(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:59 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:47 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:43 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  Saw this coming a mile away... Thanks MSM!

it goes much deeper....just wait 'til the jihad takes out soft targets like this....they all prey on the weakness that is deemed "utopian" thought.....

humanity thought processing is severely lagging behind technology advancement....hence, violence that is deemed as benevolent by 'their ilk'

this cannot end well....

#mobrules

This. It only ends with a heavy handed crackdown on those pushing the rhetoric and protesters that take things too far. It will feel like a police state to anybody in the opposition, and even some that support Trump. Nobody should want that, but the only way to end political violence like this is to appeal to people's morality or use brute force. The "resistance", Islamic terrorists, BLM, and others responsible for stuff like this have repeatedly demonstrated their weak moral compasses, so all that is left is brute force. It's a sad day.


All that said, this could still be some right of center nutjob or one-off wacko, but I doubt it.

two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

What does this have to do with capitalism?

(06-14-2017 08:08 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:59 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:47 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:43 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  Saw this coming a mile away... Thanks MSM!

it goes much deeper....just wait 'til the jihad takes out soft targets like this....they all prey on the weakness that is deemed "utopian" thought.....

humanity thought processing is severely lagging behind technology advancement....hence, violence that is deemed as benevolent by 'their ilk'

this cannot end well....

#mobrules

This. It only ends with a heavy handed crackdown on those pushing the rhetoric and protesters that take things too far. It will feel like a police state to anybody in the opposition, and even some that support Trump. Nobody should want that, but the only way to end political violence like this is to appeal to people's morality or use brute force. The "resistance", Islamic terrorists, BLM, and others responsible for stuff like this have repeatedly demonstrated their weak moral compasses, so all that is left is brute force. It's a sad day.


All that said, this could still be some right of center nutjob or one-off wacko, but I doubt it.

two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

What does this have to do with capitalism?

decades of ignoring the meek by both parties in the current system has created a class division that have become overwhelming in numbers and simply unrecoverable....

or have you not been paying attention how this is playing out after decades of fail from both sides of the aisle???

this is the number one thing Trump has recognized by "making america great again"

(06-14-2017 08:13 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:08 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:59 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:47 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  it goes much deeper....just wait 'til the jihad takes out soft targets like this....they all prey on the weakness that is deemed "utopian" thought.....

humanity thought processing is severely lagging behind technology advancement....hence, violence that is deemed as benevolent by 'their ilk'

this cannot end well....

#mobrules

This. It only ends with a heavy handed crackdown on those pushing the rhetoric and protesters that take things too far. It will feel like a police state to anybody in the opposition, and even some that support Trump. Nobody should want that, but the only way to end political violence like this is to appeal to people's morality or use brute force. The "resistance", Islamic terrorists, BLM, and others responsible for stuff like this have repeatedly demonstrated their weak moral compasses, so all that is left is brute force. It's a sad day.


All that said, this could still be some right of center nutjob or one-off wacko, but I doubt it.

two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

What does this have to do with capitalism?

decades of ignoring the meek by both parties in the current system has created a class division that have become overwhelming in numbers and simply unrecoverable....

or have you not been paying attention how this is playing out after decades of fail from both sides of the aisle???

this is the number one thing Trump has recognized by "making america great again"

Some people have passed on opportunities to improve their lives. It isn't the governments responsibility to plan out the course of an individual's life. That is what they do in Russia and China. In many cases the people that have not succeeded in America have chosen to fail. I'm sure they never came out and said, "I want to be poor when I grow up", or "I never want to have anything good in life", but the many choices they have made in their life have led to their current situation.

I was not born with any monetary of social advantages, but I made good choices in life. I chose to do the best I could in school, despite attending a less affluent public school. I chose to save what I earned instead of wasting it frivolously. Basically, I chose to be responsible. Others should too.

What you have described isn't a "capitalism" problem. It is a problem of personal responsibility, and personal responsibility has historically been a problem for liberals.

(06-14-2017 08:31 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:13 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:08 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:59 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  This. It only ends with a heavy handed crackdown on those pushing the rhetoric and protesters that take things too far. It will feel like a police state to anybody in the opposition, and even some that support Trump. Nobody should want that, but the only way to end political violence like this is to appeal to people's morality or use brute force. The "resistance", Islamic terrorists, BLM, and others responsible for stuff like this have repeatedly demonstrated their weak moral compasses, so all that is left is brute force. It's a sad day.


