I think we all agree that these two things are true:

The ACC has a pretty tough GOR to break
ESPN is experiencing cash trouble and it seems impractical to have properties with overlapping geographic footprints

The value of a conference is determined by its strongest, most valuable members. I propose that in a consolidating effort that ESPN should push the SEC to take the ACCs biggest brands, diminishing the ACC to the point where it either disbands or has roughly the same tv value as the AAC.

Ideally I think grabbing 6 teams would be preferable: Florida St, Clemson, GT, UNC, UVA and VT

For Politcal reasons they might need to find a way to squeeze Duke in too, in which case maybe Miami or Louisville goes too.

These programs add a lot of depth and value to the SEC tv package:

Fla St-Florida (every year, not just every other)
Clemson-So Carolina (same deal)
GT-UGA (same)
Clemson-Auburn
Fla St-Alabama
Fla St-Clemson
GT-Clemson
GT-Fla St
GT-VT
VT-UVA
UVA-UNC
UNC-So Carolina
VT-Tenn
Fla St-VT

To try to get around the GOR I'd be making phone calls to Big Ten country to try to get Delany to extend offers to 2-4 schools like Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC so that everyone moves penalty free.

(05-27-2017 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think we all agree that these two things are true:

The ACC has a pretty tough GOR to break
ESPN is experiencing cash trouble and it seems impractical to have properties with overlapping geographic footprints

The value of a conference is determined by its strongest, most valuable members. I propose that in a consolidating effort that ESPN should push the SEC to take the ACCs biggest brands, diminishing the ACC to the point where it either disbands or has roughly the same tv value as the AAC.

Ideally I think grabbing 6 teams would be preferable: Florida St, Clemson, GT, UNC, UVA and VT

For Politcal reasons they might need to find a way to squeeze Duke in too, in which case maybe Miami or Louisville goes too.

These programs add a lot of depth and value to the SEC tv package:

Fla St-Florida (every year, not just every other)
Clemson-So Carolina (same deal)
GT-UGA (same)
Clemson-Auburn
Fla St-Alabama
Fla St-Clemson
GT-Clemson
GT-Fla St
GT-VT
VT-UVA
UVA-UNC
UNC-So Carolina
VT-Tenn
Fla St-VT

To try to get around the GOR I'd be making phone calls to Big Ten country to try to get Delany to extend offers to 2-4 schools like Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC so that everyone moves penalty free.

As an SEC guy I certainly find that notion more attractive than some other expansion options. Duke would have to be included. In fact it might be argued that 10 from the ACC to take the SEC to 24 (4 divisions of 6 might work for the footprint. Add Miami, N.C. State, Louisville, and Duke and you have it. It's all the Southeastern and Mid Atlantic schools.

The only problem with this is that ESPN would have to pay almost 40% more for the same 10 products if they sport an SEC logo. And ESPN would have to give up Notre Dame. So while that would be a wonderful way to get the old Southern Conference back together plus a few, I don't think it will happen unless on down the line external economic factors force both ESPN and the conferences to consider ways to sell the product to more concise geographical groupings. In that case a merger and the redrawing of divisions makes a great deal of sense and eliminates the expense of duplicated conference offices.

JR--the 10 team scenario you described is the same group I'd recommend if they had to take the full 10.

Part of the problem with the ACC as it's currently set up is that you have a lot of annual divisional match ups that don't make a lot of sense and frankly don't have any tv appeal. Cut out the northern schools and some of the weak links and some of those more appealing match ups that are currently rare due to the divisional structure become more frequent, if not annual affairs. Yes, ESPN would be paying more for the same schools but the match ups are better and you also end up with some savings because you're no longer paying Florida St money for Wake Forest games.

You mention that the loss of Notre Dame might stymie the deal for ESPN but the consolidation of the best Southern ACC schools into the SEC would likely drive Notre Dame out as well--playing 5 football games a year against Wake, Duke, NC St, Miami, BC, Pitt, Syracuse, L'ville, and their AAC replacements (with the possibility of a few of those being gone as well) isn't the same league they joined and it might be enough to send them to the Big Ten, which ESPN shares the rights to with FOX.

