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ericsaid Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-27-2017 04:36 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  The evaluators are often not experienced at all and even having playing or coaching experience at the college level does not mean you are a great evaluator of talent. Yes, the 5 stars and 4 stars are easy and you can look at offers. Anything below that is a total crapshoot. You see it every year where kids who are rated two stars or lower will shoot up the charts due to a handful of solid offers. They were already "evaluated" by the "experts" yet they miraculously became more talented overnight.

On the other hand, I have seen 3 and 4 star kids end up going D2 because some goober got caught up in camp stats or hype or just liked a kid.

I don't want transfers reevaluated or added. Never suggested that at all. Those players are simply another piece of the puzzle that cannot be remotely solved by recruiting rankings.

Nearly all of our best players based on college or NFL success over the last 20 years were lightly recruited and low rated.

The best way to become an evaluator: eat, breathe, and sleep football.
06-27-2017 06:49 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-26-2017 11:40 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 06:03 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 01:39 AM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 10:45 PM)doberman1 Wrote:  That list is either outdated or wrong. They have us with 4 committments and as of today we have 11. I realize it is tough keeping up with everybody and kids committ somewhere every day. This list was done about a month ago. Will they update this from time to time?

The list only shows players that have a rating, they actually show you with 8. On the bright side, you could be App State, who has a freaking 24/7 site and still can only get 6/11 players rated.

Why get caught up in what some guy from who knows where that has never seen these kids play thinks about our recruits? I could care less if we finish last in the SB every year in these so-called recruting sites lists. Ask Satterfield what he thinks of these sites. Our team is full of low rated players who have been, or will be, All SB team guys. I put far more trust in what the coaches think than some guy who more than likely has never snapped on a helmet.

Yes because who did you beat of note at all in the FBS? App has beaten teams where the talent disparity is not that huge but has yet to beat anyone where the talent disparity is huge. The last time you played the team in the Sun Belt with the highest rated roster they curbed stomped you as well. Also App was the only team with that low rated talent to share a conference title much less have a winning record. So yes hold on to that coach as long as you can because he is beating the odds for now.

Other things play a part in winning like ummm coaching and development that is how a team that lead the FBS or close to it in rushing for two straight years goes to crap with but talent will always be the #1 factor. It is not exact so people use the mentally lazy few examples of a few players or teams that exceed roster expectations and ignore the 90% of other teams and literally thousands of players that perform extremely close if not dead on where the rankings had them. You will not win consistently nor beat any teams of note with low rated talent the vast majority of the time period. One class or two good or bad classes are not going to kill you or change much it is the totality of your roster. We out recruited P5's in 2016 but when you follow that up with being in the bottom 1/4 you probably will remain the same. If we are any team consistently stayed in the 70's when the rest of the conference were in the 90's+ over a long period that team would crush the conference with competent coaching. Just because they are not 100% dead on or predict every game does not mean they don have merit. There is a reason the recruit rankings look a whole hell of a lot like the actual rankings and conference standings. It is a very strong correlation. For every App that greatly exceeds exceptions based on total team talent rank there are ton they fall right inline.

You've been beating this drum for awhile now and it's getting old. If signing three star recruits means success through supoerior talent, you guys should be killing it. You had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rated classes the past three years. Oh yea I forgot... coaching & philosophy changes. 07-coffee3 While over that same three years App's classes have ranked (adjusted for players no longer in the program) 6, 7 & 7. Yet here we are fresh off a SB chamapionship, 2 bowl victories and the preseason favorite to win it in 2017. How is that possible? If, as you say, Satterfield has simply been "beating the odds" with low rated players, you're delusional.

App signed twelve 3 star players in the 2013, 14 & 15 classes, only seven stuck (including 1 juco who graduated). One is a starter and six are backups to lower rated players.

3 star .815 RB Tewrrance Upshaw chose App over Vandy & 3 star .820 RB Josh Boyd App over Syracuse and Washington State. Both are career backups to 2 star .778 Marcus Cox and almost no star .699 SB OPOY Jalin Moore.

3 star .845 WR Jalyn Barbour chose App over Wake Forest. Couldn't get on the field and transferred. 3 star .816 Jordan Noil chose App over Maryland then transferred to a juco after his freshman year. 3 star .834 Nikia Cathy originally comitted to Miss State then chose App over Indiana. Could not get on the field and transferred.

3 star .845 DB Treyon Garnett couldn't get on the field and transferred to Alabama State. 3 star .845 DB Anthony Covington signed with App over Pitt. Couldn't get off the scout team and transferred to UNCC.

One more thing. Please stop blabbering on and on about a coach being judged for beating teams with a talent level advantage. Coaches are hired with the expectation of beating teams at their own level. It's laughable that you delegitimize Satterfield for not beating higher rated teams. All while every knowledgeable football analyst in college football considers him to be one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country. Obviously your hatred towards App is simply too great to allow you to see things clearly.
06-27-2017 08:32 PM
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AtlantaJag Offline
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Post: #43
Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-27-2017 06:49 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 04:36 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  The evaluators are often not experienced at all and even having playing or coaching experience at the college level does not mean you are a great evaluator of talent. Yes, the 5 stars and 4 stars are easy and you can look at offers. Anything below that is a total crapshoot. You see it every year where kids who are rated two stars or lower will shoot up the charts due to a handful of solid offers. They were already "evaluated" by the "experts" yet they miraculously became more talented overnight.

On the other hand, I have seen 3 and 4 star kids end up going D2 because some goober got caught up in camp stats or hype or just liked a kid.

I don't want transfers reevaluated or added. Never suggested that at all. Those players are simply another piece of the puzzle that cannot be remotely solved by recruiting rankings.

Nearly all of our best players based on college or NFL success over the last 20 years were lightly recruited and low rated.

The best way to become an evaluator: eat, breathe, and sleep football.


Very true. It's not rocket surgery. If you have basic intelligence you'll eventually be able to start figuring out who can play and who can't with a high degree of success if you watch enough film and then see who goes on to successful careers.
06-27-2017 08:37 PM
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AtlantaJag Offline
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Post: #44
Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-27-2017 04:36 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  The evaluators are often not experienced at all and even having playing or coaching experience at the college level does not mean you are a great evaluator of talent. Yes, the 5 stars and 4 stars are easy and you can look at offers. Anything below that is a total crapshoot. You see it every year where kids who are rated two stars or lower will shoot up the charts due to a handful of solid offers. They were already "evaluated" by the "experts" yet they miraculously became more talented overnight.

On the other hand, I have seen 3 and 4 star kids end up going D2 because some goober got caught up in camp stats or hype or just liked a kid.

I don't want transfers reevaluated or added. Never suggested that at all. Those players are simply another piece of the puzzle that cannot be remotely solved by recruiting rankings.