All that said, this could still be some right of center nutjob or one-off wacko, but I doubt it.

two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

What does this have to do with capitalism?

decades of ignoring the meek by both parties in the current system has created a class division that have become overwhelming in numbers and simply unrecoverable....

or have you not been paying attention how this is playing out after decades of fail from both sides of the aisle???

this is the number one thing Trump has recognized by "making america great again"

Some people have passed on opportunities to improve their lives. It isn't the governments responsibility to plan out the course of an individual's life. That is what they do in Russia and China. In many cases the people that have not succeeded in America have chosen to fail. I'm sure they never came out and said, "I want to be poor when I grow up", or "I never want to have anything good in life", but the many choices they have made in their life have led to their current situation.

I was not born with any monetary of social advantages, but I made good choices in life. I chose to do the best I could in school, despite attending a less affluent public school. I chose to save what I earned instead of wasting it frivolously. Basically, I chose to be responsible. Others should too.

What you have described isn't a "capitalism" problem. It is a problem of personal responsibility, and personal responsibility has historically been a problem for liberals.

Capitalism is the one thing that can help poor people. Just ask the poor in Venezuela how things are going.

(06-14-2017 08:31 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Some people have passed on opportunities to improve their lives. It isn't the governments responsibility to plan out the course of an individual's life. That is what they do in Russia and China. In many cases the people that have not succeeded in America have chosen to fail. I'm sure they never came out and said, "I want to be poor when I grow up", or "I never want to have anything good in life", but the many choices they have made in their life have led to their current situation.

I was not born with any monetary of social advantages, but I made good choices in life. I chose to do the best I could in school, despite attending a less affluent public school. I chose to save what I earned instead of wasting it frivolously. Basically, I chose to be responsible. Others should too.

What you have described isn't a "capitalism" problem. It is a problem of personal responsibility, and personal responsibility has historically been a problem for liberals.

I hate to break this to you but even if everybody did all the things you're talking about there's still a numbers problem. Many aren't fit for university but would excel at trades and manufacturing. We're outsourcing and importing those jobs away too.

To be very clear I'm not running down Capitalism. We don't really have that anymore. We have crony capitalism.

(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:59 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:47 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:43 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  Saw this coming a mile away... Thanks MSM!

it goes much deeper....just wait 'til the jihad takes out soft targets like this....they all prey on the weakness that is deemed "utopian" thought.....

humanity thought processing is severely lagging behind technology advancement....hence, violence that is deemed as benevolent by 'their ilk'

this cannot end well....

#mobrules

This. It only ends with a heavy handed crackdown on those pushing the rhetoric and protesters that take things too far. It will feel like a police state to anybody in the opposition, and even some that support Trump. Nobody should want that, but the only way to end political violence like this is to appeal to people's morality or use brute force. The "resistance", Islamic terrorists, BLM, and others responsible for stuff like this have repeatedly demonstrated their weak moral compasses, so all that is left is brute force. It's a sad day.


All that said, this could still be some right of center nutjob or one-off wacko, but I doubt it.

two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

I disagree. One of the issues with this opinion is that we haven't had a truly capitalist economy in a long time now. There really isn't any "pure" economic system/philosophy being ran today anywhere - save the black market which I would say is essentially pure capitalism. In the U.S., the black market is a very small part of the economy, so that is moot. We've had a mixed economy for a long time, and if you look at each economic system you can find "Armageddon" situations in all of them. Most of our utilities are either gov't run/owned or gov't sanctioned monopolies where the gov't strictly regulates how the privately owned utility can operate. Public education is controlled by the gov't, and education standards enacted by the gov't have to be met regardless of which type of school you go to. There are other examples.

Having said all that, the U.S. is what I would call "free market capitalist" dominant in economics. The majority of the means of production and the resources are held by private concerns. You can have free market socialism too, and for a small part of the U.S. economy we have that as a secondary system overlaying the dominant system. In our system, sure you risk concentrating wealth among a few with the masses potentially losing out as a result of market forces and greed. If this is your thought, then sure that's quite possible and it may be what we're seeing today.

