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I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 11:29 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:12 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:00 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  LU is a RNP National school. Which means we do have a number rank but US News just sets a arbitrary number they stop at to keep things more manageable. LU is just outside where the numbers stop. So we are close to gaining a viable number rank.

How many schools received the RNP designation?

Edit; Looked it up. 310 schools listed as National. They listed the top 220. 12 schools were tied at 220, resulting in 231 schools receiving a listed ranking and 79 schools receiving an RNP.

So, it all depends where they ranked among those RNP schools. Liberty could be close to a ranking. Or they could have to pass a bunch of schools. Hard to say one way or the other.

220 number ranked schools LU is listed 21 slots after the 220th school as Rank Not Published. I didn't count the RNP's because it only loads a little bit at a time so scrolling to 220 and beyond is a pain.

The RNPs are in alphabetical order. Being listed 21st in the RNP grouping is all because of the name and nothing else.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2017 11:38 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
05-17-2017 11:36 AM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #22
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
arkstfan - I love your posts, brother. But there are quite a few errors in your facts about our Big South success. Andteeh folks at JMU are a bit puzzled by your postseason record for us. Don't even get me started about the random football tie-breakers that changed in Coastal's favor nearly every season.

And yes, that endowment number does not include cash on hand that we are using to finish of the $1B campus renovation we have been undergoing the past couple of years. At last check we had well over a billion dollars in cash. We know that the flow of online cash is not likely to last forever. But we are doing our best to remain flexible for opportunities that come our way.
05-17-2017 11:47 AM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 11:36 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:29 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:12 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:00 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  LU is a RNP National school. Which means we do have a number rank but US News just sets a arbitrary number they stop at to keep things more manageable. LU is just outside where the numbers stop. So we are close to gaining a viable number rank.

How many schools received the RNP designation?

Edit; Looked it up. 310 schools listed as National. They listed the top 220. 12 schools were tied at 220, resulting in 231 schools receiving a listed ranking and 79 schools receiving an RNP.

So, it all depends where they ranked among those RNP schools. Liberty could be close to a ranking. Or they could have to pass a bunch of schools. Hard to say one way or the other.

220 number ranked schools LU is listed 21 slots after the 220th school as Rank Not Published. I didn't count the RNP's because it only loads a little bit at a time so scrolling to 220 and beyond is a pain.

The RNPs are in alphabetical order. Being listed 21st in the RNP grouping is all because of the name and nothing else.

It appears you are correct about that. Either way my list of schools in the RNP part of the rankings still holds true.
05-17-2017 11:48 AM
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Post: #24
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."

Something fishy is going on with Liberty's endowment.

815 university systems report their endowment level to NACUBO (the National Association of College and University Business Officers). Liberty is not one of them, which is VERY strange.

According to IPEDS (which is self-reported data to the federal Department of Education), Liberty's endowment was 126,421,721 at the beginning of fiscal year 2014-15, and 1,054,285,564 at the end of the year.

That's a $927 million jump in one year (up 833%). Where did that come from in one year? It wasn't a gift: that would be headline news, and Google tells me that largest gift they received was $70 million in 1998.
05-17-2017 01:40 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #25
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 01:40 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."

Something fishy is going on with Liberty's endowment.

815 university systems report their endowment level to NACUBO (the National Association of College and University Business Officers). Liberty is not one of them, which is VERY strange.

According to IPEDS (which is self-reported data to the federal Department of Education), Liberty's endowment was 126,421,721 at the beginning of fiscal year 2014-15, and 1,054,285,564 at the end of the year.

That's a $927 million jump in one year (up 833%). Where did that come from in one year? It wasn't a gift: that would be headline news, and Google tells me that largest gift they received was $70 million in 1998.

That's a lot of online diplomas!
05-17-2017 01:43 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 01:40 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."

Something fishy is going on with Liberty's endowment.

815 university systems report their endowment level to NACUBO (the National Association of College and University Business Officers). Liberty is not one of them, which is VERY strange.

According to IPEDS (which is self-reported data to the federal Department of Education), Liberty's endowment was 126,421,721 at the beginning of fiscal year 2014-15, and 1,054,285,564 at the end of the year.

That's a $927 million jump in one year (up 833%). Where did that come from in one year? It wasn't a gift: that would be headline news, and Google tells me that largest gift they received was $70 million in 1998.

That's crazy! Ok, how do you transfer $927 million to your endowment in 1 year? Where was that $927 million before it was put in the endowment?
05-17-2017 01:44 PM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #27
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 11:47 AM)SlyFox Wrote:  arkstfan - I love your posts, brother. But there are quite a few errors in your facts about our Big South success. Andteeh folks at JMU are a bit puzzled by your postseason record for us. Don't even get me started about the random football tie-breakers that changed in Coastal's favor nearly every season.

