(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

Does a $400k profit make that big a difference in a $4-5M football budget, $2xM overall athletic budget?

I like the P5 games because it's a chance to take a swing at a major program, gain some publicity with the national football media, etc.

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.

Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

(06-22-2017 05:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

Does a $400k profit make that big a difference in a $4-5M football budget, $2xM overall athletic budget?

I like the P5 games because it's a chance to take a swing at a major program, gain some publicity with the national football media, etc.

So play a P5 money game and cover up to 10% of the budget...yeah not a benefit at all.

(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.

Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.

Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

By going FBS, the Dakotas and Montana show their no longer backwater regions that aren't with the times, like the Sacramento region, which cow tows miserably to the Bay Area. The Dakotas are growing for the first time in a century, their incomes have expanded more than other states this century, and they want more entertainment and other amenities that most of the US has.

Many of the majority Minnesotans at the NoDak schools stay in the state because it still has so many good paying jobs. Going FBS will only improve the schools stature.

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.

Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

Don't laugh, but people across the nation do watch a winning team. North Dakota State Vs Montana had over 1 million viewers on ESPN. North Dakota State, South Dakota State, James Madison, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, Sam Houston State, Central Arkansas, McNeese State and some others who wins do get people to tuned in to watched.

(06-23-2017 12:26 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  So play a P5 money game and cover up to 10% of the budget...yeah not a benefit at all.

You mean 2.5% of the budget. Like I said, is it really worth it, for the money alone? I don't think so ... and I think Montana agreed, which is why it didn't schedule a lot of P payday games in the past.

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

Again, just setting the record straight: I have nothing to do with the idea of pulling the Montana schools out of the Big Sky for a new conference. I don't agree with that, and don't think it will happen. That's all NoDak


That said .... are you seriously saying that NDSU has no talented football players to recruit??? Just name the date, and I'm sure NDSU's Dakotas, Minnesota, and Wisconsin players will be happy to wipe the field with your California players, and show you all how football is actually played.

(06-23-2017 03:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.

Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

Don't laugh, but people across the nation do watch a winning team. North Dakota State Vs Montana had over 1 million viewers on ESPN. North Dakota State, South Dakota State, James Madison, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, Sam Houston State, Central Arkansas, McNeese State and some others who wins do get people to tuned in to watched.

Your right but at the FCS level only Montana and especially NDSU interest casual fans. The rest have no following or casual national interest. Most of the G5 and half the P5 are the same.

The real valuable programs like USC or Michigan are newsworthy in a downturn. Nebraska can be average they still have way above average fans.
A hot new team like UCF or BSU can't overcome a string of bad seasons.



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(06-23-2017 01:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.

Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

By going FBS, the Dakotas and Montana show their no longer backwater regions that aren't with the times, like the Sacramento region, which cow tows miserably to the Bay Area. The Dakotas are growing for the first time in a century, their incomes have expanded more than other states this century, and they want more entertainment and other amenities that most of the US has.

Many of the majority Minnesotans at the NoDak schools stay in the state because it still has so many good paying jobs. Going FBS will only improve the schools stature.

Sorry, but this is hilarious, the Dakota schools just got out of D2 a few years ago. They are doing well in FCS, but over time in FBS, they would get destroyed.



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(06-23-2017 02:58 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 03:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

Don't laugh, but people across the nation do watch a winning team. North Dakota State Vs Montana had over 1 million viewers on ESPN. North Dakota State, South Dakota State, James Madison, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, Sam Houston State, Central Arkansas, McNeese State and some others who wins do get people to tuned in to watched.

Your right but at the FCS level only Montana and especially NDSU interest casual fans. The rest have no following or casual national interest. Most of the G5 and half the P5 are the same.

The real valuable programs like USC or Michigan are newsworthy in a downturn. Nebraska can be average they still have way above average fans.
A hot new team like UCF or BSU can't overcome a string of bad seasons.



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Boise State seems to garner fans across the Nation. I think FBS fans started watching North Dakota State games because ESPN held Game Day there several times. ESPN might be happy to have NDSU move up now as a Independent to offer them a TV contract as filler games cheaper than showing some P5 games since the lost of the Big 10 and Big 12 games to FOX. They seem to do special contracts with Boise State and BYU for that purpose.

(06-23-2017 05:22 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 01:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.

The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

By going FBS, the Dakotas and Montana show their no longer backwater regions that aren't with the times, like the Sacramento region, which cow tows miserably to the Bay Area. The Dakotas are growing for the first time in a century, their incomes have expanded more than other states this century, and they want more entertainment and other amenities that most of the US has.

