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Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
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ArQ Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 11:12 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:01 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  If not, why?

30 NCAA appearances
11 Sweet Sixteens
9 Elite Eights
5 Final Fours
1 National Championship (3x runner-up)

Allen Iverson
Patrick Ewing
Alonzo Mourning
Dikembe Mutombo
Roy Hibbert
etc. etc.

Elite private institution in the nation's capital.

Secondary question, what keeps them from being permanently elite in basketball?

I'd have to vote no on that.

They're in the same boat as Indiana for example, past glory put them into the category, but the shine of definitely off.

Seems the only TRUE blue bloods left are Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky.

Two previous blue bloods find their blood is red now: Indiana and UCLA.
06-20-2017 12:34 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
No, they aren't
06-20-2017 12:53 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
The designation of "Blue Blood" implies sustained success for a very long period of time. Like half a century of time or more. And excellence in nearly every decade of that long time.

Georgetown, and UConn as well, are beginning to look like programs that were a product of their conference more than the other way around. Neither were major players before the formation of the Big East, and they have declined since its breakup. UConn held on longer, and may yet hang on in the AAC (or nBE). But judging by the angst among UConn fans about whether they can return to their recent glory in the AAC, they may need help to avoid Georgetown's fate.
06-20-2017 01:56 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 01:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  The designation of "Blue Blood" implies sustained success for a very long period of time. Like half a century of time or more. And excellence in nearly every decade of that long time.

Georgetown, and UConn as well, are beginning to look like programs that were a product of their conference more than the other way around. Neither were major players before the formation of the Big East, and they have declined since its breakup. UConn held on longer, and may yet hang on in the AAC (or nBE). But judging by the angst among UConn fans about whether they can return to their recent glory in the AAC, they may need help to avoid Georgetown's fate.

I think if the ACC were smart, they'd work out a deal to bring in Georgetown.
06-20-2017 02:05 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 01:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  The designation of "Blue Blood" implies sustained success for a very long period of time. Like half a century of time or more. And excellence in nearly every decade of that long time.

Georgetown, and UConn as well, are beginning to look like programs that were a product of their conference more than the other way around. Neither were major players before the formation of the Big East, and they have declined since its breakup. UConn held on longer, and may yet hang on in the AAC (or nBE). But judging by the angst among UConn fans about whether they can return to their recent glory in the AAC, they may need help to avoid Georgetown's fate.

What break up? The big east looks fine to me.
06-20-2017 02:37 PM
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clpp01 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 10:57 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No. The only universally recognized Blue Bloods are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA.

Georgetown does not have the resume of those schools, the $$$$, the following, etc. In fact Georgetown is behind other schools knocking on the door (ie. Louisville, Connecticut, Arizona). What's more, Georgetown hasn't been Georgetown since Big John left and are falling even further down the hierarchy.

I don't get this Arizona love and putting them up near the top echelon. They have won one championship. They are a constant underachiever, just look at this year. Xavier with their best player out for the season beat them in the NCAA's. They get big time recruits every year and get lofty rankings every pre-season and constantly underachieve. Arizona never had the level of dominance that Georgetown had at one point. At least the Hoyas were very close to 3 titles in 3 years.

Arizona might not have the 5 year peak that Georgetown had 30-35 years ago but the mid 1980s aren't coming back anytime soon. You say Arizona has been underachieving yet seem to ignore that during that same time frame Georgetown has been largely irrelevant but if you look at each program's complete history you will see that Arizona definitely belongs in the conversation. Overall Georgetown has an additional F4 over UofA and from what I could find the AAs are equal between the two, Arizona holds advantage in wins, tournament appearances, tourney wins, S16s, E8s and both # of weeks ranked in AP and # of times ranked in the EOY AP rankings.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2017 03:17 PM by clpp01.)
06-20-2017 03:16 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 03:16 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:57 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No. The only universally recognized Blue Bloods are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA.

Georgetown does not have the resume of those schools, the $$$$, the following, etc. In fact Georgetown is behind other schools knocking on the door (ie. Louisville, Connecticut, Arizona). What's more, Georgetown hasn't been Georgetown since Big John left and are falling even further down the hierarchy.

