While the bench will be thin, the talent on the 2017-2018 team stacks up well with most W&M men's hoops teams over the past 50 years.

You've been spoiled by the last four years.

Now you know why I banged that drum so hard for post-season play for the past four years. The future is guaranteed to no man...and to no program.

If the chemistry problems from 2016-2017 have been solved, I'm looking forward to the 2017-2018 edition.



Exactly! The future is still bright. We still have young talent. This years team will be more balanced. I'm excited still.

Next year's team as of today. We desperately need this Rimmer guy from Florida as well as few more fresh or transfer. Last year we had 14 guys on the roster, so 3 spots are still open.

G Millon, Cohn, Burchfield, Tot, Glover, Mostafa, Loewe
F Pierce, Rowley, Knight, Williams

(05-25-2017 05:16 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Same situation as Whitman. Younger talent overtook him on the depth chart. It could also indicate that Tot may move to another position with Lowe coming in. I'd have no problem having Oliver playing 1, 2, or 3 in the rotation. You would have a tougher, and more defensive minded line up. We have zero depth now, and as much as I agree that Greg didn't overwhelm, he could light up the scoreboard when he was hot.

If this departure gives Tot more of a shot; it will be a net/net. Any loss will be balanced out. Tot's future is in Europe and this may be the long overdue springboard. WRT all this talk about chemistry. The lack of chemistry is usually related to who gets the scoring opportunities. Who has the ball? Defensive inequities can contribute to poor chemistry but, since we don't really defend, that's unlikely. Who has the ball is controlled by the scheme and the point guard. Look there for any source of team chemistry problems.

(05-25-2017 08:45 AM)nj alum Wrote:  While the bench will be thin, the talent on the 2017-2018 team stacks up well with most W&M men's hoops teams over the past 50 years.

True but also poignant. That's precisely why we've been begging the admin to make program improvements during the "good" times. A return to baseline is inevitable if the underlying ingredients aren't changed. (The football program has been masterful at making these kinds of changes.)

As to Greg, I'm shocked. We had the pleasant experience of sitting with him and his parents at the basketball dinner. He told us he was really looking forward to playing with Nate next year. I wish him well, but I definitely see the transfers out as a signal that something might be amiss.

Seacat, Whitman, Malinowski.
This points to some problems such as lack of leadership, team chemistry, team environment, etc.

(05-25-2017 10:11 AM)tribeintexas Wrote:  Seacat, Whitman, Malinowski.
This points to some problems such as lack of leadership, team chemistry, team environment, etc.

Seacat got a DUI and was suspended from the team (Then decided to transfer), I can't hold that against the program

After thinking about this for a while I have come to the conclusion it's more about the current college basketball system that has brought about players like Whitman and Malinowski transferring than having anything to do with their coaching staff, teammates, universities, etc.

We now see many dozens of players transferring either, like Whitman, graduate school players or, like Malinowski, players with undergraduate years remaining. This used to be a big deal but now you routinely read about it every day.

What is happening (with increasing frequency) is that the Power Five Conference teams along with a handful of non-Power Five powerhouses have realized they can overcome the loss of experienced players and their "one and dones" who turn pro by simply using the lesser conferences as their own farm system.

So if a team like Kansas, in Whitman's case, finds itself in a particular year with no experienced big man to expand their bench to back up a touted freshman whiz, they go out a lure away a guy like Whitman for a year to provide that experienced backup.

The fact that the Power Five schools all offer the COA money sweetens the pot for the one-year
experienced bench strength.

They are willing to go so far, as with Malinowski, to pay for a two-year scholarship to get an experienced player like him for one year's eligible play since he has to sit out next season.

At some point the NCAA would appear to have to step in to make this less easy, but I, frankly, don't believe the NCAA will do this. They are too tied into the Big Five revenue stream from tv.

Rather than criticize Tony and his staff I take the opposite view....it's a small miracle he kept players like Thornton, Dixon. Tarpey and others here for the full four seasons and graduating without losing any of those guys.

Any of those mentioned could have named their school if they opted to transfer with eligibility remaining and likely started for the Power Five team to boot!

It is a sad, sad situation that has now afflicted our thriving basketball program.

Still no other media source regarding Greg transferring other than the Verbal Commits post which is unusual, since they are not normally a first source, much less an only one.

Would be unusual to make that kind of decision this late, after semester is over and final exam grades are in, unless academic or major related. Most schools would be reluctant to take a sit one year/play one year transfer, unless they were a high profile/high productive player. Giving up a W&M degree with only one year to go, as well as, sitting out a year to play only one more year is a big sacrifice, unless you were academically ineligible, pursuing a major not available, or were going to get no playing time, for which the latter is not the case. If the transfer is true, I would hesitate to put any cause on the program.

Think any of these transfers should be treated as unique and individual events, and not due to a common cause.

If Rimmer becomes reality, we will have a solid 8-9 man rotation, which is ideal, and we will have a very talented and versatile team.

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Malinowski confirmed transferring from an athletic department source.

(05-25-2017 10:35 AM)BigTribe3 Wrote:  Malinowski confirmed transferring from an athletic department source.

Best wishes then. We will be just fine.

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This is a good assessment. With so many players leaving top 10 basketball school after a year or two, they might be looking to attract role players from mid-major schools. I don't think this is right, but I doubt NCAA will do anything about it.

(05-25-2017 10:24 AM)BigTribe3 Wrote:  After thinking about this for a while I have come to the conclusion it's more about the current college basketball system that has brought about players like Whitman and Malinowski transferring than having anything to do with their coaching staff, teammates, universities, etc.

