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Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
Okay, some good news: We spend more on basketball than Radford and Longwood and they have no football team. And...and...JMU has yet to double our basketball budget. We're fending them off!

I just don't have the time but I would LOVE for one of you to post the following information:

1) Who are the main people responsible for this embarrassment?

2) Their contact information.

3) Their salaries.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2017 10:33 PM by Tribal.)
06-11-2017 10:32 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
Liberty is a very poor academic school and within academia is considered somewhat of a joke. Unlike other religious-oriented institutions it is rigidly controlled, has a very narrow band of students applying
and it's ultra-religious stance makes it almost impossible to attract faculty representing a polyglot of beliefs and teachings.

It advertises like crazy in Virginia newspapers, even publishing a monthly magazine in them and is spending millions of Fallwell's money to make a big-time athletic impact. Even in athletics it continues to have trouble attracting a broad mix of athletes like other colleges due to its rigid dogma.
06-12-2017 05:31 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-12-2017 05:31 AM)BigTribe3 Wrote:  Liberty is a very poor academic school and within academia is considered somewhat of a joke. Unlike other religious-oriented institutions it is rigidly controlled, has a very narrow band of students applying
and it's ultra-religious stance makes it almost impossible to attract faculty representing a polyglot of beliefs and teachings.

It advertises like crazy in Virginia newspapers, even publishing a monthly magazine in them and is spending millions of Fallwell's money to make a big-time athletic impact. Even in athletics it continues to have trouble attracting a broad mix of athletes like other colleges due to its rigid dogma.

A joke you say, as they pass us by as they are doing with so many. "Academia" considers anyone right of Elizabeth Warren a joke. "Academia" seems to me Is becoming ntolerant indoctrination, not Liberty.

That said, the bbl numbers for W&M are the joke. Unless someone is getting bonused on ROI, someone should have their face rubbed in this article.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2017 06:19 AM by Sitting bull.)
06-12-2017 05:50 AM
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hktribefan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-11-2017 05:09 PM)Pete24 Wrote:  What is most significant to me on this list is Liberty University. They are 3rd in the state in football spending and 4th in basketball.
If you have followed Liberty over the years, this is amazing.
Ten years ago, Liberty University was deeply in debt, with no endowment.
Then, two things happened. First, in 2007, Jerry Falwell, Sr died -- and left the payout from his $34 life million insurance policy to the college.
The second thing that has happened is that Liberty's online college grew exponentially. They now have over 100,000 online students (4th largest online college in the U.S.), in addition to 12,000 on campus. And this online cash seems to be fueling their investment in athletics.
Every athletic team's facility has undergone a transformation since 2011 and they are all expandable. On a side note, Liberty athletics was in the news recently for agreeing to pay ODU an absurd $1.3 million appearance fee to come play them in Lynchburg in 2018.
Looking at the big picture, I am of the opinion that Liberty University's emphasis of their online college hurts their academic reputation and de-values a degree from Liberty.

Wow ODU vs Liberty, I really don't know who I want to lose that game more...
06-12-2017 10:05 AM
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Tribe2011 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
This seems to be the strongest evidence yet (and there's been a LONG string of evidence) that we are funding way too many sports and it's hurting the college as a whole.
06-12-2017 10:54 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
I tend to agree with you Tribe2011. I also think we're in some of the wrong sports too. I hear all of this jargon about "history", etc, but some of our teams are horrible. I suggest that Huge takes a step back and asks a simple question: "What sports should we compete in given the demographics of where our students come from?". You will find right away that lacrosse makes the list, but men's gymnastics doesn't. Golf? Tennis? People will go nuts, but Track?
06-12-2017 11:14 AM
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Rocco Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-12-2017 10:54 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  This seems to be the strongest evidence yet (and there's been a LONG string of evidence) that we are funding way too many sports and it's hurting the college as a whole.

Either they have to make a bigger pie or not cut the pie into as many slices.
06-12-2017 01:32 PM
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Got Ribe Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
If you're interested in drilling down a bit, check out the latest APA report for our athletic program and JMU's.
06-12-2017 03:06 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-11-2017 02:34 PM)Got Ribe Wrote:  
(06-11-2017 02:14 PM)Mrs. Got Ribe Wrote:  I think I'll let Mr GR handle that one. Have at it...

Oh thanks. 03-banghead

The policy, as it was explained to us, will be to apply some portion of the funds previously spent on scholarships back to the basketball program. It definitely won't be all of the money. My sense is that all sports will benefit from the savings, and that basketball has reason to hope that it will benefit more than most.

There's nothing nefarious here, and these are good people making tough decisions, but if you tried to take a gift which was supposed to be about basketball and turn it into something else entirely, this is exactly what you would do.

Serenity now.

I feel as though it needs to be said that if you can't see the fact that investing in a basketball program will give you a greater ROI than other sports then you are bad at your job and perhaps the "sports business" field isn't for you.

I don't even care that it's not nefarious and that these are good people (which they are). You cannot be this inept and expect to hold on to your position. What is the possible rationale for (essentially) diverting basketball funds?
06-12-2017 03:29 PM
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Mrs. Got Ribe Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-12-2017 03:06 PM)Got Ribe Wrote:  If you're interested in drilling down a bit, check out the latest APA report for our athletic program and JMU's.

MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE.

I have only had about 120 seconds to look at this. I will study it further tonight. This is what jumped out at me on first look:

1. Basketball gets $0 student fee money.
2. Football operates at a 1.3 million dollar deficit. Basketball's deficit last year? $1,750.

That's a 20% deficit versus a .09% deficit--if my quick math is correct. If basketball wants to spend money on something, like summer school or the international trip, they either have to raise it from private funds or secure another road game with a big payday.
06-12-2017 04:21 PM
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TribeNomad Online
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Post: #31
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-12-2017 05:31 AM)BigTribe3 Wrote:  Liberty is a very poor academic school and within academia is considered somewhat of a joke. Unlike other religious-oriented institutions it is rigidly controlled, has a very narrow band of students applying
and it's ultra-religious stance makes it almost impossible to attract faculty representing a polyglot of beliefs and teachings.

It advertises like crazy in Virginia newspapers, even publishing a monthly magazine in them and is spending millions of Fallwell's money to make a big-time athletic impact. Even in athletics it continues to have trouble attracting a broad mix of athletes like other colleges due to its rigid dogma.

I am no fan of Liberty, but they have tapped into the wave of the future. Many today cannot afford the price tag for the traditional, on campus experience, and many do not care about the benefits of a residential setting. Colleges with lots of overhead (buildings, layers of Admin. with VP's of thisa and thata) are going to fade away.
06-12-2017 05:29 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
I'd support a massive online program if it gave us more money than we could spend.

I cherish my W&M degree, but I'll tell you this, where one earns a degree is usually not as important as it was a decade ago. A 4-year degree from Mason and a solid internship is probably more valuable than a similar degree from Georgetown without the internship.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2017 08:37 PM by Tribal.)
06-12-2017 08:36 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-12-2017 05:50 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  
(06-12-2017 05:31 AM)BigTribe3 Wrote:  Liberty is a very poor academic school and within academia is considered somewhat of a joke. Unlike other religious-oriented institutions it is rigidly controlled, has a very narrow band of students applying
and it's ultra-religious stance makes it almost impossible to attract faculty representing a polyglot of beliefs and teachings.

It advertises like crazy in Virginia newspapers, even publishing a monthly magazine in them and is spending millions of Fallwell's money to make a big-time athletic impact. Even in athletics it continues to have trouble attracting a broad mix of athletes like other colleges due to its rigid dogma.

A joke you say, as they pass us by as they are doing with so many. "Academia" considers anyone right of Elizabeth Warren a joke. "Academia" seems to me Is becoming ntolerant indoctrination, not Liberty.

That said, the bbl numbers for W&M are the joke. Unless someone is getting bonused on ROI, someone should have their face rubbed in this article.
I get the valid arguments against LU and the credibility of their academics. I get the sometimes justified bashing of LU with their online ed module. I get the poke in the eye that LU receives from having very modest success in athletics beyond in the weak Big South Conference. With those points as the preface, what LU does have is a commitment, from it's conception 40+ years ago, to think outside the box, to be creative with their vision and admins with the vision to increase the school's visibility through athletics. LU is improving those points of weakness in academics that only higher grad rates, averages, % of attending vs. completing their degree, better quality professors and more will accomplish.

As LU strives toward it's FBS full membership, major benefits have already been accomplished, and will continue. As the comments go towards FBS play, with wins and loses, x's and o's, most sports fan will relish in taking about good plays, bad plays, poor officiating, missed calls and on-field action. To those who choose to snub LU there will always be justification. To those whose intent it is to snub LU continuously without acknowledging their success expresses an envy and jealousy.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2017 08:33 AM by NewTimes.)
06-13-2017 08:33 AM
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Tribe2011 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-12-2017 04:21 PM)Mrs. Got Ribe Wrote:  
(06-12-2017 03:06 PM)Got Ribe Wrote:  If you're interested in drilling down a bit, check out the latest APA report for our athletic program and JMU's.

MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE.

I have only had about 120 seconds to look at this. I will study it further tonight. This is what jumped out at me on first look:

1. Basketball gets $0 student fee money.
2. Football operates at a 1.3 million dollar deficit. Basketball's deficit last year? $1,750.

That's a 20% deficit versus a .09% deficit--if my quick math is correct. If basketball wants to spend money on something, like summer school or the international trip, they either have to raise it from private funds or secure another road game with a big payday.

I don't know the answer to this, so asking those that do (and I suspect there will be multiple different takes) - how much of this changes with a shift to a new AD and how much of this changes when Laycock leaves?

It seems reading between the lines that the athletic program has long been populated with those who have been here a long time and put football above all else. As we get new blood in, does that shift? I would guess that for a lot of the students in the last decade or so (at least for those who care about spots), they feel much more passionate about the basketball program than football.
06-13-2017 09:08 AM
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SoCal Frank Offline
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Post: #35
Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
A great thread. Lots to think about. For all you LU bashers, their train is on the track at full speed and we sit on a siding feeling their whoosh as they pass us by. Maybe, over time, all that sanctimony will be whooshed away. Until then, enjoy eating their dust.
Tribe athletics is stuck in a time warp that originated decades ago. That's the way they want it. We've embraced KC and the Sunshine Band's anthem.
06-13-2017 09:27 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
JMU fans play that "[school] passed us by" tune all of the time. I don't recall our charter citing FBS football or a fancy stadium. LU will NEVER pass us in the things that truly matter.

