Not all voters are as logical as you, Owl!

(06-13-2017 11:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Not all voters are as logical as you, Owl!

I am assuming you meant that seriously, not sarcastically, so thanks.

Agree absolutely that not all voters are reasonable or sensible or logical. I can think of relevant quotes from Adlai Stevenson and P.T. Barnum.

Nonetheless, they have votes.

I think the majority of voting Americans have very little sympathy for the revenues and profits of healthcare insurance and healthcare provider companies. Very little


Myself, well for example when Hambone complains on here time to time about how low the reimbursements are for the procedures provided by the clinics he works for, I just have very little sympathy about that. At the end of the day, pretty much the only thing I care about when it comes to the overall heathcare industry is the wellbeing of patients and the wellbeing of doctors, nurses, and clinical staff. That's pretty much it. I have a hard time mustering up much sympathy for any other aspect of it.

(06-13-2017 11:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Nonetheless, they have votes.

I think the majority of voting Americans have very little sympathy for the revenues and profits of healthcare insurance and healthcare provider companies. Very little

Unless they happen to work for them.

You can say that about any industry. How many Americans go out to buy a car and care about the profits of the auto manufacturers? Is someone buying Cheerios happy to pay more if the President of General Mills gets a big bonus?

Maybe it would be better if more voters understood that profits drive innovation and economic progress, and increases in the standard of living.

Maybe it would. I'm just commenting on my opinion about how profits/revenues in healthcare are perceived by the general public.

So what's the hold up?

I have headed repeal and replace for the better part of a decade...

Republicans have he house, senate, presidency, and supreme court. Apparently POTUS is the greatest negotiator of all time and "he alone can fix it."

It's almost like republicans spent all their time and energy on being obstructionist and forgot how to govern. Did they not come up with an air tight replacement plan their members could support after 7 years and over 60 repeal attempts while shouting about replacement?

If they come up with a better plan I would support it but as it stands now it seems like there is no plan at all. But I mean hey, "who knew healthcare could be so complicated."

Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Yep, can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Repeal and don't replace would be political suicide.

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Angry voters who have lost coverage who were receiving it for free.

Let's not forget that a reason the left lost the last election is because Obama removed access to affordable healthcare to many of the tax payers who were funding the free ride that others got.

Anger can be a very efficient motivator, in voting.

(06-13-2017 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Angry voters who have lost coverage who were receiving it for free.

Let's not forget that a reason the left lost the last election is because Obama removed access to affordable healthcare to many of the tax payers who were funding the free ride that others got.

The left lost the last election because their candidate sucked ass. Do you remember when Obama got elected and the left was complaining Bush ruined the economy and the response from the right was "Bush is gone you are accountable for everything now." Cause I sure do. Well Obama is gone you are accountable for everything now. Stop blaming obama, stop comparing yourself to Clinton, get it together and do something about it.

(06-13-2017 12:28 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Angry voters who have lost coverage who were receiving it for free.

Let's not forget that a reason the left lost the last election is because Obama removed access to affordable healthcare to many of the tax payers who were funding the free ride that others got.

The left lost the last election because their candidate sucked ass. Do you remember when Obama got elected and the left was complaining Bush ruined the economy and the response from the right was "Bush is gone you are accountable for everything now." Cause I sure do. Well Obama is gone you are accountable for everything now. Stop blaming obama, stop comparing yourself to Clinton, get it together and do something about it.

I guess you forgot about the left still blamed Bush for everything... after 8 years.

(06-13-2017 12:34 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:28 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Angry voters who have lost coverage who were receiving it for free.

Let's not forget that a reason the left lost the last election is because Obama removed access to affordable healthcare to many of the tax payers who were funding the free ride that others got.

The left lost the last election because their candidate sucked ass. Do you remember when Obama got elected and the left was complaining Bush ruined the economy and the response from the right was "Bush is gone you are accountable for everything now." Cause I sure do. Well Obama is gone you are accountable for everything now. Stop blaming obama, stop comparing yourself to Clinton, get it together and do something about it.

