(06-20-2017 03:18 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:17 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  The leftovers aren't going to the AAC. Big 12 brand name >>>>> The American.

Does it really matter, at that point would the B12 keep a NYD/NYE bowl? Or become part of the G6? I do think the B12 would replace the AAC has top G program.

Could see the following happen in the next CFP. Basically assuring P4 conferences and CCG become the quarter finals. The P4 gets two teams every year and three teams every two years if they make the CFP. G5 Champ/Highest Indy is on rotation playing in the none tie in bowls three times every four years.

Rose (B10 vs PAC)
Sugar (SEC vs ACC)
Orange (B10 #2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Fiesta (Pac #2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Peach (ACC#2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Cotton (SEC#2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)

Semis Rotatations.
Rose and Sugar
Orange and Fiesta
Cotton and Peach

G5/Indy Wash, Rinse and Repeat every four years.
Orange (B10 #2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Fiesta (Pac #2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Peach (ACC#2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Cotton (SEC#2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)

No. The politics to let the 4 teams go will get in a way. There will have to be a deal to allow the 4 to join another conference while the Big 12 stays as a P5 conference, and keep their bowl games. If there is no deal? The four can't leave. West Virginia could leave because they do not have a little sister holding them back.

(06-20-2017 04:32 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  For those speculating who these teams might be. We ALREADY KNOW who the names were that were being leaked as finalists. Yet I still see these outlandish names being thrown about as if suddenly now they'd become candidates. We know who the finalists were last year and they include: USF (made a great presentation by the way), UCF, Houston, Cincinnati, UConn, BYU, CSU, and a couple others I am forgetting. Those were the list. No ECU, No Boise, No Memphis, No Temple, No SDSU, No Western Kentucky, No Navy, etc. etc. etc. They just flat out either weren't candidates or weren't finalists. Go back and reread the articles and refresh your mind if you need to.

The issue is you are losing 2 of the biggest football monsters from the Big 12. Oklahoma and Texas
The monster program from the G5 right now is Boise State. At this point, what is left of the Big 12 can't be picky, but to add the strong football schools to even be considered a P5. UCF and USF does not have the history or strength in football yet. UConn. is unlikely to be added because they are outlier. SMU and RICE would add too many privates in the conference along with BYU and TCU. We know there are different mind sets between private and publics which caused the issues with the MVC and the old Big East.

(06-20-2017 05:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 03:18 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:17 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  The leftovers aren't going to the AAC. Big 12 brand name >>>>> The American.

Does it really matter, at that point would the B12 keep a NYD/NYE bowl? Or become part of the G6? I do think the B12 would replace the AAC has top G program.

Could see the following happen in the next CFP. Basically assuring P4 conferences and CCG become the quarter finals. The P4 gets two teams every year and three teams every two years if they make the CFP. G5 Champ/Highest Indy is on rotation playing in the none tie in bowls three times every four years.

Rose (B10 vs PAC)
Sugar (SEC vs ACC)
Orange (B10 #2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Fiesta (Pac #2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Peach (ACC#2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Cotton (SEC#2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)

Semis Rotatations.
Rose and Sugar
Orange and Fiesta
Cotton and Peach

G5/Indy Wash, Rinse and Repeat every four years.
Orange (B10 #2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Fiesta (Pac #2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Peach (ACC#2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Cotton (SEC#2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)

No. The politics to let the 4 teams go will get in a way. There will have to be a deal to allow the 4 to join another conference while the Big 12 stays as a P5 conference, and keep their bowl games. If there is no deal? The four can't leave. West Virginia could leave because they do not have a little sister holding them back.

Looking at the time frame, 2025 is when the GOR expire. 2026 would be the last year of the CFP and next round of bowl contracts. The B12 could be looking at having a lame duck status much like the AAC the last year with the BCS. I highly doubt we see any movement or talks until 2024. Seven years seems like a long time, but the closer to the end of GOR, less cost to leave.

The problem is what will the TV contract money look like? Lets say it is just UT, TT, OU and OSU to pack 12. Does bringing any of the schools mentioned keep the payment anywhere near what the B12's current contract?

(06-20-2017 04:32 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  For those speculating who these teams might be. We ALREADY KNOW who the names were that were being leaked as finalists. Yet I still see these outlandish names being thrown about as if suddenly now they'd become candidates. We know who the finalists were last year and they include: USF (made a great presentation by the way), UCF, Houston, Cincinnati, UConn, BYU, CSU, and a couple others I am forgetting. Those were the list. No ECU, No Boise, No Memphis, No Temple, No SDSU, No Western Kentucky, No Navy, etc. etc. etc. They just flat out either weren't candidates or weren't finalists. Go back and reread the articles and refresh your mind if you need to.

