(12-12-2017 05:07 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I'm not sure how you can say I'm being a contrarian when I'm saying they should sell alcohol at games. I'm simply disagreeing with it doing all that much to either make money or grow the fanbase. It's a nice thing to have. There are deeper structural problems. The product is most important, and that's what is lacking now as compared to when most of us were at W&M.

Surprise! I totally disagree with you!

In 1976, the team was 1-A, played before a full student section, had a tailgate lot behind the west stands that was glorious, had a marching band, you got a cup with your RC that was sold by vendors in the stands, re-entry galore, the frats had kegs in the stands, the halftime at Homecoming was something else, and students never had to wait in a long line to enter the stadium. Oh, and the team was 7-4.

In 2017, the team is 1-AA, plays before an empty student section, the tailgate lot is gone, the marching band is gone, the vendors and cups are gone, the frats are "gone", the kegs are gone, re-entry is gone, halftime at Homecoming was a shell of its former self, and students had to wait in line at Homecoming, and many didn't get in until the second quarter. Oh, and the team was 2-9.

Think the atmosphere had anything to do with W's and L's in 1976? In 2017?

If you want to prioritize the team, and not the atmosphere, be my guest. The deep structural problems lie in the atmosphere, and are exhibited by all of the things that were there in 1976, and were not there in 2017. The nice shiny new stands, unfortunately, are masking the atmosphere issues.

Yes, cups, t-shirts, and alcohol are small things, but in the scheme of things, sometimes it's the small things that are most important.

"Think the atmosphere had anything to do with W's and L's in 1976? In 2017?"

Do I think a few more fans in the stands might have gotten McKee to complete a pass to his receiver instead of bouncing or overthrowing it? Not really. This team was bad on offense. Bad and boring is a poor combination to convince a reluctant fanbase to come out. We didn't have a marching band or kegs in the stands in the late 90s when I was there but still managed 3 winning seasons and made the playoffs. We didn't have a marching band or kegs in the stands in 2009 or 2010 and still made the playoffs in consecutive years. We could have a marching band and hand out free shots and it wouldn't help if the team is unwatchable.

I think handing out free shots is the best idea I've heard yet.

(12-12-2017 07:07 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I think handing out free shots is the best idea I've heard yet.

It would have made the offense this year look a lot better.

Echoing a few of those above. This is not about fixing all of the problems of attendance. Given the myriad of problems, I think we should take a broken windows approach to growing the fanbase... a simple value add of a biergarten does wonders for the average local or alum who just doesnt know much about the team. It is likely to give some small financial gain to the school, but that isnt the goal. The trend is to sell alcohol at college football...It wasnt the case 10 years ago, but it is now. Fans are expecting it. DUI rates are irrelevant...just as they are from any pro-team tailgate or any bar for that matter.

Ahhhh, kegs in the student section. I miss those days, and Wed. nights at the Dirty Delly.

Think there needs to be a convergence of winning football and improved stadium atmosphere. Hard not to be concerned when you have a beautifully restored facility and attendance drops to 5,426 and 6,234 for the last two home games.

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(12-12-2017 12:03 PM)nj alum Wrote:  We have got to get 21 year old students and young alumni to the football games, or there will be no fan base in the future.

I totally agree with you that we need to build the young fan base. However, drawing them in with beer does not grow football fans, it grows beer fans. Besides, no self respecting student is going to go to Zable to pay $6 for a beer that he can get cheaper elsewhere. Moreover, how many of those students are even old enough to drink (legally)? So, featuring beer in the stadium is not going to get the young fan base into the stadium.

(12-12-2017 06:27 PM)nj alum Wrote:  Think the atmosphere had anything to do with W's and L's in 1976? In 2017?

I think you have that backwards. Do you think winning had anything to do with the atmosphere in 1976? In 2017? The all-time most tried-and-true best method to fill a football stadium is to feature a winning team for the fans to cheer for.

Tribe was 2-9 in 1975, and 2-9 in 1980. Best year in that stretch was 1976 at 7-4.

The only thing that changed during those years was the kegs. It was a great atmosphere before a full student section during the entire period, especially Homecoming, when folks sat in the aisles, and the area in front of the stands was jammed. The Homecoming parade down DOG Street was the best, and the atmosphere carried into Cary Field.

