(07-03-2017 02:33 PM)Paul M Wrote:  That's my point, we don't know how big a problem it is and claiming it's 5 million and saying some study proves 5 million is just wrong. Trump made the claim and hasn't prove it. UTSA says some study proves it. Other studies concluded it's zero. I reject that study. He rejects that study. But still thinks another study is "proof". And it only says somewhere between 3 and 5 million. So they are far from nailing it down and proving anything. They made some assumptions that I wouldn't have. That's fine but assumptions again aren't proof. Assumptions are why another study could conclude zero. It's a study. He says studies are proof. Obviously they aren't and I'm unsure why he insists they are. Even after rejecting one.

I in no way was claiming what I did was representative of the true numbers of the problem. Those were obviously just numbers known, not all ineligible votes. He in trying to convince me of the 3 to 5 mill claim linked the VA numbers. I did a quick dirty run with those numbers and just showed him how much farther he has to go.

And as I've conceded several time it may very well be as high as the 3 to 5 million number. Personally, I find that a bit hard to fathom. Pence's commission is a good start at trying to get a true understanding of the problem and finding solutions.

Why does he have to prove his claim. It will either turn out right or wrong. Or are you saying we need a study?

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(07-03-2017 08:23 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Nobody lies more than our president.

Hold my beer. - signed Barack Obama

(07-03-2017 08:23 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Nobody lies more than our president.

Well, when an academic study comes out and says that 3-5mm people may have voted illegally, and the president refers to it and the left calls that 'lying', then it becomes easy to make that claim.

(07-04-2017 07:45 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 08:23 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Nobody lies more than our president.

Well, when an academic study comes out and says that 3-5mm people may have voted illegally, and the president refers to it and the left calls that 'lying', then it becomes easy to make that claim.

BINGO! We have a winner!

You forget Ham that the Left ONLY loves scientific studies when it suits them...you know like Climate Change. They forget though, that those scientists are getting subsidized by Liberals, so of course, they're not going to bite the hand that feeds them.

(07-04-2017 07:45 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 08:23 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Nobody lies more than our president.

Well, when an academic study comes out and says that 3-5mm people may have voted illegally, and the president refers to it and the left calls that 'lying', then it becomes easy to make that claim.

Now you are lying. That's not what the study said and Trump was claiming that as the reason he lost the popular vote.

(07-05-2017 06:18 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(07-04-2017 07:45 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 08:23 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Nobody lies more than our president.

Well, when an academic study comes out and says that 3-5mm people may have voted illegally, and the president refers to it and the left calls that 'lying', then it becomes easy to make that claim.

Now you are lying. That's not what the study said and Trump was claiming that as the reason he lost the popular vote.

If you take those votes away he won the popular vote. I know math is hard.

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Can't take any away without knowing how many. The academic study numbers run from zero in one study to "in 2008 as few as 38,000 and as many as 2.8 million" in another. The 5.7 million comes from a think tank, Just Facts. They looked at the academic studies and decided to increase those numbers to "594,000 to 5.7 million". For 2012, Just Facts said, 3.2 million to 5.6 million


It still doesn't matter. Didn't when Hillary clearly toped the popular vote, doesn't now since some doubt has been cast on that.

(07-05-2017 07:57 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Can't take any away without knowing how many. The academic study numbers run from zero in one study to "in 2008 as few as 38,000 and as many as 2.8 million" in another. The 5.7 million comes from a think tank, Just Facts. They looked at the academic studies and decided to increase those numbers to "594,000 to 5.7 million". For 2012, Just Facts said, 3.2 million to 5.6 million


It still doesn't matter. Didn't when Hillary clearly toped the popular vote, doesn't now since some doubt has been cast on that.

Sounds like we need a study to get the number? Will California, Illinois, and New York release their data?

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(07-05-2017 07:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 06:18 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(07-04-2017 07:45 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 08:23 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Nobody lies more than our president.

Well, when an academic study comes out and says that 3-5mm people may have voted illegally, and the president refers to it and the left calls that 'lying', then it becomes easy to make that claim.

Now you are lying. That's not what the study said and Trump was claiming that as the reason he lost the popular vote.

If you take those votes away he won the popular vote. I know math is hard.

