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I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.

I guess it's not an endowment like the one at most schools. I thought of endowment money being donated, not money taken from tuition.
05-18-2017 08:08 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 08:08 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.

I guess it's not an endowment like the one at most schools. I thought of endowment money being donated, not money taken from tuition.

Typically it is. I doubt any school these days has a surplus where they can say "hey, let's put this money back into the endowmnet". Liberty had a windfall from online education, they've been pouring money from it back into their campus and the campus life and it seems the endowment so that they can assure operating funds in the future if the online money dries up. Seems like a solid business plan.
05-18-2017 08:22 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #43
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
I wonder how many Rolexes the Right Honorable Rev. Falwell owns?
05-18-2017 08:29 AM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #44
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.


they are having it earn something, but if they are using it to pay for projects and need it to be liquid and or they need to make sure the money is there to pay for the project then it greatly limits the investments and the returns on those investments they can make

they would have it in Tbills paying next to nothing and in high quality bonds that pay next to nothing because there is little to no risk and because the value of the bond is unlikely to fall like a stock would or if it does fall it will not fall as far as fast and you can always hold the bond and gain the interest payments until the bonds go up in value and you sell

and as long as the bonds are yielding at or near your borrowing cost you are OK

the last thing you want is to have $900 million in Apple, Exxon, and whoever else's stock and watch them go down 10% in value or 20% in value just when you need to sell to pay off a project or to start a new project you have planned

so you are limited to investments that have little chance of falling in value or that at least pay a dividend at or near your borrowing cost so you can hold those investments until a better time to sell if you need to sell

this as opposed to a true endowment that you have set up to only spend from 4% to 5% of a 3 to 5 year rolling average of the corpus of the endowment and those expenses paid from that have some flexibility built in

then you can make longer term investments in a much broader portfolios of investments from stable longer term, to real estate to possibly some higher risk or shorter term investments trying to catch an upswing or a down swing and do some hedging with gold or silver or similar

then with the low pull of 4% to 5% and the 3 to 5 year rolling average of the corpus as a basis of that 4% to 5% spend you are protected from market ups and downs

you simply cannot invest the same if you are going to pull $90 million out of $900 million this year to build a new building or start up a new set of degree programs because if you take a 10% hit in investments and then still pull out the $90 million for the project you are down from $900 million to $720 million

you invest to protect the $900 million and then pull out to spend and you are at $810 million plus say 1% or 2% that you earned off of those very low risk investments you were holding your liquidity in

there is not a chance in hell you are going to get 4% from a bank when they can't even make loans at 4% right now to most home owners

that is why places like Japan and others have actually gone to negative interest rates in the recent past because the cost of taking in money and holding it in very very low risk investments in a slow growing or even a deflating economy and servicing the account means no profit or even an expense for the bank

because again the bank simply cannot take risk like even a very safe average long term investor can because of liquidity needs and because there is no "hey sorry your bank balance went down 8% bad stock market and all you know"....and even more so in tougher economic times is when people come for their cash
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2017 08:33 AM by TodgeRodge.)
05-18-2017 08:30 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #45
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 09:07 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Liberty will be the Protestant version of Notre Dame in a very short time. Write it down. 07-coffee3

I will guarantee that will not happen
05-18-2017 08:51 AM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #46
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.
05-18-2017 11:00 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #47
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
I'm sure some of the lawyers on this forum could answer this with more precision. But, IIRC, non-profit institutions can't continue to accumulate large sums of cash (that is, "profits")without a defensible plan for how they are going to spend them for the purposes that make them tax-exempt in the first place.

While they still had an ambitious building plan they were funding, accumulating cash was perfectly defensible from a tax standpoint. A legitimate use for the excess cash left over after completion of the capital campaign is to place it in an endowment designed to provide a source of ongoing cash flow through its earnings to continue to fund those tax-exempt activities into the future as a hedge against losses of other revenue sources.

The endowment itself is subject to approval by the IRS as tax exempt (prior to receiving any deductible donations), based on the endowment's by-laws governing how it is spent.

The only thing remarkable about any of Liberty's actions and financial decisions is the unprecedented success of its online program.
05-18-2017 12:44 PM
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Post: #48
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

I challenge you to drive through a city that is mostly African American and try to count the number of churches you find. Liberty will no no issue at all recruiting due to them being Christian affiliated.......