Nearly all of our best players based on college or NFL success over the last 20 years were lightly recruited and low rated.


You can find tons of individual examples of players being underrated or overrated but the real key to evaluating recruiting rankings is comparing the teams' performances over time with how their classes were ranked.
In Arkansas State's case, the great run they are on certainly correlates to the highly rated classes they've brought in over the last several years.
I know I'm not going to change your mind so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
06-27-2017 08:43 PM
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troutbummike Online
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Post: #45
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-27-2017 08:32 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 11:40 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 06:03 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 01:39 AM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 10:45 PM)doberman1 Wrote:  That list is either outdated or wrong. They have us with 4 committments and as of today we have 11. I realize it is tough keeping up with everybody and kids committ somewhere every day. This list was done about a month ago. Will they update this from time to time?

The list only shows players that have a rating, they actually show you with 8. On the bright side, you could be App State, who has a freaking 24/7 site and still can only get 6/11 players rated.

Why get caught up in what some guy from who knows where that has never seen these kids play thinks about our recruits? I could care less if we finish last in the SB every year in these so-called recruting sites lists. Ask Satterfield what he thinks of these sites. Our team is full of low rated players who have been, or will be, All SB team guys. I put far more trust in what the coaches think than some guy who more than likely has never snapped on a helmet.

Yes because who did you beat of note at all in the FBS? App has beaten teams where the talent disparity is not that huge but has yet to beat anyone where the talent disparity is huge. The last time you played the team in the Sun Belt with the highest rated roster they curbed stomped you as well. Also App was the only team with that low rated talent to share a conference title much less have a winning record. So yes hold on to that coach as long as you can because he is beating the odds for now.

Other things play a part in winning like ummm coaching and development that is how a team that lead the FBS or close to it in rushing for two straight years goes to crap with but talent will always be the #1 factor. It is not exact so people use the mentally lazy few examples of a few players or teams that exceed roster expectations and ignore the 90% of other teams and literally thousands of players that perform extremely close if not dead on where the rankings had them. You will not win consistently nor beat any teams of note with low rated talent the vast majority of the time period. One class or two good or bad classes are not going to kill you or change much it is the totality of your roster. We out recruited P5's in 2016 but when you follow that up with being in the bottom 1/4 you probably will remain the same. If we are any team consistently stayed in the 70's when the rest of the conference were in the 90's+ over a long period that team would crush the conference with competent coaching. Just because they are not 100% dead on or predict every game does not mean they don have merit. There is a reason the recruit rankings look a whole hell of a lot like the actual rankings and conference standings. It is a very strong correlation. For every App that greatly exceeds exceptions based on total team talent rank there are ton they fall right inline.

You've been beating this drum for awhile now and it's getting old. If signing three star recruits means success through supoerior talent, you guys should be killing it. You had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rated classes the past three years. Oh yea I forgot... coaching & philosophy changes. 07-coffee3 While over that same three years App's classes have ranked (adjusted for players no longer in the program) 6, 7 & 7. Yet here we are fresh off a SB chamapionship, 2 bowl victories and the preseason favorite to win it in 2017. How is that possible? If, as you say, Satterfield has simply been "beating the odds" with low rated players, you're delusional.

App signed twelve 3 star players in the 2013, 14 & 15 classes, only seven stuck (including 1 juco who graduated). One is a starter and six are backups to lower rated players.

3 star .815 RB Tewrrance Upshaw chose App over Vandy & 3 star .820 RB Josh Boyd App over Syracuse and Washington State. Both are career backups to 2 star .778 Marcus Cox and almost no star .699 SB OPOY Jalin Moore.

3 star .845 WR Jalyn Barbour chose App over Wake Forest. Couldn't get on the field and transferred. 3 star .816 Jordan Noil chose App over Maryland then transferred to a juco after his freshman year. 3 star .834 Nikia Cathy originally comitted to Miss State then chose App over Indiana. Could not get on the field and transferred.

3 star .845 DB Treyon Garnett couldn't get on the field and transferred to Alabama State. 3 star .845 DB Anthony Covington signed with App over Pitt. Couldn't get off the scout team and transferred to UNCC.

One more thing. Please stop blabbering on and on about a coach being judged for beating teams with a talent level advantage. Coaches are hired with the expectation of beating teams at their own level. It's laughable that you delegitimize Satterfield for not beating higher rated teams. All while every knowledgeable football analyst in college football considers him to be one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country. Obviously your hatred towards App is simply too great to allow you to see things clearly.

04-cheers

2 things I might add:

1) Go App State
2)Clifton Duck was a 2 star undersized recruit
06-27-2017 08:44 PM
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JCGSU Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-27-2017 08:32 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 11:40 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 06:03 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 01:39 AM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 10:45 PM)doberman1 Wrote:  That list is either outdated or wrong. They have us with 4 committments and as of today we have 11. I realize it is tough keeping up with everybody and kids committ somewhere every day. This list was done about a month ago. Will they update this from time to time?

The list only shows players that have a rating, they actually show you with 8. On the bright side, you could be App State, who has a freaking 24/7 site and still can only get 6/11 players rated.

Why get caught up in what some guy from who knows where that has never seen these kids play thinks about our recruits? I could care less if we finish last in the SB every year in these so-called recruting sites lists. Ask Satterfield what he thinks of these sites. Our team is full of low rated players who have been, or will be, All SB team guys. I put far more trust in what the coaches think than some guy who more than likely has never snapped on a helmet.

Yes because who did you beat of note at all in the FBS? App has beaten teams where the talent disparity is not that huge but has yet to beat anyone where the talent disparity is huge. The last time you played the team in the Sun Belt with the highest rated roster they curbed stomped you as well. Also App was the only team with that low rated talent to share a conference title much less have a winning record. So yes hold on to that coach as long as you can because he is beating the odds for now.

Other things play a part in winning like ummm coaching and development that is how a team that lead the FBS or close to it in rushing for two straight years goes to crap with but talent will always be the #1 factor. It is not exact so people use the mentally lazy few examples of a few players or teams that exceed roster expectations and ignore the 90% of other teams and literally thousands of players that perform extremely close if not dead on where the rankings had them. You will not win consistently nor beat any teams of note with low rated talent the vast majority of the time period. One class or two good or bad classes are not going to kill you or change much it is the totality of your roster. We out recruited P5's in 2016 but when you follow that up with being in the bottom 1/4 you probably will remain the same. If we are any team consistently stayed in the 70's when the rest of the conference were in the 90's+ over a long period that team would crush the conference with competent coaching. Just because they are not 100% dead on or predict every game does not mean they don have merit. There is a reason the recruit rankings look a whole hell of a lot like the actual rankings and conference standings. It is a very strong correlation. For every App that greatly exceeds exceptions based on total team talent rank there are ton they fall right inline.

