Funny thing is that Wake Forest counts toward P5....

(06-21-2017 07:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  Perhaps the AD was saying the ACC will allow Syracuse to count Army toward their P5 OOC requirement. They could just be an exception due to geography.

Do you think WAKE & DUKE will let that stand???

If the ACC has already agreed to allow it, then Wake and Duke will just have to get used to it.

Do you guys believe Syracuse really will decide not to schedule a "true" P5 team to go with Army in 2023 and 2024?

(06-21-2017 08:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 07:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  Perhaps the AD was saying the ACC will allow Syracuse to count Army toward their P5 OOC requirement. They could just be an exception due to geography.

Do you think WAKE & DUKE will let that stand???

If the ACC has already agreed to allow it, then Wake and Duke will just have to get used to it.

Duke and Wake are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things. :)

Insofar as there's some kind of requirement to schedule more P5 teams I think all three FBS service academies should count, for the same reason Notre Dame counts.

(06-21-2017 09:41 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Do you guys believe Syracuse really will decide not to schedule a "true" P5 team to go with Army in 2023 and 2024?

TBD....if Dino turns it around and gets Cuse back up to the Top 25 as expected....I bet they try to get a TV game in 23-24. They have a few years to decide.

(06-21-2017 11:34 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 08:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 07:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  Perhaps the AD was saying the ACC will allow Syracuse to count Army toward their P5 OOC requirement. They could just be an exception due to geography.

Do you think WAKE & DUKE will let that stand???

If the ACC has already agreed to allow it, then Wake and Duke will just have to get used to it.

Duke and Wake are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things. :)

Then they should get used to it as they no longer wield the type of influence and voting power that they used to now that the the league is so much larger.

(06-21-2017 09:41 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Do you guys believe Syracuse really will decide not to schedule a "true" P5 team to go with Army in 2023 and 2024?

No, I believe SU will still try to schedule a true P5 in most of those years.

(06-21-2017 06:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  A couple takeaways I surmised

1. you'll see more teams play multiple conference games in September
2. One FCS team a year should still be okay to schedule
3. expect a team like Cuse to schedule G5 teams from the MAC and the I-85/95 corridors
4. Atlantic and Coastal to remain the same for awhile
5. Notre Dame likes where they are (i.e. Indy in FB)

to the Pitt fan...I'll take the SU AD's statement about Army over your opinion that Army doesn't count.

Looks like you're correct.

Replying to @DavidTeelatDP
Is it true Army counts as a P5 for ACC? I don't recall Swofford announcing that?

David Teel‏Verified account @DavidTeelatDP · 56m56 minutes ago
Yes it does. BYU and Notre Dame the others.














(06-21-2017 06:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 03:43 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Don't remember ACC ever saying it officially so not sure he's accurate on Army.

can this also have to do with TV sets watching?

- An ACC team vs. an FCS gets few casual fans watching outside of the team's fanbase.
- An ACC team vs a MAC/SunBelt gets some more casual fans but is not likely an ESPN game.
- AN ACC team vs. Army can get ESPN to broadcast, get onto the Armed Forces Network for overseas serviceman / women and get a lot of casual fans who were in the military and have an affinity for Army.

I think I read somewhere when they voted to stay at the status qou as far as scheduling... staying at 8+1 model (and less monies from ESPN, per Clemson it was not much once divided and shared out) ESPN also wanted them to agree to add Army to BYU status of counting as P5.. and it appears that the ACC voted to count Army

With the exception of the Navy game, Army's ratings are not very good. Most soldiers follow the big state university from their home state, especially when deployed overseas (their sense of state pride swells from afar).

Nobody remembers Swofford announcing anything about Army because... he didn't. This is the first time that decision was made public, as far as I can tell.

The ACC is now in line with the SEC, but still stricter than the Big Ten.

(06-22-2017 07:26 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 09:41 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Do you guys believe Syracuse really will decide not to schedule a "true" P5 team to go with Army in 2023 and 2024?