I don't get this Arizona love and putting them up near the top echelon. They have won one championship. They are a constant underachiever, just look at this year. Xavier with their best player out for the season beat them in the NCAA's. They get big time recruits every year and get lofty rankings every pre-season and constantly underachieve. Arizona never had the level of dominance that Georgetown had at one point. At least the Hoyas were very close to 3 titles in 3 years.

Arizona might not have the 5 year peak that Georgetown had 30-35 years ago but the mid 1980s aren't coming back anytime soon. You say Arizona has been underachieving yet seem to ignore that during that same time frame Georgetown has been largely irrelevant but if you look at each program's complete history you will see that Arizona definitely belongs in the conversation. Overall Georgetown has an additional F4 over UofA and from what I could find the AAs are equal between the two, Arizona holds advantage in wins, tournament appearances, tourney wins, S16s, E8s and both # of weeks ranked in AP and # of times ranked in the EOY AP rankings.

I wasn't comparing the two. It was an independent thought that Arizona underachieves and gets far too much love/respect than they deserve. The late 90's aren't coming back either. Losing to squads they are clearly more talented than almost every year in March means that UA isn't even in that second tier.

Since you compared the 2, it's easier to be ranked longer when you play in a much easier conference.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2017 03:32 PM by RutgersGuy.)
06-20-2017 03:30 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Isn't that Georgetown Final Four from like the 40's? Unless they were dominating the NIT back then, Georgetown and Arizona are basically even when it comes to Final Four appearances.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2017 03:31 PM by _C2_.)
06-20-2017 03:30 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 03:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't that Georgetown Final Four from like the 40's? Unless they were dominating the NIT back then, Georgetown and Arizona are basically even when it comes to Final Four appearances.

Wait, so if Georgetown won that championship game that wouldn't count towards their championships to you?
06-20-2017 03:47 PM
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clpp01 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 03:30 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:16 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:57 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No. The only universally recognized Blue Bloods are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA.

Georgetown does not have the resume of those schools, the $$$$, the following, etc. In fact Georgetown is behind other schools knocking on the door (ie. Louisville, Connecticut, Arizona). What's more, Georgetown hasn't been Georgetown since Big John left and are falling even further down the hierarchy.

I don't get this Arizona love and putting them up near the top echelon. They have won one championship. They are a constant underachiever, just look at this year. Xavier with their best player out for the season beat them in the NCAA's. They get big time recruits every year and get lofty rankings every pre-season and constantly underachieve. Arizona never had the level of dominance that Georgetown had at one point. At least the Hoyas were very close to 3 titles in 3 years.

Arizona might not have the 5 year peak that Georgetown had 30-35 years ago but the mid 1980s aren't coming back anytime soon. You say Arizona has been underachieving yet seem to ignore that during that same time frame Georgetown has been largely irrelevant but if you look at each program's complete history you will see that Arizona definitely belongs in the conversation. Overall Georgetown has an additional F4 over UofA and from what I could find the AAs are equal between the two, Arizona holds advantage in wins, tournament appearances, tourney wins, S16s, E8s and both # of weeks ranked in AP and # of times ranked in the EOY AP rankings.

I wasn't comparing the two. It was an independent thought that Arizona underachieves and gets far too much love/respect than they deserve. The late 90's aren't coming back either. Losing to squads they are clearly more talented than almost every year in March means that UA isn't even in that second tier.

Since you compared the 2, it's easier to be ranked longer when you play in a much easier conference.

It's also easier when you aren't going 14-18 against a weaker SOS.

What's with this nonsense of losing to inferior teams every year? 2017 fits but it is really the only year you can claim during the Miller era, Duke just lost to South Carolina judging by how you view Arizona perhaps they need to turn in their blue blood card?
06-20-2017 04:09 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 03:47 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't that Georgetown Final Four from like the 40's? Unless they were dominating the NIT back then, Georgetown and Arizona are basically even when it comes to Final Four appearances.

Wait, so if Georgetown won that championship game that wouldn't count towards their championships to you?