However, I think the situation is a lot more complicated and that what we're seeing as as much of a gov't system problem - perhaps more so - than an economic one. What I think the primary problem we have is political, and that our 2 party system has become so enmeshed in gov't that even people today will think that hacking DNC or RNC headquarters IS hacking into the gov't. I think we need to let that sink in a bit. IMHO we have a mixed mode in gov't where we operate as if we are a republic; however, we have a significant component of our gov't system that is actually an oligarchy. A small collection of people within both parties that essentially control the various senators and representatives to follow the party line. For "hopeless causes", the senators and reps on the losing side will be allowed to "vote their conscience" in order to maintain the veneer of independence.

Our oligarchs are the root cause of the problem. They are the ones that are exchanging money/influence to various factions of people in order to maintain power. When our oligarchs feel threatened, they engage in over the top rhetoric to "rally the base". The base will take action - some in irrational and unhealthy ways -if they feel that their cause and/or benefits are at risk. IMHO, this is what we are seeing play out.

(06-14-2017 08:31 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:13 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:08 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:59 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  This. It only ends with a heavy handed crackdown on those pushing the rhetoric and protesters that take things too far. It will feel like a police state to anybody in the opposition, and even some that support Trump. Nobody should want that, but the only way to end political violence like this is to appeal to people's morality or use brute force. The "resistance", Islamic terrorists, BLM, and others responsible for stuff like this have repeatedly demonstrated their weak moral compasses, so all that is left is brute force. It's a sad day.


All that said, this could still be some right of center nutjob or one-off wacko, but I doubt it.

two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

What does this have to do with capitalism?

decades of ignoring the meek by both parties in the current system has created a class division that have become overwhelming in numbers and simply unrecoverable....

or have you not been paying attention how this is playing out after decades of fail from both sides of the aisle???

this is the number one thing Trump has recognized by "making america great again"

Some people have passed on opportunities to improve their lives. It isn't the governments responsibility to plan out the course of an individual's life. That is what they do in Russia and China. In many cases the people that have not succeeded in America have chosen to fail. I'm sure they never came out and said, "I want to be poor when I grow up", or "I never want to have anything good in life", but the many choices they have made in their life have led to their current situation.

I was not born with any monetary of social advantages, but I made good choices in life. I chose to do the best I could in school, despite attending a less affluent public school. I chose to save what I earned instead of wasting it frivolously. Basically, I chose to be responsible. Others should too.

What you have described isn't a "capitalism" problem. It is a problem of personal responsibility, and personal responsibility has historically been a problem for liberals.

I don't disagree....good for you....

however, when the premise becomes a two party system that unilaterally continues to promote division by creating laws between those that 'have' or 'have not' (red = tax reduction incentives AND blue creates welfare status as a norm), that's where I go south in that logic....

until we restructure our tax system (funny how it goes back to that 'representation thingy') via a consumption tax, I believe that status quo will only continue to evolve into what we are now seeing on a weekly basis at this point.....

NOT ONE ************ on the hill is speaking that language today.........

imagine this.....the market crashes due to overwhelming debt not being robbed by 401k influence and the numbers of those that are now no longer involved.....

Jim Rogers has it right....so do I....we just don't know when.....

#dipshites

(06-14-2017 08:39 AM)dfarr Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:31 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:13 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:08 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

What does this have to do with capitalism?

decades of ignoring the meek by both parties in the current system has created a class division that have become overwhelming in numbers and simply unrecoverable....

or have you not been paying attention how this is playing out after decades of fail from both sides of the aisle???

this is the number one thing Trump has recognized by "making america great again"

Some people have passed on opportunities to improve their lives. It isn't the governments responsibility to plan out the course of an individual's life. That is what they do in Russia and China. In many cases the people that have not succeeded in America have chosen to fail. I'm sure they never came out and said, "I want to be poor when I grow up", or "I never want to have anything good in life", but the many choices they have made in their life have led to their current situation.

I was not born with any monetary of social advantages, but I made good choices in life. I chose to do the best I could in school, despite attending a less affluent public school. I chose to save what I earned instead of wasting it frivolously. Basically, I chose to be responsible. Others should too.

What you have described isn't a "capitalism" problem. It is a problem of personal responsibility, and personal responsibility has historically been a problem for liberals.

Capitalism is the one thing that can help poor people. Just ask the poor in Venezuela how things are going.

Under socialism, EVERYBODY gets the same crappy life, EXCEPT for those in power.

Its why its so laughable to hear Bernie tell people its the way to go. He wants ALL of the people on the same crappy living level, while he himself drives a Ferrari and lives in a $600K house that he didnt have to earn the money for.