The list will change when the composition of the B12 changes. That list was heavily tilted toward schools the academic leadership of Texas, OU, KU, and ISU would approve of. So Tulane, Rice, and UConn were on the list, while Memphis, UNLV, Boise State, and ECU were not. BYU was the only consensus P ready school, but then the Baylor thing happened and the LGBT issues got pushed to the fore.

How many on the list would still clamor to get in, when the headliners are Baylor, K State and West Virginia? Would Colorado State, Rice, BYU or UConn still be as gung ho? I think not. This list would be revised, with a focus on athletics instead of academics.

(06-20-2017 05:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 04:32 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  For those speculating who these teams might be. We ALREADY KNOW who the names were that were being leaked as finalists. Yet I still see these outlandish names being thrown about as if suddenly now they'd become candidates. We know who the finalists were last year and they include: USF (made a great presentation by the way), UCF, Houston, Cincinnati, UConn, BYU, CSU, and a couple others I am forgetting. Those were the list. No ECU, No Boise, No Memphis, No Temple, No SDSU, No Western Kentucky, No Navy, etc. etc. etc. They just flat out either weren't candidates or weren't finalists. Go back and reread the articles and refresh your mind if you need to.

The issue is you are losing 2 of the biggest football monsters from the Big 12. Oklahoma and Texas
The monster program from the G5 right now is Boise State. At this point, what is left of the Big 12 can't be picky, but to add the strong football schools to even be considered a P5. UCF and USF does not have the history or strength in football yet. UConn. is unlikely to be added because they are outlier. SMU and RICE would add too many privates in the conference along with BYU and TCU. We know there are different mind sets between private and publics which caused the issues with the MVC and the old Big East.

Too bad your logic was still wrong when they picked the finalists a few months ago...

(06-20-2017 09:17 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  The leftovers aren't going to the AAC. Big 12 brand name >>>>> The American.

Plus to be in the B12 even if its only with Oklahoma State, K-State and Iowa St is much better for Houston than being in there with UConn, Temple and Navy with the AAC.

While UCF and USF football programs are young they are HUGE schools with growing alumni bases, in major cities, and bring a natural rivalry. USF spent almost a decade in a BCS conference and at one point was ranked 2nd in the nation while UCF made a BCS bowl on its first and only try.

For the people thinking some of us should go go back and reread old articles, I'd say they need to go back and reread the question.

This is about what the Big XII would do if 4 schools LEFT the conference and needed to rebuild, NOT what schools they looked at for expansion. Expansion would tend to center around markets, rebuilding around reputation.

If you're going to rebuild with a snowball's chance in hell of competing with the other conferences for bowl games and more specifically NY6 bowl games, you need schools with some sort of tradition or a who are a known quantity. Big time bowl games and their sponsors aren't going to go all in on some new kid on the block who MIGHT have "growing" fan base.

That's why adding a Boise or a BYU makes more sense than a couple of the Johnny Come Latelys

(06-20-2017 05:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 03:18 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:17 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  The leftovers aren't going to the AAC. Big 12 brand name >>>>> The American.

Does it really matter, at that point would the B12 keep a NYD/NYE bowl? Or become part of the G6? I do think the B12 would replace the AAC has top G program.

Could see the following happen in the next CFP. Basically assuring P4 conferences and CCG become the quarter finals. The P4 gets two teams every year and three teams every two years if they make the CFP. G5 Champ/Highest Indy is on rotation playing in the none tie in bowls three times every four years.

Rose (B10 vs PAC)
Sugar (SEC vs ACC)
Orange (B10 #2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Fiesta (Pac #2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Peach (ACC#2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Cotton (SEC#2 vs Highest G6 Champ/Indy or At Large)

Semis Rotatations.
Rose and Sugar
Orange and Fiesta
Cotton and Peach

G5/Indy Wash, Rinse and Repeat every four years.
Orange (B10 #2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Fiesta (Pac #2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Peach (ACC#2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)
Cotton (SEC#2 vs Highest G5 Champ/Indy or At Large)

No. The politics to let the 4 teams go will get in a way. There will have to be a deal to allow the 4 to join another conference while the Big 12 stays as a P5 conference, and keep their bowl games. If there is no deal? The four can't leave. West Virginia could leave because they do not have a little sister holding them back.