Many of the majority Minnesotans at the NoDak schools stay in the state because it still has so many good paying jobs. Going FBS will only improve the schools stature.

Sorry, but this is hilarious, the Dakota schools just got out of D2 a few years ago. They are doing well in FCS, but over time in FBS, they would get destroyed.

The NoDaks had entertained DI for 40 years as DII teams. The Big Sky blocked us, other than the Montanas and UNI left us for greener pastures of DI, and none of the other Midcontinent teams wanted us either. It wasn't by choice that we were consigned to DII.

(06-23-2017 08:01 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 12:26 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  So play a P5 money game and cover up to 10% of the budget...yeah not a benefit at all.

You mean 2.5% of the budget. Like I said, is it really worth it, for the money alone? I don't think so ... and I think Montana agreed, which is why it didn't schedule a lot of P payday games in the past.

(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

Again, just setting the record straight: I have nothing to do with the idea of pulling the Montana schools out of the Big Sky for a new conference. I don't agree with that, and don't think it will happen. That's all NoDak


That said .... are you seriously saying that NDSU has no talented football players to recruit??? Just name the date, and I'm sure NDSU's Dakotas, Minnesota, and Wisconsin players will be happy to wipe the field with your California players, and show you all how football is actually played.

Montana didn't need to schedule P5 games becuase they can sell out (or at least use to) their stadium and pay lower FCS/D2/NAIA teams to come to them and they were not in the red in doing so. They have hit a bit of a rough patch but will be fine.

As far as NDSU and ND recruits go, I just thumbed through the roster on the NDSU website and a good amount (I'm guessing close to 50%) come from out of state. Not really sure what your point was with that last comment.

Means you were dead wrong with your silly "limited recruits" claim

NDSU had 90 players on their Spring Roster.

81 Midwest, 7 Florida, 3 other (their 2 transfers are on this other list, one from SMU from CA, one from NDSCS from MD)

Midwest breakdown:
22 North Dakota
27 Minnesota
14 Wisconsin
4 each from South Dakota, Nebraska, Missouri
2 each from Iowa, Kansas, Illinois

NDSU like UND primarily draws from North Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. But also reaches into the neighboring Plains (South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska). Kansas and Missouri players turn out to all be from KC area. So you are really looking at the I-29 corridor as the recruiting zone after Minnesota and Wisconsin. There is also some success in Florida.

Both of the North Dakota are ineffective in recruiting the West, even Colorado. They do not come close to resembling the student bodies or athletes recruited by NoCo or the Montana schools, who have heavy California and Pacific Northwest reach. This is not surprising given the distance between the Dakota schools and the eastern most Big Sky schools is over 600 miles, some 10+ hours of driving distance.

The data clearly demonstrates that the Dakotas are firmly Midwest, and so sparse in population they are heavily dependent on neighboring Midwest States. The Montana schools, like all the Big Sky are Western, and tied heavily to California and the Pacific Northwest. There is no synergy, no common interest. Sure a few an boys want to be big time (same for all schools) but it's clear from the failed marriage o North Dakota in the Big Sky, the upper Midwest doesn't work well with the west.

(06-23-2017 11:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  NDSU had 90 players on their Spring Roster.

81 Midwest, 7 Florida, 3 other (their 2 transfers are on this other list, one from SMU from CA, one from NDSCS from MD)

Midwest breakdown:
22 North Dakota
27 Minnesota
14 Wisconsin
4 each from South Dakota, Nebraska, Missouri
2 each from Iowa, Kansas, Illinois

NDSU like UND primarily draws from North Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. But also reaches into the neighboring Plains (South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska). Kansas and Missouri players turn out to all be from KC area. So you are really looking at the I-29 corridor as the recruiting zone after Minnesota and Wisconsin. There is also some success in Florida.

Both of the North Dakota are ineffective in recruiting the West, even Colorado. They do not come close to resembling the student bodies or athletes recruited by NoCo or the Montana schools, who have heavy California and Pacific Northwest reach. This is not surprising given the distance between the Dakota schools and the eastern most Big Sky schools is over 600 miles, some 10+ hours of driving distance.

The data clearly demonstrates that the Dakotas are firmly Midwest, and so sparse in population they are heavily dependent on neighboring Midwest States. The Montana schools, like all the Big Sky are Western, and tied heavily to California and the Pacific Northwest. There is no synergy, no common interest. Sure a few an boys want to be big time (same for all schools) but it's clear from the failed marriage o North Dakota in the Big Sky, the upper Midwest doesn't work well with the west.

NDSU could produce first round draft picks for the NFL. Add them to the MAC, and they might steal the Access Bowl right away from the other G5 schools in the first year.