No, I believe SU will still try to schedule a true P5 in most of those years.

If past scheduling history is any indicator, expect Alabama, Ohio State, and the Green Bay Packers.

(06-22-2017 06:34 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:34 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 08:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 07:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  Perhaps the AD was saying the ACC will allow Syracuse to count Army toward their P5 OOC requirement. They could just be an exception due to geography.

Do you think WAKE & DUKE will let that stand???

If the ACC has already agreed to allow it, then Wake and Duke will just have to get used to it.

Duke and Wake are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things. :)

Then they should get used to it as they no longer wield the type of influence and voting power that they used to now that the the league is so much larger.

I think you'll find that it's Syracuse that needs to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things.

Furthermore, Syracuse and all the other new arrivals need to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are used to playing football games with the service academies frequently and will continue to do so as they please. These games should be afforded the same status as games between Syracuse and Army or Pitt and Notre Dame and so on, but will go on regardless of what anyone thinks of them in any case. Anyone who doesn't like that just needs to get used to it.

(06-22-2017 10:58 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 06:34 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:34 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 08:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 07:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Do you think WAKE & DUKE will let that stand???

If the ACC has already agreed to allow it, then Wake and Duke will just have to get used to it.

Duke and Wake are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things. :)

Then they should get used to it as they no longer wield the type of influence and voting power that they used to now that the the league is so much larger.

I think you'll find that it's Syracuse that needs to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things.

Furthermore, Syracuse and all the other new arrivals need to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are used to playing football games with the service academies frequently and will continue to do so as they please. These games should be afforded the same status as games between Syracuse and Army or Pitt and Notre Dame and so on, but will go on regardless of what anyone thinks of them in any case. Anyone who doesn't like that just needs to get used to it.

I dont think there are any Syracuse fans here complaining about SU playing Army or that Army is viewed as a P5 game. We dont mind playing Army. Its great that Army is viewed as a P5 game! So I dont know why you would think differently. And why do we care if Wake or Duke play the service academies?

Second, you dont think Wake and Duke have to get used to accepting things, but they do. Playing the ACC tourney in NYC is one off the top of my head. Another, both schools had to get used to Louisville being invited to the ACC over Uconn. I know some old school ACC fans in the carolinas, like you, have a hard time dealing with these changes and reduced influence, because you cant just out vote the rest of the conference anymore, but again, get used to it. There likely will be more coming. Have a nice day.

(06-22-2017 12:08 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:58 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 06:34 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:34 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 08:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  If the ACC has already agreed to allow it, then Wake and Duke will just have to get used to it.

Duke and Wake are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things. :)

Then they should get used to it as they no longer wield the type of influence and voting power that they used to now that the the league is so much larger.

I think you'll find that it's Syracuse that needs to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things.

Furthermore, Syracuse and all the other new arrivals need to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are used to playing football games with the service academies frequently and will continue to do so as they please. These games should be afforded the same status as games between Syracuse and Army or Pitt and Notre Dame and so on, but will go on regardless of what anyone thinks of them in any case. Anyone who doesn't like that just needs to get used to it.

I dont think there are any Syracuse fans complaining about playing Army or that Army is viewed as a P5 game. So I dont know why you think differently. Why do we care if Wake or Duke play the service academies?


Second, you dont think Wake and Duke have to get used to things, but they do. Playing the ACC tourney in NYC is one off the top of my head. Another, both schools had to get used to Louisville being invited to the ACC over Uconn. I know some of you old school ACC fans have a problem with these changes and loss of influence, but again, get used to it. There likely will be more coming. Have a nice day.

I fully appreciate that Syracuse and Army have likely played lots of football games, and that many ACC schools likewise have long traditions of playing football games with Notre Dame, Army and Navy. No matter what the newcomers or anyone else says, I (speaking only for myself) consider matchups such as Tech/Navy or Duke/Notre Dame or Syracuse/Army to be of the same status as matchups such as Boston College/Northwestern or Wake/Vanderbilt or South Carolina/Auburn. Anyone who disagrees simply has to get used to it.

