...... so all the dumb hub-bub about a special election, vetoing money in the budget for a special election, and slashing funding for council members .... just so that next week the council could decide simply to accept FSI's proposal without a vote???

Granted, the special election stuff seemed more to be about a new tax to fund expanding the SDCC. Fair enough.


Still hoping someone can answer the question: if the agreement between the city and FSI allows for not landing a MLS franchise (which makes sense, as it would not be a given), would it also allow FSI to get out of building the stadium entirely???

(06-13-2017 09:01 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  ...... so all the dumb hub-bub about a special election, vetoing money in the budget for a special election, and slashing funding for council members .... just so that next week the council could decide simply to accept FSI's proposal without a vote???

Granted, the special election stuff seemed more to be about a new tax to fund expanding the SDCC. Fair enough.


Still hoping someone can answer the question: if the agreement between the city and FSI allows for not landing a MLS franchise (which makes sense, as it would not be a given), would it also allow FSI to get out of building the stadium entirely???

If the FS proposal passes and they do not land an MLS franchise, they still have rights to the land. They have publicly said the deal is dead without an MLS franchise, but the initiative as written allows them to keep the land to develop if no franchise is awarded.

Good grief ... does that not mean that whole deal could just be a ploy by FSI to get great land at a really cheap price, then "somehow" (wink wink) not land the MLS franchise, not have to build the stadium, and just build more retail and market-rate housing where the stadium would have gone???


Kill this deal!

(05-16-2017 06:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What on earth are they doing? They are going to end up beating out UMass for the longest distance from campus to their "home" stadium.

All games back in Amherst this year except one at Fenway Park.

(06-13-2017 10:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Good grief ... does that not mean that whole deal could just be a ploy by FSI to get great land at a really cheap price, then "somehow" (wink wink) not land the MLS franchise, not have to build the stadium, and just build more retail and market-rate housing where the stadium would have gone???


Kill this deal!

Finally, you understand what is actually going on.

This is why I think there is zero chance a MLS franchise is coming to San Diego. Why would FS1 want to pay $200M to MLS? It's an unnecessary fee for the development of a Condo City on public land worth $1.5B they don't have to pay for.

I hope San Diego St can get a stadium deal in place with 40,000 seats that can offer them a permanent home. The NFL vacuum offers huge opportunities for the Aztecs.

It sounds like the soccer folks weren't very serious about making the Aztecs am equal partner in this venture.

(06-13-2017 02:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 10:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Good grief ... does that not mean that whole deal could just be a ploy by FSI to get great land at a really cheap price, then "somehow" (wink wink) not land the MLS franchise, not have to build the stadium, and just build more retail and market-rate housing where the stadium would have gone???


Kill this deal!

Finally, you understand what is actually going on.

This is why I think there is zero chance a MLS franchise is coming to San Diego. Why would FS1 want to pay $200M to MLS? It's an unnecessary fee for the development of a Condo City on public land worth $1.5B they don't have to pay for.

A third party appraised the Qualcomm site at $82M.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/35648253/under...site-worth

Plus, there's still the cost of demolishing the stadium and making a portion of the site above the water table.

(06-13-2017 02:26 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(05-16-2017 06:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What on earth are they doing? They are going to end up beating out UMass for the longest distance from campus to their "home" stadium.

All games back in Amherst this year except one at Fenway Park.

What improvements made to McGuirk so far?

That estimate is based on current zoning. FSI is Ok with that because it's still way under market value.

But change the zoning to commercial or residential and that number skyrockets. 1/4 acre is worth at a minimum $500K in San Diego (that is for single detached houses selling under $1M), thus 191 acres would come to $382M at a minimum for residential. If it is closer to La Jolla values then you are talking $800M at a minimum for the land. Commercial is worth even more.

No question if you open it to bidding that $82M + $29M set aside would treble at a minimum.

(06-13-2017 05:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I hope San Diego St can get a stadium deal in place with 40,000 seats that can offer them a permanent home. The NFL vacuum offers huge opportunities for the Aztecs.

It sounds like the soccer folks weren't very serious about making the Aztecs am equal partner in this venture.

Unless the Pac-12 is inviting them, I doubt SDSU will see a major jump from the Chargers leaving, especially with them still being right up the road. They may get a bump of 2-3K fans.

The NFL fan is a different kind of animal.

(06-13-2017 07:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 02:26 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(05-16-2017 06:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What on earth are they doing? They are going to end up beating out UMass for the longest distance from campus to their "home" stadium.

All games back in Amherst this year except one at Fenway Park.

What improvements made to McGuirk so far?

Some paint on the concrete. That's about it.