The B12 at the moment is earning a full revenue share from the CFP, has its champ play in the Sugar Bowl vs. SEC #1 and is part of the autonomy 5 in voting rights.

What I see happening is a continuation of a spot in the Sugar Bowl vs. at-large. Continued treatment as a P5 and voting rights. But they'll earning more of a minimum share from the CFP and roughly 1/2 as much TV revenue per school. They'll be more like a tweener conference, a level the AAC dreams to achieve.

If this is the loss....

Kansas
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas Tech

I think back to 12 is workable.

Brigham Young (FB-Only, WCC)
Air Force (FB-Only, WCC)
Houston
SMU
Memphis
Cincinnati

North: BYU, AFA, K-State, Iowa St, Cincinnati, WVU
South: Oklahoma St, Memphis, Baylor, Houston, TCU, SMU

Surprising to some, I think SMU could get some real consideration because of travel and that it's basketball program has become consistently strong.

I also think Air Force would be a nice fit into the B12 as a FB-Only school with other sports going to the WCC. WCC then at 11 goes to a 20 game men's basketball schedule.

(06-20-2017 07:59 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  For the people thinking some of us should go go back and reread old articles, I'd say they need to go back and reread the question.

This is about what the Big XII would do if 4 schools LEFT the conference and needed to rebuild, NOT what schools they looked at for expansion. Expansion would tend to center around markets, rebuilding around reputation.

If you're going to rebuild with a snowball's chance in hell of competing with the other conferences for bowl games and more specifically NY6 bowl games, you need schools with some sort of tradition or a who are a known quantity. Big time bowl games and their sponsors aren't going to go all in on some new kid on the block who MIGHT have "growing" fan base.

That's why adding a Boise or a BYU makes more sense than a couple of the Johnny Come Latelys

I'm not seeing Boise in a good position for the B12 as they are further west than BYU who some think is too far west.

Stadium Size:

Brigham Young 63,470 (record 66,247)
Air Force 46,692 (record 56,409)
Boise State 36,387 (record 36,864)

Historically speaking, Air Force was the #2 program after BYU in the WAC and had the #2 attendance. They've been able to put in the stadium 20,000 more fans than what Boise State can fit.

If the goal is to maintain the major conference image Air Force does that better than Boise State IMO.

(06-19-2017 09:27 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  I believe it takes 8 votes for the Big 12 to disband.

We could see the 8 schools not named Baylor and West Virginia merge with the Pac 12 and solve each other's network problem.

In that case, Baylor and West Virginia join the American.

Trust me when I say, "WVU will NEVER join the AAC." Seriously.

#1) WVU will land on its feet in a "Power" conference...they have too much to offer not to.
#2) IF WVU somehow does not end up in a "Power" Conference then they would prefer football independence and move their BB back to the A10 before joining the AAC.

But the only place you will ever find a sentence containing the words "WVU" and "AAC" is a forum like this one...with people like DavidSt arguing that various D-2 programs are on the verge of joining FBS and "Kittonhead" arguing that the MAC is going to be "Power 8" material.

(06-20-2017 07:59 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  For the people thinking some of us should go go back and reread old articles, I'd say they need to go back and reread the question.

This is about what the Big XII would do if 4 schools LEFT the conference and needed to rebuild, NOT what schools they looked at for expansion. Expansion would tend to center around markets, rebuilding around reputation.

If you're going to rebuild with a snowball's chance in hell of competing with the other conferences for bowl games and more specifically NY6 bowl games, you need schools with some sort of tradition or a who are a known quantity. Big time bowl games and their sponsors aren't going to go all in on some new kid on the block who MIGHT have "growing" fan base.

That's why adding a Boise or a BYU makes more sense than a couple of the Johnny Come Latelys

You mean that growing fan base that has proven it can draw close to 70,000 fans for home games? The smart money is to bet on the future, not the past. I do agree that BYU should be #1 on the list but you cannot deny the upside of the Florida twins in the hotbed of CFB vs a team in the hotbed of potatoes.

(06-20-2017 08:23 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 09:27 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  I believe it takes 8 votes for the Big 12 to disband.

We could see the 8 schools not named Baylor and West Virginia merge with the Pac 12 and solve each other's network problem.

In that case, Baylor and West Virginia join the American.

Trust me when I say, "WVU will NEVER join the AAC." Seriously.