As for your other points, I didn't attend the Tournament this year, and don't have enough information to judge whether the experiment of holding it in New York City rather than Greensboro was a success for the ACC overall. I do think it achieved the correct result, and Game 12 was especially satisfying. I'm confused by the remark about UConn. Why would anyone in the ACC ever prefer or have ever preferred UConn over Louisville?

(06-22-2017 01:08 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 12:08 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:58 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 06:34 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:34 PM)opossum Wrote:  Duke and Wake are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things. :)

Then they should get used to it as they no longer wield the type of influence and voting power that they used to now that the the league is so much larger.

I think you'll find that it's Syracuse that needs to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things.

Furthermore, Syracuse and all the other new arrivals need to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are used to playing football games with the service academies frequently and will continue to do so as they please. These games should be afforded the same status as games between Syracuse and Army or Pitt and Notre Dame and so on, but will go on regardless of what anyone thinks of them in any case. Anyone who doesn't like that just needs to get used to it.

I dont think there are any Syracuse fans complaining about playing Army or that Army is viewed as a P5 game. So I dont know why you think differently. Why do we care if Wake or Duke play the service academies?


Second, you dont think Wake and Duke have to get used to things, but they do. Playing the ACC tourney in NYC is one off the top of my head. Another, both schools had to get used to Louisville being invited to the ACC over Uconn. I know some of you old school ACC fans have a problem with these changes and loss of influence, but again, get used to it. There likely will be more coming. Have a nice day.

I fully appreciate that Syracuse and Army have likely played lots of football games, and that many ACC schools likewise have long traditions of playing football games with Notre Dame, Army and Navy. No matter what the newcomers or anyone else says, I (speaking only for myself) consider matchups such as Tech/Navy or Duke/Notre Dame or Syracuse/Army to be of the same status as matchups such as Boston College/Northwestern or Wake/Vanderbilt or South Carolina/Auburn. Anyone who disagrees simply has to get used to it.

As for your other points, I didn't attend the Tournament this year, and don't have enough information to judge whether the experiment of holding it in New York City rather than Greensboro was a success for the ACC overall. I do think it achieved the correct result, and Game 12 was especially satisfying. I'm confused by the remark about UConn. Why would anyone in the ACC ever prefer or have ever preferred UConn over Louisville?

Regarding Uconn, I thought I read somewhere, among other rumors that the likes of Duke, Wake and UNC were favoring Uconn over Louisville. But then Clemson and FSU flexed their muscle and demanded Louisville.

FWIW, I consider Furman vs. Wofford to be far and away the best rivalry game in SC and bigger than the Super Bowl, but I'd be amazed if any more than ~6 people on the planet care.

(06-22-2017 01:52 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 01:08 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 12:08 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:58 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 06:34 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Then they should get used to it as they no longer wield the type of influence and voting power that they used to now that the the league is so much larger.

I think you'll find that it's Syracuse that needs to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things.

Furthermore, Syracuse and all the other new arrivals need to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are used to playing football games with the service academies frequently and will continue to do so as they please. These games should be afforded the same status as games between Syracuse and Army or Pitt and Notre Dame and so on, but will go on regardless of what anyone thinks of them in any case. Anyone who doesn't like that just needs to get used to it.

I dont think there are any Syracuse fans complaining about playing Army or that Army is viewed as a P5 game. So I dont know why you think differently. Why do we care if Wake or Duke play the service academies?


Second, you dont think Wake and Duke have to get used to things, but they do. Playing the ACC tourney in NYC is one off the top of my head. Another, both schools had to get used to Louisville being invited to the ACC over Uconn. I know some of you old school ACC fans have a problem with these changes and loss of influence, but again, get used to it. There likely will be more coming. Have a nice day.