JR is right. Why would ESPN sanction combining two of its own properties? It doesn't make good financial sense to pay more for less inventory. The reality is any advantage that would come from combining the conference can be realized now by simply having the conferences schedule each other more.

The truth is The SEC and The ACC, along with Notre Dame, could combine schedules during football, basketball and baseball seasons and garner much of the national interest in all three. I believe that's ESPN's plan.
CJ

what about conf network money, that getting chopped
the only schools bringing in conf network money are Va & NC
SEC will only expand by 2, ironicly, same 2 B-10 want
half ur list is already being played as OOC

Why would ACC teams leave for the SEC at this point? It doesn't make much sense to me.

I would see a full-on merger between the two as "Conference ESPN" (SEC + ACC) would be part of a duopoly with "Conference Fox" (B1G + PAC). In a true breakaway scenario each side probably needs to go to 36 to guarantee the entire P5 a seat at the table. C-ESPN probably taps BYU and Colorado State to keep from completely abandoning the western United States.

C-Fox would have some more work to do in the eastern and southern United States, but they probably pick up schools like UConn, USF, UCF, East Carolina, and Memphis.

(05-27-2017 06:57 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  what about conf network money, that getting chopped
the only schools bringing in conf network money are Va & NC
SEC will only expand by 2, ironicly, same 2 B-10 want
half ur list is already being played as OOC

It's not about conference money. Under the old model the Big Ten wanted UVa and UNC for television sets. With customers cutting cable, it's not about number of TV sets anymore, it's about who controls content. ESPN could theoretically control every broadcast of the Nation's most popular college football conference and every broadcast of the Nation's most popular college basketball conference by simply orchestrating inter-conference games between both leagues. It doesn't matter how the content is delivered to the consumer if you control all the content.
CJ

(05-27-2017 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think we all agree that these two things are true:

The ACC has a pretty tough GOR to break
ESPN is experiencing cash trouble and it seems impractical to have properties with overlapping geographic footprints

The value of a conference is determined by its strongest, most valuable members. I propose that in a consolidating effort that ESPN should push the SEC to take the ACCs biggest brands, diminishing the ACC to the point where it either disbands or has roughly the same tv value as the AAC.

Ideally I think grabbing 6 teams would be preferable: Florida St, Clemson, GT, UNC, UVA and VT

For Politcal reasons they might need to find a way to squeeze Duke in too, in which case maybe Miami or Louisville goes too.

These programs add a lot of depth and value to the SEC tv package:

Fla St-Florida (every year, not just every other)
Clemson-So Carolina (same deal)
GT-UGA (same)
Clemson-Auburn
Fla St-Alabama
Fla St-Clemson
GT-Clemson
GT-Fla St
GT-VT
VT-UVA
UVA-UNC
UNC-So Carolina
VT-Tenn
Fla St-VT

To try to get around the GOR I'd be making phone calls to Big Ten country to try to get Delany to extend offers to 2-4 schools like Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC so that everyone moves penalty free.

(05-27-2017 07:04 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I would see a full-on merger between the two as "Conference ESPN" (SEC + ACC) would be part of a duopoly with "Conference Fox" (B1G + PAC). In a true breakaway scenario each side probably needs to go to 36 to guarantee the entire P5 a seat at the table. C-ESPN probably taps BYU and Colorado State to keep from completely abandoning the western United States.

C-Fox would have some more work to do in the eastern and southern United States, but they probably pick up schools like UConn, USF, UCF, East Carolina, and Memphis.

That's the future. The P4 carve up The Big 12, fill in the gaps with G5 like Cincinnati and UCONN, close the door and call it a day.
CJ

(05-27-2017 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think we all agree that these two things are true:

The ACC has a pretty tough GOR to break
ESPN is experiencing cash trouble and it seems impractical to have properties with overlapping geographic footprints

The value of a conference is determined by its strongest, most valuable members. I propose that in a consolidating effort that ESPN should push the SEC to take the ACCs biggest brands, diminishing the ACC to the point where it either disbands or has roughly the same tv value as the AAC.