They literally have nothing holding them back from being a potential ND in a few years once they start winning. That's the unsaid fair that so many people have.
05-18-2017 01:17 PM
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Post: #49
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
Liberty was ahead of the curve in two areas I know of. They started perfecting distance learning at their Theological Seminary in the late 70's, early 80's using VHS tapes, before the internet boom. They also identified a void in adult education. Example, a friend of mine (40ish) with an associate's in Criminal Justice, while working as a parole offers was able to finish his BA online. His wife, a public school teacher was able to get her Master's the same way. The promotion she received afterwards will cover the cost in two years. Neither one of them could have attended campus class do to scheduling. He was a military veteran and LU gives a nice discount to vets and active duty. A lot of enlisted Christian service men and women are taking advantage of that. Which might have something to do with us getting a 4-5 year football deal with Army. Liberty has an Army ROTC and has a deal work out with Air Force I believe.
05-18-2017 01:31 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

Baylor doesn't make them sign a "BYU honor code contract" where they can't drink alcohol or have premarital sex like Liberty requires. Baylor doesn't prohibit alcohol at tail gates. Bad comparison my friend.
05-18-2017 02:03 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 01:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

I challenge you to drive through a city that is mostly African American and try to count the number of churches you find. Liberty will no no issue at all recruiting due to them being Christian affiliated.......

They literally have nothing holding them back from being a potential ND in a few years once they start winning. That's the unsaid fair that so many people have.

Notre Dame doesn't make them sign a contract saying they won't have pre marital sex and won't drink alcohol. STRICTLY ENFORCED contracts too. A family member of mine played sports at BYU. I'm not making this up. It was unbelievable....
Bad bad comparisons....
05-18-2017 02:06 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #52
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.

Endowment implies the money was donated and for a specific purpose. I guess Liberty could put their own money in the endowment but once it is in there I don't think they can use it for another purpose. If the endowment is just a general fund that they can use for what ever they want, it is not really an endowment to begin with.

Personally, I would ask for my money back if I found out they were using money I donated for a specific purpose for something other than that purpose.
05-18-2017 02:33 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 02:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.

Endowment implies the money was donated and for a specific purpose. I guess Liberty could put their own money in the endowment but once it is in there I don't think they can use it for another purpose. If the endowment is just a general fund that they can use for what ever they want, it is not really an endowment to begin with.

Personally, I would ask for my money back if I found out they were using money I donated for a specific purpose for something other than that purpose.

Typically I would agree but I don't think LU's money came from donors. The point of putting it in an endowment is that the principal won't be spent just the earnings. A lot of time a donor restricts the use of the earnings but it seems in LU's case it's not.

This article is older but seems to answer a lot of questions that have been raised in this thread.

http://www.richmond.com/news/article_a65...6dd8d.html

"As of June, Liberty officials said the school had about $860 million in net assets and expects that number to exceed $1 billion by year's end — a major milestone for the university.

"We've grown so fast that we can't spend it fast enough," LU Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. said.

Since Liberty is a nonprofit, any surplus it generates must be invested back into the school. However, Falwell said there is no strict timeline about when Liberty must use the money; part of Liberty's strategy is to build an endowment that will secure the long-term stability of the school."

And

"Until recently, Liberty's assets were mostly sitting in cash reserves.

Over the past year, Liberty has worked with an assets management firm in New York City, Permanens Capital, to lay the groundwork for converting those cash reserves into low-risk investments. Permanens chief investment officer John Regan said that because Liberty is a young school, the administration is not bound to a "legacy way of doing things.""
05-18-2017 02:44 PM
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Post: #54
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 02:06 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 01:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

I challenge you to drive through a city that is mostly African American and try to count the number of churches you find. Liberty will no no issue at all recruiting due to them being Christian affiliated.......

They literally have nothing holding them back from being a potential ND in a few years once they start winning. That's the unsaid fair that so many people have.

Notre Dame doesn't make them sign a contract saying they won't have pre marital sex and won't drink alcohol. STRICTLY ENFORCED contracts too. A family member of mine played sports at BYU. I'm not making this up. It was unbelievable....
Bad bad comparisons....

Maybe I don't see that as a big deal because I'm a Christian.....but it's not a big deal.....Drinking Alcohol is so overrated and college students only do it because other idiots think it's cool. And pre-marital relations are not something you should do anyway...
05-18-2017 03:16 PM
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Post: #55
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 02:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Endowment implies the money was donated and for a specific purpose. I guess could put their own money in the endowment but once it is in there I don't think they can use it for another purpose. If the endowment is just a general fund that they can use for what ever they want, it is not really an endowment to begin with.

Personally, I would ask for my money back if I found out they were using money I donated for a specific purpose for something other than that purpose.

I think there's still a lot of donor money setting on the sideline.

I'M waiting to see who names the LU baseball field and the new basketball arena. I believe money for expanding the football stadium (Art Williams Stadium) is pledged. A long range plan that floated around was for up to 60,000 seats. We only need about 30,000 anytime soon. From what I'm hearing they are aiming for fan comfort and amenities over stadium size.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2017 07:21 PM by Liberty Fan.)
05-18-2017 03:16 PM
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Post: #56
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 03:16 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 02:06 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 01:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

I challenge you to drive through a city that is mostly African American and try to count the number of churches you find. Liberty will no no issue at all recruiting due to them being Christian affiliated.......