#1) WVU will land on its feet in a "Power" conference...they have too much to offer not to.
#2) IF WVU somehow does not end up in a "Power" Conference then they would prefer football independence and move their BB back to the A10 before joining the AAC.

But the only place you will ever find a sentence containing the words "WVU" and "AAC" is a forum like this one...with people like DavidSt arguing that various D-2 programs are on the verge of joining FBS and "Kittonhead" arguing that the MAC is going to be "Power 8" material.

Taking the TV deals, AAC would be P6, MWC P7, and the MAC P8 as the final conference with a credible long term TV deal. That could change if CUSA ever lived up to its media market potential.

WVU is lucky that Rich Rod had a big streak of success in the years immediately prior to realignment happening. They could easily have been left out of the B12 and were accepted to join after TCU. I don't consider being one of the very last ones to find a seat in a power conference saying a lot to offer.

(06-20-2017 08:29 PM)Sellular1 Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 07:59 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  For the people thinking some of us should go go back and reread old articles, I'd say they need to go back and reread the question.

This is about what the Big XII would do if 4 schools LEFT the conference and needed to rebuild, NOT what schools they looked at for expansion. Expansion would tend to center around markets, rebuilding around reputation.

If you're going to rebuild with a snowball's chance in hell of competing with the other conferences for bowl games and more specifically NY6 bowl games, you need schools with some sort of tradition or a who are a known quantity. Big time bowl games and their sponsors aren't going to go all in on some new kid on the block who MIGHT have "growing" fan base.

That's why adding a Boise or a BYU makes more sense than a couple of the Johnny Come Latelys

You mean that growing fan base that has proven it can draw close to 70,000 fans for home games? The smart money is to bet on the future, not the past. I do agree that BYU should be #1 on the list but you cannot deny the upside of the Florida twins in the hotbed of CFB vs a team in the hotbed of potatoes.

B12 aside from Texas in Austin and TCU in Ft. Worth consists of schools in very rural towns.

That profile does not really favor UCF/USF. Houston gets a pass because it's in the B12's backyard but UCF/USF are not.

(06-19-2017 09:13 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let's speculate that Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Kansas leave the Big 12. (Maybe those aren't the exact 4 but you get the general idea.) Who do you rebuild with?

My picks are Houston, BYU, Cincy, USF, UCF

Without those 4, the B12 is an AAC Midwest.

Kansas won't find a home in a another conference. They suck at football and that is going to kill them. They would have to tag along with either Texas or Oklahoma and those two have little brother problems. I honestly believe this situation is going to be resolved with the Texahoma 4 going to the Pac-12 somehow, someway. It will be a mutally beneficial agreement: Pac-12 gets into central time zone, Oklahoma gets a conference network, and Texas would somehow get to keep the Longhorn Network (or some sort of uneven distribution scheme benefiting them).

So that leaves Kansas, Kansas St., WVU, Iowa State, TCU, and Baylor.
Who would they add and how many?
My guess is that they would add 6 schools to get to a stable 12-team conference.
UConn (first four schools on list would be easy yes votes)
Cincy (good chance all the schools would give yes votes)
UCF (for recruiting)
USF (for recruiting)
Houston (for recruiting)
BYU/ SMU if BYU looks down on conference

The conference will primarily expand east and grab the biggest brands available. Memphis, Boise State, and Temple didn't make the cut last time and I don't think that will change. Air Force likely isn't serious about joining, and Rice, Tulane, and Colorado St. really never had a chance.

(06-20-2017 10:44 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Kansas won't find a home in a another conference. They suck at football and that is going to kill them. They would have to tag along with either Texas or Oklahoma and those two have little brother problems. I honestly believe this situation is going to be resolved with the Texahoma 4 going to the Pac-12 somehow, someway. It will be a mutally beneficial agreement: Pac-12 gets into central time zone, Oklahoma gets a conference network, and Texas would somehow get to keep the Longhorn Network (or some sort of uneven distribution scheme benefiting them).

So that leaves Kansas, Kansas St., WVU, Iowa State, TCU, and Baylor.
Who would they add and how many?
My guess is that they would add 6 schools to get to a stable 12-team conference.
UConn (first four schools on list would be easy yes votes)
Cincy (good chance all the schools would give yes votes)
UCF (for recruiting)
USF (for recruiting)
Houston (for recruiting)
BYU/ SMU if BYU looks down on conference

The conference will primarily expand east and grab the biggest brands available. Memphis, Boise State, and Temple didn't make the cut last time and I don't think that will change. Air Force likely isn't serious about joining, and Rice, Tulane, and Colorado St. really never had a chance.