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Next try.
1.) The study is about voter registration that need updating.
2.) It's from 2012 not 2016.
3.) He still lost and would have lost the popular vote.

(07-05-2017 08:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:57 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Can't take any away without knowing how many. The academic study numbers run from zero in one study to "in 2008 as few as 38,000 and as many as 2.8 million" in another. The 5.7 million comes from a think tank, Just Facts. They looked at the academic studies and decided to increase those numbers to "594,000 to 5.7 million". For 2012, Just Facts said, 3.2 million to 5.6 million


It still doesn't matter. Didn't when Hillary clearly toped the popular vote, doesn't now since some doubt has been cast on that.

Sounds like we need a study to get the number? Will California, Illinois, and New York release their data?

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Apparently studies, at least when it comes to illegal voting, aren't particularly accurate. NM that some are under the delusion they're proof positive of a 100% accurate picture. Again, nm they can't tell you what that is.

(07-05-2017 08:35 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 08:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:57 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Can't take any away without knowing how many. The academic study numbers run from zero in one study to "in 2008 as few as 38,000 and as many as 2.8 million" in another. The 5.7 million comes from a think tank, Just Facts. They looked at the academic studies and decided to increase those numbers to "594,000 to 5.7 million". For 2012, Just Facts said, 3.2 million to 5.6 million


It still doesn't matter. Didn't when Hillary clearly toped the popular vote, doesn't now since some doubt has been cast on that.

Sounds like we need a study to get the number? Will California, Illinois, and New York release their data?

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Apparently studies, at least when it comes to illegal voting, aren't particularly accurate. NM that some are under the delusion they're proof positive of a 100% accurate picture. Again, nm they can't tell you what that is.

So in other words, while you do not agree with/believe the claim, it was not a lie.

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(07-05-2017 08:38 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 08:35 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 08:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:57 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Can't take any away without knowing how many. The academic study numbers run from zero in one study to "in 2008 as few as 38,000 and as many as 2.8 million" in another. The 5.7 million comes from a think tank, Just Facts. They looked at the academic studies and decided to increase those numbers to "594,000 to 5.7 million". For 2012, Just Facts said, 3.2 million to 5.6 million


It still doesn't matter. Didn't when Hillary clearly toped the popular vote, doesn't now since some doubt has been cast on that.

Sounds like we need a study to get the number? Will California, Illinois, and New York release their data?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Apparently studies, at least when it comes to illegal voting, aren't particularly accurate. NM that some are under the delusion they're proof positive of a 100% accurate picture. Again, nm they can't tell you what that is.

So in other words, while you do not agree with/believe the claim, it was not a lie.

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Pretty simple. Voter fraud happens. We don't know to what extent. There are widely varying studies that themselves conclude wide ranging "may be" numbers.

If someone can nail down a number out of all that great. Share it with us.

Anyone taking studies that say "possibly as few as 38,000 and as many as 2.8 million" as proof of millions need to take remedial read'n.

(07-05-2017 06:18 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(07-04-2017 07:45 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 08:23 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Nobody lies more than our president.

Well, when an academic study comes out and says that 3-5mm people may have voted illegally, and the president refers to it and the left calls that 'lying', then it becomes easy to make that claim.

Now you are lying. That's not what the study said and Trump was claiming that as the reason he lost the popular vote.

All you're doing is proving my point.

It's a liberal who 'reported' the claim. He didn't say that the study or it's interpretation was flawed (as you and Paul are), HE claimed there was no evidence of it whatsoever... which is in fact the ONLY demonstrable lie on here.

Everything else, INCLUDING Trump's comment that this is 'why he lost the popular vote' is an opinion... since there is no way to actually prove or disprove it.

He (perhaps) believes it. There IS evidence that illegal votes were cast. Democrats were out en masse claiming that immigrants would overwhelmingly favor them... and that changing demographics towards hispanics overwhelmingly worked for them... I recall some articles claiming the GOP would be dead for decades as a result... only now to claim that's a 'lie' when Republicans use it against them. I recall comments about how the next time the GOP had a shot, there would be voters who had never seen a white male President.

Was that a 'lie'? Or was it simply a poor/misguided opinion based on problematic 'facts'?


You guys call everything you don't agree with a lie.

That is, in and of itself.... the biggest lie.