I fully appreciate that Syracuse and Army have likely played lots of football games, and that many ACC schools likewise have long traditions of playing football games with Notre Dame, Army and Navy. No matter what the newcomers or anyone else says, I (speaking only for myself) consider matchups such as Tech/Navy or Duke/Notre Dame or Syracuse/Army to be of the same status as matchups such as Boston College/Northwestern or Wake/Vanderbilt or South Carolina/Auburn. Anyone who disagrees simply has to get used to it.

As for your other points, I didn't attend the Tournament this year, and don't have enough information to judge whether the experiment of holding it in New York City rather than Greensboro was a success for the ACC overall. I do think it achieved the correct result, and Game 12 was especially satisfying. I'm confused by the remark about UConn. Why would anyone in the ACC ever prefer or have ever preferred UConn over Louisville?

Regarding Uconn, I thought I read somewhere, among other rumors that the likes of Duke, Wake and UNC were favoring Uconn over Louisville. But then Clemson and FSU flexed their muscle and demanded Louisville.

I believe Duke and UNC have opposed every expansion since George Tech, with the possible exception of Notre Dame. Wake has not. I know Duke and UNC's position had unfortunate consequences for Syracuse for 8 years (to Virginia Tech's benefit) but it worked out for Syracuse, Pitt and Virginia Tech in the end.

After Maryland left I'm sure UConn was considered, but aside from geography (which went out the window when Notre Dame joined) I can't think of any reason why Duke, Wake or UNC would have preferred UConn over Louisville. Women's basketball?

I can't deny that I've heard the same rumors but they never made any sense at all to me. I think UConn fans with grandiose ideas about their sudden rise to Division I-A and a BCS AQ conference probably started them.

(06-22-2017 08:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 03:43 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Don't remember ACC ever saying it officially so not sure he's accurate on Army.

can this also have to do with TV sets watching?

- An ACC team vs. an FCS gets few casual fans watching outside of the team's fanbase.
- An ACC team vs a MAC/SunBelt gets some more casual fans but is not likely an ESPN game.
- AN ACC team vs. Army can get ESPN to broadcast, get onto the Armed Forces Network for overseas serviceman / women and get a lot of casual fans who were in the military and have an affinity for Army.

I think I read somewhere when they voted to stay at the status qou as far as scheduling... staying at 8+1 model (and less monies from ESPN, per Clemson it was not much once divided and shared out) ESPN also wanted them to agree to add Army to BYU status of counting as P5.. and it appears that the ACC voted to count Army

With the exception of the Navy game, Army's ratings are not very good. Most soldiers follow the big state university from their home state, especially when deployed overseas (their sense of state pride swells from afar).

I kindly disagree, when I was stationed in Germany 1997-2001 A lot of folks would watch Army on AFN. I do agree with you that a lot of enlisted soldiers who grew up Bama, Gator, Buckeye on and on, stayed loyal and crazed to those teams, however what I noticed a lot of those same fans would watch and follow Army as that would become their second favorite team....

Also I have included a College Football TV Ratings for every game... To my point...

- An ACC team vs. an FCS gets few casual fans watching outside of the team's fanbase.
- An ACC team vs a MAC/SunBelt gets some more casual fans but is not likely an ESPN game.
- AN ACC team vs. Army can get ESPN to broadcast, get onto the Armed Forces Network for overseas serviceman / women and get a lot of casual fans who were in the military and have an affinity for Army.

These games do not even count the AFN viewers.... However you will Notice the Army/North Texas Bowl game had a TV Rating of...1.615M which was larger than the following Bowls:

N.C. State vs Vanderbilt
WKU vs Memphis
Idaho vs Colorado St.