They literally have nothing holding them back from being a potential ND in a few years once they start winning. That's the unsaid fair that so many people have.

Notre Dame doesn't make them sign a contract saying they won't have pre marital sex and won't drink alcohol. STRICTLY ENFORCED contracts too. A family member of mine played sports at BYU. I'm not making this up. It was unbelievable....
Bad bad comparisons....

Maybe I don't see that as a big deal because I'm a Christian.....but it's not a big deal.....Drinking Alcohol is so overrated and college students only do it because other idiots think it's cool. And pre-marital relations are not something you should do anyway...

[Image: giphy-downsized-large_zpsi3ubujzo.gif]
05-18-2017 03:25 PM
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Post: #57
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 02:06 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 01:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

I challenge you to drive through a city that is mostly African American and try to count the number of churches you find. Liberty will no no issue at all recruiting due to them being Christian affiliated.......

They literally have nothing holding them back from being a potential ND in a few years once they start winning. That's the unsaid fair that so many people have.

Notre Dame doesn't make them sign a contract saying they won't have pre marital sex and won't drink alcohol. STRICTLY ENFORCED contracts too. A family member of mine played sports at BYU. I'm not making this up. It was unbelievable....
Bad bad comparisons....

Really, and the mods locked a thread when I stated I didn't agee with or care with another poster about their comment that Taxpayers are paying for Liberty Football? 01-wingedeagle
05-18-2017 03:31 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 03:16 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 02:06 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 01:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

I challenge you to drive through a city that is mostly African American and try to count the number of churches you find. Liberty will no no issue at all recruiting due to them being Christian affiliated.......

They literally have nothing holding them back from being a potential ND in a few years once they start winning. That's the unsaid fair that so many people have.

Notre Dame doesn't make them sign a contract saying they won't have pre marital sex and won't drink alcohol. STRICTLY ENFORCED contracts too. A family member of mine played sports at BYU. I'm not making this up. It was unbelievable....
Bad bad comparisons....

Maybe I don't see that as a big deal because I'm a Christian.....but it's not a big deal.....Drinking Alcohol is so overrated and college students only do it because other idiots think it's cool. And pre-marital relations are not something you should do anyway...

Wait...what?
05-18-2017 05:05 PM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #59
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 02:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.

Endowment implies the money was donated and for a specific purpose. I guess Liberty could put their own money in the endowment but once it is in there I don't think they can use it for another purpose. If the endowment is just a general fund that they can use for what ever they want, it is not really an endowment to begin with.

Personally, I would ask for my money back if I found out they were using money I donated for a specific purpose for something other than that purpose.


just because money is in an endowment that does not mean there are any federal or state restrictions on that money because it is in an "endowment"

donors can place restrictions such as the department, professorship, scholarships ect that the proceeds are used for or the amount of proceeds paid out from their donation, but even then in the fine print of most of the paperwork it will make clear that at some point and time in the future of the BOR or Trustees vote on it the money can be shifted and used for some other purpose

if you had an endowment for the engineering of carriages and the proper care for the horses that pull them well that program is long gone

if you had a dairy science program with an endowment or a nuclear engineering program and you get rid of that program because of cost, declining demand or lack of job prospects the money going to support that will go elsewhere

and a university could spend everything in the endowment in a single year if they wanted to and the BOR or Trustees approved it provided there are no restrictions on the payouts made by the donors

even then if there is an emergency or some other issue that demands that type of drastic action it could happen.......that would be like the women
's university that was in NC (or wherever it was) and they were shutting down the school because it was simply not viable

they were going to shut it down and spend the endowment to nothing or as much as needed to graduate the last classes then they were going to do something else with whatever was left over (I think they were going to endow scholarships for female students from the area to other schools)

that university I believe ended up staying open though so they did not start spending the corpus

but because something is termed a "endowment" that does not place many (if any) federal or state restrictions on that money
05-18-2017 05:15 PM
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RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 01:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 11:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 06:38 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
It hasn't really affected recruiting that type of athlete at that Baptist school in Waco.

I challenge you to drive through a city that is mostly African American and try to count the number of churches you find. Liberty will no no issue at all recruiting due to them being Christian affiliated.......

They literally have nothing holding them back from being a potential ND in a few years once they start winning. That's the unsaid fair that so many people have.


Notre Dame is Catholic - and Catholics are pretty much the same everywhere. Throw in the Irish/Immigrant connection, and you had millions of supporters throughout the Midwest. Protestants are not the same. Each denomination is different. Southern Baptists (like Liberty) only consider those born-again to be truly saved. While it is the largest single Protestant denomination, it is not the size of the Catholic Church. In addition, Baptists are very locally oriented, as opposed to a Top Down hieraracy of the Catholic Church.

Liberty may have success, but that success won't suddenly make Baptists in Texas, California, Illinois or Arizona Liberty fans
05-18-2017 05:23 PM
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