Yes and no. And it's not that it was a long time ago so much as it came at a time when going to the NCAA's and NIT was like going to a bowl game. Winning either didn't crown you a consensus champ and if anything, the NIT was the more credible champ the majority of the time until the late fifties at the earliest. Heck, you could win both in the same year and one team did, CCNY in 1950 IIRC.
06-20-2017 04:28 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 04:09 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:30 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:16 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:57 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No. The only universally recognized Blue Bloods are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA.

Georgetown does not have the resume of those schools, the $$$$, the following, etc. In fact Georgetown is behind other schools knocking on the door (ie. Louisville, Connecticut, Arizona). What's more, Georgetown hasn't been Georgetown since Big John left and are falling even further down the hierarchy.

I don't get this Arizona love and putting them up near the top echelon. They have won one championship. They are a constant underachiever, just look at this year. Xavier with their best player out for the season beat them in the NCAA's. They get big time recruits every year and get lofty rankings every pre-season and constantly underachieve. Arizona never had the level of dominance that Georgetown had at one point. At least the Hoyas were very close to 3 titles in 3 years.

Arizona might not have the 5 year peak that Georgetown had 30-35 years ago but the mid 1980s aren't coming back anytime soon. You say Arizona has been underachieving yet seem to ignore that during that same time frame Georgetown has been largely irrelevant but if you look at each program's complete history you will see that Arizona definitely belongs in the conversation. Overall Georgetown has an additional F4 over UofA and from what I could find the AAs are equal between the two, Arizona holds advantage in wins, tournament appearances, tourney wins, S16s, E8s and both # of weeks ranked in AP and # of times ranked in the EOY AP rankings.

I wasn't comparing the two. It was an independent thought that Arizona underachieves and gets far too much love/respect than they deserve. The late 90's aren't coming back either. Losing to squads they are clearly more talented than almost every year in March means that UA isn't even in that second tier.

Since you compared the 2, it's easier to be ranked longer when you play in a much easier conference.

It's also easier when you aren't going 14-18 against a weaker SOS.

What's with this nonsense of losing to inferior teams every year? 2017 fits but it is really the only year you can claim during the Miller era, Duke just lost to South Carolina judging by how you view Arizona perhaps they need to turn in their blue blood card?

While Duke lays duds in the Tourney, they actually win it too. Arizona, I annually think they will get far, and they don't, in the Miller era. This was the first year I picked against them with Xavier, and like clockwork, another team preyed on an average offense and takes out Zona.
06-20-2017 04:47 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 04:09 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:30 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:16 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:57 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No. The only universally recognized Blue Bloods are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA.

Georgetown does not have the resume of those schools, the $$$$, the following, etc. In fact Georgetown is behind other schools knocking on the door (ie. Louisville, Connecticut, Arizona). What's more, Georgetown hasn't been Georgetown since Big John left and are falling even further down the hierarchy.

I don't get this Arizona love and putting them up near the top echelon. They have won one championship. They are a constant underachiever, just look at this year. Xavier with their best player out for the season beat them in the NCAA's. They get big time recruits every year and get lofty rankings every pre-season and constantly underachieve. Arizona never had the level of dominance that Georgetown had at one point. At least the Hoyas were very close to 3 titles in 3 years.

Arizona might not have the 5 year peak that Georgetown had 30-35 years ago but the mid 1980s aren't coming back anytime soon. You say Arizona has been underachieving yet seem to ignore that during that same time frame Georgetown has been largely irrelevant but if you look at each program's complete history you will see that Arizona definitely belongs in the conversation. Overall Georgetown has an additional F4 over UofA and from what I could find the AAs are equal between the two, Arizona holds advantage in wins, tournament appearances, tourney wins, S16s, E8s and both # of weeks ranked in AP and # of times ranked in the EOY AP rankings.

I wasn't comparing the two. It was an independent thought that Arizona underachieves and gets far too much love/respect than they deserve. The late 90's aren't coming back either. Losing to squads they are clearly more talented than almost every year in March means that UA isn't even in that second tier.

Since you compared the 2, it's easier to be ranked longer when you play in a much easier conference.

It's also easier when you aren't going 14-18 against a weaker SOS.

What's with this nonsense of losing to inferior teams every year? 2017 fits but it is really the only year you can claim during the Miller era, Duke just lost to South Carolina judging by how you view Arizona perhaps they need to turn in their blue blood card?