Rocco, since your point of reference as a student was the 90's, respectfully, you have no clue as to what it was like as a student attending a football game in the 70's. It was much better than it is now, and that is a major problem for the program moving forward.

Interestingly, there were several seasons during this period in which the Tribe only played four home games. Maybe that is the answer. Maybe it's a simple as supply and demand.

Finally, and this is a small thing, but the team's locker room was under the student section. The team came out, and returned, supported by the sea of students. Today, the team comes out in the alumni section, and runs to the end zone by the alumni, never getting near the student section. I've always thought that moving the students over to the alumni side was the way to go with the building of the Laycock Center / west stands, in connection with a beer garden on that side, but what do I know.

(12-13-2017 06:07 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Interestingly, there were several seasons during this period in which the Tribe only played four home games. Maybe that is the answer. Maybe it's a simple as supply and demand.

AAARRRGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Did you stop to consider that one of the reasons the Tribe had poor records during those years (and Jim Root got fired, leading to the Laycock era) was because they played only 4 home games some of those years? I'm sure that Root had wished that they had played more.

Moreover, I have been advocating for years that the Tribe needs to play 6 home games every year in order to win consistently enough to make the FCS playoffs consistently (and consecutively). Your idea would be a HUGE step backwards.

TIC

(12-13-2017 01:11 PM)nj alum Wrote:  TIC

??? I don't know what TIC means.

Tongue in cheek ... sorry!

The $$ in actual beer sales is not that significant necessarily, but there are downstream $$ in salty snacks, extra butts in the seats, probably more raffle tix and tribeware sold and the likelihood of the party spilling over into the delis and hotel occupancy (growing the local economy and maybe sponsorships).

(12-13-2017 05:18 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  The $$ in actual beer sales is not that significant necessarily, but there are downstream $$ in salty snacks, extra butts in the seats, probably more raffle tix and tribeware sold and the likelihood of the party spilling over into the delis and hotel occupancy (growing the local economy and maybe sponsorships).

Unless you're selling more tickets I'm not sure that's true. That sounds a lot like the argument that building a new stadium provides an economic boost to cities that's been disproven.

(12-14-2017 01:33 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 05:18 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  The $$ in actual beer sales is not that significant necessarily, but there are downstream $$ in salty snacks, extra butts in the seats, probably more raffle tix and tribeware sold and the likelihood of the party spilling over into the delis and hotel occupancy (growing the local economy and maybe sponsorships).

Unless you're selling more tickets I'm not sure that's true. That sounds a lot like the argument that building a new stadium provides an economic boost to cities that's been disproven.

I'm sure there are ancillary benefits someplace, but you could also argue that in-game beers take away from post-game sales at the Leaf, cut down on tailgating because of more ridesharing.

The biggest benefit of all this is the potential for sponsorship revenue.

I’ve championed this cause from for years. Let’s not discount the possibility of brightening those afternoons and evenings in the friendly confines of Plumeri! A toot or two and baseball go hand in glove. A cold one or three would highlight the flavors from that fresh Mexican cuisine I hope for. Are you listening Ms Huge? Our local college baseball team has all of this available. It works. Of course we have a lot more Hispanic fans. But you might be surprised to realize how many Latino’s are living in JC County! Viva biesbol.

Oy, this discussion goes on endlessly (on two different threads to boot!). Only one person at W&M can start to do anything about this; instead of duplicating yawn-invoking discussion on these tortured pages,
which read like an imbibers lament, send your comments to Samantha Huge.

If anything were to happen, and our new AD appears an adventurous sort, it's up to Samantha to get it going.

I am not going to send Purdue stuff to the AD ... I'm sure she's clued in to what is happening at the various levels of college athletics.

I'm just trying to pass information along to that portion of our fan base that resides here because information and discussion is good.

That's how this thread started.

If I want to do something about something, I go to the source, through other folks or directly, and advocate for things like Gold Rush, Gold Rush on Charter Day, etc.

Finally, let me disabuse you of your insinuations. I could care less about alcohol. I rarely touch the stuff. That's not the point. The point is that other people do. The point is that other schools are catering to those who do. There's a benefit there somewhere ... sales, increased attendance, better atmosphere, future donations. etc.

If you don't like the topic, don't read the topic.

http://www.jconline.com/story/sports/col...329664002/