Ideally I think grabbing 6 teams would be preferable: Florida St, Clemson, GT, UNC, UVA and VT

For Politcal reasons they might need to find a way to squeeze Duke in too, in which case maybe Miami or Louisville goes too.

These programs add a lot of depth and value to the SEC tv package:

Fla St-Florida (every year, not just every other)
Clemson-So Carolina (same deal)
GT-UGA (same)
Clemson-Auburn
Fla St-Alabama
Fla St-Clemson
GT-Clemson
GT-Fla St
GT-VT
VT-UVA
UVA-UNC
UNC-So Carolina
VT-Tenn
Fla St-VT

To try to get around the GOR I'd be making phone calls to Big Ten country to try to get Delany to extend offers to 2-4 schools like Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC so that everyone moves penalty free.

Of course if hypothetically the addition of the 10 Southern ACC schools to the SEC then the Big 10 could do some adding too. Pitt, Boston College, Syracuse, and Notre Dame to the East. Iowa State and Kansas to get to 20.

The PAC could add Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and U.N.L.V. Kansas State and Hawaii to get to 20.

Then the three legged stool would be more balanced than the current four legged one with unequally sized legs.

If the big 10 land ou, ku, and Texas than espn and the sec should shift 10 acc schools into the sec since super conference would be on their way. I like 3 pods of 8 with a east, central, west. Who gets left out of the move ? I would let nd, bc, Pitt, cuse and Miami remain in the acc. The new acc could add uconn, temple, Cincy, wvu, Tcu, USF and x to get to 12 than add byu as a football only. Thus, espn could still carve out an nd conference.

SEC should ditch missouri and add clemson, fsu, gatech.
The other schools water down the league

(05-27-2017 10:45 PM)shere khan Wrote:  SEC should ditch missouri and add clemson, fsu, gatech.
The other schools water down the league

As long as ESPN refuses to pay us for Clemson and Florida State it simply can't be done. But then the networks don't have anything to do with realignment do they?

I would love it if you could. It might bring back Northeast football, but NOOO. It's done. Northeast football is dead.

The SEC, if anything, would make a play for NC and VA. I could see them making a move to lure off VT and NCSU in that regard. But in the case of NCSU, I think their blue blood ACC stature could prove a tough sell.... but then again, the FU to UNC might be worth it.

The future is The Big Ten and PAC controlling the North and West while The SEC and ACC control the South and East. The Big 12 will be divided up geographically between those four conferences.

Four leagues with four playoff spots guaranteed.

Much of this won't happen until we get closer to The Big 12 GOR expiring. As the expiration gets closer you'll begin to hear Texas and Oklahoma making plans to leave leading Kansas and West Virginia to do the same. I'm not sure how it will break but I would expect something like this:

Oklahoma to SEC
Texas to ACC
Kansas to The Big Ten
TCU to PAC
WVU to SEC
Oklahoma State to ACC
Iowa State to Big Ten
Texas Tech to PAC
Baylor to SEC
Kansas State to ACC

Every present Big 12 program will find a home in one of the other P4 conferences.
I doubt we see much movement after that unless it's the P4 page picking up programs like Cincinnati and Connecticut to fill in the gaps.
CJ

(05-27-2017 10:45 PM)shere khan Wrote:  SEC should ditch missouri and add clemson, fsu, gatech.
The other schools water down the league

How are you going to force them to join? Drug 'em or hit them over the head with a club and drag them into the SEC cave?
There is no indication that GT wants to return to that cesspool, or that Clemson or Florida State want to jump in it.

Competition between the two conferences is best for all even if it's value isn't tangible. Having one dominant conference in the Southeast would ultimately lead to a lackadaisical conference.
Also with the network in play the SEC would only be looking at new markets. They would rather have Syracuse basketball demanding NY subscribers than another team in it's current market.

This all seems to be looking at what ESPN or Fox might want, not what any of the schools want. If the P5 were to get together and negotiate a single media contract, they would have a lot more leverage. ESPN and Fox, to a degree, count on the conferences to remain fragmented (which is why they helped the Big 12 to survive).

My guess is that the media companies could live with the status quo and be happy.