You've been beating this drum for awhile now and it's getting old. If signing three star recruits means success through supoerior talent, you guys should be killing it. You had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rated classes the past three years. Oh yea I forgot... coaching & philosophy changes. 07-coffee3 While over that same three years App's classes have ranked (adjusted for players no longer in the program) 6, 7 & 7. Yet here we are fresh off a SB chamapionship, 2 bowl victories and the preseason favorite to win it in 2017. How is that possible? If, as you say, Satterfield has simply been "beating the odds" with low rated players, you're delusional.

App signed twelve 3 star players in the 2013, 14 & 15 classes, only seven stuck (including 1 juco who graduated). One is a starter and six are backups to lower rated players.

3 star .815 RB Tewrrance Upshaw chose App over Vandy & 3 star .820 RB Josh Boyd App over Syracuse and Washington State. Both are career backups to 2 star .778 Marcus Cox and almost no star .699 SB OPOY Jalin Moore.

3 star .845 WR Jalyn Barbour chose App over Wake Forest. Couldn't get on the field and transferred. 3 star .816 Jordan Noil chose App over Maryland then transferred to a juco after his freshman year. 3 star .834 Nikia Cathy originally comitted to Miss State then chose App over Indiana. Could not get on the field and transferred.

3 star .845 DB Treyon Garnett couldn't get on the field and transferred to Alabama State. 3 star .845 DB Anthony Covington signed with App over Pitt. Couldn't get off the scout team and transferred to UNCC.

One more thing. Please stop blabbering on and on about a coach being judged for beating teams with a talent level advantage. Coaches are hired with the expectation of beating teams at their own level. It's laughable that you delegitimize Satterfield for not beating higher rated teams. All while every knowledgeable football analyst in college football considers him to be one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country. Obviously your hatred towards App is simply too great to allow you to see things clearly.

Wow....a ton of dumb and ignorance in there. Again talking about individual teams or players is asinine. That is like saying hey one innocent guy out of tens of thousands got sent to prison so the whole legal system is a sham.... For every player you hold up as a example there are literally hundreds that pan out to their grade and most on your own team. Also the MAJORITY of teams, vast majority in fact, end up right where their total team talent ranking would have them in the conference, rankings and win loss column. Which is the point and one easily understood if you ever stepped on college campus and stumbled into a very basic stats class.

I have also never said a bad word about Sat., I think he is an outstanding coach and you will be lucky to hold on to him past this year if he does what he has done so far. What I am saying is App has only beaten the teams they have relatively similar talent with and have not beaten a single team with a distinct talent advantage like a UM. Even with that it is not an insult to say he is beating the odds, beating the odds is exactly what he is doing as the team ranked around him are not winning anything. So if you have teams all around you in the TOTAL team talent rankings and you are the ONLY one to win a conf much less share one or even have a winning record that is the definition of beating the odds. ArkSt has consistently had the highest rated teams and they consistently win the conf or finish top three.

As for GS, Yes we have until last year been at the top of the Belt and did kill it our first two years...hmmm..what changed oh yeah our coach landed a 1M+ pay day and we hired a 35 year old DC who in turned hired a high school coach to run our offense....Yes I sure that had nothing to do with it. Just like VanGorder had zero affect when he was hired.... Also only one class was distinctly better than most other Belt teams the 2016 class all others while at the top of the Belt were non significantly better than anyone elses. Having the 90th ranked class is not that much different than the 100th yet that could mean being top three in the Belt and 100th being bottom three. Your arguments are mentally lazy and have been destroyed over and over. Also App was #1 in 2014 which would mean your best FBS recruits so far were the most experienced on the team..07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 09:36 AM by JCGSU.)
06-28-2017 09:24 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 09:24 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 08:32 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 11:40 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 06:03 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 01:39 AM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  The list only shows players that have a rating, they actually show you with 8. On the bright side, you could be App State, who has a freaking 24/7 site and still can only get 6/11 players rated.

Why get caught up in what some guy from who knows where that has never seen these kids play thinks about our recruits? I could care less if we finish last in the SB every year in these so-called recruting sites lists. Ask Satterfield what he thinks of these sites. Our team is full of low rated players who have been, or will be, All SB team guys. I put far more trust in what the coaches think than some guy who more than likely has never snapped on a helmet.

Yes because who did you beat of note at all in the FBS? App has beaten teams where the talent disparity is not that huge but has yet to beat anyone where the talent disparity is huge. The last time you played the team in the Sun Belt with the highest rated roster they curbed stomped you as well. Also App was the only team with that low rated talent to share a conference title much less have a winning record. So yes hold on to that coach as long as you can because he is beating the odds for now.

Other things play a part in winning like ummm coaching and development that is how a team that lead the FBS or close to it in rushing for two straight years goes to crap with but talent will always be the #1 factor. It is not exact so people use the mentally lazy few examples of a few players or teams that exceed roster expectations and ignore the 90% of other teams and literally thousands of players that perform extremely close if not dead on where the rankings had them. You will not win consistently nor beat any teams of note with low rated talent the vast majority of the time period. One class or two good or bad classes are not going to kill you or change much it is the totality of your roster. We out recruited P5's in 2016 but when you follow that up with being in the bottom 1/4 you probably will remain the same. If we are any team consistently stayed in the 70's when the rest of the conference were in the 90's+ over a long period that team would crush the conference with competent coaching. Just because they are not 100% dead on or predict every game does not mean they don have merit. There is a reason the recruit rankings look a whole hell of a lot like the actual rankings and conference standings. It is a very strong correlation. For every App that greatly exceeds exceptions based on total team talent rank there are ton they fall right inline.

You've been beating this drum for awhile now and it's getting old. If signing three star recruits means success through supoerior talent, you guys should be killing it. You had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rated classes the past three years. Oh yea I forgot... coaching & philosophy changes. 07-coffee3 While over that same three years App's classes have ranked (adjusted for players no longer in the program) 6, 7 & 7. Yet here we are fresh off a SB chamapionship, 2 bowl victories and the preseason favorite to win it in 2017. How is that possible? If, as you say, Satterfield has simply been "beating the odds" with low rated players, you're delusional.

App signed twelve 3 star players in the 2013, 14 & 15 classes, only seven stuck (including 1 juco who graduated). One is a starter and six are backups to lower rated players.

3 star .815 RB Tewrrance Upshaw chose App over Vandy & 3 star .820 RB Josh Boyd App over Syracuse and Washington State. Both are career backups to 2 star .778 Marcus Cox and almost no star .699 SB OPOY Jalin Moore.