Take it up with Wikipedia.
05-17-2017 02:00 PM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 01:44 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 01:40 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."

Something fishy is going on with Liberty's endowment.

815 university systems report their endowment level to NACUBO (the National Association of College and University Business Officers). Liberty is not one of them, which is VERY strange.

According to IPEDS (which is self-reported data to the federal Department of Education), Liberty's endowment was 126,421,721 at the beginning of fiscal year 2014-15, and 1,054,285,564 at the end of the year.

That's a $927 million jump in one year (up 833%). Where did that come from in one year? It wasn't a gift: that would be headline news, and Google tells me that largest gift they received was $70 million in 1998.

That's crazy! Ok, how do you transfer $927 million to your endowment in 1 year? Where was that $927 million before it was put in the endowment?

Ummm obviously we found the treasure from the treasure map.
05-17-2017 02:01 PM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #29
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 09:52 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 09:37 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 07:18 AM)MJG Wrote:  I read liberty has a billion in cash so plenty of money to buy games.
Schools can't use their endowment's for athletics only academics.

I doubt they get into an FBS conference but maybe they upgrade to a better olympic sports confdrence.

It's apparent that Liberty isn't using its endowment to bolster its academics. either. They're pretty dismal (unranked in USN&WP).

Unranked? Yeah, you need to learn how to read. LU was ranked 89th in the Regional South last year then this year moved up to the National rankings. But we are just outside the numbered ranks so we are RNP which means Rank Not Published. That means we are ranked. Which is completely different than unranked. We just need to move up the a some ranks and get to the numbered ones that people see.

Well, if you're happy with your alma mater's academic standing, go buy yourself an ice-cream cone and celebrate. I'm not happy with my alma mater's ranking, which is waaaay above Liberty's, but still not good enough. I want it to be much better, and I'd like to believe that it's heading in the right direction.

And for the record, in 2015 Forbes listed Liberty University as ranking 639 out of 650 rated colleges. Liberty's graduation rate of 48.2% also ranks near the bottom.
05-17-2017 02:15 PM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 02:15 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 09:52 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 09:37 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 07:18 AM)MJG Wrote:  I read liberty has a billion in cash so plenty of money to buy games.
Schools can't use their endowment's for athletics only academics.

I doubt they get into an FBS conference but maybe they upgrade to a better olympic sports confdrence.

It's apparent that Liberty isn't using its endowment to bolster its academics. either. They're pretty dismal (unranked in USN&WP).

Unranked? Yeah, you need to learn how to read. LU was ranked 89th in the Regional South last year then this year moved up to the National rankings. But we are just outside the numbered ranks so we are RNP which means Rank Not Published. That means we are ranked. Which is completely different than unranked. We just need to move up the a some ranks and get to the numbered ones that people see.

Well, if you're happy with your alma mater's academic standing, go buy yourself an ice-cream cone and celebrate. I'm not happy with my alma mater's ranking, which is waaaay above Liberty's, but still not good enough. I want it to be much better, and I'd like to believe that it's heading in the right direction.

And for the record, in 2015 Forbes listed Liberty University as ranking 639 out of 650 rated colleges. Liberty's graduation rate of 48.2% also ranks near the bottom.

I'm not happy with the rankings. But for a school that was founded in 1971 we are headed in the right direction at a good speed.
05-17-2017 02:21 PM
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Liberty Fan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
Pretty fair and balanced article on Liberty. Endowment should be 3b by 2022.

http://baconsrebellion.com/liberty-university-rise/
05-17-2017 02:25 PM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 02:25 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  Pretty fair and balanced article on Liberty. Endowment should be 3b by 2022.

http://baconsrebellion.com/liberty-university-rise/

$150M in 2007 to $3B in 2022? Fifteen years? That type of growth screams trouble. My guess is Liberty crashes and burns within the next decade.
05-17-2017 03:32 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #33
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
Online ed has been that lucrative but the market is clearly correcting. We started in that arena back in the Mid '80s while I was in school and we were recording profs on VHS tapes. The technology of the past decade combined with our well-established experience in the space (and some outstanding marketing) put us in the right place at the right time. Now everyone is making a run at the obvious windfall from online ed including some of the top academic schools in the nation. We continue to ride the wave but know it won't last forever.

Part of the big jump was us choosing to move cash in the bank into the endowment. For years we chose to keep most of it liquid so we had more flexibility in how we spent the money. But now that we are nearly complete on a $1B renovation of campus over the past couple of years, we are moving more of the funds to longterm investments through endowment. It was the natural progression.