I guess you forgot about the left still blamed Bush for everything... after 8 years.

But but but the left did it...

(06-13-2017 12:49 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:34 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:28 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Angry voters who have lost coverage who were receiving it for free.

Let's not forget that a reason the left lost the last election is because Obama removed access to affordable healthcare to many of the tax payers who were funding the free ride that others got.

The left lost the last election because their candidate sucked ass. Do you remember when Obama got elected and the left was complaining Bush ruined the economy and the response from the right was "Bush is gone you are accountable for everything now." Cause I sure do. Well Obama is gone you are accountable for everything now. Stop blaming obama, stop comparing yourself to Clinton, get it together and do something about it.

I guess you forgot about the left still blamed Bush for everything... after 8 years.

But but but the left did it...

Quote:Do as I say, not as I do.

-Libtard Motto

(06-13-2017 12:28 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Angry voters who have lost coverage who were receiving it for free.

Let's not forget that a reason the left lost the last election is because Obama removed access to affordable healthcare to many of the tax payers who were funding the free ride that others got.

The left lost the last election because their candidate sucked ass. Do you remember when Obama got elected and the left was complaining Bush ruined the economy and the response from the right was "Bush is gone you are accountable for everything now." Cause I sure do. Well Obama is gone you are accountable for everything now. Stop blaming obama, stop comparing yourself to Clinton, get it together and do something about it.

Partly

1. She sucked ass
2. Obama and the left took an 8 year dump on the working class
3. Obama and the left removed affordable healthcare from the working class
4. Hillary and the left were for the status quo, and still couldnt get a message out about what they were for.

And cut out your butthurt response about "doing something". Trump has done more in 5 months than any president I can remember, despite the fact that the butthurt left is stalling his appointees, bitching about a fake news russia story nonstop, and members of Obamas weaponized intelligence team are leaking classified material trying to stop him. Yet he continues to roll over the left.

(06-13-2017 11:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 10:58 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Instead, they think about the time that a relative or immediate family member had a perfectly valid claim rejected, or a time when the plan refused to cover something that was reasonable and would have had a significant positive impact on quality of life.

Were these things that were rejected covered under the terms of the policy?

Quote:Or they think about that time where the hospital screwed up, or made them wait a really long time.

If waiting a long time is a problem, they're not going to like single payer.

(06-13-2017 10:58 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Every time people read about healthcare insurance companies complaining about revenues, or about healthcare providers complaining about reimbursement rates .... pretty much no one has much of any sympathy for you. Instead, they think about the time that a relative or immediate family member had a perfectly valid claim rejected, or a time when the plan refused to cover something that was reasonable and would have had a significant positive impact on quality of life. Or they think about that time where the hospital screwed up, or made them wait a really long time.

People pretty much HATE the healthcare industry, right now.

What makes you think I haven't experienced the same thing?

Putting these together like this because they're related.

What you're saying is that people are stupid and they're going to cut off their noses to spite their faces... which is certainly possible... and even likely...

but I'm more interested in 'the right thing' than the popular one.

I think people more interested in exploiting the anger are stupid and will cause more problems than insurance ever did. Insurers can simply close their doors (as they are already) and invest in something else. It's not as if they have to provide health insurance. Doctors too can go pimp GNC nutritional supplements and tell you to screw yourself for primary care...

So now you have a situation where there are even fewer providers and no insurance companies.

NOW what does our healthcare system look like?

(06-13-2017 12:57 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:28 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe they just simply decide to repeal and don't replace it with anything, essentially going back to the way it was.

However, that plan is risky in the sense of losing elections due to angry voters who have lost coverage.

Angry voters who have lost coverage who were receiving it for free.

Let's not forget that a reason the left lost the last election is because Obama removed access to affordable healthcare to many of the tax payers who were funding the free ride that others got.