Not saying they are good now but they have been competing in a tougher conference for over 30 years. Even now the BE is ranked higher than the P12 every year. It's harder to stay ranked when you played in a murders row of the former BE. You could play 5 straight conference games of ranked opponents with 3 of them being on the road. You don't get that in the P10/12.

Also Duke, UK, KU and UNC get a lot more leeway because of the many NC's and FF's they have. UA isn't at that level so they don't get that leeway.

I would put Louisville, Villanova, Indiana, UCLA, MSU, UConn and Florida in that next group.
06-20-2017 05:06 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Houston has more Final Four appearances than Arizona and UH has almost zero basketball history in the last generation.
06-20-2017 05:45 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Georgetown doesn't have the rabid fans of the true blue bloods that is the problem.

A good portion of their alumni don't even care. It's a politics school not a basketball school.
06-20-2017 08:24 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Georgetown was big time when college basketball became big time and had a decade plus great run so they will have an easier time bouncing back. In my own opinion Marquette, Creighton, Providence and Seton Hall could carry the Big East for a while, but when Georgetown bounces back they will be big time right away. Georgetown is a primo name.

But not blue blood. Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC. That's pretty much it.
06-20-2017 08:31 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Indiana, Michigan State, Syracuse, UCLA I'd put also into the bluest of blood category.

It doesn't matter though because 8 bluebloods vs. 360 D1 schools isn't enough to control the NCAA tournament.

In football its the programs with 70k+ seaters. There are 30 of those and they to a large extent are the CFB football scene, with some smaller P5's like Miami or Oregon while they're hot.
06-20-2017 08:41 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 10:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No. The only universally recognized Blue Bloods are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA.

Georgetown does not have the resume of those schools, the $$$$, the following, etc. In fact Georgetown is behind other schools knocking on the door (ie. Louisville, Connecticut, Arizona). What's more, Georgetown hasn't been Georgetown since Big John left and are falling even further down the hierarchy.

Louisville and UCONN busted that door down years ago.
06-20-2017 08:58 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Blue blood? No. One of the biggest and strongest basketball brands? Absolutely.
06-20-2017 11:36 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(06-20-2017 04:09 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:30 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 03:16 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:57 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 10:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No. The only universally recognized Blue Bloods are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA.

Georgetown does not have the resume of those schools, the $$$$, the following, etc. In fact Georgetown is behind other schools knocking on the door (ie. Louisville, Connecticut, Arizona). What's more, Georgetown hasn't been Georgetown since Big John left and are falling even further down the hierarchy.

I don't get this Arizona love and putting them up near the top echelon. They have won one championship. They are a constant underachiever, just look at this year. Xavier with their best player out for the season beat them in the NCAA's. They get big time recruits every year and get lofty rankings every pre-season and constantly underachieve. Arizona never had the level of dominance that Georgetown had at one point. At least the Hoyas were very close to 3 titles in 3 years.

Arizona might not have the 5 year peak that Georgetown had 30-35 years ago but the mid 1980s aren't coming back anytime soon. You say Arizona has been underachieving yet seem to ignore that during that same time frame Georgetown has been largely irrelevant but if you look at each program's complete history you will see that Arizona definitely belongs in the conversation. Overall Georgetown has an additional F4 over UofA and from what I could find the AAs are equal between the two, Arizona holds advantage in wins, tournament appearances, tourney wins, S16s, E8s and both # of weeks ranked in AP and # of times ranked in the EOY AP rankings.

I wasn't comparing the two. It was an independent thought that Arizona underachieves and gets far too much love/respect than they deserve. The late 90's aren't coming back either. Losing to squads they are clearly more talented than almost every year in March means that UA isn't even in that second tier.

Since you compared the 2, it's easier to be ranked longer when you play in a much easier conference.

It's also easier when you aren't going 14-18 against a weaker SOS.

What's with this nonsense of losing to inferior teams every year? 2017 fits but it is really the only year you can claim during the Miller era, Duke just lost to South Carolina judging by how you view Arizona perhaps they need to turn in their blue blood card?

Didn't South Carolina make it to the Final 4 this year. Not a shabby year for South Carolina and not a bad loss for Duke against them this year either. 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot
06-21-2017 12:09 AM
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