3 star .845 WR Jalyn Barbour chose App over Wake Forest. Couldn't get on the field and transferred. 3 star .816 Jordan Noil chose App over Maryland then transferred to a juco after his freshman year. 3 star .834 Nikia Cathy originally comitted to Miss State then chose App over Indiana. Could not get on the field and transferred.

3 star .845 DB Treyon Garnett couldn't get on the field and transferred to Alabama State. 3 star .845 DB Anthony Covington signed with App over Pitt. Couldn't get off the scout team and transferred to UNCC.

One more thing. Please stop blabbering on and on about a coach being judged for beating teams with a talent level advantage. Coaches are hired with the expectation of beating teams at their own level. It's laughable that you delegitimize Satterfield for not beating higher rated teams. All while every knowledgeable football analyst in college football considers him to be one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country. Obviously your hatred towards App is simply too great to allow you to see things clearly.

Wow....a ton of dumb and ignorance in there. Again talking about individual teams or players is asinine. That is like saying hey one innocent guy out of tens of thousands got sent to prison so the whole legal system is a sham.... For every player you hold up as a example there are literally hundreds that pan out to their grade and most on your own team. Also the MAJORITY of teams, vast majority in fact, end up right where their total team talent ranking would have them in the conference, rankings and win loss column. Which is the point and one easily understood if you ever stepped on college campus and stumbled into a very basic stats class.

I have also never said a bad word about Sat., I think he is an outstanding coach and you will be lucky to hold on to him past this year if he does what he has done so far. What I am saying is App has only beaten the teams they have relatively similar talent with and have not beaten a single team with a distinct talent advantage like a UM. Even with that it is not an insult to say he is beating the odds, beating the odds is exactly what he is doing as the team ranked around him are not winning anything. So if you have teams all around you in the TOTAL team talent rankings and you are the ONLY one to win a conf much less share one or even have a winning record that is the definition of beating the odds. ArkSt has consistently had the highest rated teams and they consistently win the conf or finish top three.

As for GS, Yes we have until last year been at the top of the Belt and did kill it our first two years...hmmm..what changed oh yeah our coach landed a 1M+ pay day and we hired a 35 year old DC who in turned hired a high school coach to run our offense....Yes I sure that had nothing to do with it. Just like VanGorder had zero affect when he was hired.... Also only one class was distinctly better than most other Belt teams the 2016 class all others while at the top of the Belt were non significantly better than anyone elses. Having the 90th ranked class is not that much different than the 100th yet that could mean being top three in the Belt and 100th being bottom three. Your arguments are mentally lazy and have been destroyed over and over. Also App was #1 in 2014 which would mean your best FBS recruits so far were the most experienced on the team..07-coffee3
My argument is based on fact, yours on the presumption 3 star prospects - and that's all they are - are substantially better than 2 star guys. Had you paid attention to what I said you would know all but one of those players who made that a #1 class are gone. The players left on the roster would now be rated the #7 class. THOSE are the guys who have played a majority of the snaps, won 2 bowl games, a conf championship and made App the 2017 preseason favorite. I continue giving you the rope and you keep hanging yourself. Man oh man were my GA So buddies right about you.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 11:04 AM by AppManDG.)
06-28-2017 10:44 AM
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JCGSU Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 10:44 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 09:24 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 08:32 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 11:40 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 06:03 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  Why get caught up in what some guy from who knows where that has never seen these kids play thinks about our recruits? I could care less if we finish last in the SB every year in these so-called recruting sites lists. Ask Satterfield what he thinks of these sites. Our team is full of low rated players who have been, or will be, All SB team guys. I put far more trust in what the coaches think than some guy who more than likely has never snapped on a helmet.

Yes because who did you beat of note at all in the FBS? App has beaten teams where the talent disparity is not that huge but has yet to beat anyone where the talent disparity is huge. The last time you played the team in the Sun Belt with the highest rated roster they curbed stomped you as well. Also App was the only team with that low rated talent to share a conference title much less have a winning record. So yes hold on to that coach as long as you can because he is beating the odds for now.

Other things play a part in winning like ummm coaching and development that is how a team that lead the FBS or close to it in rushing for two straight years goes to crap with but talent will always be the #1 factor. It is not exact so people use the mentally lazy few examples of a few players or teams that exceed roster expectations and ignore the 90% of other teams and literally thousands of players that perform extremely close if not dead on where the rankings had them. You will not win consistently nor beat any teams of note with low rated talent the vast majority of the time period. One class or two good or bad classes are not going to kill you or change much it is the totality of your roster. We out recruited P5's in 2016 but when you follow that up with being in the bottom 1/4 you probably will remain the same. If we are any team consistently stayed in the 70's when the rest of the conference were in the 90's+ over a long period that team would crush the conference with competent coaching. Just because they are not 100% dead on or predict every game does not mean they don have merit. There is a reason the recruit rankings look a whole hell of a lot like the actual rankings and conference standings. It is a very strong correlation. For every App that greatly exceeds exceptions based on total team talent rank there are ton they fall right inline.

You've been beating this drum for awhile now and it's getting old. If signing three star recruits means success through supoerior talent, you guys should be killing it. You had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rated classes the past three years. Oh yea I forgot... coaching & philosophy changes. 07-coffee3 While over that same three years App's classes have ranked (adjusted for players no longer in the program) 6, 7 & 7. Yet here we are fresh off a SB chamapionship, 2 bowl victories and the preseason favorite to win it in 2017. How is that possible? If, as you say, Satterfield has simply been "beating the odds" with low rated players, you're delusional.

App signed twelve 3 star players in the 2013, 14 & 15 classes, only seven stuck (including 1 juco who graduated). One is a starter and six are backups to lower rated players.

3 star .815 RB Tewrrance Upshaw chose App over Vandy & 3 star .820 RB Josh Boyd App over Syracuse and Washington State. Both are career backups to 2 star .778 Marcus Cox and almost no star .699 SB OPOY Jalin Moore.

3 star .845 WR Jalyn Barbour chose App over Wake Forest. Couldn't get on the field and transferred. 3 star .816 Jordan Noil chose App over Maryland then transferred to a juco after his freshman year. 3 star .834 Nikia Cathy originally comitted to Miss State then chose App over Indiana. Could not get on the field and transferred.

3 star .845 DB Treyon Garnett couldn't get on the field and transferred to Alabama State. 3 star .845 DB Anthony Covington signed with App over Pitt. Couldn't get off the scout team and transferred to UNCC.

One more thing. Please stop blabbering on and on about a coach being judged for beating teams with a talent level advantage. Coaches are hired with the expectation of beating teams at their own level. It's laughable that you delegitimize Satterfield for not beating higher rated teams. All while every knowledgeable football analyst in college football considers him to be one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country. Obviously your hatred towards App is simply too great to allow you to see things clearly.