(06-23-2017 11:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The data clearly demonstrates that the Dakotas are firmly Midwest, and so sparse in population they are heavily dependent on neighboring Midwest States. The Montana schools, like all the Big Sky are Western, and tied heavily to California and the Pacific Northwest. There is no synergy, no common interest. Sure a few an boys want to be big time (same for all schools) but it's clear from the failed marriage o North Dakota in the Big Sky, the upper Midwest doesn't work well with the west.

Absolutely correct, and agreed 100%.

One huge factor, in the sense of geography: all of the Dakota flagship universities (with the minor exception of U of S Dakota) are on the extreme eastern side of the state. If they had been on the western side of the state ... things might have been completely different. On the far west side of North Dakota, it is the Mountain timezone in fact ...

(06-23-2017 11:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  NDSU had 90 players on their Spring Roster.

81 Midwest, 7 Florida, 3 other (their 2 transfers are on this other list, one from SMU from CA, one from NDSCS from MD)

Midwest breakdown:
22 North Dakota
27 Minnesota
14 Wisconsin
4 each from South Dakota, Nebraska, Missouri
2 each from Iowa, Kansas, Illinois

NDSU like UND primarily draws from North Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. But also reaches into the neighboring Plains (South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska). Kansas and Missouri players turn out to all be from KC area. So you are really looking at the I-29 corridor as the recruiting zone after Minnesota and Wisconsin. There is also some success in Florida.

Both of the North Dakota are ineffective in recruiting the West, even Colorado. They do not come close to resembling the student bodies or athletes recruited by NoCo or the Montana schools, who have heavy California and Pacific Northwest reach. This is not surprising given the distance between the Dakota schools and the eastern most Big Sky schools is over 600 miles, some 10+ hours of driving distance.

The data clearly demonstrates that the Dakotas are firmly Midwest, and so sparse in population they are heavily dependent on neighboring Midwest States. The Montana schools, like all the Big Sky are Western, and tied heavily to California and the Pacific Northwest. There is no synergy, no common interest. Sure a few an boys want to be big time (same for all schools) but it's clear from the failed marriage o North Dakota in the Big Sky, the upper Midwest doesn't work well with the west.

They Can't recruit in Minnesota and Wisconsin if they play in the West?
They don't play where they recruit now.

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(06-24-2017 09:57 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 11:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The data clearly demonstrates that the Dakotas are firmly Midwest, and so sparse in population they are heavily dependent on neighboring Midwest States. The Montana schools, like all the Big Sky are Western, and tied heavily to California and the Pacific Northwest. There is no synergy, no common interest. Sure a few an boys want to be big time (same for all schools) but it's clear from the failed marriage o North Dakota in the Big Sky, the upper Midwest doesn't work well with the west.

Absolutely correct, and agreed 100%.

One huge factor, in the sense of geography: all of the Dakota flagship universities (with the minor exception of U of S Dakota) are on the extreme eastern side of the state. If they had been on the western side of the state ... things might have been completely different. On the far west side of North Dakota, it is the Mountain timezone in fact ...

How is that really that much of a disadvantage?
You take the top of two conferences and get rid of the bottom teams.
Do the Dakota schools benefit from playing in Ohio, Illinois and Indiana not for recruiting.
They would lose UNI but could play them out of conference that's it.
One Division recruiting Minnesota and Wisconsin.
One Division recruiting California and the Northwest.

vs the Mac Eight teams recruiting two states.

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(06-23-2017 10:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Means you were dead wrong with your silly "limited recruits" claim

How so? Roughly half of NDSU's roster comes from out of state. The idea of having the Montana's joining the Dakota cabal and competing for the limited recruits in the area would be a poor move for them...and as Stu pointed out would not align with their current recruiting strategy/pipelines.

(06-24-2017 02:07 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  How so? Roughly half of NDSU's roster comes from out of state.

And??? The Dakotas, and ever increasingly N Iowa, have proven to be more than capable of each taking between 10-20 high FCS level football athletes from high schools in Minnesota and Wisconsin, every year.

And those teams make the playoffs every year, using those players. That is not any thing even close to "limited recruits", in any way, shape, or form. It was a silly comment, and you were dead wrong.

(06-24-2017 02:07 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  The idea of having the Montana's joining the Dakota cabal and competing for the limited recruits in the area would be a poor move for them...and as Stu pointed out would not align with their current recruiting strategy/pipelines.

Now that you're moving the goalposts -- I never said anything about Montana schools recruiting Minn and Wisc. Even if they were in a league with Dakota schools ... they wouldn't do that. They recruit the West, which is just fine.