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06-13-2017 10:07 AM
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tribetime10 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-13-2017 09:27 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  A great thread. Lots to think about. For all you LU bashers, their train is on the track at full speed and we sit on a siding feeling their whoosh as they pass us by. Maybe, over time, all that sanctimony will be whooshed away. Until then, enjoy eating their dust.
Tribe athletics is stuck in a time warp that originated decades ago. That's the way they want it. We've embraced KC and the Sunshine Band's anthem.

Maybe its just me, but at this point, I have zero envy for Liberty.

I can potentially get it having a sense of envy with ODU--Regional rival that prioritized football, poured more money into it. Great facilities, solid fan base. As much as I cringe with envy writing this, they're doing a lot of stuff right in their athletic department in Norfolk.

But a private school based almost entirely in online that just hired the ousted Baylor AD to move them into a D-1?

I'll take my "small-time" football and basketball over that any day.
06-13-2017 10:12 AM
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tribetime10 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-13-2017 10:12 AM)tribetime10 Wrote:  
(06-13-2017 09:27 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  A great thread. Lots to think about. For all you LU bashers, their train is on the track at full speed and we sit on a siding feeling their whoosh as they pass us by. Maybe, over time, all that sanctimony will be whooshed away. Until then, enjoy eating their dust.
Tribe athletics is stuck in a time warp that originated decades ago. That's the way they want it. We've embraced KC and the Sunshine Band's anthem.

Maybe its just me, but at this point, I have zero envy for Liberty.

I can potentially get it having a sense of envy with ODU--Regional rival that prioritized football, poured more money into it. Great facilities, solid fan base. As much as I cringe with envy writing this, they're doing a lot of stuff right in their athletic department in Norfolk.

But a private school based almost entirely in online that just hired the ousted Baylor AD to move them into a D-1?

I'll take my "small-time" football and basketball over that any day.

And more importantly than my assessment of in-state envy: We have to prioritize basketball. If not now, when?

I don't care about P5 basketball or FBS Football and Bowl Games. I care about devoting the correct resources to our program to be successful. We've figured out how to be successful at our level in football. We need to do the same for basketball. Until the program gets serious about providing the support to the basketball team necessary to compete at our level, we won't ever hit our benchmarks.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2017 10:19 AM by tribetime10.)
06-13-2017 10:18 AM
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Mrs. Got Ribe Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-13-2017 10:18 AM)tribetime10 Wrote:  I don't care about P5 basketball or FBS Football and Bowl Games. I care about devoting the correct resources to our program to be successful. We've figured out how to be successful at our level in football. We need to do the same for basketball. Until the program gets serious about providing the support to the basketball team necessary to compete at our level, we won't ever hit our benchmarks.

It really is that simple.
06-13-2017 10:41 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Va Colleges Spending on Football & Basketball
(06-12-2017 03:06 PM)Got Ribe Wrote:  If you're interested in drilling down a bit, check out the latest APA report for our athletic program and JMU's.

Observations from looking at this data:

1. Salaries for football staff is $1.3M, for basketball .7M. Neither number is high and are not competitive in the industries. However, just noticing, don't we have more football coaches than basketball coaches? Hasn't our football coach been here for 37 years? Wasn't our former OC a former big shot with pro football experience? So, I am merely saying that I would have thought that the gap in salaries between football and basketball would have been larger.

2. Aren't there 53 scholarships in football (or is it 43?) and even more walk-ons? Aren't there only a maximum of 15 players in basketball? So why is the basketball recruiting budget LARGER (119K, 116K respectively) for basketball than for football?

3. Couldn't help but notice that JMU's recruiting budgets for football and basketball are 94K and 101K respectively --- less than ours!! I guess Madison lets their football national championship(s) do the recruiting for them!

4. The numbers shown for Fundraising, Marketing, and Promotion for football and basketball were 238 and 540. Not a typo. Not in thousands. That number can't possibly be right! The t-shirts for the Gold game alone would have cost more than that.

5. Look at the guarantees (both incoming and outgoing) for both W&M and JMU, especially for basketball. JMU is able to get those out-of-conference paydays for men's basketball. Apparently it does wonders for the budget.

6. Look at the ticket sales for JMU's women's basketball and then compare it to ours. Goes to show you what a successful (and thus popular) program can do for your school. I applaud Coach Swanson; I believe he is on the way to getting us there!

7. Lastly, I notice that JMU had one category of expenses that W&M does not have: severance payments. JMU will tell you that it is just the cost of doing business.

So, after reviewing these numbers, is all the gloom and doom talk about men's basketball needing a larger recruiting budget really true? The recruiting budget is larger than football's and it is larger than JMU's for football and basketball.
06-13-2017 11:04 AM
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