Wow....a ton of dumb and ignorance in there. Again talking about individual teams or players is asinine. That is like saying hey one innocent guy out of tens of thousands got sent to prison so the whole legal system is a sham.... For every player you hold up as a example there are literally hundreds that pan out to their grade and most on your own team. Also the MAJORITY of teams, vast majority in fact, end up right where their total team talent ranking would have them in the conference, rankings and win loss column. Which is the point and one easily understood if you ever stepped on college campus and stumbled into a very basic stats class.

I have also never said a bad word about Sat., I think he is an outstanding coach and you will be lucky to hold on to him past this year if he does what he has done so far. What I am saying is App has only beaten the teams they have relatively similar talent with and have not beaten a single team with a distinct talent advantage like a UM. Even with that it is not an insult to say he is beating the odds, beating the odds is exactly what he is doing as the team ranked around him are not winning anything. So if you have teams all around you in the TOTAL team talent rankings and you are the ONLY one to win a conf much less share one or even have a winning record that is the definition of beating the odds. ArkSt has consistently had the highest rated teams and they consistently win the conf or finish top three.

As for GS, Yes we have until last year been at the top of the Belt and did kill it our first two years...hmmm..what changed oh yeah our coach landed a 1M+ pay day and we hired a 35 year old DC who in turned hired a high school coach to run our offense....Yes I sure that had nothing to do with it. Just like VanGorder had zero affect when he was hired.... Also only one class was distinctly better than most other Belt teams the 2016 class all others while at the top of the Belt were non significantly better than anyone elses. Having the 90th ranked class is not that much different than the 100th yet that could mean being top three in the Belt and 100th being bottom three. Your arguments are mentally lazy and have been destroyed over and over. Also App was #1 in 2014 which would mean your best FBS recruits so far were the most experienced on the team..07-coffee3
My argument is based on fact, yours on the presumption 3 star prospects - and that's all they are - are substantially better than 2 star guys. Had you paid attention to what I said you would know all but one of those players who made that a #1 class are gone. The players left on the roster would now be rated the #7 class. THOSE are the guys who have played a majority of the snaps, won 2 bowl games, a conf championship and made App the 2017 preseason favorite. I continue giving you the rope and you keep hanging yourself. Man oh man were my GA So buddies right about you.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app

Your "argument" is based on ONE team- and few players out of thousands and 130 FBS teams not to mention the FCS....I can give hundreds of examples of kids panning out based on their grade for every one of your bust or diamonds and probably 20 teams to every one that significantly over or under performs based on total team talent. Hmm maybe like our own because our three star kids have done really well........Three star is the widest of all the rankings. Like I said a three star can mean you are being recruited by mostly FCS or Alabama Your ignorance of that is proof you have no clue. . Yes a low rated three star is not much different than a kid that barely missed a three star rating....ground breaking genius stuff there...but a high three star is typically light years away from two star talent. So let me blow your mind with this, a high three is not that much different from a low four star rated recruit....oh and high four is probably not that much different than kid that barley made the five star cut...... See all the three's the elite P5's are recruiting for easy fact checking. Also when comparing the entire populations of each star group there are distinct differences in starting, making the NFL and being an All American. I read enough articles and seen the analysis within in them to know that. Try google it works. Your individual examples are just that whether it be team or a few players. Wow a few players out of literally thousands and one team out of 130 did not fit the mold perfectly, yes the whole thing is just a sham I will stick with the vast majority of the data....simple math.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...tComposite

If you want to take the time to run a spread sheet like I did feel free. Please show me all the examples especially towards the bottom where teams with low rated team talent are killing it in wins, rankings, conference championships or bowl games.....or just dont waste your time.

So you know the difference in three stars
HIGH going to a P5
http://247sports.com/Player/Chase-Garbers-80505

LOW went to FCS
http://247sports.com/Player/Kyle-McCloskey-84532

Yes I know it is crazy but there might be a difference in talent...and wow they are both three stars....
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 11:45 AM by JCGSU.)
06-28-2017 11:08 AM
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AtlantaJag Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 11:08 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 10:44 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 09:24 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 08:32 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 11:40 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  Yes because who did you beat of note at all in the FBS? App has beaten teams where the talent disparity is not that huge but has yet to beat anyone where the talent disparity is huge. The last time you played the team in the Sun Belt with the highest rated roster they curbed stomped you as well. Also App was the only team with that low rated talent to share a conference title much less have a winning record. So yes hold on to that coach as long as you can because he is beating the odds for now.

Other things play a part in winning like ummm coaching and development that is how a team that lead the FBS or close to it in rushing for two straight years goes to crap with but talent will always be the #1 factor. It is not exact so people use the mentally lazy few examples of a few players or teams that exceed roster expectations and ignore the 90% of other teams and literally thousands of players that perform extremely close if not dead on where the rankings had them. You will not win consistently nor beat any teams of note with low rated talent the vast majority of the time period. One class or two good or bad classes are not going to kill you or change much it is the totality of your roster. We out recruited P5's in 2016 but when you follow that up with being in the bottom 1/4 you probably will remain the same. If we are any team consistently stayed in the 70's when the rest of the conference were in the 90's+ over a long period that team would crush the conference with competent coaching. Just because they are not 100% dead on or predict every game does not mean they don have merit. There is a reason the recruit rankings look a whole hell of a lot like the actual rankings and conference standings. It is a very strong correlation. For every App that greatly exceeds exceptions based on total team talent rank there are ton they fall right inline.

You've been beating this drum for awhile now and it's getting old. If signing three star recruits means success through supoerior talent, you guys should be killing it. You had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rated classes the past three years. Oh yea I forgot... coaching & philosophy changes. 07-coffee3 While over that same three years App's classes have ranked (adjusted for players no longer in the program) 6, 7 & 7. Yet here we are fresh off a SB chamapionship, 2 bowl victories and the preseason favorite to win it in 2017. How is that possible? If, as you say, Satterfield has simply been "beating the odds" with low rated players, you're delusional.

App signed twelve 3 star players in the 2013, 14 & 15 classes, only seven stuck (including 1 juco who graduated). One is a starter and six are backups to lower rated players.

3 star .815 RB Tewrrance Upshaw chose App over Vandy & 3 star .820 RB Josh Boyd App over Syracuse and Washington State. Both are career backups to 2 star .778 Marcus Cox and almost no star .699 SB OPOY Jalin Moore.

3 star .845 WR Jalyn Barbour chose App over Wake Forest. Couldn't get on the field and transferred. 3 star .816 Jordan Noil chose App over Maryland then transferred to a juco after his freshman year. 3 star .834 Nikia Cathy originally comitted to Miss State then chose App over Indiana. Could not get on the field and transferred.

