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Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 04:34 PM)NoDak Wrote:  In Idaho's contractual agreement to return to the Big Sky, Idaho had an out if the Montanas and N Dakota were already gone. Why would Idaho have such a clause unless those three schools were talking about leaving years ago?

It had nothing to do with a plan ... it was just to address the risk that the Big Sky was no longer the attractive conference that Idaho thought it was going to be for any reason. An emergency clause.

Furthermore, if Idaho president doesn't care about being successful in FBS, I don't think he'll care about being successful in the Big Sky.
06-21-2017 04:44 PM
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MJG Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Say the ten non-California Big Sky schools average 25 Cali kids.
Where are those 250 kids going to play football California isn't Texas with around twenty FBS/FCS combined programs?

To me, the four Dakota schools mainly getting Minnesota and Wisconsin kids is a plus.
A conference is only going to have maybe four or five strong programs at a time.
The block of four of Idaho-EWU and Montana's getting half their kids from California is a plus.
Say those eight are it for football and maybe a couple non- football schools round out the conference.
Then you have a pretty strong conference for fan support and academics with name schools.
The FCS California schools would recruit against this better conference.
NDSU, Montana, SDSU, and EWU are teams that interest fans if your FCS.
06-21-2017 04:53 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 04:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 04:34 PM)NoDak Wrote:  In Idaho's contractual agreement to return to the Big Sky, Idaho had an out if the Montanas and N Dakota were already gone. Why would Idaho have such a clause unless those three schools were talking about leaving years ago?

It had nothing to do with a plan ... it was just to address the risk that the Big Sky was no longer the attractive conference that Idaho thought it was going to be for any reason. An emergency clause.

Furthermore, if Idaho president doesn't care about being successful in FBS, I don't think he'll care about being successful in the Big Sky.

Well according to most posters here, the Montanas are cemented in the Big Sky. There is no emergency unless Yellowstone erupts.

Staben has to keep costs down. The only thing that can bring Idaho FBS is a MAC West with the Montanas and Dakotas. Presidents actually have strategic plans that they don't reveal.
06-21-2017 04:54 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
If it happens, then I'll believe you.

Not until then.
06-21-2017 05:01 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Northern Colorado is the only Big Sky school (UND I don't consider) with significant numbers of non-Westerners. Even so they are heavily Western. Their Spring football roster had

33 from Colorado, 13 California, 4 others from the west (Utah, Wyoming -really home base-, Washington, Vancouver)

They had 8 from Texas, 7 from Illinois (6 Chicago area), 7 from the South (3 Florida). Only 3 from the plains (Iowa, Kansas, and Kansas City-MO which is Kansas zone), and 3 others (NH, MI, WI).

Excepting some Chicago and Texas influence, even NoCo is very western leaning composition of team and student body. It's clearly more Western than Midwestern, although it has more contact with Texas and Chicago than the rest of the West. It really is the gateway to the West now.
06-21-2017 05:12 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 04:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 04:25 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Montana has to fly for games. So that is a sunk cost.

Not the same cost going to Calif as Southern Utah.

(06-21-2017 04:25 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  The recruiting that goes on during the games is an added benefit for recruiting.

Cheaper to send one asst coach out there than the whole football team + staff.

(06-21-2017 04:25 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And yes, players do choose schools that will play near their home in the future, even if it is just twice in their career.

Your wishful thinking. No proof


As usual, you don't understand reality. No use is explaining reality to you. You, NoDak and David St.
06-21-2017 05:16 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Idaho hasn't been in a conference with any California schools since 2012, has played a grand total of 2 games in that state from 2012-2016, and don't play there this year either. We still have 15 Californians on our roster and recruit there heavily. I don't think being in a conference with Sacramento St. is the golden goose you guys think it is.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2017 05:39 PM by LatahCounty.)
06-21-2017 05:38 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 05:12 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Northern Colorado is the only Big Sky school (UND I don't consider) with significant numbers of non-Westerners. Even so they are heavily Western. Their Spring football roster had

33 from Colorado, 13 California, 4 others from the west (Utah, Wyoming -really home base-, Washington, Vancouver)

They had 8 from Texas, 7 from Illinois (6 Chicago area), 7 from the South (3 Florida). Only 3 from the plains (Iowa, Kansas, and Kansas City-MO which is Kansas zone), and 3 others (NH, MI, WI).

Excepting some Chicago and Texas influence, even NoCo is very western leaning composition of team and student body. It's clearly more Western than Midwestern, although it has more contact with Texas and Chicago than the rest of the West. It really is the gateway to the West now.

Regardless, it was in the North Central conf for many years with Dakotas, including national championships (DII) in 90's.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2017 05:44 PM by MplsBison.)
06-21-2017 05:43 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 05:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  As usual, you don't understand reality. No use is explaining reality to you. You, NoDak and David St.

Personal insults when you run out of counter arguments. Too bad
06-21-2017 05:50 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 05:38 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Idaho hasn't been in a conference with any California schools since 2012, has played a grand total of 2 games in that state from 2012-2016, and don't play there this year either. We still have 15 Californians on our roster and recruit there heavily. I don't think being in a conference with Sacramento St. is the golden goose you guys think it is.

It isn't. They have no proof, only a hypothesis.

Thats good enough on an internet message board to declare yourself an expert.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2017 05:54 PM by MplsBison.)
06-21-2017 05:51 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 05:38 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Idaho hasn't been in a conference with any California schools since 2012, has played a grand total of 2 games in that state from 2012-2016, and don't play there this year either. We still have 15 Californians on our roster and recruit there heavily. I don't think being in a conference with Sacramento St. is the golden goose you guys think it is.