Lots of problems with "if we touch it then we have to change everything for ADA". So just some minor temporary upgrades would be too expensive to be worth it. Saving up for the big renovation down the line, which includes a second deck and suites on the East side of the stadium. Need to find some money first and UMass is currently getting heat for all the construction/spending we did on academic buildings in the last 10 years.

If I win Powerball soon we won't have to worry about anything.

(06-14-2017 07:20 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 07:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 02:26 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(05-16-2017 06:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What on earth are they doing? They are going to end up beating out UMass for the longest distance from campus to their "home" stadium.

All games back in Amherst this year except one at Fenway Park.

What improvements made to McGuirk so far?

Some paint on the concrete. That's about it.

Lots of problems with "if we touch it then we have to change everything for ADA". So just some minor temporary upgrades would be too expensive to be worth it. Saving up for the big renovation down the line, which includes a second deck and suites on the East side of the stadium. Need to find some money first and UMass is currently getting heat for all the construction/spending we did on academic buildings in the last 10 years.

If I win Powerball soon we won't have to worry about anything.

How can you get heat for academic buildings?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(06-14-2017 07:29 AM)panama Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:20 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 07:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 02:26 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(05-16-2017 06:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What on earth are they doing? They are going to end up beating out UMass for the longest distance from campus to their "home" stadium.

All games back in Amherst this year except one at Fenway Park.

What improvements made to McGuirk so far?

Some paint on the concrete. That's about it.

Lots of problems with "if we touch it then we have to change everything for ADA". So just some minor temporary upgrades would be too expensive to be worth it. Saving up for the big renovation down the line, which includes a second deck and suites on the East side of the stadium. Need to find some money first and UMass is currently getting heat for all the construction/spending we did on academic buildings in the last 10 years.

If I win Powerball soon we won't have to worry about anything.

How can you get heat for academic buildings?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Excessive debt. $3B worth. Deferred maintenance is now at $3.3B too.

Debt which the current out of state tuition fails to cover.

http://news.wgbh.org/2017/04/20/local-ne...side-story

(06-13-2017 08:10 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 07:23 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 02:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 10:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Good grief ... does that not mean that whole deal could just be a ploy by FSI to get great land at a really cheap price, then "somehow" (wink wink) not land the MLS franchise, not have to build the stadium, and just build more retail and market-rate housing where the stadium would have gone???


Kill this deal!

Finally, you understand what is actually going on.

This is why I think there is zero chance a MLS franchise is coming to San Diego. Why would FS1 want to pay $200M to MLS? It's an unnecessary fee for the development of a Condo City on public land worth $1.5B they don't have to pay for.

A third party appraised the Qualcomm site at $82M.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/35648253/under...site-worth

Plus, there's still the cost of demolishing the stadium and making a portion of the site above the water table.

That estimate is based on current zoning. FSI is Ok with that because it's still way under market value.

But change the zoning to commercial or residential and that number skyrockets. 1/4 acre is worth at a minimum $500K in San Diego (that is for single detached houses selling under $1M), thus 191 acres would come to $382M at a minimum for residential. If it is closer to La Jolla values then you are talking $800M at a minimum for the land. Commercial is worth even more.

No question if you open it to bidding that $82M + $29M set aside would treble at a minimum.

This.

Land value in California is based on zoning. In most of the rest of the country it's relatively easy to change the zoning if the market will support it, but in CA it's practically impossible. Only someone with the connections to sign a megadeal directly with City Council can upgrade the zoning.

This is what happens when you give government all the power. Instead of the free market deciding value (and bankrupting those who overpay), you have politicians deciding who gets rich. So the wealthy and connected get even wealthier, with no risk of a young upstart overtaking them based on merit.

(06-14-2017 09:26 AM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:29 AM)panama Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:20 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 07:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 02:26 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  All games back in Amherst this year except one at Fenway Park.

What improvements made to McGuirk so far?

Some paint on the concrete. That's about it.

Lots of problems with "if we touch it then we have to change everything for ADA". So just some minor temporary upgrades would be too expensive to be worth it. Saving up for the big renovation down the line, which includes a second deck and suites on the East side of the stadium. Need to find some money first and UMass is currently getting heat for all the construction/spending we did on academic buildings in the last 10 years.

If I win Powerball soon we won't have to worry about anything.

How can you get heat for academic buildings?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Excessive debt. $3B worth. Deferred maintenance is now at $3.3B too.

Debt which the current out of state tuition fails to cover.

http://news.wgbh.org/2017/04/20/local-ne...side-story

Thats UMass Boston. I dont think thats the same as UMass Amhurst where McGirk stands.

Can you guys please take the UMass talk to a UMass thread, thanks

(06-14-2017 09:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 09:26 AM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:29 AM)panama Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:20 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 07:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  What improvements made to McGuirk so far?

Some paint on the concrete. That's about it.