3 star .845 DB Treyon Garnett couldn't get on the field and transferred to Alabama State. 3 star .845 DB Anthony Covington signed with App over Pitt. Couldn't get off the scout team and transferred to UNCC.

One more thing. Please stop blabbering on and on about a coach being judged for beating teams with a talent level advantage. Coaches are hired with the expectation of beating teams at their own level. It's laughable that you delegitimize Satterfield for not beating higher rated teams. All while every knowledgeable football analyst in college football considers him to be one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country. Obviously your hatred towards App is simply too great to allow you to see things clearly.

Wow....a ton of dumb and ignorance in there. Again talking about individual teams or players is asinine. That is like saying hey one innocent guy out of tens of thousands got sent to prison so the whole legal system is a sham.... For every player you hold up as a example there are literally hundreds that pan out to their grade and most on your own team. Also the MAJORITY of teams, vast majority in fact, end up right where their total team talent ranking would have them in the conference, rankings and win loss column. Which is the point and one easily understood if you ever stepped on college campus and stumbled into a very basic stats class.

I have also never said a bad word about Sat., I think he is an outstanding coach and you will be lucky to hold on to him past this year if he does what he has done so far. What I am saying is App has only beaten the teams they have relatively similar talent with and have not beaten a single team with a distinct talent advantage like a UM. Even with that it is not an insult to say he is beating the odds, beating the odds is exactly what he is doing as the team ranked around him are not winning anything. So if you have teams all around you in the TOTAL team talent rankings and you are the ONLY one to win a conf much less share one or even have a winning record that is the definition of beating the odds. ArkSt has consistently had the highest rated teams and they consistently win the conf or finish top three.

As for GS, Yes we have until last year been at the top of the Belt and did kill it our first two years...hmmm..what changed oh yeah our coach landed a 1M+ pay day and we hired a 35 year old DC who in turned hired a high school coach to run our offense....Yes I sure that had nothing to do with it. Just like VanGorder had zero affect when he was hired.... Also only one class was distinctly better than most other Belt teams the 2016 class all others while at the top of the Belt were non significantly better than anyone elses. Having the 90th ranked class is not that much different than the 100th yet that could mean being top three in the Belt and 100th being bottom three. Your arguments are mentally lazy and have been destroyed over and over. Also App was #1 in 2014 which would mean your best FBS recruits so far were the most experienced on the team..07-coffee3
My argument is based on fact, yours on the presumption 3 star prospects - and that's all they are - are substantially better than 2 star guys. Had you paid attention to what I said you would know all but one of those players who made that a #1 class are gone. The players left on the roster would now be rated the #7 class. THOSE are the guys who have played a majority of the snaps, won 2 bowl games, a conf championship and made App the 2017 preseason favorite. I continue giving you the rope and you keep hanging yourself. Man oh man were my GA So buddies right about you.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app

Your "argument" is based on ONE team- and few players out of thousands and 130 FBS teams not to mention the FCS....I can give hundreds of examples of kids panning out based on their grade for every one of your bust or diamonds and probably 20 teams to every one that significantly over or under performs based on total team talent. Hmm maybe like our own because our three star kids have done really well........Three star is the widest of all the rankings. Like I said a three star can mean you are being recruited by mostly FCS or Alabama Your ignorance of that is proof you have no clue. . Yes a low rated three star is not much different than a kid that barely missed a three star rating....ground breaking genius stuff there...but a high three star is typically light years away from two star talent. So let me blow your mind with this, a high three is not that much different from a low four star rated recruit....oh and high four is probably not that much different than kid that barley made the five star cut...... See all the three's the elite P5's are recruiting for easy fact checking. Also when comparing the entire populations of each star group there are distinct differences in starting, making the NFL and being an All American. I read enough articles and seen the analysis within in them to know that. Try google it works. Your individual examples are just that whether it be team or a few players. Wow a few players out of literally thousands and one team out of 130 did not fit the mold perfectly, yes the whole thing is just a sham I will stick with the vast majority of the data....simple math.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...tComposite

If you want to take the time to run a spread sheet like I did feel free. Please show me all the examples especially towards the bottom where teams with low rated team talent are killing it in wins, rankings, conference championships or bowl games.....or just dont waste your time.

So you know the difference in three stars
HIGH going to a P5
http://247sports.com/Player/Chase-Garbers-80505

LOW went to FCS
http://247sports.com/Player/Kyle-McCloskey-84532

Yes I know it is crazy but there might be a difference in talent...and wow they are both three stars....

If you had two equally qualified coaching staffs but one program signed only two star players and the other only three star players, I know which one I would put my money on winning the match up every year. It may not happen 100 times out of 100, but much more often than not.
06-28-2017 02:25 PM
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JCGSU Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 02:25 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 11:08 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 10:44 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 09:24 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 08:32 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  You've been beating this drum for awhile now and it's getting old. If signing three star recruits means success through supoerior talent, you guys should be killing it. You had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rated classes the past three years. Oh yea I forgot... coaching & philosophy changes. 07-coffee3 While over that same three years App's classes have ranked (adjusted for players no longer in the program) 6, 7 & 7. Yet here we are fresh off a SB chamapionship, 2 bowl victories and the preseason favorite to win it in 2017. How is that possible? If, as you say, Satterfield has simply been "beating the odds" with low rated players, you're delusional.

App signed twelve 3 star players in the 2013, 14 & 15 classes, only seven stuck (including 1 juco who graduated). One is a starter and six are backups to lower rated players.

3 star .815 RB Tewrrance Upshaw chose App over Vandy & 3 star .820 RB Josh Boyd App over Syracuse and Washington State. Both are career backups to 2 star .778 Marcus Cox and almost no star .699 SB OPOY Jalin Moore.

3 star .845 WR Jalyn Barbour chose App over Wake Forest. Couldn't get on the field and transferred. 3 star .816 Jordan Noil chose App over Maryland then transferred to a juco after his freshman year. 3 star .834 Nikia Cathy originally comitted to Miss State then chose App over Indiana. Could not get on the field and transferred.

3 star .845 DB Treyon Garnett couldn't get on the field and transferred to Alabama State. 3 star .845 DB Anthony Covington signed with App over Pitt. Couldn't get off the scout team and transferred to UNCC.

One more thing. Please stop blabbering on and on about a coach being judged for beating teams with a talent level advantage. Coaches are hired with the expectation of beating teams at their own level. It's laughable that you delegitimize Satterfield for not beating higher rated teams. All while every knowledgeable football analyst in college football considers him to be one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country. Obviously your hatred towards App is simply too great to allow you to see things clearly.

