,581,517
TOTAL $2,805,418,204 $6,725,378,204
SOURCES: Provided on request by universities

Debt of Ohio public universities tops $6.5B
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/debt...qmdLAMzOI/
 
06-30-2017 07:09 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Yikes. UC carries about $1.2 billion in debt on about a $1.2 billion annual budget.

Paying about $80 million a year in debt servicing.
 
06-30-2017 07:31 AM
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