IN Week 11
The Army vs ND game drew more than the following games in the same head to head time slot:
Texas Tech vs Okla. St.
Illinois vs Wisconsin
GT vs VT

I am not saying that ARMY has crazed fans like BAMA, however I am saying that Army has a P5 following when compared to the WF/Vandys/Illinois of the P5 world... and when you factor in the Armed Forces Network for overseas serviceman / women and get a lot of casual fans who were in the military and have an affinity for Army. It will be good for the ACCN just like it is for the SECN to play Army over an FCS/ MAC/SunBelt teams... TV Ratings matter!!!!


Link
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

(06-21-2017 08:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 07:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  Perhaps the AD was saying the ACC will allow Syracuse to count Army toward their P5 OOC requirement. They could just be an exception due to geography.

Do you think WAKE & DUKE will let that stand???

If the ACC has already agreed to allow it, then Wake and Duke will just have to get used to it.

My point was and is that Duke and Wake have Army on the schedule and they will want that game to count as a P5!!!

(06-22-2017 03:40 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 01:52 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 01:08 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 12:08 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:58 AM)opossum Wrote:  I think you'll find that it's Syracuse that needs to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are not used to being told that they just have to get used to accepting things.

Furthermore, Syracuse and all the other new arrivals need to get used to the fact that Wake and Duke are used to playing football games with the service academies frequently and will continue to do so as they please. These games should be afforded the same status as games between Syracuse and Army or Pitt and Notre Dame and so on, but will go on regardless of what anyone thinks of them in any case. Anyone who doesn't like that just needs to get used to it.

I dont think there are any Syracuse fans complaining about playing Army or that Army is viewed as a P5 game. So I dont know why you think differently. Why do we care if Wake or Duke play the service academies?


Second, you dont think Wake and Duke have to get used to things, but they do. Playing the ACC tourney in NYC is one off the top of my head. Another, both schools had to get used to Louisville being invited to the ACC over Uconn. I know some of you old school ACC fans have a problem with these changes and loss of influence, but again, get used to it. There likely will be more coming. Have a nice day.

I fully appreciate that Syracuse and Army have likely played lots of football games, and that many ACC schools likewise have long traditions of playing football games with Notre Dame, Army and Navy. No matter what the newcomers or anyone else says, I (speaking only for myself) consider matchups such as Tech/Navy or Duke/Notre Dame or Syracuse/Army to be of the same status as matchups such as Boston College/Northwestern or Wake/Vanderbilt or South Carolina/Auburn. Anyone who disagrees simply has to get used to it.

As for your other points, I didn't attend the Tournament this year, and don't have enough information to judge whether the experiment of holding it in New York City rather than Greensboro was a success for the ACC overall. I do think it achieved the correct result, and Game 12 was especially satisfying. I'm confused by the remark about UConn. Why would anyone in the ACC ever prefer or have ever preferred UConn over Louisville?

Regarding Uconn, I thought I read somewhere, among other rumors that the likes of Duke, Wake and UNC were favoring Uconn over Louisville. But then Clemson and FSU flexed their muscle and demanded Louisville.

I believe Duke and UNC have opposed every expansion since George Tech, with the possible exception of Notre Dame. Wake has not. I know Duke and UNC's position had unfortunate consequences for Syracuse for 8 years (to Virginia Tech's benefit) but it worked out for Syracuse, Pitt and Virginia Tech in the end.

After Maryland left I'm sure UConn was considered, but aside from geography (which went out the window when Notre Dame joined) I can't think of any reason why Duke, Wake or UNC would have preferred UConn over Louisville. Women's basketball?

I can't deny that I've heard the same rumors but they never made any sense at all to me. I think UConn fans with grandiose ideas about their sudden rise to Division I-A and a BCS AQ conference probably started them.

There's no denying UCONN superior academics when compared to Louisville. I have heard rumors that coach Pitino & coach K talked & that he favored Louisville inclusion. The decent over Louisville, if any existed, was purely over academics I believe. Cincinnati was also considered & I believe they finished second in the voting. I don't believe that UCONN was even brought to a vote. According to rumors, Louisville had already been in talks with FSU & possibly Clemson about the Big 12. There was likely a relationship already beginning there.