Wow....a ton of dumb and ignorance in there. Again talking about individual teams or players is asinine. That is like saying hey one innocent guy out of tens of thousands got sent to prison so the whole legal system is a sham.... For every player you hold up as a example there are literally hundreds that pan out to their grade and most on your own team. Also the MAJORITY of teams, vast majority in fact, end up right where their total team talent ranking would have them in the conference, rankings and win loss column. Which is the point and one easily understood if you ever stepped on college campus and stumbled into a very basic stats class.

I have also never said a bad word about Sat., I think he is an outstanding coach and you will be lucky to hold on to him past this year if he does what he has done so far. What I am saying is App has only beaten the teams they have relatively similar talent with and have not beaten a single team with a distinct talent advantage like a UM. Even with that it is not an insult to say he is beating the odds, beating the odds is exactly what he is doing as the team ranked around him are not winning anything. So if you have teams all around you in the TOTAL team talent rankings and you are the ONLY one to win a conf much less share one or even have a winning record that is the definition of beating the odds. ArkSt has consistently had the highest rated teams and they consistently win the conf or finish top three.

As for GS, Yes we have until last year been at the top of the Belt and did kill it our first two years...hmmm..what changed oh yeah our coach landed a 1M+ pay day and we hired a 35 year old DC who in turned hired a high school coach to run our offense....Yes I sure that had nothing to do with it. Just like VanGorder had zero affect when he was hired.... Also only one class was distinctly better than most other Belt teams the 2016 class all others while at the top of the Belt were non significantly better than anyone elses. Having the 90th ranked class is not that much different than the 100th yet that could mean being top three in the Belt and 100th being bottom three. Your arguments are mentally lazy and have been destroyed over and over. Also App was #1 in 2014 which would mean your best FBS recruits so far were the most experienced on the team..07-coffee3
My argument is based on fact, yours on the presumption 3 star prospects - and that's all they are - are substantially better than 2 star guys. Had you paid attention to what I said you would know all but one of those players who made that a #1 class are gone. The players left on the roster would now be rated the #7 class. THOSE are the guys who have played a majority of the snaps, won 2 bowl games, a conf championship and made App the 2017 preseason favorite. I continue giving you the rope and you keep hanging yourself. Man oh man were my GA So buddies right about you.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app

Your "argument" is based on ONE team- and few players out of thousands and 130 FBS teams not to mention the FCS....I can give hundreds of examples of kids panning out based on their grade for every one of your bust or diamonds and probably 20 teams to every one that significantly over or under performs based on total team talent. Hmm maybe like our own because our three star kids have done really well........Three star is the widest of all the rankings. Like I said a three star can mean you are being recruited by mostly FCS or Alabama Your ignorance of that is proof you have no clue. . Yes a low rated three star is not much different than a kid that barely missed a three star rating....ground breaking genius stuff there...but a high three star is typically light years away from two star talent. So let me blow your mind with this, a high three is not that much different from a low four star rated recruit....oh and high four is probably not that much different than kid that barley made the five star cut...... See all the three's the elite P5's are recruiting for easy fact checking. Also when comparing the entire populations of each star group there are distinct differences in starting, making the NFL and being an All American. I read enough articles and seen the analysis within in them to know that. Try google it works. Your individual examples are just that whether it be team or a few players. Wow a few players out of literally thousands and one team out of 130 did not fit the mold perfectly, yes the whole thing is just a sham I will stick with the vast majority of the data....simple math.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...tComposite

If you want to take the time to run a spread sheet like I did feel free. Please show me all the examples especially towards the bottom where teams with low rated team talent are killing it in wins, rankings, conference championships or bowl games.....or just dont waste your time.

So you know the difference in three stars
HIGH going to a P5
http://247sports.com/Player/Chase-Garbers-80505

LOW went to FCS
http://247sports.com/Player/Kyle-McCloskey-84532

Yes I know it is crazy but there might be a difference in talent...and wow they are both three stars....

If you had two equally qualified coaching staffs but one program signed only two star players and the other only three star players, I know which one I would put my money on winning the match up every year. It may not happen 100 times out of 100, but much more often than not.

Nah...We all know there is no difference in two star and three star talent just look at one team out of 130 if you need proof....or a few players out of thousands. Everyone knows a sample size of .77% of FBS teams is more than enough to make declarative conclusions about recruiting of all of college football. You might win 99 out of 100 times but that one win would be all the proof some on this board would need to debunk the rating system.

Lesson of the day MACRO vs MICRO.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 03:48 PM by JCGSU.)
06-28-2017 03:19 PM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
The one thing about recruiting ratings that gives me pause: Georgia Southern and App State should've been kicked around in conference play in 2014 but had a combined 12-2 record against the rest of the league.

How many teams in the Belt had more 3-stars than both teams in 2014? Probably almost all of them.

And people always bring up how closely recruiting rankings and national rankings correspond and how higher-rated players are more likely to go to the NFL, but I can devise a recruit rating system based only on program reputation and number of players in the NFL and you'd still have that correlation.
06-28-2017 06:38 PM
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ericsaid Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 06:38 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  The one thing about recruiting ratings that gives me pause: Georgia Southern and App State should've been kicked around in conference play in 2014 but had a combined 12-2 record against the rest of the league.

How many teams in the Belt had more 3-stars than both teams in 2014? Probably almost all of them.

And people always bring up how closely recruiting rankings and national rankings correspond and how higher-rated players are more likely to go to the NFL, but I can devise a recruit rating system based only on program reputation and number of players in the NFL and you'd still have that correlation.

Don't bring logic into this. 05-ban
06-28-2017 06:51 PM
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AtlantaJag Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 06:38 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  The one thing about recruiting ratings that gives me pause: Georgia Southern and App State should've been kicked around in conference play in 2014 but had a combined 12-2 record against the rest of the league.

How many teams in the Belt had more 3-stars than both teams in 2014? Probably almost all of them.

And people always bring up how closely recruiting rankings and national rankings correspond and how higher-rated players are more likely to go to the NFL, but I can devise a recruit rating system based only on program reputation and number of players in the NFL and you'd still have that correlation.

Recruiting services rarely took a look at FCS recruiting classes, so both of those 2014 rosters were more unknown than underrated. More players are looked at these days, though FCS signing classes still don't get much attention.
06-28-2017 07:23 PM
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troutbummike Online
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
The more I read this, the more I realize App State is screwed. Maybe we should trade spots with LU now before it gets too embarrassing.
06-28-2017 07:53 PM
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TrueBlueAlum Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 06:51 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  Don't bring logic into this. 05-ban

But FBS depth.
06-29-2017 08:19 AM
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JCGSU Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 06:38 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  The one thing about recruiting ratings that gives me pause: Georgia Southern and App State should've been kicked around in conference play in 2014 but had a combined 12-2 record against the rest of the league.