As for our academic standing, we have plenty of room for improvement. But part of the emphasis on spending has moved to developing our existing in newer programs like engineering and medical. Our turnover rate has always been high. Our school culture and rules are clearly not for everyone. Some folks don't recognize that until they have been on campus for a semester or two. We are working to improve those numbers and have risen in academic rankings the past few years as a result. We know we have plenty more work to do.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2017 04:30 PM by SlyFox.)
05-17-2017 04:29 PM
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Post: #34
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 04:29 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  Part of the big jump was us choosing to move cash in the bank into the endowment. For years we chose to keep most of it liquid so we had more flexibility in how we spent the money. But now that we are nearly complete on a $1B renovation of campus over the past couple of years, we are moving more of the funds to longterm investments through endowment. It was the natural progression.

They kept $927 million in a savings account? The CFO should be fired on the spot.

Endowments earn 4% right now. A big part of endowments are typically in treasury bills or low-risk stocks, which are pretty liquid anyways. In a worst-case scenario if they ran out of cash and couldn't sell the treasuries, they could easily get a 1-year loan against the endowment.

If they really kept it in a bank, they gave up nearly $40 million in extra revenue for no reason.
05-17-2017 05:47 PM
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Old Blue Offline
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Post: #35
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
You know what's scary. Imagine the yearly salary Liberty is going to be able to pay coaches. They will be able to hire the cream of the crop. I don't blame the Sunbelt for turning them down. Honestly who is going to be able to compete with them in 10 years? No one from G5, that's for sure. Their only drawback is being a Christian university they're limited to the type of athletes they can recruit. Or at least I hope so.
05-17-2017 06:38 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 05:47 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 04:29 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  Part of the big jump was us choosing to move cash in the bank into the endowment. For years we chose to keep most of it liquid so we had more flexibility in how we spent the money. But now that we are nearly complete on a $1B renovation of campus over the past couple of years, we are moving more of the funds to longterm investments through endowment. It was the natural progression.

They kept $927 million in a savings account? The CFO should be fired on the spot.

Endowments earn 4% right now. A big part of endowments are typically in treasury bills or low-risk stocks, which are pretty liquid anyways. In a worst-case scenario if they ran out of cash and couldn't sell the treasuries, they could easily get a 1-year loan against the endowment.

If they really kept it in a bank, they gave up nearly $40 million in extra revenue for no reason.

There is no way they kept $927 million in the bank account. They are smart business people who would invest such a large amount to make it larger. I'm poor and I know that.
05-17-2017 08:40 PM
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Rabonchild Offline
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Post: #37
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 05:47 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 04:29 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  Part of the big jump was us choosing to move cash in the bank into the endowment. For years we chose to keep most of it liquid so we had more flexibility in how we spent the money. But now that we are nearly complete on a $1B renovation of campus over the past couple of years, we are moving more of the funds to longterm investments through endowment. It was the natural progression.

They kept $927 million in a savings account? The CFO should be fired on the spot.

Endowments earn 4% right now. A big part of endowments are typically in treasury bills or low-risk stocks, which are pretty liquid anyways. In a worst-case scenario if they ran out of cash and couldn't sell the treasuries, they could easily get a 1-year loan against the endowment.

If they really kept it in a bank, they gave up nearly $40 million in extra revenue for no reason.

They have so much money it would coast them mote in time to pick up the phone to call the bank to transfer it than just leave it where it's at.
05-17-2017 08:47 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #38
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-17-2017 08:47 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 05:47 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 04:29 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  Part of the big jump was us choosing to move cash in the bank into the endowment. For years we chose to keep most of it liquid so we had more flexibility in how we spent the money. But now that we are nearly complete on a $1B renovation of campus over the past couple of years, we are moving more of the funds to longterm investments through endowment. It was the natural progression.

They kept $927 million in a savings account? The CFO should be fired on the spot.

Endowments earn 4% right now. A big part of endowments are typically in treasury bills or low-risk stocks, which are pretty liquid anyways. In a worst-case scenario if they ran out of cash and couldn't sell the treasuries, they could easily get a 1-year loan against the endowment.

If they really kept it in a bank, they gave up nearly $40 million in extra revenue for no reason.

They have so much money it would coast them mote in time to pick up the phone to call the bank to transfer it than just leave it where it's at.

It works the other way.

The more money you have earning a low interest rate, the more it costs you to not move it.
05-17-2017 09:13 PM
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Post: #39
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
I want to clarify, endowments can very much invest money in liquid assets (like cash in a bank account).

They usually don't because they can generally take advantage of their long horizon and invest in illiquid assets, which have historically given above average risk-weighted returns because not everyone can invest in them, so there's a supply/demand imbalance (see "Yale method")

However, that higher return is far less true today than in the past.

[EDIT: The Yale model involves a couple factors, but I'm pretty sure one of them involved investing in illiquidity]
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2017 09:23 PM by nzmorange.)
05-17-2017 09:16 PM
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Post: #40
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.
05-18-2017 07:35 AM
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