(06-14-2017 08:39 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:31 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Some people have passed on opportunities to improve their lives. It isn't the governments responsibility to plan out the course of an individual's life. That is what they do in Russia and China. In many cases the people that have not succeeded in America have chosen to fail. I'm sure they never came out and said, "I want to be poor when I grow up", or "I never want to have anything good in life", but the many choices they have made in their life have led to their current situation.

I was not born with any monetary of social advantages, but I made good choices in life. I chose to do the best I could in school, despite attending a less affluent public school. I chose to save what I earned instead of wasting it frivolously. Basically, I chose to be responsible. Others should too.

What you have described isn't a "capitalism" problem. It is a problem of personal responsibility, and personal responsibility has historically been a problem for liberals.

I hate to break this to you but even if everybody did all the things you're talking about there's still a numbers problem. Many aren't fit for university but would excel at trades and manufacturing. We're outsourcing and importing those jobs away too.

To be very clear I'm not running down Capitalism. We don't really have that anymore. We have crony capitalism.

somebody earned a rep rating....

take it further into developing an education system that flows in tandem with the needs of the whole.....that's a winner!

#DJT

(06-14-2017 08:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 08:04 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:59 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:47 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:43 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  Saw this coming a mile away... Thanks MSM!

it goes much deeper....just wait 'til the jihad takes out soft targets like this....they all prey on the weakness that is deemed "utopian" thought.....

humanity thought processing is severely lagging behind technology advancement....hence, violence that is deemed as benevolent by 'their ilk'

this cannot end well....

#mobrules

This. It only ends with a heavy handed crackdown on those pushing the rhetoric and protesters that take things too far. It will feel like a police state to anybody in the opposition, and even some that support Trump. Nobody should want that, but the only way to end political violence like this is to appeal to people's morality or use brute force. The "resistance", Islamic terrorists, BLM, and others responsible for stuff like this have repeatedly demonstrated their weak moral compasses, so all that is left is brute force. It's a sad day.


All that said, this could still be some right of center nutjob or one-off wacko, but I doubt it.

two words....

Kent State

what makes it really scary, are those that have no choice left and will do whatever to take themselves out along the way.....

....back the animal in the corner.....

it's the overall problem with capitalism....always has been.....we're simply realizing the "now effect".....

that's why the 2nd amendment is easily the best of the rest in a republic....

I disagree. One of the issues with this opinion is that we haven't had a truly capitalist economy in a long time now. There really isn't any "pure" economic system/philosophy being ran today anywhere - save the black market which I would say is essentially pure capitalism. In the U.S., the black market is a very small part of the economy, so that is moot. We've had a mixed economy for a long time, and if you look at each economic system you can find "Armageddon" situations in all of them. Most of our utilities are either gov't run/owned or gov't sanctioned monopolies where the gov't strictly regulates how the privately owned utility can operate. Public education is controlled by the gov't, and education standards enacted by the gov't have to be met regardless of which type of school you go to. There are other examples.

Having said all that, the U.S. is what I would call "free market capitalist" dominant in economics. The majority of the means of production and the resources are held by private concerns. You can have free market socialism too, and for a small part of the U.S. economy we have that as a secondary system overlaying the dominant system. In our system, sure you risk concentrating wealth among a few with the masses potentially losing out as a result of market forces and greed. If this is your thought, then sure that's quite possible and it may be what we're seeing today.

However, I think the situation is a lot more complicated and that what we're seeing as as much of a gov't system problem - perhaps more so - than an economic one. What I think the primary problem we have is political, and that our 2 party system has become so enmeshed in gov't that even people today will think that hacking DNC or RNC headquarters IS hacking into the gov't. I think we need to let that sink in a bit. IMHO we have a mixed mode in gov't where we operate as if we are a republic; however, we have a significant component of our gov't system that is actually an oligarchy. A small collection of people within both parties that essentially control the various senators and representatives to follow the party line. For "hopeless causes", the senators and reps on the losing side will be allowed to "vote their conscience" in order to maintain the veneer of independence.

Our oligarchs are the root cause of the problem. They are the ones that are exchanging money/influence to various factions of people in order to maintain power. When our oligarchs feel threatened, they engage in over the top rhetoric to "rally the base". The base will take action - some in irrational and unhealthy ways -if they feel that their cause and/or benefits are at risk. IMHO, this is what we are seeing play out.

we're on the same page.....I don't always convey in a few sentences and rely upon the bulk of what I've written over time.....

it's a fault I have....I hate repeating myself....