How many teams in the Belt had more 3-stars than both teams in 2014? Probably almost all of them.

And people always bring up how closely recruiting rankings and national rankings correspond and how higher-rated players are more likely to go to the NFL, but I can devise a recruit rating system based only on program reputation and number of players in the NFL and you'd still have that correlation.

Unless you realize most Sun Belt classes are not that far from the top FCS classes....Jacksonville State is ranked 127 and Idaho is ranked 126 in total team talent. So so much for FCS teams being overlooked today. I am sure if the rankings were where they are today five to seven years ago GS teams would have been ranked better. FCS just cant give 85 full schollies but the starting 22+/- could actually have been just as good as low ranked FBS teams which where most Sun Belt teams are. A lot of top FCS recruits have FBS offers some three stars frequently choose FCS schools.

Program rep? Umm programs get good reps for winning they win because they have great players and coaching. Players especially good ones are rated well before sometimes two years before they even choose a team. A five star lock to make the NFL can choose any team they want, they just often choose those playing for NC's year end and out. Rep just does not come out of thin air. AL sucked bad until and had ZERO or very few NFL draft picks one year IIRC under Shula so the rep thing has zero merit. AL was still AL but shocker Saban comes in dominates recruiting and owns college football...Why could Shula not do the same thing with the same historic AL rep?

MICRO evidence to make a MACRO point. Just because one store in a huge mall tanks it does not mean the whole Mall is about to tank. It does not work that way. I have said over and over APP is an outlier compared to the teams around them in the TOTAL team talent rankings. Not just based on individual years of recruiting. The TOTAL team talent is based on the players actually on the team not the kids three years ago that never made it to campus. Yes on the individual recruit or team level things can be a lot different than what is typical when you look at all 130 FBS teams much less throwing in some of the FCS or thousands of players that play DIV I football. How this simple concept is not getting through is puzzling at this point. Everyone wants to make the argument if it is not 100% then it is all crap. That is just dumb. The point is are they reliable indicator of success and they are without a doubt the the vast majority of football teams. Idaho sucks for years they have one good year so everyone points to that one good year and forgets about the horrid previous six or seven...(lets ignore they lost to App, Troy and did not play ArkST). The teams they beat were near them in the recruiting rankings it is not a shock at all managed to beat most they did. Yes they have been towards the bottom year after year in the CONFERENCE recruit rankings but difference between them and the Sun Belt team three spots ahead is overall very litte. The 126th ranked team is not that much different than the 116th. My point is there starts to be a clear difference in teamS in the bottom quarter of the FBS and the next QTR up. There is a reason ArkSt has owned the conference and Idaho has not. Both have competent coaching so the only glaring difference is talent. Yes in each group a few teams under and or over perform but the it is what the MAJORITY does. It is called having a legit sample size.. We kill it for two years we get a new coach that hires a high school coach to run the offense and then folks want to make it a player ranking only argument.... Or few players out of 85 buck the trend and ignore the other 80+ that are performing where they should be. Also nobody has ever said that you just recruit and roll a ball out. Obviously development, injuries, grades, coaching, coaching changes all play apart in wins and losses. Also a two star RS SR QB of course is going to be better than a three star true freshman. Nothing involving humans is ever 100% other than teams low in recruiting rankings saying they dont matter but I digress.

The bottom ranked 26 teams in the total team talent rankings went 131-184 only 8 had a winning record and one went 6-6 in the regular season. Only one shared a conf title in App state....weird right? How is App the only conf winner ..shared conf winner? Why the losing record if recruit rankings dont matter? Why is every G5 conf winner not in the bottom of the recruit rankings but App (shared) and the other team is not.

Again dont be lazy or use asinine individual examples do the math compare results. Break it down, G5 only, P5 only, conf championships, typical conf finish the last few years, wins etc, how ever you want these rankings have a strong correlation to winning and losing.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...tComposite
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2017 10:15 AM by JCGSU.)
06-29-2017 09:25 AM
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JCGSU Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-28-2017 07:53 PM)troutbummike Wrote:  The more I read this, the more I realize App State is screwed. Maybe we should trade spots with LU now before it gets too embarrassing.

Hyperbole, always advances the discussion so well. App is only screwed if next coach is not as good as Satt. Dont let our AD near the hire and they should be ok.
06-29-2017 09:54 AM
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Godzilla Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
TXST adds another big man on the OL! commit lucky number 13.
07-01-2017 06:58 PM
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glsjunior74 Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
Y'all can say recruiting classes don't matter but the classes of Western Michigan, Memphis and Boisie says otherwise. Folks can crow about being the kings of the SBC all day but until we start putting talent on par with the American, MAC and Moutain West we are kidding ourselves
07-01-2017 09:54 PM
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EigenEagle Offline
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RE: Way Too Early Recruiting Rankings
(06-29-2017 09:25 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  Unless you realize most Sun Belt classes are not that far from the top FCS classes....Jacksonville State is ranked 127 and Idaho is ranked 126 in total team talent. So so much for FCS teams being overlooked today. I am sure if the rankings were where they are today five to seven years ago GS teams would have been ranked better. FCS just cant give 85 full schollies but the starting 22+/- could actually have been just as good as low ranked FBS teams which where most Sun Belt teams are. A lot of top FCS recruits have FBS offers some three stars frequently choose FCS schools.

Here's NDSU's national recruiting rankings on 247...
2014: 142
2015: 131
2016: 135
2017: 135

So basically, it's saying NDSU's classes are better than pretty much any FBS team. That's laughable. I know the NDSU fans are annoying but no one objective can really watch them play and take note they are something like 7-2 against FBS teams the last 10 years it's laughable to say they have worse recruiting than any FBS team.

And I know you can just say "well, they obviously don't care enough to do a thorough job on evaluating FCS classes". Ok, fine, but why should I just believe they're going to get it right with G5 teams? It seems to me that the farther you get from the highest rungs of college football the more of a crapshoot that they get.

(07-01-2017 09:54 PM)glsjunior74 Wrote:  Y'all can say recruiting classes don't matter but the classes of Western Michigan, Memphis and Boisie says otherwise. Folks can crow about being the kings of the SBC all day but until we start putting talent on par with the American, MAC and Moutain West we are kidding ourselves

Who is this "we"? We finished ahead of the MAC in the conference ratings last year with the MAC having an Access Bowl team. The Sun Belt has a winning bowl record against the MAC since entering the current alignment of teams.

GS beat the slop out of arguably the two top teams in the MAC in 2015 and very well could've beat WMU last year if we didn't have an offensive coaching staff that turned a unit that lead the country in rushing yards two straight years into a bad offensive unit.
07-02-2017 07:48 AM
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