We now see many dozens of players transferring either, like Whitman, graduate school players or, like Malinowski, players with undergraduate years remaining. This used to be a big deal but now you routinely read about it every day.

What is happening (with increasing frequency) is that the Power Five Conference teams along with a handful of non-Power Five powerhouses have realized they can overcome the loss of experienced players and their "one and dones" who turn pro by simply using the lesser conferences as their own farm system.

So if a team like Kansas, in Whitman's case, finds itself in a particular year with no experienced big man to expand their bench to back up a touted freshman whiz, they go out a lure away a guy like Whitman for a year to provide that experienced backup.

The fact that the Power Five schools all offer the COA money sweetens the pot for the one-year
experienced bench strength.

They are willing to go so far, as with Malinowski, to pay for a two-year scholarship to get an experienced player like him for one year's eligible play since he has to sit out next season.

At some point the NCAA would appear to have to step in to make this less easy, but I, frankly, don't believe the NCAA will do this. They are too tied into the Big Five revenue stream from tv.

Rather than criticize Tony and his staff I take the opposite view....it's a small miracle he kept players like Thornton, Dixon. Tarpey and others here for the full four seasons and graduating without losing any of those guys.

Any of those mentioned could have named their school if they opted to transfer with eligibility remaining and likely started for the Power Five team to boot!

It is a sad, sad situation that has now afflicted our thriving basketball program.

(05-25-2017 10:11 AM)tribeintexas Wrote:  Seacat, Whitman, Malinowski.
This points to some problems such as lack of leadership, team chemistry, team environment, etc.

I'd say it's more regression to the mean than anything else. W&M hasn't really had anyone transfer out for a while. No program is that lucky or good at keeping everyone happy.

Best Wishes to Greg, wherever he may land.

I really thought that Greg and Whitman were poised for big senior years. It would appear that they were "called up" by bigger programs who may have thought so as well.

I hope that the staff was able to conduct exit interviews to pinpoint the reason for their departures and react in such a way so as to minimize these type of occurrences going forward.

I would to have loved to see the team next year with the 3 transfers, the remaining players and our recruits. I thought that combination would have had a lot of upside.

I am looking forward to the season with the players that are remaining. Hopefully the summer trip will start to develop needed chemistry and team work and we'll see a phoenix rise from the ashes in the 2017-18 season. Their is still plenty of talent left. Coached up and pulling together toward a common goal the personnel we have is capable of more than we can imagine if we only focus on the loss.

Coach Shaver is a good man. I really hope we can go to Big Dance before he retires.

Oh well...we had the top player out of Maryland give us 4 record-breaking years, recruited top shelf guys around him, missed the Dance because of a few missed free throws, and we didn't take advantage of the gifts.

The admins just sat back and smiled at that run of success with their hands interlocked behind their heads like they created something majestic. Didn't do a ******* thing to run with it, didn't invest, didn't do anything other than sit back and praise a few boosters for all their hard work.

I love Tony. It ain't him. He deserves a 10 year contract extension if he can make anything out of this steaming heap.

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(05-25-2017 01:58 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Oh well...we had the top player out of Maryland give us 4 record-breaking years, recruited top shelf guys around him, missed the Dance because of a few missed free throws, and we didn't take advantage of the gifts.

The admins just sat back and smiled at that run of success with their hands interlocked behind their heads like they created something majestic. Didn't do a ******* thing to run with it, didn't invest, didn't do anything other than sit back and praise a few boosters for all their hard work.

I love Tony. It ain't him. He deserves a 10 year contract extension if he can make anything out of this steaming heap.

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I was noticing in Verbal Commits, that they had Greg as "ERS" which is redshirted. I am pretty sure that he had not redshirtedm si I am wondering if this may have had something to do with is transferring?? Any one have any ideas on this??

(05-25-2017 03:53 PM)Biggjohn43 Wrote:  

(05-25-2017 01:58 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Oh well...we had the top player out of Maryland give us 4 record-breaking years, recruited top shelf guys around him, missed the Dance because of a few missed free throws, and we didn't take advantage of the gifts.

The admins just sat back and smiled at that run of success with their hands interlocked behind their heads like they created something majestic. Didn't do a ******* thing to run with it, didn't invest, didn't do anything other than sit back and praise a few boosters for all their hard work.

I love Tony. It ain't him. He deserves a 10 year contract extension if he can make anything out of this steaming heap.

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I was noticing in Verbal Commits, that they had Greg as "ERS" which is redshirted. I am pretty sure that he had not redshirtedm si I am wondering if this may have had something to do with is transferring?? Any one have any ideas on this??

He is expected to redshirt because he'll have to sit out a year to transfer, I assume.

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I cannot fathom working through 3 years at a tough academic institution like W&M, getting ready for your senior season as a captain and starter, and choosing to walk away from it all. Greg will not get a W&M degree. He will not be a team captain wherever he transfers to. Unless he transfers to a smaller school, he won't start, either. Such a strange decision. I hope we find out more about his rationale soon...

First off, why are people assuming Greg is leaving for a "higher program"? He does not have the numbers or the immediate eligibility that Jack had to entice those bigger schools. I would be SHOCKED if he ended up at a school that is better than our level, because he's been an average contributor at our level. This has more to do with a potential change in role. Also, why are we assuming he was a captain? Players vote and the only no brainer would be cohn. Greg is not a vocal leader, it wouldn't surprise me if he was not voted a captain, and someone more vocal like Paul was voted over him.

Well, some nut responded to WMSB's tweet claiming Greg has a shot at an ACC school and pro ball. Some people must live in Rainbowland.

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