So USF for "recruiting"? Not the fact they regularly beat the crap out of UConn, Cincy, and UCF?

(06-20-2017 10:53 PM)Sellular1 Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 10:44 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Kansas won't find a home in a another conference. They suck at football and that is going to kill them. They would have to tag along with either Texas or Oklahoma and those two have little brother problems. I honestly believe this situation is going to be resolved with the Texahoma 4 going to the Pac-12 somehow, someway. It will be a mutally beneficial agreement: Pac-12 gets into central time zone, Oklahoma gets a conference network, and Texas would somehow get to keep the Longhorn Network (or some sort of uneven distribution scheme benefiting them).

So that leaves Kansas, Kansas St., WVU, Iowa State, TCU, and Baylor.
Who would they add and how many?
My guess is that they would add 6 schools to get to a stable 12-team conference.
UConn (first four schools on list would be easy yes votes)
Cincy (good chance all the schools would give yes votes)
UCF (for recruiting)
USF (for recruiting)
Houston (for recruiting)
BYU/ SMU if BYU looks down on conference

The conference will primarily expand east and grab the biggest brands available. Memphis, Boise State, and Temple didn't make the cut last time and I don't think that will change. Air Force likely isn't serious about joining, and Rice, Tulane, and Colorado St. really never had a chance.

So USF for "recruiting"? Not the fact they regularly beat the crap out of UConn, Cincy, and UCF?

You're a state directional which is a major con for you. This new Big 12 wouldn't overlook that but probably give you a pass because...Florida. Beating UConn, Cincy, and UCF won't mean much to them. Heck, UConn regularly beat Syracuse in football and look who's in the ACC.

(06-20-2017 10:53 PM)Sellular1 Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 10:44 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Kansas won't find a home in a another conference. They suck at football and that is going to kill them. They would have to tag along with either Texas or Oklahoma and those two have little brother problems. I honestly believe this situation is going to be resolved with the Texahoma 4 going to the Pac-12 somehow, someway. It will be a mutally beneficial agreement: Pac-12 gets into central time zone, Oklahoma gets a conference network, and Texas would somehow get to keep the Longhorn Network (or some sort of uneven distribution scheme benefiting them).

So that leaves Kansas, Kansas St., WVU, Iowa State, TCU, and Baylor.
Who would they add and how many?
My guess is that they would add 6 schools to get to a stable 12-team conference.
UConn (first four schools on list would be easy yes votes)
Cincy (good chance all the schools would give yes votes)
UCF (for recruiting)
USF (for recruiting)
Houston (for recruiting)
BYU/ SMU if BYU looks down on conference

The conference will primarily expand east and grab the biggest brands available. Memphis, Boise State, and Temple didn't make the cut last time and I don't think that will change. Air Force likely isn't serious about joining, and Rice, Tulane, and Colorado St. really never had a chance.

So USF for "recruiting"? Not the fact they regularly beat the crap out of UConn, Cincy, and UCF?

We've both won twice since being in the same league and it's been played a total of 8 times since 2005. That's hardly considered regular.

(06-20-2017 08:17 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 07:59 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  For the people thinking some of us should go go back and reread old articles, I'd say they need to go back and reread the question.

This is about what the Big XII would do if 4 schools LEFT the conference and needed to rebuild, NOT what schools they looked at for expansion. Expansion would tend to center around markets, rebuilding around reputation.

If you're going to rebuild with a snowball's chance in hell of competing with the other conferences for bowl games and more specifically NY6 bowl games, you need schools with some sort of tradition or a who are a known quantity. Big time bowl games and their sponsors aren't going to go all in on some new kid on the block who MIGHT have "growing" fan base.

That's why adding a Boise or a BYU makes more sense than a couple of the Johnny Come Latelys

I'm not seeing Boise in a good position for the B12 as they are further west than BYU who some think is too far west.

Stadium Size:

Brigham Young 63,470 (record 66,247)
Air Force 46,692 (record 56,409)
Boise State 36,387 (record 36,864)

Historically speaking, Air Force was the #2 program after BYU in the WAC and had the #2 attendance. They've been able to put in the stadium 20,000 more fans than what Boise State can fit.

If the goal is to maintain the major conference image Air Force does that better than Boise State IMO.

Some sites say the stadium size is 37,000 for Boise State, plus they do have rough drafts plans to expand to 53,000 capacity. But, Air Force was hot in the 1980s while Boise State have been hot since 1999.