Lots of problems with "if we touch it then we have to change everything for ADA". So just some minor temporary upgrades would be too expensive to be worth it. Saving up for the big renovation down the line, which includes a second deck and suites on the East side of the stadium. Need to find some money first and UMass is currently getting heat for all the construction/spending we did on academic buildings in the last 10 years.

If I win Powerball soon we won't have to worry about anything.

How can you get heat for academic buildings?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Excessive debt. $3B worth. Deferred maintenance is now at $3.3B too.

Debt which the current out of state tuition fails to cover.

http://news.wgbh.org/2017/04/20/local-ne...side-story

Thats UMass Boston. I dont think thats the same as UMass Amhurst where McGirk stands.

The UMass system has a central building authority which floated the bonds on all of the current construction. Originally, the UMBA (UMass Building Authority) was to construct auxiliary buildings on campus, like residence halls, parking garages, rec centers and student unions. However, their mission was expanded to academic buildings, laboratories, athletic facilities, heating plants, and other facilities not funded by student fees/charges AND without legislative approval.

http://pioneerinstitute.org/download/uma...stainable/

With that, we can continue with criticizing FS Investors, the San Diego city council, and not so much SDSU, their lack of leadership and their relationship with "Papa" Doug Manchester and the former city manager who encouraged them to oppose FS Investors.

(06-14-2017 12:25 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 09:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 09:26 AM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:29 AM)panama Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 07:20 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  Some paint on the concrete. That's about it.

Lots of problems with "if we touch it then we have to change everything for ADA". So just some minor temporary upgrades would be too expensive to be worth it. Saving up for the big renovation down the line, which includes a second deck and suites on the East side of the stadium. Need to find some money first and UMass is currently getting heat for all the construction/spending we did on academic buildings in the last 10 years.

If I win Powerball soon we won't have to worry about anything.

How can you get heat for academic buildings?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Excessive debt. $3B worth. Deferred maintenance is now at $3.3B too.

Debt which the current out of state tuition fails to cover.

http://news.wgbh.org/2017/04/20/local-ne...side-story

Thats UMass Boston. I dont think thats the same as UMass Amhurst where McGirk stands.

The UMass system has a central building authority which floated the bonds on all of the current construction. Originally, the UMBA (UMass Building Authority) was to construct auxiliary buildings on campus, like residence halls, parking garages, rec centers and student unions. However, their mission was expanded to academic buildings, laboratories, athletic facilities, heating plants, and other facilities not funded by student fees/charges AND without legislative approval.

http://pioneerinstitute.org/download/uma...stainable/

With that, we can continue with criticizing FS Investors, the San Diego city council, and not so much SDSU, their lack of leadership and their relationship with "Papa" Doug Manchester and the former city manager who encouraged them to oppose FS Investors.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but need to add that the Pioneer Institute that you cite is a right wing think-tank and private school supporter that's mission is to criticize UMass and public education in general. So take what they write with a gigantic grain of salt. Bashing UMass is how they make money.

SDSU seriously inflates attendance numbers, (as does virtually everyone else), so a 30K soccer stadium may be adequate.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Records obtained from the city of San Diego showing actual attendance figures for San Diego State football games over the past seven seasons indicate a venue about the size of what is being proposed for Mission Valley would have been adequate for most Aztecs games.

According to the city, SDSU averaged 25,617 fans through the turnstile for its six games last season at Qualcomm Stadium, well short of the 37,289 announced attendance that is generally cited as the team’s average.

The highest actual average attendance for SDSU football over the past seven seasons was 28,274 in 2011, and the team has drawn crowds of more than 30,000 to exactly one-fourth of the 44 home games it has played in that time.

Of the 11 games in the last seven years that drew more than 30,000, three exceeded 40,000. In that span, SDSU drew fewer than 20,000 a total of 21 times.

(06-14-2017 12:40 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  SDSU seriously inflates attendance numbers, (as does virtually everyone else), so a 30K soccer stadium may be adequate.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Records obtained from the city of San Diego showing actual attendance figures for San Diego State football games over the past seven seasons indicate a venue about the size of what is being proposed for Mission Valley would have been adequate for most Aztecs games.

According to the city, SDSU averaged 25,617 fans through the turnstile for its six games last season at Qualcomm Stadium, well short of the 37,289 announced attendance that is generally cited as the team’s average.

The highest actual average attendance for SDSU football over the past seven seasons was 28,274 in 2011, and the team has drawn crowds of more than 30,000 to exactly one-fourth of the 44 home games it has played in that time.

Of the 11 games in the last seven years that drew more than 30,000, three exceeded 40,000. In that span, SDSU drew fewer than 20,000 a total of 21 times.

You can't get a P5 to come visit you in a 30k stadium.