The left lost the last election because their candidate sucked ass. Do you remember when Obama got elected and the left was complaining Bush ruined the economy and the response from the right was "Bush is gone you are accountable for everything now." Cause I sure do. Well Obama is gone you are accountable for everything now. Stop blaming obama, stop comparing yourself to Clinton, get it together and do something about it.

Partly

1. She sucked ass
2. Obama and the left took an 8 year dump on the working class
3. Obama and the left removed affordable healthcare from the working class
4. Hillary and the left were for the status quo, and still couldnt get a message out about what they were for.

And cut out your butthurt response about "doing something". Trump has done more in 5 months than any president I can remember, despite the fact that the butthurt left is stalling his appointees, bitching about a fake news russia story nonstop, and members of Obamas weaponized intelligence team are leaking classified material trying to stop him. Yet he continues to roll over the left.

1-4 partisan opinion

Trump the great negotiator hasn't signed a single piece of legislation... All he has done is the dreaded executive orders you just spent the 8 years railing against. His big campaign promises are being shot down by the court's and he's shooting himself in the foot at every turn.

You tired of wining yet?

(06-13-2017 10:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  The insurance industry in some areas of insurance basically has a fraudulent model. They don't pay until you threaten to sue. Its a way of keeping the money longer and avoiding payment in some cases. That has filtered into health insurance. United Healthcare has lost several suits related to their fake "reasonable and customary" model as well as efforts to refuse payment to providers and insureds.

I work in the medical professional liability/healthcare industry. Nationally, more cases are won by summary judgment and by defense verdict as opposed to cases we lose. Most cases are not as black and white with respects to liability and often there are additional questions with respects to causation of injuries.

Given that more cases are found to be non-meritorious, while should an insurer/entity settle a case early? Even in the event that a case does have some meritorious, doesn't the defendant have the right to go through some discovery in an effort to put the plaintiff at risk, thereby aiding settlement discussions?

(06-13-2017 11:52 AM)Godzilla Wrote:  So what's the hold up?

I have headed repeal and replace for the better part of a decade...

Republicans have he house, senate, presidency, and supreme court. Apparently POTUS is the greatest negotiator of all time and "he alone can fix it."

It's almost like republicans spent all their time and energy on being obstructionist and forgot how to govern. Did they not come up with an air tight replacement plan their members could support after 7 years and over 60 repeal attempts while shouting about replacement?

If they come up with a better plan I would support it but as it stands now it seems like there is no plan at all. But I mean hey, "who knew healthcare could be so complicated."

I agree, what's the holdup?

The only reasonable explanation I can surmise is not that they forgot how to govern; rather, they like it the way it is.

They don't want to change anything. But now, they're being exposed. The voters voted for change and expected change.

Before, the RINOs could feign a vote knowing Obama would veto. Now, that tactic has been removed. They don't know what to do.

(06-13-2017 01:59 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 11:52 AM)Godzilla Wrote:  So what's the hold up?

I have headed repeal and replace for the better part of a decade...

Republicans have he house, senate, presidency, and supreme court. Apparently POTUS is the greatest negotiator of all time and "he alone can fix it."

It's almost like republicans spent all their time and energy on being obstructionist and forgot how to govern. Did they not come up with an air tight replacement plan their members could support after 7 years and over 60 repeal attempts while shouting about replacement?

If they come up with a better plan I would support it but as it stands now it seems like there is no plan at all. But I mean hey, "who knew healthcare could be so complicated."

I agree, what's the holdup?

The only reasonable explanation I can surmise is not that they forgot how to govern; rather, they like it the way it is.

They don't want to change anything. But now, they're being exposed. The voters voted for change and expected change.

Before, the RINOs could feign a vote knowing Obama would veto. Now, that tactic has been removed. They don't know what to do.

Yep, either repeal the damn thing or shut the hell up. They want to complain about how Obamacare is the worst thing ever and is ruining healthcare as we know it, well there's nothing stopping the GOP from changing it. They control everything, they don't want or need a single Dem vote, but they can't agree to anything. They passed countless repeals when it was just for show, but now that they run the show they can't pass a damn thing.