15 from kids looking for FBS rides in Idaho. Times change. Sure it is not magic but I believe it can help pick up a kid or two you would not have a shot at had that kid never seen you play or parents who know the kid will place close to home now and then sometimes little things matter in recruiting.
06-21-2017 05:53 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Since we are looking at academics. I am gonna list unlikely schools from joining the Big Sky not counting the non-football schools and PAC 12.
Colorado State R2
New Mexico State R2
Hawaii R1
New Mexico R1
UTEP R2
Texas State R2
UTSA R2
UNLV R2
UNR R2
Utah State R2
Air Force R3
Boise State R3
Fresno State R3
U. Of San Diego R3
San Jose State M1

Big Sky looks like this.
Cal.-Davis R1 football only
Montana State R2
Northern Arizona R2
Portland State R2
Idaho R2
Montana R2
Northern Colorado R2
Idaho State R3
Cal. Poly R3 football only
Sacramento State M1
Eastern Washington M1
Southern Utah M1
Weber State M1

Removed North Dakota.

Possible academics equals to the Montanas and Big Sky.
Colorado Mines R2
North Dakota State R2
South Dakota State R2
North Dakota R2
South Dakota R2
Azusa Pacific R3
Adams State M1
Central Washington M1 same as Eastern Washington.
Fort Hays State M1
Mankato State M1
New Mexico Highlands M1
St. Cloud State M1
SW Oklahoma State M1
Central Oklahoma M1
Mary M1
Minn.-Duluth M1
Nebraska-Kearney M1
West Texas A&M M1
Chadron State M2
Colorado State-Pueblo M2
Eastern New Mexico M2
Humboldt State M2
Midwestern State M2
Minn. State-Moorhead M2
Minot State M2
Nebraska Wesleyan M2

MWC looks like a better fit for the Montana Twins than the Big Sky comparing in academics. R2, R3, M1 and M2s all could move up in the next Carnegie's categories. You can have a wild guest who they would take.
06-21-2017 06:40 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #33
Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 03:06 PM)billings Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 02:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 01:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Sentiment in the league strongly prefers 10, not 12.

Source? Or did you mean "Sentiment of message board fans of league schools ..." ?

(06-21-2017 01:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  ZERO desire from Montana schools to break from their California and Pacific Northwest base, where students and recruits come from.

There is no law requiring there to be a school in your league where you recruit students and athletes from. Minnesota recruits Georgia for football players, just fine.

Please Big Sky ADs complain about unfair league schedules and want to return to a round robin format where everyone plays everyone and what rivalries they have are continued.


P6 schools can fly all over the country to recruit they have the budget for it. apples and oranges comparison there. Show me an FCS school where the majority of the players are from out of region? P6 are on TV nationally for families to watch the game fcs well not so much. Reasons go on and on


Nice of you to include MWC as a power school.


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06-21-2017 07:46 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 07:46 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 03:06 PM)billings Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 02:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 01:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Sentiment in the league strongly prefers 10, not 12.

Source? Or did you mean "Sentiment of message board fans of league schools ..." ?

(06-21-2017 01:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  ZERO desire from Montana schools to break from their California and Pacific Northwest base, where students and recruits come from.

There is no law requiring there to be a school in your league where you recruit students and athletes from. Minnesota recruits Georgia for football players, just fine.

Please Big Sky ADs complain about unfair league schedules and want to return to a round robin format where everyone plays everyone and what rivalries they have are continued.


P6 schools can fly all over the country to recruit they have the budget for it. apples and oranges comparison there. Show me an FCS school where the majority of the players are from out of region? P6 are on TV nationally for families to watch the game fcs well not so much. Reasons go on and on


Nice of you to include MWC as a power school.


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uhh he compared Minnesota (P5) recruiting in Georgia? to FCS school recruiting. yea P5 not P6 though 03-wink
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 09:34 AM by billings.)
06-22-2017 09:33 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
And already defeated that challenge in previous post.
06-22-2017 09:38 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-21-2017 05:53 PM)billings Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 05:38 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Idaho hasn't been in a conference with any California schools since 2012, has played a grand total of 2 games in that state from 2012-2016, and don't play there this year either. We still have 15 Californians on our roster and recruit there heavily. I don't think being in a conference with Sacramento St. is the golden goose you guys think it is.


15 from kids looking for FBS rides in Idaho. Times change. Sure it is not magic but I believe it can help pick up a kid or two you would not have a shot at had that kid never seen you play or parents who know the kid will place close to home now and then sometimes little things matter in recruiting.

Oh, I agree with you as far as it goes. I'd just be surprised if this was really much of a huge factor in conference alignment decisionmaking. I've always assumed the thought process with the Montana school higher ups was more along the lines of "we're the only place in America where people come to FCS games in droves. Why run the risk of screwing up a good thing?"
06-22-2017 03:24 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
True.

The risk-takers in Montana's fan base say "look at Boise! we could've done that!", and the risk-adverse in Montana's fan base say "look at Idaho ... we could've done THAT ..."
06-22-2017 03:29 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Toungue RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Montana plays at Washington in 2017 and 2021 and Oregon in 2019. A game at Fresno St, Cal, or S Diego St would be much more impressive for recruits than Sac St. There is always is a better way.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 04:27 PM by NoDak.)
06-22-2017 04:05 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.
06-22-2017 05:04 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-22-2017 05:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I think Montana has bigger fish to fry than Portland St and Sac St, frankly.

For years Montana resisted playing payday games with P5 teams. Now both Montana and NDSU have a fair share of P5 games lined up over the next 5-10 years.

Budgets cuts from the state will do that for you.
06-22-2017 05:13 PM
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